[HN Gopher] When People Carved Turnips Instead of Pumpkins for H...
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       When People Carved Turnips Instead of Pumpkins for Halloween
        
       Author : samizdis
       Score  : 53 points
       Date   : 2021-10-23 09:18 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.smithsonianmag.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.smithsonianmag.com)
        
       | brianolson wrote:
       | Kids just don't learn to carve 'neeps the way they used to. ...
       | Life is Neeps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypsNiixwLXQ
        
       | thorin wrote:
       | Wow there are a lot of people from the North of England here. I'm
       | from Sunderland and it was turnips in the 80s. For the full tick
       | you had to go and nick them out of the farmers field, no
       | organised pumpkin picking for us! Someone told me they managed to
       | spend 70 pounds on a pumpkin picking trip last week with 2
       | children, I think the farmer was a master of upselling!
        
       | kwhitefoot wrote:
       | Where I come from (South West England) turnips are too small to
       | make carving easy, do they really mean swedes? That is Swedish
       | turnips, known as rutabaga in the US,
        
         | m-i-l wrote:
         | Yes, the article refers to what are called turnips (or neeps)
         | in Scotland, i.e. the big yellowish ones that you make neeps
         | and tatties with. I think they're known as swedes in England
         | (although swede in Scotland often refers to the small white
         | ones which I think are called turnips in England).
        
         | Mikeb85 wrote:
         | Dunno, rutabagas are mostly called yellow turnips around here.
         | They're all brassicas in the end.
        
       | bgeeek wrote:
       | As an '80s kid, swedes/turnips were the norm in my hometown in
       | the UK.
        
       | betwixthewires wrote:
       | I've always found it very interesting how this ancient tradition
       | evolved while still keeping true to it's origins. North America
       | was largely settled by people from the isles, particularly Irish
       | and Scotsmen, and the tradition adapted a native plant and it
       | became a classic American tradition all it's own. Then to see
       | that slight change in the ancient tradition spread from North
       | America again, it makes you wonder how future anthropologists
       | will interpret this change, whether they will understand all the
       | cultural and social and economic dynamics that went into it.
        
       | james_a_craig wrote:
       | This is still pretty common in Scotland - I've done it mostly
       | every year since I was a child. They give you a much creepier
       | lantern than pumpkins do, but they can smell awful as the candle
       | cooks them a bit, and they collapse spectacularly over the next
       | few days.
        
         | GordonS wrote:
         | Fellow Scot here - it was always turnips where I grew up, but
         | even in rural areas it's mostly pumpkins nowadays. There are
         | still a few holdouts though, mostly those adverse to the
         | "Americanisation" of traditions.
        
           | m-i-l wrote:
           | Yes, it was turnips (known as swedes in England and rutabaga
           | in the US) when I was young too.
           | 
           | We also did guising, i.e. the dressing up and going around
           | houses, which turned into trick or treating when it was
           | exported to the US. The US-style trick or treating was
           | starting to be re-imported when I was young, but (certainly
           | where I was) it wasn't looked upon very favourably because it
           | was usually practised by the rougher sorts who used it as an
           | excuse to throw eggs at peoples homes (the traditional
           | guising hadn't had the "trick" element).
        
             | GordonS wrote:
             | Just for info, we call them "neeps" here in Scotland, but
             | they are actually swedes as you say.
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | We did this when I was a kid in Lincolnshire, which has a lot of
       | turnips.
        
       | shever73 wrote:
       | I grew up in the North of England and remember going out trick or
       | treating with my uncle and cousins about 40 years ago. We carved
       | turnips into jack o'lanterns, and threaded string to carry them.
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | Last year we used a projector to add stencils to the pumpkin by
       | using a small dremel to make the outline. Super easy to do and
       | fun for the kids!
        
       | Sharlin wrote:
       | I mean, pumpkins are a New World plant, so would be strange if
       | they had been historically used on the British Isles.
        
         | gilrain wrote:
         | True, but it's interesting... some of those new world plants
         | spread so quickly that, for instance, many New World foods were
         | first introduced to the US from the Old World, and knowledge
         | that they were actually New World would have been quite
         | limited.
         | 
         | For instance, chile peppers spread from South America so
         | quickly that subsequent explorers of Africa, China, etc.
         | misidentified them as being native to those and other places.
         | 
         | In the US, even among native communities, chile peppers arrived
         | largely with slaves from Africa, and were thought of as exotic.
        
