[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Anyone working remotely for a US company int...
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       Ask HN: Anyone working remotely for a US company internationally?
        
       I've been working for small(ish) startups based in the US
       internationally and have had no issues. (I work as a contractor
       essentially)  I was wondering if anyone's got an arrangement like
       this going with a larger organization? I'm looking to switch jobs
       and try working somewhere a tad bigger.
        
       Author : anonymous2324
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2021-10-22 10:39 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
       | mettamage wrote:
       | Are there non-Americans doing this?
        
         | crummy wrote:
         | Yes, if you're a contractor your lack of a US passport doesn't
         | seem to matter (in my limited experience).
        
         | anonymous2324 wrote:
         | I'm a non-American :)
        
       | idontwantthis wrote:
       | I am. Full time US citizen software developer living in Asia for
       | the past 3 years. Get paid to a US bank account. Country I'm in
       | isn't good at collecting taxes.
        
         | anonymous2324 wrote:
         | This doesn't really apply to me as I'm not a US Citizen or a
         | Green Card holder, but out of curiosity. Are you on a payroll
         | in your home state and pay state + federal taxes or are you
         | paid as a contractor similar to what I do?
        
           | digianarchist wrote:
           | Most people do pay taxes in their home country.
           | 
           | You can't be a tax resident of nowhere. In Canada to become a
           | nonresident for tax purposes you need to establish tax
           | residency elsewhere.
        
             | anonymous2324 wrote:
             | Yeah that's what digital nomads do. I live long term in the
             | country I am located in so there's little doubt on where I
             | need to pay my taxes.
             | 
             | Actually for Americans the rules are bit different in that
             | Uncle Sam wants his cut even if they live overseas (over a
             | certain amount IIRC) but for the rest of us it's purely
             | residence based.
        
       | vaibhavsagar wrote:
       | Yup, I'm doing this. I was living in the US when I interviewed in
       | Feb 2020 but as an Australian citizen on an E-3 visa I had to
       | leave the country to get a new one and then the pandemic
       | happened. So far my employer has been happy to have me work
       | remotely but the timezone offset has been pretty brutal and I'm
       | only doing this because I hope to move back at some point early
       | next year.
        
       | tombert wrote:
       | I don't know if this counts, but I had to spend two weeks in
       | Juarez Mexico last month for my wife's green card interview, and
       | I spent a majority of that working for a US megacorporation.
       | We're all remote-first anyway, so most of my coworkers didn't
       | know/care about where I was located geographically. Only thing
       | that was a bit irritating for me was having to work in a
       | different time-zone.
        
         | gtirloni wrote:
         | Companies usually only care about your fiscal residence. When
         | you were away traveling, that didn't change so it's rarely a
         | problem for getting paid.
        
       | remotrq wrote:
       | I'm wondering, how is this kind of contract structured? Do they
       | say "work X hours a week, we'll pay you X" like a normal
       | employee? Or do you bill for variable hours (up to a maximum)
       | where you fill up a log? Or something else? I've only ever
       | experienced full time/part time so I'm curious.
        
       | taylorhou wrote:
       | my company has almost 50 full time in the US and 120+ full time
       | internationally. x2-3 in the next 12-18 months. hiring for pretty
       | much every possible role and willing to be creative/flexible. dm
       | me to chat!
       | 
       | apmhelp.com is our core service (think bookkeeping/maintenance
       | coordination for rental properties)
       | 
       | fyxed.com is a fintech product we're launching soon (think pipe
       | but for rental properties)
        
       | crummy wrote:
       | I do this, in NZ, for a 15ish person company. I 'contract' but my
       | contract says I get a monthly rate not hourly, and I get
       | holidays, a couple other benefits. I pay taxes myself. My work
       | sends me my 'salary' with transferwise every month.
       | 
       | That said I read about Pilot which lets you be an actual
       | employee. They provide the tax presence that so many companies
       | want to avoid. https://pilot.co/
        
         | RileyJames wrote:
         | I'm based in NZ too, how do you go with time zones?
         | 
         | I've noticed many US companies hiring remote still specify
         | employees to live within a range of time zones. And I haven't
         | seen those include NZ (+13, yes the edge of tomorrow)
         | 
         | In practice, I've found collaborating with US colleagues fine.
         | There's a 3-4 hour overlap (our morning, their end of day).
        
