[HN Gopher] Something special is happening in Barcelona
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Something special is happening in Barcelona
Author : reallydontask
Score : 164 points
Date : 2021-10-23 18:00 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (twitter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
| alkonaut wrote:
| This is very clever. I could imagine this makes drivers pick
| other times to drive eventually so once this is common enough,
| then at certain times there would be very little traffic. If
| cities were effectively car-free for just 30 minutes in the
| morning that could make a huge difference in the number of people
| riding bikes.
| Tomte wrote:
| Some towns in Germany have this concept for students walking to
| their schools. There are even improvised bus stop signs at the
| side of the road.
| dgellow wrote:
| We called this Pedibus in my Swiss hometown when I was a kid in
| the 90s and 00s. We had signs where kids could wait for the
| "walking bus", a group of kids going to school together, often
| lead by an adult.
|
| Edit: that's still a thing! https://pedibus.ch/
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| This is a surprisingly clever idea. (Or maybe I am not clever
| enough to come up with stuff like this.)
|
| As explained the followup tweets: By extending the route to cover
| multiple schools, with fixed arrival times at each destination,
| people can join and leave the "bike bus" as it passes through.
| Even regular business commuters are joining the bike bus.
|
| I love it.
| Aachen wrote:
| "Something special" oooh, how mysteriously... enticing...
| clickbait... Does someone who clicked want to suggest a better
| title for OP?
| smegcicle wrote:
| I was hoping something to do with the catalonian secession
| movement, but it's just.. kids riding bikes?
| curiousgal wrote:
| That's a great way to engrain cycling in them. Hopefully they
| grow up to be good cyclists though, as a pedestrian currently
| living in Paris, urban cyclists suck.
| Anthony-G wrote:
| We've also had similar "cycle buses" for school children in Irish
| cities for the past few years:
| https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0901/1162590-school-cycle-bus-l...
| yawaworht1978 wrote:
| I used to live in Barcelona, the infrastructure is definitely
| anti car in every aspect, it's desired to be. For such a large
| city, the car traffic is minimal, there are not enough parking
| opportunities, especially at the beach. There would be space, but
| the government knows better, if you have ever been in a tourist
| destination in Spain during peak season you will know that there
| is no way to accommodate all the cars. The only traffic jams
| you'll encounter is if an accident happened or if you go from
| Barcelona outwards toward the airport, when commuters go home on
| Friday afternoons or evening when headed to the nicer , less
| crowded beaches in the south. But absolutely nothing compared to
| London, I have lived there as well and driven a car. It's the
| city with the worst traffic jams you can imagine, it starts at
| 7am and never really ends, after 8pm it's quite calm and deserted
| one weekdays. But weekends, if you wanna go from the south east
| to the north, God help you. It's very bicycle friendly, own parts
| of the roads, unobstructed by cars. Taxis have a separate lane,
| and buses as well. The public transportation is also very good,
| affordable, you have buses, underground trains, and well,
| overground trains. And it's a nice city to walk, the old part of
| town, the huge parks, really nice.
|
| A role model implementation as far reducing car traffic issues
| go. Many people use these electro kind skateboards(forgot name)
| and scooters. And many people just walk. Of course , it needs to
| be mentioned that Barcelona is not built like American suburb
| areas, it's all apartment blocks of 3-7 stories, all blocks glued
| together. It's tight, they even have a convention on how to dry
| your clothes on balconies and how not to do it. Barcelona has
| many other issues, the typical ones for large cities, but
| transport and car traffic, I haven't seen better in Europe.
| Darmody wrote:
| It has a good public transport system, yes, but ironically it's
| the only city where I felt kind of insecure in the subway.
| Always making sure nobody is going to pickpocket me or I don't
| look the wrong way at some guy looking for trouble.
|
| A friend of mine works there as security and after all the
| stories he told me I rather get in a car and deal with the
| traffic.
|
| And I'm saying this as someone who uses the subway to commute
| but in a safer city. I literally get in, close my eyes and open
| them after 20 minutes.
| agumonkey wrote:
| how did people react to reduction of cars ? in many places
| every step toward reduction of car use is met with a lot of
| rants if not anger.
| qgadrian wrote:
| People who live in the city live it, people (specially rich
| people) who drives from outside the city hate it.
| 908B64B197 wrote:
| The problem is a bunch of place introduce traffic limitations
| or some congestion tax...
