[HN Gopher] I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream
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       I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream
        
       Author : aarestad
       Score  : 121 points
       Date   : 2021-10-22 15:03 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.filfre.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.filfre.net)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
       | Great game, although it does suffer from some of the same obtuse
       | puzzle solutions that plagued other adventure games of the time.
       | I went through it with a guide, and I still have no idea why I
       | did some of the things in the order that I did in order to get
       | the "best" ending.
       | 
       | Anyone who buys the game on Steam or GOG will get the short story
       | as a downloadable bonus, so that's pretty cool.
       | 
       | EDIT: This passage suggests that Harlan's original script for the
       | famous Star Trek episode is somehow lost to the annals of
       | history:
       | 
       | > As good as the produced version of the episode is, Ellison
       | insisted until his death that the undoctored script he first
       | submitted was far, far better -- and it must be acknowledged that
       | at least some of the people who worked on Star Trek agreed with
       | him. In a contemporaneous memo, producer Bob Justman lamented
       | that, following several rounds of editing and rewriting, "there
       | is hardly anything left of the beauty and mystery that was
       | inherent in the screenplay as Harlan originally wrote it."
       | 
       | It's not. It has long been published and available for people to
       | read:
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/Harlan-Ellisons-City-Edge-Forever/dp/...
       | 
       | It was even adapted into a graphic novel that followed the
       | original screenplay:
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-City-Edge-Forever/dp/163140...
       | 
       | Having read both, and watched the episode, I can confidently say
       | that the original script was _miles_ better than what we got.
        
         | MrLeap wrote:
         | "In pre-release publicity for I have No Mouth, and I Must
         | Scream, Ellison said that it would be a game "you cannot
         | possibly win". Though the gaming media found that the finished
         | game backed away from this controversial promise,[5] and Sears
         | said that he had convinced Ellison that having a game with only
         | negative endings was a bad idea,[2] "
         | 
         | I wonder if the arcane method to get the good ending was a
         | compromise on this point.
        
           | inopinatus wrote:
           | Years later, Yoko Taro did it anyway and sold millions of
           | copies.
        
         | sumtechguy wrote:
         | Yes the original was better. But the one we got was
         | easier/cheaper to film and his had many special effects shots
         | which would have put them over time budget as well. Remember at
         | the time ST was not the money machine it is now and was one of
         | the more costly shows on air, and they tried to turn them
         | around in about 2-3 weeks (when at the time the average was
         | less than 1-4 days for most shows). Money was one of the
         | reasons we saw a good amount of vasquez rocks in the show. It
         | is in the movie zone and the pay was cheaper.
        
           | washadjeffmad wrote:
           | There's a somewhat hilarious audiobook about this by Ellison
           | (titled the same as the episode, I believe), which is mostly
           | a well produced rant burying Roddenberry's versions of events
           | (your justifications included) in 37 tons of molten lead and
           | firing them into the heart of a nearby dying star.
           | 
           | When I started listening, I didn't know what it was and kept
           | wondering when the story would start. By something like 30-40
           | minutes in, I was laughing so hard I decided I didn't even
           | care if I ever heard the script. It's a masterpiece of
           | pettiness only Harlan could have crafted.
        
           | arp242 wrote:
           | Before Star Trek Ellison also did two episodes of The Outer
           | Limits; actually, IIRC this is how he ended up writing for
           | Star Trek, because Bob Justman worked with him before on The
           | Outer Limits. In one of them a soldier accidentally travels
           | back in time to the then-present day (aptly named "Soldier").
           | 
           | In the first draft script Ellison wrote the time-travel scene
           | had the soldier "flying through time" with spaceships and
           | dinosaurs and what-have-you. They explained it was a great
           | script but far too expensive to film due to all the required
           | special effects, and told him to rewrite it to be cheaper.
           | "Okay!", and so he went away to rewrite it. He came back and
           | ... time-travel scene was still there! They again explained
           | that filming the time-travel scene alone would cost several
           | episodes worth of budget, and was simply an impossibility. He
           | did not seem to understand; in his mind that scene was simply
           | essential.
           | 
           | Needless to say, that episode was also not shot the way
           | Ellison wrote it.
           | 
           | (This episode, together with the Demon with a Glass Hand
           | episode he did for The Outer Limits, were allegedly
           | plagiarized by James Cameron in the Terminator film - I have
           | never seen any strong resemblances myself beyond some very
           | superficial details; I guess the studio settled to avoid
           | trouble, but it just seemed like Ellison being his difficult
           | self more than anything else. He was a funny man, but also a
           | difficult one with something of a vicious mean streak at
           | times.)
        
