[HN Gopher] Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressi...
___________________________________________________________________
Worn-out nurses hit the road for better pay, stressing hospital
budgets, morale
Author : mooreds
Score : 39 points
Date : 2021-10-20 12:12 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (text.npr.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (text.npr.org)
| NoblePublius wrote:
| Sounds like a great time to fire healthcare workers who won't get
| vaccinated.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| There's likely a net positive to forcing out workers who put
| themselves, their coworkers, and their patients at risk based
| on misinformation, yes.
| Miner49er wrote:
| Isn't the solution simple? Pay nurses like 80%-100% of what
| traveling nurses make, instead of 50% or less.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| That's not how business works in 2021. You hire traveling
| nurses to suppress wages.
|
| The hospital my wife worked in merged into a big network and
| gave every RN a 25% haircut, and laid off a few key departments
| (ER most notably), replacing them with travel nurses and a
| contracted medical practice. A few exceptions were made in high
| margin lines if business.
|
| Net result? Care sucks, finances are green. They purged the
| mid-career people and now have a young and dumb workforce.
| There was a particular emphasis on hiring military wives as
| they are transient. The key thing is to stave off unions.
|
| Like any other consulting thing, they eventually purge the
| hired guns. The traveling nurse boom is a COVID thing. As COVID
| wanes, these folks will be back in the meatgrinder.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| Traveling nurses have been a thing long before COVID.
| bluedino wrote:
| Healthcare isn't expensive enough?
| brezelgoring wrote:
| Administrative overhead and corporate bonuses account for
| that far more than any nurse could ever hope to, also the
| whole insurance system too.
| pc86 wrote:
| Paying a nurse $125k instead of $80k is not going to
| appreciably increase the cost of healthcare for any
| individual patient when the radiologist makes $500k, the
| surgeon makes $750k, the charge nurse makes $200k, and you
| get billed $35 for a Tylenol.
| ThaJay wrote:
| It's not expensive because of nurse wages. It's expensive
| because of top manager wages, dividents and bonusses.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| You're assuming that hospitals wouldn't rather pay double to
| have nurses who see themselves as transient cogs in the machine
| and give few shits about anything beyond hitting the KPIs they
| need to keep getting paid.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| Aren't all workers very quickly becoming transient cogs in
| the machine?
|
| I don't know a single friend at this point on a fully staffed
| team in any field anywhere. Whether it be FAANG, startups, or
| the government, data analytics in retail or lawyers at law
| firms, there is massive churn everywhere.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| It's not a binary.
|
| Fully staffed or not people who see themselves as long term
| employees with skin in the game or as providing a service
| to their community will be resistant to implementing
| policies that screw the customer and will help customers
| ask for the things they need to ask for to not get screwed.
| Employees who see themselves as transient more readily
| implement whatever management asks without thinking.
| h2odragon wrote:
| Very well put
| MattGaiser wrote:
| That is interesting take.
|
| I would have thought that transients would be less likely
| to do that as they could more easily take other roles,
| while embedded people would have more to lose by opposing
| management. Why companies hire consultants for unpopular
| changes, as they will be leaving anyway and thus have
| less to lose.
|
| I am not sure which one is the case.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Yeah, but that's really where this article should be
| focusing.
|
| Hospitals are basically at the "We tried nothing and we are
| out of ideas!"
|
| The solution to a lot of nurse burnout is really pretty
| simple, increase their wages, hire more than the minimum of
| travel nurses so they aren't all working overtime.
| coliveira wrote:
| The capitalist oligarchy will prefer to destroy an industry
| rather than increase salaries. This is essentially what
| they did in the US (and around the world) when moving
| industry to low wage countries.
| senortumnus wrote:
| I do think there is truth in hospital systems slowly
| eroding the profession of nurse and physician to further
| cement their control over the future of health care. See
| traveler nurses and NP/PAs in hospital systems.
| adolph wrote:
| Wages are orthogonal to burnout
|
| Burnout is a psychological factor
| tomrod wrote:
| Both factors are crucial when retaining people.