|
| But then do nothing else! You have to find an alternative for
| people to not take their car (closer grocery shop for
| instance).
|
| Meanwhile the money goes to some pension fund for
| underperforming, unionized municipal workers...
| agumonkey wrote:
| I see, it's not smarter than here.
| rektide wrote:
| once again just really really wish there were p2p ways to connect
| & send data about.
|
| i imagine the phones on the bike bus advertising who they are,
| what their schedule is, who can join, how to join, and letting
| folks about know what the route is, what disruption to expect,
| how to plan around this happening.
|
| hoping on the bandwagon is enough to make this happen in some
| places but i think the core kernel idea could use some
| shareability & amplifiability in other places. a more
| reductionist expression is simply that the real world lacks
| virality potential. projects like Google's Eddystone[1]/Project
| Lighthouse (2015) are few & far between, underfunded & in
| Eddystone's case seemingly abandoned, but embuing reality with
| more of the neat connective capabilities of the computerized
| info-verse remains- i think- a key enabler.
|
| [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddystone_(Google)
| frereubu wrote:
| I had an idea similar to this, based on my experience of Critical
| Mass cycle rides in London:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass_(cycling)
|
| It was called "Cycle Pods", which would be mini-critical mass
| rides for commuters. You'd probably need between five and ten
| riders who cycle the same route each day at a roughly similar
| pace, so you could register with a route and see whose rides were
| similar to yours.
|
| The other idea was even more loose, where you'd wear something
| like a tabard with an identifiable "cycle pods" logo where anyone
| who was wearing one was effectively advertising that they were
| open to riding with other people. I preferred this version
| because it's simpler and decentralised. Anyone could make
| something with the logo on it, so no purchase or registration
| needed.
|
| I love the idea of doing it with kids, but honestly some of the
| reactions we got from car and van drivers with the Critical Mass
| rides, even when we were going at a decent pace, were incredibly
| dangerous, and I'd worry about that with kids unless the police
| were involved, as they were in this Bicibus. We had to have
| outriders looking out for car drivers who'd try to drive into the
| middle of the mass. There's something about cyclists taking over
| the road that really provokes some drivers.
| agumonkey wrote:
| damn I thinking about this for a while and found nothing,
| you're the first with links toward prior history. Super
| interesting.
| yokaze wrote:
| If you read this, or other things about reducing car traffic in
| Barcelona, one should keep the following in mind:
| https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/lafabricadelsol/en/noticia/...
|
| 6000cars/km2 in Barcelona.
|
| San Francisco/Oakland metropolitan area has 4000/sq mi...
| 1540/km2
|
| Guttenberg, NJ has the highest in the US with 20,600/sq mi
| (8000/km2)
|
| Source:
| https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.planetizen.com/node/45622%3...
| mastax wrote:
| Barcelona has a population density of 16,000/km2, while the
| city of San Francisco has a density of 2,419/km2.
| kaladin-jasnah wrote:
| De-AMPed link: https://www.planetizen.com/node/45622
| vanilla_nut wrote:
| Thank you. Some of us forced to use neutered browsers on iOS
| really appreciate this.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I live there too, and traffic here is pretty busy. Personally I
| don't really understand why so many people drive. Because public
| transport here is extremely efficient and cheap. I don't even own
| a car here and I'm really happy to no longer need one.
|
| But if I had kids I wouldn't really let them participate. Even
| with the police escort, they might lose the group and be on their
| own in this busy city.
|
| I'm from near Amsterdam myself and there cyclists are the kinds
| of the road. Here it's very different.
|
| The mayor is very green and she's trying to pedestrianise a lot,
| but it's limited to a few lane closures and a handful of
| "superilla" test blocks. I think there is a lot of resistance to
| it. I really support her efforts but sadly she doesn't seem to be
| that popular. She also tried to clean up an area near the
| seafront with seedy nightclubs and casinos but got a lot of flak
| for that. I often see graffiti blaming her for stuff :(
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| > _But if I had kids I wouldn 't really let them participate.
| Even with the police escort, they might lose the group and be
| on their own in this busy city._
|
| At what age would you be comfortable with them biking on their
| own?
| permalac wrote:
| Being in power thanks to Manuel Valls, who was running for a
| reactionary far right party, did not help on her reputation.