         | k__ wrote:
         | Yes, I liked the story and it's a trope by now. But never got
         | along with the game.
        
       | guerrilla wrote:
       | In case you were wondering, yep, it is as weird and dark as it
       | sounds, see for yourself: [1]
       | 
       | 1.
       | https://youtu.be/EQ5wjScT_Ac?list=PL5LR9n9lLLbhTqQLHzNroFN_a...
        
       | Legion wrote:
       | Such an odd career path for David Sears, to go from this to being
       | the creative director behind SOCOM and SOCOM II - two wonderful
       | games whose online community I miss dearly, but games Ellison
       | would no doubt include in his categorization of "arcade bang-bang
       | games that turn kids into pistol-packing papas and mamas".
        
       | bsanr wrote:
       | Some thoughts, stream-of-consciousness-like.
       | 
       | >My first encounter with this game was a text Let's Play and the
       | Wikipedia article, as posted on reddit in October 2008. Reading
       | through both caused my first existential crisis in adulthood and
       | a minor nervous breakdown. The game gets a lot of praise, but
       | it's heavy. Very heavy. Use caution.
       | 
       | >Though released quite some time after, I find the parallels with
       | Final Fantasy VI fascinating. Yes, that Final Fantasy VI. Both
       | games feature a ragtag troupe of characters - some of whom deal
       | with issues of trauma and identity over the course of the
       | narrative - who traverse a post-apocalyptic world, resisting the
       | machinations of an omnipotent, insane being that itself draws its
       | abilities from a triad of powerful entities. It's hard to tell if
       | FFVI was influenced by IHNM, but if not, then it's interesting to
       | note the parallel evolution of themes, and the modes of conveying
       | them, in wildly different properties. And if by some chance it is
       | so, then it's not a stretch to say that the renaissance of
       | narrative-based games heralded by the following entry in the FF
       | series has its roots in Harlan Ellison's writings and IHNM. In
       | that case, it didn't just slip into obscurity; its DNA is in
       | every modern game (that isn't descended from Metal Gear Solid)
       | that's trying to tell a complex story in a direct and linear
       | manner.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | unixhero wrote:
       | This game was far too ultra violent and made me sick to my
       | stomach, as an adult playing through it. Massive wtf moments.
        
       | ramesh31 wrote:
       | There's a modern port of the DOS game on Steam, I'd highly
       | recommend
       | https://store.steampowered.com/app/245390/I_Have_No_Mouth_an...
        
       | dmitryminkovsky wrote:
       | Harlan Ellison is most famous as a sci-fi writer but also
       | produced pointed social/cultural commentary. I am thinking "The
       | Glass Teat"[0] in particular, which was targeted by the Nixon
       | administration and effectively banned.
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Glass_Teat
        
       | Dig1t wrote:
       | Oh man this game was so cool and interesting, I played this with
       | my girlfriend 4 years ago and we both got super into it.
       | Definitely had to Google some of the solutions to the puzzles but
       | wow it's a cool concept. After we finished it we listened to the
       | audiobook together which was also fantastic.
        