| SamBam wrote:
| I think you are mostly right about this, but decent pay
| goes a long way to signaling respect, which is definitely
| a factor in burnout.
| adolph wrote:
| Likely not curative after the fact
| cogman10 wrote:
| Imagine being a programmer earning 60k. Now imagine that
| your company has a time crunch, During that time crunch
| they are expecting you to work 80+ hours a week.
|
| Now imagine that because of said crunch they say "Hmm, we
| need some contractors to speed this up." So they hire
| just enough to reduce your hours from 80 to 75.
|
| Now imagine how you'd feel learning all those contractors
| are earning $120k and with your skill set, you could to
| if you left your employer (because there's a high demand
| for devs everywhere). Not only that, but you have a lot
| more flexibility in your hours and no longer need to do
| 80+ hour weeks.
|
| What would you do?
|
| Wage is a huge factor here and the nurses leaving aren't
| necessarily leaving nursing but instead turning into
| travel nurses. This creates the vicious cycle the
| hospitals are currently experiencing.
|
| Hospitals have 2 levers to pull to fix this problem.
|
| 1. Increase wages so less nurses feel inclined to leave
| for more money. 2. Increase the number of travel nurses
| so current nurses aren't pressured into insane and
| demanding work hours.
|
| The lever they are pulling instead, is "hire just enough
| travel nurses for minimal compliance (maybe) and buy
| little caesars pizza... maybe. Then complain to media
| outlets about how lazy nurses are."
|
| The reason hospitals aren't fixing this problem is
| simple. Once they raise their nurses salaries, they will
| have a HARD time lowering them again.
| adolph wrote:
| This reads kind of like the first time said programmer
| saw the rates their company pays for contractors.
|
| At the end of the day burnout still isn't solved by pay.
| mooreds wrote:
| I don't run a hospital, but know folks who have worked in one.
| My guess is that paying someone 2x (or many someones) for a
| short period of time is easier on the long term budget than
| raising the wages of permanent employees.
|
| Feels similar to how every company seems to want senior
| developer talent, but few will pay for training new senior
| talent.
| ootsootsoots wrote:
| Yeah was reading about this the other day locally.
|
| The inflated cost of traveling nurses is used in negotiating
| new contracts.
|
| Frankly if American workers want better, they need to realize
| supply and demand applies to labor.
|
| There's no reason a surgeon should have a Ferrari while the
| nursing staff that supports them makes $70k year.
|
| It's highly skilled labor but also, imo, artificially
| constrained by our educational funding choices.
|
| All of which is politically babysat to be just so according
| to well paid economists who are trotted out to tell us
| inequality is normal because that's how it's always been.
|
| Americans made kings and robber barons again and just changed
| the words. Meanwhile petty crime is high treason.
|
| Human society as we know it was set on this path by forever
| lifers. The end game is the end times. They don't care if
| anyone survives, no one will be around to complain.
|
| Drop the worker euphemisms and call everyone people. This
| arbitrary taxonomy to satisfy political sorting is inhuman.
| mfer wrote:
| Hitting on the budget is a good point.
|
| Hospitals are often run inefficiently [1]. This leads to a
| lot of overhead costs. Many procedures in hospitals loose
| money for hospitals while others make money. Taking care of
| COVID patients typically looses a hospital money. So, where
| does the money come from to pay nurses more when much of
| their work is on patients they loose money on?
|
| [1] https://claytonchristensen.com/books/the-innovators-
| prescrip...
| akudha wrote:
| I have never been in management, so maybe I am missing
| something here. Even from a purely economic perspective,
| wouldn't it make sense to keep your existing employees happy
| than having to deal with constant turnover, unhappy workers
| etc? All I see is constant hiring (even in small teams) and
| people constantly leaving, to the point that some teams
| become completely new in just 3-4 years because of attrition.
|
| In my previous job, a lonnnnnnnnnnnnng list of items were
| pending, because they didn't have enough people to work on
| them. The mobile app hadn't been updated in 3 years, not even
| the bugs were fixed. And still the company was one of the
| most boring places I've worked, with meeting after meeting
| after meeting...