|
| Also, she is leading the highest amount of council driven
| evictions, which does not help either. (for context she reached
| office on her first time thanks to the anti eviction
| associations.)
|
| She is green, yes.
|
| But she is over promising and under delivering.
| reducesuffering wrote:
| Reminds of the rideouts happening all over US cities. If only
| they would just clamp down on swerving cars.
|
| https://youtu.be/-1mmAdy3D8o?t=254
| Fargren wrote:
| Reminds me of Masa Critica in Buenos Aires, a monthly event where
| lots (probably around a hundred, maybe two?) of bikers would
| pedal from the city center to the outskirts, to show support for
| the rights of people using bicycles.
| SkeuomorphicBee wrote:
| It also reminded me of Massa Critica here in Porto Alegre
| (Brazil). Unfortunately it also reminded me of the time a
| driver here purposefully plowed thru the whole peloton of
| cyclists, injuring dozens.
| pjc50 wrote:
| Similarly "critical mass" protests in London, which were in
| endless trouble with the police.
| https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/nov/26/critical-mass-lon...
|
| Having children do it does decrease the chance of being broken
| up for obstructing cars.
| Fargren wrote:
| Oh, same name so these are almost certainly related. I didn't
| know about that.
| timeon wrote:
| "critical mass" is monthly event in many cities.
| throwawaysea wrote:
| Critical mass events are incredibly disruptive and are an
| offensively aggressive act to those who are just trying to go
| about their day and use the infrastructure for its funded
| intent - which is to say, cars and other motorized vehicles
| that move at higher speeds. It's one thing to advocate for
| changes through proper political channels. It's another thing
| entirely to hijack infrastructure, clog intersections by
| circling up, and violently harass drivers (what I've seen in
| SF). That's not a protest, but a riot, and participants should
| be arrested and charged.
| carapace wrote:
| You're being little hyperbolic (in re: SF Critical Mass) but
| not by much. I live in SF, don't drive, and I used to commute
| by bike, but IMO the advocacy here can get a little, um,
| _intense_.
| SkeuomorphicBee wrote:
| That is a very clueless take. Cars disruptively and
| offensively aggressively hijack that infrastructure every
| single day, then cyclists claim back one single road for only
| two hours a month and you claim they are the disruptive ones?
| They are not clogging intersections, they are using them.
|
| The intent of the infrastructure is to move people, cars and
| other motorized vehicles hijacked it and excluded other
| users.
|
| And to claim that cyclists are violent towards drivers is the
| pinnacle of absurdity. Drivers using their 2 tonne heavy
| machinery as a weapon, driving towards people, and then you
| blame the victims for tapping on the bonnet of the aggressors
| weapon.
| frereubu wrote:
| I participated in London, and saw mostly the opposite. Most
| of the ride was well-behaved and didn't hold people up much,
| and there were drivers constantly behaving in really
| dangerous ways, like trying to drive into the mass. Like you
| and someone else who replied to you, I was uncomfortable with
| the deliberate blocking of intersections, but "participants
| should be arrested and charged" is way over the top for what
| used to happen in London - perhaps SF had a different vibe.
| ardit33 wrote:
| Yeah, it started devolving into vandalism / hatred towards
| cars:
|
| Critical Mass cyclist attacks car with U-lock in San
| Francisco https://www.kron4.com/news/critical-mass-cyclist-
| attacks-car...
|
| Minivan's rude introduction to Critical Smash
| https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-
| ross/article/Minivan-s...
|
| A Toyota mini van sits in a repair shop in Mountain View
| with a broken back window and numerous scratches to the
| body. The van was attacked by critical mass riders last
| friday. At the time of the attack a woman and five kids
| were in the car.
| lostdog wrote:
| You found one event from 2007 where the driver didn't
| exercise control of their vehicle "According to police,
| Ferrando had allegedly tapped one of the cyclists'
| tires."
|
| And one from 2015 where the driver endangered the
| cyclists "then a driver of a Zipcar moves toward the
| cyclists."
| pedalpete wrote:
| This is why I stopped attending, and I think it harmed the
| effectiveness of the movement.
|
| In Vancouver, we were having a great ride through the city.
| We may have been delaying traffic a bit, but that's fine.
| Then they decided to ride up the Lions Gate Bridge (the main
| artery in and out of the city) and stop all traffic going in
| both directions for about 10-15 minutes.
