[HN Gopher] Audio tape interface revives microcassettes as stora...
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       Audio tape interface revives microcassettes as storage medium
        
       Author : rcarmo
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2021-10-20 09:16 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (hackaday.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (hackaday.com)
        
       | LesserEvil665 wrote:
       | I remember 6/7-year-old me begging my father for a tape deck to
       | use with CoCo3. He refused, saying they were too expensive.
       | 
       | Were they really in the early 90s? I doubt it. I lost interest in
       | writing basic on that thing since I couldn't save programs.
       | 
       | Anyway, I fully intend to try this out if only to close that
       | loop.
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | The "ready to use" one with the 5 pin DIN connector/adapter was
         | probably expensive.[1] Otherwise, he would have had to find an
         | adapter or fiddle making one himself. And even that would
         | require a cassette player with all the right jacks (mono in,
         | mono out, remote). They didn't all have those.
         | 
         | [1] This thing:
         | https://colorcomputerarchive.com/repo/Documents/Manuals/Hard...
         | 
         | Edit: An old ad...$59.95 Or $142 if inflation adjusted to 2021
         | from 1987.
         | 
         | http://www.trs-80.com/images/desc/desc-cat-rs-26-1208.jpg
        
         | sedatk wrote:
         | I had a similar experience with disk drives. They were too
         | expensive, so I had to stick to the built-in tape unit of my
         | Amstrad CPC464. I could save programs, which made a huge
         | difference, but tape was very limited in capability. For
         | example, I couldn't write programs running other arbitrary
         | programs, or programs working on databases. What I wrote was
         | very limited in utility, usually games. Even running an
         | assembler (which I got to hold on very late anyway) was a quite
         | complicated process on tape. Now, after reading your story, I
         | can't imagine being even without a tape. I at least managed to
         | learn BASIC and Z80 Assembly with just a tape.
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | Microcassette, despite being best known for use in answering
       | machines and voice recorders, was briefly a pre-recorded music
       | format. There was even a microcassette deck component you could
       | put in your hifi.
       | 
       | A video about it: https://youtu.be/ZZYpPlpD3ow
        
       | p1mrx wrote:
       | I wonder what the maximum bitrate of an audio cassette is, using
       | modern encoding techniques like OFDM with error correction? I
       | searched once, and saw estimates in the 25 kbps range, but no
       | usable implementation.
        
         | sprash wrote:
         | I was able to fit about 60 MB per channel on a 90 min audio
         | cassette [1]. The bias frequency of that particular deck was
         | about 60 kHz. This means bypassing the recording circuitry
         | could lead to much higher data rates.
         | 
         | 1.: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28193079
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | The sound quality of an audio cassette is at least as good, and
         | almost certainly better, than the quality of an analogue
         | telephone line. So I bet you could set a lower bound of at
         | least 33.6kbit/s, since that was as fast as telephone modems
         | went.
         | 
         | 56k modems relied on your phone line being digital after the
         | switchboard, but I would imagine that 56k should be doable as
         | well.
        
           | Const-me wrote:
           | Not sure it's directly comparable. When modem flips one bit,
           | the CRC checksum in IP packet becomes incorrect, someone
           | drops the IP packet, the condition is detected and the packet
           | is re-transmitted. This slows down things substantially but
           | user still gets their data. I think tapes need more
           | reliability because there's only 1 try.
        
           | p1mrx wrote:
           | I wouldn't automatically assume that tape is better than a
           | phone line. For instance, a phone line will always clock at 1
           | second per second, because everything runs in real time with
           | no storage.
        
             | LeoPanthera wrote:
             | I can't imagine that clock recovery would make a huge
             | amount of difference.
        
       | squarefoot wrote:
       | I did something similar in the early nineties by using the
       | venerable AM7910, an old modem chip often used in vintage
       | computer and Ham Radio gear, to make an interface to store and
       | retrieve data on tape from my Amiga 500. I used a normal cassette
       | deck for storing, but the chip was really slow at 1200 bps, even
       | for an old system like AmigaOS, and per data sheet it didn't
       | offer higher speeds, however I tried anyway to change its clock
       | frequency by testing a few Xtals in place of its 2.4576 MHz
       | standard one, and eventually settled to an old PAL color TV Xtal
       | (4.433619 MHz) that would nearly double the speed without
       | introducing errors. Good old times...
        
       | fnord77 wrote:
       | I remember data storage on regular cassette tapes was painfully
       | slow.
        
         | kabdib wrote:
         | I used audio cassette for a few years (1978-1979) on my home-
         | built Z-80 system.
         | 
         | Upgraded to a wacky cassette transport called a Phi-Deck. It
         | was faster and had automated head control and seek; you could
         | do a real file system on it. 9600 baud equivalent, for the
         | setup I used; could get 100K or so on a cassette if you were
         | patient.
         | 
         | https://bytecollector.com/dg_phideck.htm
        
       | hellbannedguy wrote:
       | Those were great little recorders. Pricy, but good. I bought one
       | from a guy at work for $190. He paid $269.00
       | 
       | They are extremely well made. It still works today.
       | 
       | I think he was trying to get our possed boss to say something
       | incriminating.
       | 
       | I didn't have the heart to tell him being a a-hole in America is
       | legal.
        
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