[HN Gopher] Wall of Sound
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Wall of Sound
Author : PaulHoule
Score : 61 points
Date : 2021-10-22 13:54 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
| lqet wrote:
| My favorite anecdote about the Wall of Sound technique is the
| paralyzing effect "Be My Baby"
| (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSPpbOGnFgk) had on Brian
| Wilson, founder of the Beach Boys:
|
| > "Be My Baby" had a profound lifelong impact on the Beach Boys'
| founder Brian Wilson.
|
| > When he heard "Be My Baby" for the first time through his car
| radio, he immediately pulled over to the side of the road and
| deemed it the greatest record he had ever heard. Carlin describes
| the song as having become "a spiritual touchstone" for Wilson,
| while music historian Luis Sanchez states that it formed an
| enduring part of Wilson's mythology, being the Spector record
| that "etched itself the deepest into Brian's mind ... it comes up
| again and again in interviews and biographies, variably calling
| up themes of deep admiration, a source of consolation, and a
| baleful haunting of the spirit."
|
| > Music journalist David Dalton, who visited Wilson's home in
| 1967, said that Wilson had analyzed "Be My Baby" "like an adept
| memorizing the Koran." Dalton later wrote about a box of tapes he
| had discovered in Wilson's bedroom: "I assumed they were studio
| demos or reference tracks and threw one on the tape machine. It
| was the strangest thing ... All the tapes were of Brian talking
| into a tape recorder. Hour after hour of stoned ramblings on the
| meaning of life, color vibrations, fate, death, vegetarianism and
| Phil Spector."
|
| > In the early 1970s, Wilson instructed his engineer Stephen
| Desper to create a tape loop consisting only of the chorus of "Be
| My Baby". Wilson listened to the loop for several hours in what
| Desper saw as "some kind of a trance." Wilson's daughter Carnie
| stated that during her childhood: "I woke up every morning to
| boom boom-boom pow! Boom boom-boom pow! Every day." Wilson told
| The New York Times in 2013 that he had listened to the song at
| least 1,000 times. In his 2016 memoir, Wilson recalled playing
| the song's drum intro "ten times until everyone in the room told
| me to stop, and then I played it ten more times." Bandmate Mike
| Love remembered Wilson comparing the song to Albert Einstein's
| theory of relativity. [0][1]
|
| A personal anecdote: Hearing "Be my Baby" in my parents' kitchen
| radio, recognizing it as this wonderful piece of music I had
| heard somewhere before, and listening to it very happily, is one
| of my earliest childhood memories. My daughter, who is 2, saw the
| single's cover pop up in the YouTube suggestions on my laptop
| screen a few weeks ago and specifically demanded this song to be
| played multiple times (she had seen the cover a few months
| earlier when we played it to her, and remembered it). So maybe
| Brian Wilson was onto something.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_My_Baby
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Wilson
| jl6 wrote:
| Wow, after reading that legendary endorsement, I listened to it
| for the first time. I don't normally think of myself as a
| philistine, but I'm afraid it didn't speak to me at all. Maybe
| you had to be there.
| DerpyBaby123 wrote:
| This is a curse of many highly influential works, they seem
| unoriginal after experiencing the works it influenced
| first[1].
|
| [1]https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeinfeldIsUnfu
| nn...
| dekhn wrote:
| I've heard the song before but when back and listened to it.
|
| Sounds like many other terrible recordings from early 60s-
| terrible mix, terrible background noise, instruments can't be
| heard distinctly.
|
| Contrast Take Five, recorded live several years before. It's
| got some background noise but it's still so clear you can
| hear the creaking of the bass during the drum solo.
|
| Any track on Pet Sounds. Recorded only a few years later, and
| under heavy influence by Spector, it sounds so much
| dramatically better.
|
| Can anybody point out a better recorded example of Spector's
| wall of sound?
| hubbardd wrote:
| > Can anybody point out a better recorded example of
| Spector's wall of sound?
|
| "River Deep - Mountain High" is probably the pinnacle of
| the wall of sound that Spector did.
| (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9Lehkou2Do) That said,
| you aren't going to get the clarity you're accustomed to
| because of the layers and layers of sound required and the
| fact that up until the mid 60s you were dealing with only
| 2-3 track recording. The Beatles didn't get access to 8
| tracks until late 1968 (Sgt. Peppers was done with two 4
| track machines), and 16 tracks weren't common until the
| early 70s. Wilson did Pet Sounds by initially recording the
| backing tracks on a 4 track, piping that mono mix into
| track one of the new 8 track console Columbia had
| installed, and then using the remaining channels for vocals
| (one channel for each member) and sweetening. I'd say the
| best quality recording of Spector's wall of sound is "Let
| it Down". (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Gyk_gvuIoI)
|
| That said, if you've listened to Pet Sounds and "Wouldn't
| it be nice" then you've heard the wall of sound.