|
| The friends I was with all agreed we wouldn't participate
| again because of those actions.
| bodo11 wrote:
| In Europe (mainly Germany ATM) there has been a wordplay on
| this for a few years, the "kidical mass" movement:
|
| https://kinderaufsrad.org/
| throwaway2016a wrote:
| This is great.
|
| I wish I lived in a more bike friendly area. Here that would
| result in people being honked at and cars impatiently passing
| them at high speeds.
| throwawaysea wrote:
| This would be incredibly frustrating to me as a car driver. I
| don't think having shared roads for a vocal minority of bikers
| makes sense. It basically slows down everyone to bike speed,
| which I realize is the unspoken strategy of bike activists, and
| it is also why I am against supporting bike-friendly policies in
| their current form. It makes more sense to have cities build
| raised biking/walking lanes outside of the traffic (on pillars).
| Why aren't cities exploring such strategies to accommodate those
| who like the fast point to point benefits of cars alongside those
| who are OK taking it slow or going out for a bike ride?
| AlotOfReading wrote:
| Have you ever spent time in BCN? Unless you're way out in the
| suburbs of Badalona, there's very little reason to use a car
| for commuting. Secondly, raised lanes are horrendously
| expensive, ugly, and reduce street level light. Any city where
| they're the default is going to be a city where bike
| infrastructure effectively doesn't exist.
|
| Cities should serve people, not cars.
| throwawaysea wrote:
| I have spent a lot of time in Barcelona, and love the city,
| although I've only had short stays (~weeks) and haven't
| resided there in the traditional sense. I think increasing
| car hostility makes it less hospitable and accessible to many
| people away from the core. There's also a tradeoff which
| isn't being acknowledged here. A city that manages its
| density appropriately will have faster travel times via cars
| compared to public transit or biking (BCN may be past this
| inflection point). You can see this in cities like Seattle -
| it's not even a close comparison, as driving is at least
| twice as fast as any alternate mode. That time saved is very
| valuable, and necessary for anyone who wants to live a rich,
| fulfilled lifestyle with room for activities, families, and
| friends.
|
| > Secondly, raised lanes are horrendously expensive, ugly,
| and reduce street level light.
|
| Having bikes in roads is expensive too. It costs everyone
| time, which is money. Ugly is subjective. And as for street
| level light - maybe. That depends on the exact parameters
| like road width. On a wider arterial road a raised greenway
| on pillars wouldn't cast a shadow on the street level
| sidewalks. Chicago has an elevated rail system for example,
| and it doesn't cause streets to feel dark.
|
| > Cities should serve people, not cars.
|
| Respectfully, this is an empty slogan. You could just as well
| say "cities should serve people, not bikes". Cities serve
| people better by accommodating cars. People are who chose to
| raise taxes and spend money on roads for cars.
| AlotOfReading wrote:
| Are you suggesting Seattle has a better commute situation
| than Barcelona? Respectfully, that's insane. Moreover,
| large parts of the city were designed prior to motorized
| vehicles and encourage frequent mode mixing. High speed is
| simply not on the table for discussion. The choice is
| between low speed, low density car traffic, or mixed mode.
| The latter is clearly much better for neighborhoods and the
| city as a whole.
| mejutoco wrote:
| > A city that manages its density appropriately will have
| faster travel times via cars compared to public transit or
| biking
|
| This seems like nonsense. Surely public transport has more
| capacity than cars, or at least it is not guaranteed that
| cars have more.
| analog31 wrote:
| I'm an urban cyclist. I get around town by bike whenever I can,
| though my family does still own cars for longer trips or moving
| large objects. I certainly don't try to slow everybody down.
| Getting into the main traffic lane has that effect, but it's a
| side effect, and I don't do it very often or for very long. In
| most cases, I could probably make a safe bet that dipping into
| the traffic lane isn't slowing down anybody's actual travel
| time by any appreciable amount.
|
| But I greatly prefer to choose routes that avoid fast,
| congested car traffic. This also appears to be the approach of
| my city when developing new or improved roadways.
|
| But truth be told, the major thing slowing cars down is other
| cars. Trying to increase traffic flow through a given area will
| eventually cause it to slow down to a crawl, bikes or no bikes.
| edwinjm wrote:
| The bikers are a minority because the roads are dominated by
| cards. If you want to change that, you have to start somewhere.