|
| How hard can it be to have individual conversations with
| employees once a quarter or something, pay them decent, and
| at least try to help them do their jobs better? All of which
| will result in more revenue for the company, no?
|
| I had a chat with a recruiter who argued that remote workers
| should be paid less. Shouldn't they be paid more (or at least
| the same as in-office workers for the same work) because the
| company is saving money on office space, electricity,
| internet and even stupid coffee and toilet paper? If the
| recruiter opens the conversation that remote workers are
| worth less, then how do they expect the candidates to take
| them seriously? This is just one example.
|
| I just don't get it. Maybe I am not management material/
| nathanaldensr wrote:
| _How hard can it be to have individual conversations with
| employees_
|
| It can be very difficult when the management and executive
| classes tend to self-select for sociopathic traits.
| david38 wrote:
| Just like that? All that money just burning a hole in the
| hospital's pocket?
|
| Tell me, at the hospital you manage, how's that policy working
| out?
| mfer wrote:
| There are a few things I've learned from the nurses I know...
|
| - Nurses, the primary caregivers in Hospitals, have been treated
| pretty poorly for a long time. Some of it is pay, some of it is
| expectations, some of it is just the way the people around them
| treat them (e.g., the way surgeons often talk to them).
|
| - Some management has gotten down right mean. I know one hospital
| that has dictated that refusing to work a mandated shift (that's
| where they keep you longer than your shift to keep working) will
| cause you to be fired. They've gone through on that already.
|
| - ICU nurses have seen the worst. In places that have had peak
| COVID it's not unusual for 9/10 people with COVID in the ICU to
| die. That takes a tole on people.
|
| - Some hospitals are giving huge bonuses to new hires. And better
| pay. There's nothing like being a senior nurse in an ICU who has
| more responsibility and higher expectations while having the new
| person next to them having just gotten a bonus and making more
| money. You might as well quit and go work at a different nearby
| hospital to get a bonus and raise.
|
| I wonder what would happen if hospitals starting doing peakon
| surveys of their people and started working to improve on things.
| wayoutthere wrote:
| > (e.g., the way surgeons often talk to them)
|
| To be fair, surgeons talk to everyone that way. I haven't met a
| surgeon who didn't talk down to other people. My theory is that
| you have to have a huge fucking ego to cut someone open and
| believe you're going to make them better.
| the_d3f4ult wrote:
| Bullshit. Very few doctors behave this way and it's generally
| any better tolerated in a healthcare workplace than in any
| other workplace. This is a media construct designed as a
| scapegoat for the many failures of the american healthcare
| system. The greatest trick corporate healthcare systems ever
| played was convincing everyone that physicians are the
| villains and not the mega-corp that's bleeding every penny
| out of healthcare.
| mfer wrote:
| Nurses working 12 hour shifts spend more time around surgeons
| than most other people do. It takes it's toll.
|
| You can be very good at what you do and confident in it
| without talking down to others, being arrogant, or treating
| others poorly. It's a cultural and character thing.
| senortumnus wrote:
| Surgeon here, always try to treat nurses with respect and
| work with them as a team member to accomplish the best care
| for the patient. Maybe it's a midwest thing.
| chucksta wrote:
| Good theory, mine was there is such little tolerance for them
| to be incorrect, so it's "what I said because I said it"
| bsder wrote:
| > I haven't met a surgeon who didn't talk down to other
| people.
|
| Then they are a shit surgeon.
|
| You can tell really good surgeons. Their nursing staff are on
| the ball and _completely_ unafraid to call out a doctor and
| the surgeon has _no problem_ with this.
|
| I went in for wrist surgery. The anesthesiologist was not the
| surgeon's normal one. He said something slightly off and all
| _4_ nurses immediately stopped him and made him correct
| himself and repeat the corrected statement _3 times_.
