[HN Gopher] N.I.N.A. - Nighttime Imaging 'N' Astronomy
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N.I.N.A. - Nighttime Imaging 'N' Astronomy
Author : amarsahinovic
Score : 60 points
Date : 2021-10-23 17:34 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (nighttime-imaging.eu)
(TXT) w3m dump (nighttime-imaging.eu)
| dylan604 wrote:
| I love the fact that we have so much available at our disposal
| now to make this kind of thing possible. The old days of manual
| steering to keep the object center over the course of multiple
| nights just to get a single image can now be done in a single
| night with equipment that fits in the back of an SUV. Much thanks
| to people that build tools like this and PHD!
|
| My retirement dream is to do this all the time. I fall prone to
| the traditional amateur astronomer's delima of having free time
| available to go to a dark sky location and the weather is bad, or
| be totally slammed with gorgeous viewing conditions.
| throw0101a wrote:
| For a pre-made hardware appliance/solution see Stellina:
|
| * https://vaonis.com/stellina
|
| * https://www.astrobiscuit.com/stellina-review
|
| * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_AS0R4x_cE
| crazydoggers wrote:
| This looks pretty cool. Anyone have any experience with it? Used
| to use Backyard EOS to control my canon for timed exposures.
|
| Edit: In case anyone is interested here's a couple images I took
| with my 9.5 inch scope. The globular cluster required stacking
| many exposures. The double star is not color enhanced or
| anything, that's how it looks through the eye piece.
|
| https://astrob.in/257816/0/
|
| https://astrob.in/257435/0/
|
| https://astrob.in/256165/0/
| joshspankit wrote:
| Looks well thought out and powerful to use.
|
| The page does, however, fall prey to a common issue among HN
| submissions:
|
| For someone who is not already an expert, _and_ who does not know
| the rest of the pieces required: what do they need to know /have
| to get their first successful use?
|
| I'm vaguely guessing that someone needs a camera that can keep
| the shutter open, some type of servos to turn the camera?, and a
| laptop running next to it all night (which implies you also need
| necessary cables, extra battery power, and waterproof bags just
| in case)?
| crazydoggers wrote:
| I think the issue is that this software really probably targets
| someone already pretty advanced in the hobby. If you're just
| stepping in, this software will probably be overkill.
|
| You can start doing astrophotography with nothing more than a
| nice camera with a tripod and a remote shutter control for long
| exposures. You can get great views of the Milky Way and some
| brighter nebulas that way. If you want longer exposures then
| obviously you'll need a mount that can track the earths
| rotation.
|
| If you're looking to image what are called "deep sky" objects,
| then that's when you'll need something like this software and
| probably a telescope, along with a mount that can track the
| movement of the earth with very high precision. Lots of deep
| sky objects require multiple exposures from a larger telescope
| that can capture lots of light, which are then stacked. The
| stacking requires lining up the star field, so software is a
| must.
|
| Another use for software like this is doing amateur astronomy
| work. For example taking multiple basic images of galaxies
| every night in order to spot a supernova.
| joshspankit wrote:
| Even your reply would be a big help on that page.
|
| Personally, I like to use the best tools even if they are
| _well_ outside my current skillset (diving in to early
| Photoshop was overkill to recolour images and took me dozens
| of hours to start to learn, but working with it paid off many
| times over the years).
|
| Sounds like the most efficient path is:
|
| 1. Nice camera with long exposure via remote shutter: Take
| photos of stars / milky way / some nebulas
|
| 2. Add tripod and mount to automatically move the camera that
| can be optionally controlled via some smart device: Adds the
| ability to see more nebulas, and focus on objects for longer
| (meaning they show up brighter, with more detail)
|
| 3. Add software and maybe a telescope that can connect to the
| camera + mount: Adds the ability to capture things not
| normally visible, and really tune in to the details
|
| Is that right?
| crazydoggers wrote:
| Pretty much. Definitely get the tripod right at the
| beginning. You can get some nice and very portable ones for
| not much money, and with any night photography if you want
| halfway decent shots, it's a must.