       | mettamage wrote:
       | Curious question: does that also mean you get US salaries between
       | $100K - $120K?
        
         | anonymous2324 wrote:
         | Currently I'm making under $100K but I realized I'm getting
         | severely underpaid. I'm currently interviewing at a bunch of
         | places offering salaries ranging between $120K on the low end
         | up to over $170K on the high end. They are all startups hence
         | this question as I was wondering if bigger organizations would
         | be worth looking into as well.
        
           | digaozao wrote:
           | How did you found these opportunities? Some network of
           | friends? Or regular stackoverflow jobs or another portal?
        
         | msbarnett wrote:
         | Yeah, I'm making above that USD, as a Canadian remotely for a
         | company in the US.
        
         | itake wrote:
         | In 2017, I had $132k USD/yr salary working in Vietnam full
         | time. I am sure you can negotiate a lower salary if you don't
         | want to earn more than $120k.
        
           | registeredcorn wrote:
           | This might be a bit personal but, honestly, what is the QoL
           | like with that level of income?
           | 
           | I've been to a few Asian nations previously and was extremely
           | impressed how well one could eat on such a small amount of
           | money. I had never seriously considered staying long-term,
           | due to complications you may be familiar with, but I would
           | imagine you can live pretty well with that kind of pay.
        
             | itake wrote:
             | I have always lived my life frugally (at the cost of QoL)
             | in all of my adventures both domestically and
             | internationally, with that said, in VN to have a more
             | "western" level of comfort, the costs equal or surpass the
             | costs in a western country.
             | 
             | Quality of goods, services, and properties are measurably
             | lower and you need to spend more to keep the life style you
             | want. There are things that we get in the USA insanely
             | cheaply, but over there its really expensive. Items like
             | Motrin, cars, electronics, and good mattresses are
             | difficult to find or measurably more expensive.
             | 
             | Just to throw a few examples, there are no Apple stores in
             | Vietnam and the Apple products sold in official apple
             | stores in Thailand or Singapore are measurably more
             | expensive due to import taxes and higher prices.
             | 
             | The home construction was low quality and always had pests
             | and mold. Even the new apartments were rushed together and
             | often never completed.
             | 
             | I loved my time there and look forward to returning, but
             | you have to compromise in both career development and life
             | style.
        
           | mettamage wrote:
           | I need to find myself a remote US job then :D
        
         | 908B64B197 wrote:
         | Yes.
         | 
         | Any company that tries to play games with CoL is a red flag, to
         | be honest.
         | 
         | It basically mean they can't attract the best everywhere (since
         | you know top performers are already working for SF level comp
         | for remote companies) so good luck competing.
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | I know somebody working in Canada, getting paid the same as
         | other seniors at an SF-based startup. It's quite a bit more
         | than that range. The lease on the startup's SF office came up
         | as the pandemic hit, so they vacated the premises and used the
         | considerable savings to hire more developers.
        
         | gtirloni wrote:
         | It depends. Some companies pay local salaries, others just keep
         | paying whatever they pay at HQ.
        
           | jbn wrote:
           | can't really do this for very long. the local country will
           | usually want to collect its own business/employment taxes on
           | employed work.
        
             | gtirloni wrote:
             | It varies by country and your fiscal status, but as long as
             | you pay taxes on your earnings, you're usually fine.
             | 
             | If HQ salary > local salary, the government just gets more
             | taxes.
        
       | ssijak wrote:
       | I'm working for a US startup remotely from Eastern Europe. From
       | my experience it is easier to find startup remote jobs and I
       | don't mind to be honest.
        
       | ases wrote:
       | I'm working for a smaller US company (hitting 100 people across
       | the whole organisation soon), as a remote employee in the UK.
       | 
       | The arangement is a third party hires me as an employee in the
       | UK, where I receive all the British employment rights (holidays,
       | etc), and I just work for the US company. This is a fairly new
       | thing for them, previously they had only taken on non-US persons
       | through contracting companies.
       | 
       | I would guess that if larger companies were going to hire abroad,
       | they would either have a local setup to manage payroll or do
       | something similar to where I am now. No idea how many are really
       | offering something like that.
        