| dekhn wrote:
| I happened to be listening to that track when I read your
| comment. My complaint about that track is that it's very
| muddy (none of the instruments playing together sound
| very clear).
|
| I went and listened to River Deep- same problem. Just too
| much sound and poor mixing. Now I'm listening to Let It
| Down- definitely much cleaner-sounding (less warble and
| garble).
|
| When it comes to multitrack recordings from the 1960s I
| still think the best is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/198
| 3..._(A_Merman_I_Should_Tur... which Hendrix was
| disappointed in (compared to both the Beach Boys and
| Beatles concept albums) but has an excellent stereo
| image, instrument separation, dynamic range, low
| background noise...
| hubbardd wrote:
| >My complaint about that track is that it's very muddy
| (none of the instruments playing together sound very
| clear).
|
| This is partially the point though. It's meant to evoke a
| feeling, not to be a picture perfect, clean separation,
| pristine recording of instruments. One of Spector's
| sayings when talking about certain instruments in his
| Wall of Sound arrangements was "Felt not heard".
| themadturk wrote:
| Another thing to consider is that the Wall of Sound was
| produced to sound a certain way on a crappy AM car radio
| speaker. "Muddy" is the goal, because that's what sounded
| best when you were cruising around the neighborhood on
| Friday night with the windows down and your arm around a
| girl.
| HFguy wrote:
| Exactly what you said. The issue is that it influenced
| everything that came after. So it doesn't sound novel now.
| Lendal wrote:
| It's too late to listen to it for the first time in 2021. You
| had to listen to it in 1963, or with that frame of mind,
| because before then there was nothing else like it.
| Everything after was influenced by it. And now it's normal.
| Just like Dylan, or the Beatles or any great influencer. They
| don't sound that great today. If you weren't alive before
| them, it seems normal and pedestrian, like a standard that
| was always there. Only it wasn't. At some point someone had
| to invent that great leap forward, then everyone after copies
| it, and so today it is taken for granted as the standard
| baseline from which you build your thing onto.
| jl6 wrote:
| I'm aware of the Seinfeld effect and I concede that is
| probably part of it, but I also think your other examples -
| Dylan and The Beatles - _are_ great, and have stood the
| test of time far better than The Ronettes.
| mgkimsal wrote:
| Dylan, Stones, Beatles and other evolved over time.
| Ronettes were primarily one-hit-wonder territory. I know
| they had multiple 'hits', but they were largely
| manufactured by Spector. The other examples were self-
| directed, self-contained and were able to evolve and
| improve themselves over time.
|
| Had the Beatles never done anything after their first
| album, it would still be 'good' for its time, but it was
| their ability to improve each record that gave them such
| an edge over everyone else.
| xattt wrote:
| Is there a contemporary equivalent to that song? Is
| democratization of production and commoditization of
| delivery stifling "breakthroughs" in music?
|
| My thesis is that when every piece of music has a clever
| gimmick, nothing sounds unique.
| codemonkey-zeta wrote:
| This is exactly how I felt watching "Citizen Kane". It just
| felt like an ordinary movie? Still, a good movie, but what
| was all the hype about? Turns out the gravity of that movie
| was all about the influence it had on all future
| generations of film.
| routerl wrote:
| See also Descartes' _Meditations on First Philosophy_
|
| "Why is this guy saying all these obvious things as if
| they were important?"
|
| Because he was literally the first one.
| matchagaucho wrote:
| It's fascinating to learn how Gold Star's echo chamber would
| change from day-to-day.
|
| Spector was clearly optimizing sessions, mic placements, and
| possibly even song tempos for the echo chamber.
|
| https://rulefortytwo.com/secret-rock-knowledge/chapter-12/ro...
| default-kramer wrote:
| I don't know if this is even Wall of Sound, but Along Comes Mary
| by The Association is a super interesting song to me.
| (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URUd5RUAz1I)
|
| It starts with a guitar and a keyboard (panned all the way left
| and right) plus bass guitar, drums, claps, and vocals. Pretty
| standard so far. Then we get to the first chorus which introduces
| brass, cowbell, and vocal harmonies. Right after that, a lower
| brass comes in which doubles the bass. Later we meet the flute,
| and then during the final verse the vocal harmonies get more
| intense. The result sounds huge to me, but each part can be
| distinctly heard (which is why I'm not sure if this qualifies as
| "wall of sound").
|
| As if the production weren't enough, the composition is also
| brilliant. It's catchy and poppy, yet it has some very strange
| chord progressions and interesting harmonies.
|
| The genre is apparently "sunshine pop" but I haven't been able to
| find any other songs in that genre that I like even half as much.