|
| Is it possible? Yes. Please come to the Netherlands and see for
| yourself.
|
| Or watch the video's on this channel:
| https://www.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes
| Muromec wrote:
| >Why aren't cities exploring such strategies to accommodate
| those who like the fast point to point benefits of cars
| alongside those who are OK taking it slow or going out for a
| bike ride?
|
| Because everybody wants to get from point to point fastest and
| safest way possible and doing it by car is not the answer which
| scales.
| SantalBlush wrote:
| I don't own or use a bike, I am a car driver. Personal cars are
| absurdly inefficient on many levels. They take up precious
| urban space (roads and parking lots), they injure and kill
| people, they are extremely expensive, they are a major source
| of pollution.... Every time I've been stuck in five lanes of
| gridlock I've thought to myself, "This is one of the dumbest
| infrastructure issues that modern humans have to put up with."
| Bikes and public transportation just make way more sense in
| urban areas on so many levels, it's not even close. Cars are a
| blight on the urban landscape. The only reason I drive one
| daily is because our infrastructure leaves me no other choice.
| It sucks.
| yodsanklai wrote:
| Car pollute, are extremely dangerous to other road users, and
| take a lot of space on the road. Cars in city should be the
| exception, not the rule.
| throwawaysea wrote:
| > pollute
|
| I consider the level of pollution to be minimal. It's not
| even noticeable in many US cities. Plus this is also always
| improving, particularly with increasing popularity of hybrids
| and electric cars.
|
| > extremely dangerous to other road user
|
| First off, "extremely dangerous" is hyperbole. The number of
| fatalities on roads is very low, and it will keep getting
| lower as safety features like blind spot monitoring become
| standards. Roads are already incredibly safe - in the US the
| fatality rate is something like 1 per 100 million vehicle
| miles.
|
| But safety is also why roads should be reserved for motorized
| vehicles. Your assertion also seems very one sided. Safety is
| a two way thing - a substantial portion of bikers put
| themselves in danger by riding where they really shouldn't.
|
| > take a lot of space on the road
|
| They also provide a lot of utility, which is why taxpayers
| funded roads and parking spaces to begin with. I, and I
| suspect most people, don't mind using space for things that
| are high value, like cars.
| jon_n wrote:
| > I consider the level of pollution to be minimal. It's not
| even noticeable in many US cities.
|
| Transport is one of the highest contributors to greenhouse
| gases in the US with light vehicles being the largest
| contributor to that sector
| https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P10127TU.pdf
|
| >The number of fatalities on roads is very low,
|
| Road traffic crashes are a leading cause of death in the
| United States for people aged 1-54
| https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/global-road-
| safety/index...
|
| > and it will keep getting lower as safety features like
| blind spot monitoring become standards.
|
| The rate has been pretty stagnant for the last 10 years htt
| ps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in..
| .
|
| > the US the fatality rate is something like 1 per 100
| million vehicle miles.
|
| This is true, but this number needs context. Average US
| driver covers 13k a year * by a lifetime of driving your
| over 1/2 a million miles per person, so the number you
| should be presenting is 1 in 200 chance to die. And thats
| just fatalities, when you consdier serious injury as well,
| the number isn't great.
|
| > I suspect most people, don't mind using space for things
| that are high value, like cars.
|
| Was with you until "like cars". Cars waste a lot of space.
| They take up space in city centres, parked, while you're
| working/shopping, when you're actually in them they're
| still using a lot of space for typically one person. I
| think we'll see a lot more of this in the coming decades:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeway_removal
| maccolgan wrote:
| >take a lot of space on the road
|
| That's the point, cars deliver a lot of personal space &
| comfort that really make it attractive vis a vis public
| transport.
| whazor wrote:
| Agreed on the shared roads, but in cities it is better to put
| the cars on pillars. Removing cars from roads does wonders and
| makes neighborhoods look much nicer. Instead of the pillars you
| can remove cars from most roads and have limited one-way roads
| that are fast and without traffic lights. The cars can park in
| a parking garage and continue on foot/bike/tram. I believe this
| is faster for the cars as well.
| desas wrote:
| Most bike activists don't have an unspoken strategy of slowing
| people down. They want to be able to use their bike to get
| places safely and quickly and they want others to feel able to
| do that too.