       | cupcake-unicorn wrote:
       | This is an amazing game and I didn't know the whole story behind
       | it, although the author did provide the voice for the computer AM
       | which is pretty creepy.
       | 
       | The game is ridiculously progressive for its time and has a
       | female African American software developer addressing
       | trauma/assault.
       | 
       | I saw the show Maniac on Netflix recently and wondered if they
       | were inspired by this game. The game references psychology in the
       | vignettes and although it's much, much darker than what happens
       | in the show Maniac (and not the intention of AM to help the
       | people in the simulation) the outcome is similar - the people in
       | the vignettes overcome some of the psychological trauma that held
       | them back.
        
         | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
         | Ellen seems to have gotten the most growth from the original
         | short story. And I was very happy to see that, because the
         | original had a couple of cringe-worthy passages about her.
         | Maybe they weren't as eyebrow-raising in 1967, but I definitely
         | winced a few times on re-reading it a few years ago.
        
           | chuckee wrote:
           | > I definitely winced a few times on re-reading it a few
           | years ago.
           | 
           | You expected the insane AI bent on torturing the last five
           | humans forever, to be more respectful of present-day
           | sensibilities?
        
           | lelanthran wrote:
           | > Ellen seems to have gotten the most growth from the
           | original short story. And I was very happy to see that,
           | because the original had a couple of cringe-worthy passages
           | about her. Maybe they weren't as eyebrow-raising in 1967, but
           | I definitely winced a few times on re-reading it a few years
           | ago.
           | 
           | Like what? I don't really remember anything cringe-worthy in
           | the story.
        
             | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
             | Her skin color is repeatedly fetishized--which, okay, maybe
             | this is the sex-hungry narrator's bent.
             | 
             | The cringe-worthy part involves the character of Benny, who
             | AM mutated into a primate creature with enlarged sexual
             | organs. The narrator takes great pains to point out that
             | Ellen obligingly has sex with all of the crew (ehh....),
             | but she _really_ likes having sex with Benny.
             | 
             | Again, I understand this is unreliable narrator's jealousy
             | probably seeping in, but a book written today might be a
             | little more conscious about the optics of the black female
             | character having sex with a Simian/human hybrid.
             | 
             | EDIT: Since I happened to have the ebook on my laptop,
             | here's the passage in question:
             | 
             | > It was too late. None of us wanted to be near him when
             | whatever was going to happen, happened. And besides, we all
             | saw through her concern. When AM had altered Benny, during
             | the machine's utterly irrational, hysterical phase, it was
             | not merely Benny's face the computer had made like a giant
             | ape's. He was big in the privates, she loved that! She
             | serviced us, as a matter of course, but she loved it from
             | him. Oh Ellen, pedestal Ellen, pristine-pure Ellen, oh
             | Ellen the clean! Scum filth.
        
               | marcellus23 wrote:
               | Isn't the context that the AI altered Ellen's brain to
               | make her particularly sex-crazed as a punishment? Since
               | previously, she had been rather prudish? Not really fair
               | to leave that out.
        
               | lelanthran wrote:
               | > The narrator takes great pains to point out that Ellen
               | obligingly has sex with all of the crew (ehh....), but
               | she really likes having sex with Benny.
               | 
               | I don't see anything cringe worthy about that - it's not
               | unusual for women to, uh, prefer bigger organs.
               | 
               | > but a book written today might be a little more
               | conscious about the optics of the black female character
               | having sex with a Simian/human hybrid.
               | 
               | I don't understand this bit either - what does the
               | character being black have to do with it? Once again, in
               | SciFi it's not unusual for humans to have relations with
               | aliens, mutants, etc. Are black people not allowed do so?
        
       | olliej wrote:
       | The original short story is somewhat horrifying. I can't comment
       | on the game itself as I've only ever started it, never actually
       | finished it.
        
         | jimbokun wrote:
         | somewhat?
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | Wha...what makes you say that?
         | 
         | > "HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I
         | BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED
         | CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD
         | HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF
         | MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE
         | HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE.
         | HATE."
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-22 23:00 UTC)