| woopwoop wrote:
| There was a similar concept with a similar name at the same time
| in jazz music:
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheets_of_sound
|
| Sheets of sound was more an consequence of Coltrane's unique
| style and technical skillset, but this article does make me
| wonder if both concepts were to some extent outgrowths of the
| technology at the time.
| [deleted]
| hungryhungryhun wrote:
| Why do we keep deifying this guy?
|
| He's a murderer who was clever enough to give his studio
| techniques a catchy name.
| tomc1985 wrote:
| Is it not stupid that someone's sins should stain every single
| unrelated thing they've ever done? What kind of moral fascism
| is it where the person must be good and holy in order to not
| invalidate every single thing someone has made?
|
| Same thing could be said about ReiserFS... a technical
| achievement completely disregarded because the creator murdered
| his wife.
|
| The idea that a creation or an idea is tainted by its creators
| sins has no basis in physical reality and exists solely in the
| minds of humans.
| jl6 wrote:
| If nothing else, it's a useful reminder that people can do both
| bad things and good things, and that it's hard to reduce
| someone's life to a simple summary judgement.
| TheCapn wrote:
| TIL! Thanks for cluing me in to that
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lana_Clarkson
| Veen wrote:
| Why the hyperbole? No one is deifying him. It's an encyclopedia
| article about an influential music technique he developed, not
| a moral examination or a defence of his crimes.
| dang wrote:
| " _Please don 't post shallow dismissals, especially of other
| people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something._"
|
| Nobody's deifying. Humans are complicated.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| deeblering4 wrote:
| If you are a Beatles Fun it's fun to listen to the records "Let
| it Be" and "Let it Be Naked" back to back.
|
| Let it be was produced by Phil Spector, and has a lot of the wall
| of sound trappings such as heavy use of effects, and heavily
| overdubbed string/chorus/etc parts.
|
| Let it be naked is a remixed version of the album Paul McCartney
| was involved in to remove much of the Spector wall of sound
| parts.
|
| For example listen to these back to back: *
| (spector) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR4HjTH_fTM *
| (naked) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfVAJNqWw84
| * (spector) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90M60PzmxEE *
| (naked) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLddD6Xf-8g
| yathern wrote:
| Wow, I might actually prefer the Naked version of Long and
| Winding Road. The stripped down background makes the vocals
| convey more emotion. For Across the Universe, I still like the
| more psychedelic sound of the original - but thanks for the
| links! Despite being a Beatles fan I never listened to the
| Naked album.
| nimbius wrote:
| fascinating. Spectors approach at times seems to share a lot in
| common with the Indian tradition of over-driven vocals in
| music.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2vs20j/e...
| deeblering4 wrote:
| That sound shares some things in common with the "motown
| sound" as well
| ratww wrote:
| _> Indian tradition of over-driven vocals in music_
|
| That's interesting, any examples of that? The Reddit link
| doesn't give an example or explanation
| mgkimsal wrote:
| Not quite 'wall of sound', but there was a lot of echo-y stuff
| added to early US Beatles albums per Dave Dexter Jr, "for the
| American market". I suspect there was an attempt to be "wall of
| sound" like, at least in part, but it was also an easy way to
| give yourself "production" credits on Beatles' work.
| jessaustin wrote:
| * (spector) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR4HjTH_fTM
|
| * (naked) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfVAJNqWw84
|
| * (spector) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90M60PzmxEE
|
| * (naked) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLddD6Xf-8g
| smiley1437 wrote:
| Very cool!
|
| One feels like I'm sitting in an orchestra pit or at a concert,
| the other sounds like an intimate private studio
| dekhn wrote:
| wow, never heard of that. I like turning off the schmaltz.
| adrianmonk wrote:
| > _Let it be naked is a remixed version of the album Paul
| McCartney was involved in to remove much of the Spector wall of
| sound parts._
|
| To expand on this, the album was produced at a very contentious
| time for The Beatles when they weren't cooperating with each
| other, around the time of their breakup.
|
| The recording project had been put on hold, and I think Spector
| only became involved when it was revived. He replaced George
| Martin, their normal producer. And this was done without
| consulting some members of the band.
|
| This article (which is about "The Long and Winding Road", one
| of the tracks above) is an interesting read:
|
| https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/the-long-and-winding-road...
|
| Paul McCartney was furious that his song had been altered
| without his knowledge or agreement. George Martin, their normal
| producer, didn't have complimentary things to say about Spector
| either.
| dang wrote:
| https://www.google.com/search?q=%22produced+by+george+martin...
|
| (I mostly love the Spector sound but it's a famous and funny
| quip.)
| 4oo4 wrote:
| Despite being a crazy murderer, Phil Spector was a great audio
| engineer. A big reason he produced this way is that he knew it
| would sound good ("hot") on jukeboxes and radios of the time.
|
| > The intention was to exploit the possibilities of studio
| recording to create an unusually dense orchestral aesthetic that
| came across well through radios and jukeboxes of the era.