|
| And depending on how into it you get, you might not even
| bother with a mount for a camera. If you end up going the
| telescope route you'll want a good equatorial mount for
| that, and typically the camera will attach directly to the
| telescope.
|
| And speaking of mounts, for astrophotography, an equatorial
| mount is a must. It rotates along the earths axis, so it
| can keep the image orientation correct. If you get a mount
| that moves up/down left/right (they call that alt/azimuth)
| then your image will rotate as the night progresses.
|
| For learning, there's also no better place than the cloudy
| nights forums in my opinion:
|
| https://www.cloudynights.com/
|
| edit: dylans comment is also really good and tracks with my
| experiences as well
| samstave wrote:
| Also, garage sales for tripods.
|
| I got a collection of ~30 tripods at a garage sale for
| $10 for the lot.
|
| Some really really cool tripods - but I dont really do
| photography I put my houseplants on them/
|
| https://imgur.com/gallery/l4cwHyp
| dylan604 wrote:
| One thing I'd also suggest is rent, rent, rent. You can
| rent so many different camera bodies and lenses, that
| you'd be silly to not try out different things before
| buying. You can even rent modified camera bodies that
| have the IR filters removed specifically for astro stuff.
|
| Before buying a telescope, attend star parties. People
| will bring out their gear and welcome you to chat and
| view through their gear. You'll start to see the
| differences in telescope types and their pros/cons.
| Astronomy was built on the shoulders of giants, so you
| can take advantage of that as well.
|
| +1000 for cloudynights website
| monkmartinez wrote:
| I am aware of Astrophotography on a limited/thats a thing basis
| and would like to give it a go someday. That said, I think its
| pretty self-explanatory that you will need some kind of imaging
| capturing device as a first step to even have interest in this
| project. The documentation is on the home page...
| :https://nighttime-imaging.eu/docs/master/site/requirements/
|
| Not to be too snide, but I highly doubt you'll need a
| waterproof bag if you are trying to take images of Space at
| night... Kinda hard to see through clouds.
| ksaj wrote:
| Don't forget about dew.
| crazydoggers wrote:
| Dew can definitely be a problem depending on location and
| weather. Dew shields and heaters for lenses or scopes can
| sometimes be required. It doesn't need to be cloudy for dew
| to be an issue.
| joshspankit wrote:
| Aha, then your answer to "if you don't already know, then how
| do you learn?" is "you should just already know" / "use
| common sense". Respectfully, that is quite unhelpful.
|
| I was thinking a waterproof bag in case you set up and a
| storm rolls in and you have to pack up then get back to
| shelter. _My_ common sense says be prepared because you don't
| even want expensive gear to get wet while being transported.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Anyone doing astrophotography has already been watching the
| forecast for days in advance. There's not really going to
| be something rolling in they didn't anticipate, unless
| you're really planning for it.
|
| Depending on where you are and the type of weather you
| have, a storm rolling through could be the best thing. I'm
| in Texas, and my favorite spot to go is a place 4.5 hours
| away. If you want to view things around the center of the
| Milky Way, you'll need to be viewing during the summer.
| Texas and summer don't make for friendly viewing
| conditions. However, if you catch one of those
| thunderstorms that blows through in half an hour or so,
| they can clear the air so that you have much better
| conditions after. You just gotta time it right!
| dylan604 wrote:
| >what do they need to know/have to get their first successful
| use?
|
| Ah, the age old question: how long is a piece of string?
|
| The question you pose is best answered by more questions.
|
| What do you want to do? Wide angle full sky type imagery (think
| full night sky with Milky Way tracing across the image)?
| Planetary images (I'd suggest not starting here)? Deep Sky
| Objects (nebulae, galaxies, star clusters, etc)? Each one of
| those requires different equipment.
|
| Wide angle full sky stuff can be done with a tripod and a
| camera. After that, you will need gear that can start
| "tracking" the sky. Basically, a method to counter act the
| rotation of the earth. Many ways of achieving this for just
| mounting a camera to a tripod.
|
| Say you want to go further, you'll start looking at telescopes.