         | lordnacho wrote:
         | What is the benefit to this? Why don't you just make your own
         | UK corp? Then you can write off a load of stuff against the
         | company, get VAT back, and decide what dividend you want to
         | get.
        
       | billbobob wrote:
       | Where do you find your contract US startup jobs? All I see is
       | full time jobs on angel list. Maybe I'm not looking in the right
       | place?
        
         | anonymous2324 wrote:
         | All jobs on AngelList are potentially contract if you're
         | outside the US. Unless they want to set up a subsidiary for you
         | (they won't) or use a global PEO (some do want to do this but
         | most are happy with a direct contract in my experience).
        
         | itake wrote:
         | I get lucky on slack sometimes.
        
       | xunn0026 wrote:
       | The higher the org the lower the chances they would accept such
       | an arrangement. Some allow remote work but expect you to be an
       | employee which becomes impossible if you are from a country where
       | they have no base so they can't legally hire you.
        
         | gtirloni wrote:
         | The pandemic created a lot more remote jobs but they often come
         | with strings attached (e.g. US only), exactly because of what
         | you said.
         | 
         | Famous example: GitHub.
        
       | zxspectrum1982 wrote:
       | I'm surprised people are now discovering Deel, Pilot, etc. The
       | so-called "professional employer organizations" have existed for
       | a long, long time.
        
       | mac01021 wrote:
       | You can work for Disney's DMED, which is a very large IT/software
       | organization. You would have to become a contractor through one
       | of the agencies they work with - "Happiest Minds" or "Globant"
       | were the two I saw used when I was there.
       | 
       | My current employer, Rigetti Computing, has I think 100-200
       | employees and has a few that are working from the UK, Australia,
       | or Canada. But I think they would have to be especially
       | interested in you to let you work from abroad as a new hire.
        
         | gtirloni wrote:
         | Their website doesnt have a list of jobs. Do you know where
         | Disney's DMED posts them? Thank you
        
           | mac01021 wrote:
           | https://jobs.disneycareers.com/search-jobs/dmed/391/1/1
        
         | paulschreiber wrote:
         | Globant was mostly low-paid low-quality folks. Probably not a
         | good fit.
        
       | halfdan wrote:
       | I have done this from 2015-2020 for two different US based
       | startups. The most recent one got acquired by an entity that has
       | a German HQ and I'm now attached to that.
       | 
       | Both startups were Bay area based, around 50-100 people in size.
       | Comp was about five to ten percent below bay area standards but I
       | was making north of $180k/yr in the end.
       | 
       | Setup was similar to yours. I was treated as a contractor. There
       | were a few things I had to do to make this legal on the German
       | side but not overly complicated.
       | 
       | Got to travel a lot (including a round the world trip in 2017
       | while working remotely) and frequent visits to the US were the
       | norm.
        
         | ilyanoskov wrote:
         | Could you please point to how to make such an arrangement legal
         | in Germany? I thought it's only allowed for 18 months to work
         | as a contractor only for one company?
         | 
         | Or please send me a brief email, I have been looking for quite
         | a while for a solution to this.
         | 
         | Thank you very much in advance.
        
           | noway_norway wrote:
           | Following this. I just started working remotely for a US
           | based company while living in Germany. Thought this was
           | perfectly fine as long as I register as a "freelancer" in
           | Germany?
        
       | icosahedron wrote:
       | We have some employees in Canada, so they're still in North
       | America, but they work internationally.
       | 
       | Actually, for us they are contractors. We only have W-2 employees
       | here in the US.
        
       | tmaly wrote:
       | I have two people in India working on my team. They are both
       | remote right now.
        
       | CubityFirst wrote:
       | Doing stuff @ Reddit via this sort of thing.
        
         | Gengar wrote:
         | I might have been an international Reddit employee also had the
         | recruiter not ghosted me when I gave times available for
         | interview!
        
       | egman_ekki wrote:
       | Maybe try Automattic if you don't mind working with WordPress,
       | PHP and JS. 1500+ people, lots of autonomy, hiring for a lot of
       | roles.
       | 
       | https://automattic.com/work-with-us/
       | 
       | https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/19/automattic-tc1/
        
       | unoti wrote:
       | I work for Microsoft in Redmond USA, and have had team members I
       | work with daily who are outside the US.
        