|
| It doesn't make sense to create biking / walking lanes raised
| up on pillars because a) that introduces artificial hills and
| b) it increases effort to get places - you'll only be able to
| get on or off the raised system at a ramp, which might be
| inconvenient.
|
| In London the average car speed is 11-12 mph, and then you'll
| have to walk to / from a car park. Cars aren't always fast and
| point to point
| noobermin wrote:
| Traffic already slows everyone down, no need for bike activists
| to do that.
| moralestapia wrote:
| This has been going on in Guadalajara (Mexico) for like 10 years
| or so (before the pandemic).
|
| It got so big that at one point the city decided to close some of
| the main roads every Sunday, making them exclusive to
| pedestrians, bicycles, scooters, or whatever-thing-that-is-not-a-
| car.
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| But that is exactly what is happening here -- that they are
| closing the roads where these people are biking, on morning
| commute rush hour times.
|
| Otherwise the story is just "kids go to school on bike".
| peterburkimsher wrote:
| During rush hour, we're in a hurry to meet other people and
| serve them. So we're trying to optimise for time, and that's
| right, we should go to work!
|
| On the way home though, if we optimise for connectedness by
| being willing to stop and pick up litter on the way, the
| whole city will be clean!
|
| This idea didn't actually came from me. It was UncleBob -
| Expecting Professionalism that our wonderful manager Michael
| chose at work on 2021-08-09. I bike to and from work every
| day, so decided to apply the "clean as you go" philosophy to
| every area of life, to love my neighbours the trees, birds,
| eels, snails. And it's brought a lot of "thank you"s, which
| multiplied happiness :)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSaAMQVq01E&t=2021s
| jolmg wrote:
| I thought that was because of a lacking density of parks in the
| city.
| peterburkimsher wrote:
| What is the optimum density of parks in a city?
|
| A possible suggestion is to change our metric for success
| from financial gain to connectedness.
|
| For city planning, like everything else, that could be
| achieved using a Sierpinski triangle: lots of space in the
| middle (with walking & bike paths) and high-density on 3
| sides. Are there any SimCity players here who could simulate
| this for us?
|
| Whether the city is willing to re-zone accordingly is the
| bigger question. I pray that San Francisco's leaders will re-
| zone before the earthquake does it for us.
| wrnr wrote:
| Sort of the same thing happens in SE Asia traffic but then they
| drive scooters, it looks messy but if you are part of the swarm
| it feels very natural.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| I think that's a little different, a ciclovia[1]. We have them
| here in Portland OR, one weekend a month in the summer.
|
| 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciclov%C3%ADa
| moralestapia wrote:
| Sure, the thing is that it started as civic movement aimed at
| 'reclaiming' the streets from cars, which was very similar to
| what OP posted.
|
| Eventually it got quite large, i.e. thousands of people on
| each gathering, and it became some sort of peaceful rally
| that happened every week. In the end, the govt. had no choice
| but to concede them certain things like ciclovias, cycling
| roads, legislation, etc.
|
| I lived in the city for a while and let me tell you, it is
| AMAZING to have all that much space just for walking around,
| talking, having coffee, whatever, even if it's only for one
| day a week.
|
| I want to emphasize on the scale and impact of said project,
| it is ~30 km of roads that are completely closed for cars for
| the whole day. The roads that close are (check this out!) the
| most important ones, running through the middle of the city.
| At the beginning, people were worried that this would have
| some negative effect as, you know, the main roads would be
| completely closed; but today, a decade later, there have been
| zero negative consequences for that. Most people that live
| nearby just run their errands walking because they know they
| can't use their car anyway. Cars are not as important as
| people seem to believe and I would argue that they're more
| harmful as a whole than if they weren't there at all.
|
| I am super thrilled about projects like ->
| https://culdesac.com/, hopefully I can retire to a place like
| that.
| throw63738 wrote:
| Some pictures show there is perfectly working cycling path next
| to road. As someone who walks and uses bus, I have little
| sympathy for such stunts. Just another privileged group stealing
| public roads. Next time it will be politician and his convoy.
| _Wintermute wrote:
| "Stealing public roads", you do realise the roads are for
| people, not just motor vehicles? Especially in densely
| populated cities.
| tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
| If there is a sidewalk and cycling path, then in most
| countries, the road is very specifically for motor vehicles.
| throw63738 wrote:
| Some people use bus!
| chrisseaton wrote:
| We had roads before we had cars. Cars stole roads from people.
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