| Which telescope depends on what you want to image. Now that you
| have a telescope, you'll need a mount. I'd highly suggest an
| equitorial mount.
|
| Now you need a camera to mount to that scope. Again many
| options exist. You can get a mount that allows you to hold your
| mobile phone next to an eyepiece. Works great for
| planetary/moon shots as they are bright enough a long exposure
| is not necessary. If you want to use a DSLR you already have,
| you'll need some method of connecting it to the telescope
| usually with a t-adapter. It connects to your camera like a
| lens, then you slide it in place of the eyepiece. Now your
| telescope is your lens.
|
| All of sudden, you start realizing that your mount and motors
| just are not accurate enough, so now you want to start doing
| guided imaging. Oh boy, now you need a smaller telescope for
| your telescope. That new scope will need it's own camera.
| Depending on where you're going, you can get a new camera that
| is also a guider or one that needs to be plugged into a laptop
| for control. Oh, so you'll need a laptop you don't mind being
| out all night and susceptible to dew etc.
|
| Once you have your guide scope being guided by something,
| you'll get to start learning about stacking. Instead of taking
| a single exposure for 60 minutes, you can take 60 one minute
| exposures. Then there's more software that allows you to take
| your stacks and align/process them.
|
| Okay, so now you have all of this equipment to take great
| images. You'll need a way to transport it. Great, put it in the
| SUV. Now, your schedule will need to align. Certain nights are
| better for imaging than others. Full moons are the wrong time
| for viewing anything but the moon. Great, shift your schedule
| for new moons. Perfect there's one coming up, but the Mrs has
| already made dinner plans with someone you may or may not care
| about, but you won't be using your gear that night. A free
| weekend lines up with a new moon and you've received permission
| from the Mrs to go play. Oops, its cloudy AF, and you're left
| dreaming once again about the imagary you'll someday be able to
| take.
|
| I love my hobby enough to be that cynical.
|
| Edit: I always focus on the tech gear, but there's some other
| basics need too. As many red filters as you can find.
| Flashlights with red filters are a must. Lots of headlamps now
| come with red LEDs as an option. Red filter your laptop screen
| whether with actual filter or an app that changes the screen
| tone. Warm clothes. Because of heat distortion in the
| atmosphere, lots of good viewing during winter. Winter gets
| cold, and it's never as cold as when you're trying to achieve
| focus with 10 little blocks of ice at the end of your hands.
| Also, be aware of the car you are driving. Can you turn the
| headlights off when the car is on? You'll be tempted to sit in
| the car with the heater running, but some cars always have
| running lights that you cannot turn off. Also, check you car's
| interior lights. If you need to keep running back to the car,
| that interior light coming on/off will become annoying. If not
| annoying to you, anyone else imaging that night will start to
| get peeved at you.
|
| The other thing I'd suggest is friends to take with you.
| Sharing the experience is so much more rewarding. If you have
| no friends, at least not interested in staying up all night in
| remote locations, then find star parties. Get involved with
| local groups. It's easy to get defeated, but going to meetings
| and chatting with others helps keep you excited about it.
| JPLeRouzic wrote:
| Thanks for writing this, this is hilarious and so true!
| joshspankit wrote:
| I went on the journey of this comment and fully respect your
| loving cynicism.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Thanks. I really do love this stuff, but I am constantly
| frustrated by how rarely I get to do it. I sold my car at
| the beginning of the pandemic, and while it made financial
| sense, I regretted not being able to go out while that was
| pretty much the perfect thing to do during the pandemic.
| Going outside with fresh air and nobody around because
| there's very few freaks to be wanting to do this.
|
| It's definitely a love/love/hate/love type of hobby.
| madaxe_again wrote:
| I would love a viable F/OSS alternative to SGPro, as it's pretty
| much the only show in town when it comes to fire and forget
| capture sessions, and I'm too busy in the day to stay up all
| night nursing telescopes - I rely on it handling everything from
| focus to acquisition to guiding to some control, including
| exceptions such as weather - and will therefore do my best to
| find the time to contribute to this project.
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