       | soneca wrote:
       | I am, but also on a small startup. I think any larger
       | organization will be more worried about the risks mentioned in
       | the comments of this Ask HN that I posted recently:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28898198
       | 
       | My experience is that the sweet spot is a small organization that
       | embraces global remote and don't care much about hiring
       | contractors full time, but not actively look for outside of US
       | candidates.
       | 
       | Medium to large companies neither want to establish presence in
       | other countries nor hire contractors full time.
       | 
       | Very large companies do not hire contractors full time but might
       | establish presence in a few selected countries (paying local
       | rates mostly). Stripe seems an exception that created that
       | "remote hub" that would hire anywhere.
       | 
       | Small startups that actively look for full time contractors
       | outside the US usually pay just slightly above the local market
       | rate (they are hoping to get the margin of the salary arbitrage
       | for themselves).
       | 
       | So,small startups that explicitly hire remote, but mostly
       | advertise they jobs to American audience, but are open to hire
       | remote globally. "Who is hiring" thread seems a good place to
       | find those (by filtering out all the _"Remote(US)"_ ones)
        
         | anonymous2324 wrote:
         | Looking into Stripe haha. But you're right smaller companies
         | are much more flexible. I don't think I'll have much trouble
         | getting a job at one of the smaller ones. Just wondering if I
         | should try bigger ones too.
         | 
         | Like you say the ones that cater to American audiences are
         | good. Even if it says Remote(US) if it's a smaller company then
         | you can still get a job there if you can sell yourself well.
         | You may need to be flexible with your working hours if you're
         | in a different timezone though. (I don't mind working US hours
         | but for some people this may be a dealbreaker)
        
       | meheleventyone wrote:
       | I work for a small(ish) US company here in Iceland as a full time
       | employee. And sometime prior to that I worked for Autodesk also
       | as a full time employee for a small satellite office here after a
       | startup was aquired.
        
       | mattnewport wrote:
       | We have a few people working as contractors internationally but
       | it's a bit painful for both the US company and the international
       | contractors. We're just starting to try a new approach using Deel
       | https://www.letsdeel.com/
       | 
       | It's too early to give a full endorsement of them as we're just
       | going through the process for the first couple of employees but
       | it seems promising so far and simplifies things for both the US
       | company (a 100+ employee 5 year old startup) and the employees
       | who have a simpler tax situation typically under this
       | arrangement.
        
         | necovek wrote:
         | From what I can see, their guide for contractors to set up in
         | Serbia (https://www.letsdeel.com/blog/how-to-set-up-as-an-
         | entreprene...) is outdated (2019 law changes are not taken into
         | account) and even incorrect (VAT taxation limit of 8M RSD is
         | not the same as fixed-taxation-if-total-revenue-of-less-
         | than-6M-RSD), even though it says it was written on Oct 18th
         | 2021.
         | 
         | It also does not seem to help anyone in Serbia at all:
         | basically, the article, other than being incorrect, suggests
         | the things I had to do on my own (i.e. set up a company, and it
         | has to be at least a Ltd/doo company since the start of 2020).
         | I was hoping they'd incorporate in each of their "supported
         | countries" and simply offer "regular employment".
         | 
         | Basically, what I am saying is that they might be ripping you
         | off :D
        
         | MrRiddle wrote:
         | I'm from Serbia, I've been working with US clients for a
         | decade. I'm wondering why you're not just sending Wire each
         | month and call it a day?
         | 
         | It's up to the employee to choose their tax status, they can
         | become entrepreneurs, open LLC or simply report wire transfers
         | quarterly as an individual.
        
           | necovek wrote:
           | I was mostly highlighting how LetsDeel service is not really
           | "selling much" for hires in Serbia -- I am not sure what's
           | the value add in other countries.
           | 
           | There are many ways to set up in Serbia, but for something
           | resembling actual _employment_ (which the topic is about),
           | you are basically prohibited from using an entreprenuership
           | since 2020, so you can either set up a LLC or take on a huge
           | tax burden by self-reporting taxes.
        
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