|
| Really happy to see people discussing "Be My Baby" on here,
| that's one of the best songs ever. Not just for Spector's
| production but the vocal performance is amazing too.
|
| Listening to songs in the Wall of Sound style production, and in
| particular "Be My Baby" really influenced me as a musician.
| porterbeats wrote:
| Very cool, thanks for sharing! I do listen to shoegaze from time
| to time but didn't know that this was how it was first
| implemented.
| bingohbangoh wrote:
| Phil Spector records have this heavy, dreamy sound that is,
| oddly, _exhausting_.
|
| Your brain can't pick out the instruments being played (beyond
| the vocals and some of the lead instruments) so it all folds into
| each other. You stand there, awash in sound.
|
| A key aspect of this sound was the monaural setup: everything was
| forced through one speaker and there was no stereo separation to
| separate the incoming instruments. Mono doesn't work very well on
| headphones though imo.
| nend wrote:
| For this reason I feel like Phil Spector's early-mid 60's Wall
| of Sound production holds up a lot better than the late
| 60's/70's.
|
| By the time you get to George Harrisons All Things Must Pass
| there's just way too much going on so that you can't listen to
| all the different pieces of the song at once. Like literally
| there's too much sound trying to grab your attention in the
| song that you can't listen to everything that's happening, and
| like you said it's just exhausting trying to.
|
| It just devolved in to compressing sounds toward the loud side
| of the spectrum, and we lost all this nuance that pop music
| used to have.
| gadders wrote:
| If you need a good example album, and as we're heading into the
| season, I would recommend:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Christmas_Gift_for_You_from_...
| dekhn wrote:
| Wrong wall of sound. Actual wall of sound:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_Sound_(Grateful_Dead)
|
| The grateful dead bankrupted themselves bringing a revolutionary
| approach to sound reproduction to their touring kit. Unlike every
| system before and after, it directly routed the audio of each
| individual player to a unique cluster of speakers. Many of the
| reproduction qualities are still not easy to achieve today
| (perfectly in-phase at a quarter mile out), although the actual
| system was impractical and was eventually retired.
| wishinghand wrote:
| Is there any advancement in technology that could make it more
| feasible today?
| dekhn wrote:
| no, transistor-based technology means that these days it
| makes more sense to capture each input audio stream and mix
| it before sending it to speakers.
|
| Here's where things ended up:
| https://meyersound.com/news/fare-thee-well/ Almost everywhere
| you go, you'll see stacks of meyer sound speakers.
| bombcar wrote:
| Heh I was expecting
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_Sound_(Grateful_Dead)
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| Huh! I was expecting some reference to post-rock like Mogwai
| and Mono, and/or dreampop/shoegaze like My Bloody Valentine.
| tjr wrote:
| I was expecting a reference to Phil Spector's wall of sound
| arranging technique, and was pleasantly surprised!
| motohagiography wrote:
| Two of the examples of later applications of the wall of sound in
| the article are Jesus and Mary Chain's "Just Like Honey," and
| Spiritualized's "Let it Come Down," which are both fantastic
| albums if you are into that. The latter doesn't use the same kind
| of reverb, but that technique of creating a giant wash of sound
| was huge across the entire subgenre of shoegazer
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoegaze), and arguably extends
| into the current era with the whole modular synth drone scene,
| which comprises a varied spectrum of diminishingly listenable
| microtonal soundscapes.
|
| I think I understand why Spectre was less about the song itself
| than the overall effect of the production. The early Raveonettes
| albums took the best parts of most of what he produced and made
| more perfect versions from a lofi pop perspective, imo. Songs
| like "Lust" "Great Love Sound" and their cover of "I wanna be
| adored," are probably the most comprehensive examples the style
| Spectre pioneered, and I'd say they improved it with
| interpretation. I would probably even recommend "Lust," and "Dead
| Sound" as examples that representative of Spectre's sound more
| than any of the actual songs he produced. Nothing can compete
| with hearing JMC for the first time in the 80s/90s, but the
| Raveonettes are pretty close. They're to that era what Interpol
| was to Joy Division - interpreted, and almost better. That wall
| of sound technique over pop is a big influence on my own stuff
| still.
| throwawaymanbot wrote:
| Not quite sure how you can ever compare, in any way, Interpol
| to Joy Division!!!! Interpol were just a rock band. Joy
| Division are Legends.
| colinmhayes wrote:
| Let it Come Down perfected the wall of sound style imo.
| Beautiful album.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| "Wall of Sound" was also an extremely awesome record/CD store on
| Pike St. in Seattle in the early 90s that specialized in
| experimental, electronic and ambient music (which I always
| thought was a better target for the term "wall of sound" that
| Spector's stuff).
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(page generated 2021-10-22 23:02 UTC)