           | stan_rogers wrote:
           | Tomatoes in North America had pretty much the same journey -
           | from South/Central America to Europe, then back to the
           | Americas, where they didn't really catch on for quite a
           | while.
        
       | celticninja wrote:
       | I carved turnips when I was younger, maybe only 30 (previously
       | said 40) years ago. Pumpkins were expensive back then and the
       | tradition, for my parents when they were younger, back in Ireland
       | was to carve a turnip. You would do it much the same except you
       | would add a handle and be able to carry it around with you at
       | night. It was a lot more work to carve but it was great for trick
       | or treating, especially when cheap torches were not so easily
       | available.
        
         | andrewgleave wrote:
         | Same in the Isle of Man.
         | 
         | Pumpkins only became more popular in the 90s. Turnip/Swede
         | (moots) all the way.
         | 
         | One event this year has swede ice cream!
        
           | kingcharles wrote:
           | Whoah. Isle of Man representing on HN. I've reached the end
           | of the Internet.
           | 
           | Also: turnip boy here. Don't think I even saw a pumpkin until
           | I was in my late teens.
        
             | andrewgleave wrote:
             | Since 2009 :)
        
               | atdrummond wrote:
               | We should have a Manx HN meet up sometime!
        
         | noir_lord wrote:
         | North of England up as a small child in the 80's as well.
         | 
         | Pumpkins weren't really a thing here until much later.
        
         | raesene9 wrote:
         | Same for me, in Scotland. When I was young (~ 40 years ago) it
         | was Turnips lanterns we had.
        
           | fiftyacorn wrote:
           | Yeah pumpkins only became popular when kids started trick or
           | treating up here. Before it was turnips and guising
        
         | entropyie wrote:
         | Same here, turnip was the tradition in Ireland in the 80s/90s,
         | pumpkins were an American import.
         | 
         | Like others have said, it was _hard_ work :)
        
         | jaymzcampbell wrote:
         | Another (Northern) Irishman here - I too remember vividly
         | carving out rather small turnips as a kid in the late 80s and
         | 90s. The small size and difficulty in carving it for me always
         | ended up making for a rather creepy but oddly friendly looking
         | grin.
        
       | dpwm wrote:
       | I first heard about this from the pizza effect Wikipedia page:
       | 
       | > The creation of jack-o'-lanterns from turnips (rutabaga) was a
       | Halloween custom in Ireland and parts of Great Britain. Irish
       | immigrants brought this tradition with them to the United States,
       | and adapted it to use native pumpkins instead of turnips. In
       | time, pumpkins came to be used instead of turnips to create
       | jack-o'-lanterns in Ireland and Great Britain. [0]
       | 
       | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_effect#Ireland
       | 
       | EDIT: There's also more information in the article Wikipedia
       | cites [1]
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-
       | drink/hal...
        
         | im3w1l wrote:
         | Fascinating. This kind of reminds me of people's romanticized
         | views of the past. And it supports my theory that "returning"
         | to a past that never was is possible and maybe even desirable.
        
       | periheli0n wrote:
       | Same in Southern Germany 40 years ago. We would carve faces into
       | turnips. After dark we would put a small candle inside & place
       | them in front of a neighbour's door. We rang the bell and hid. If
       | the ,,turnip-ghosts" were to the neighbours' delight, they would
       | put a few coins or treats next to them. We did this for the whole
       | neighbourhood.
       | 
       | Once a guy who moved in only recently from a different area in
       | Germany wasn't aware of the tradition. He took them inside! We
       | were probably equally offended by this reaction as he was by what
       | he must have thought was a very strange way to say ,,welcome"
       | from his new neighbours in this godforsaken place he got stranded
       | for a job :D
        
       | microtherion wrote:
       | In Switzerland, turnip lanterns are still seen as the genuine
       | tradition, and pumpkin carving, while decidedly more fun, as an
       | imported custom.
       | 
       | The Swiss style turnip lantern generally does not use faces, but
       | is mostly ornamental (Using cookie cutter shapes for those not
       | skilled at free hand carving). Instead of cutting holes, only the
       | outer skin is supposed to be removed, which takes even greater
       | skill of hollowing out the turnip.
       | 
       | The children then assemble in parades with their turnip lanterns.
       | Turnips are definitely more convenient for parading, and pumpkins
       | for stationary displays, so I see both traditions coexisting
       | here.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-23 23:01 UTC)