|
| _THAT_ was a good surgeon.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| Ego plays a part, but I think med school and residency play a
| bigger part. Surgery residency is ultra competitive and
| freaking grueling.
|
| Basically putting 10+ years of your life into being a surgeon
| ends up playing a big part in your core mindset and approach
| to life. You don't really end up being a surgeon without
| being fully committed to it.
| lmilcin wrote:
| I don't have any experience with US healthcare but I know this
| depends a lot on the country.
|
| Large part of this is that much of US healthcare is in the
| business of earning money or optimizing costs, the care being
| only side effect. As long as incentives are not right, there
| exists no practical way to fix the system, only prop it up here
| and there to eliminate worst offenses.
|
| As to salaries, I just can't imagine how it is even legal for
| nurses to do same job but being paid more because they just
| joined. I can sort of understand that you can be paid more if
| you do same job but have more experience. You get paid for
| loyalty and for the added value of your knowledge/experience
| that makes your work potentially higher quality. But being paid
| less is shady af because it exploits the nurses which have high
| incentive to stay at one place if only to keep the commute to
| the hospital. If you have family you can't just move to
| somewhere else every 2-3 years just to keep your salary
| competitive.
|
| As to verbal treatment, I understand that the problem is that
| if you are a good surgeon, you will be hired no matter how mean
| you are toward your coworkers.
|
| In large companies I have worked for (mainly financial) this is
| not tolerated (as much). You can be great senior developer or
| tech lead, but if you are mean to junior developers you are
| likely going to be reprimanded and then dismissed if you
| continue.
| mfer wrote:
| > Large part of this is that much of US healthcare is in the
| business of earning money or optimizing costs, the care being
| only side effect.
|
| ICUs are not optimized. Hospitals in general are not
| optimized in the US. A lot of the cost issue is in
| inefficiency. Many ICU patients cause a hospital to loose
| money.
|
| > As to salaries, I just can't imagine how it is even legal
| for nurses to do same job but being paid more because they
| just joined...
|
| Salary is what ever a company decides to pay a person. There
| are all kinds of ups and downs. If you're running financially
| inefficiently, as most US hospitals are, then you need to
| limit when you pay people more.
|
| When US hospitals have seen a majority of their patients as
| COVID patients the loss they were talking about lead to
| bankruptcy speculations.
|
| While the predictions weren't right (in terms of timing)
| there is a lot of good context in
| https://claytonchristensen.com/books/the-innovators-
| prescrip...
| TheCapn wrote:
| Canadian speaking, wife is ICU RN. Everything you've said is
| spot on, but there's always more to add. Nurses get assaulted
| pretty much daily. It's such a problem, management basically
| said it's not worth reporting because nothing is going to be
| done.
|
| The largest issue is the chronically understaffed units. The
| burnout that results from having double the normal patient load
| makes everyone cranky and the team atmosphere breaks down. In
| better managed units the nurses are all willing to pitch in,
| help with workload or take over so you can have a break. In
| units that are suffering, everyone starts looking out for #1
| and that whole system breaks down. People start scheming and
| creating cliques among themselves so if you're not with the
| "in" crowd on a shift you can get royally screwed... the
| animosity just grows.
|
| My wife has had coworkers commit suicide. There's been
| countless nurses straight up quitting, whether to retire or to
| take up contract work south of the border (the stories of how
| much they're making filter back through and more nurses start
| going that direction). Personally, my wife was forced to go on
| early mat leave because when she told management she will not
| be able to be primary on COVID patients. Management said
| goodbye... My assumption is the union would not allow nurses to
| create such demands (even with proper doctors notes and
| accommodation) but they would rather lose a nurse entirely than
| deal with accommodations in an unprecedented time.
|
| I've spoken with her multiple times and ultimately I think a
| lot of their issues stem from being unable to shift their
| hiring/onboarding practices. As an Engineer, I start as Junior.
| I get jobs designated for Junior Engineers, and I work
| alongside the Seniors to pick up skills and craft.
|
| As an RN she's fighting with people 25 years her senior for a
| position. She was out of school working casual shifts for 5
| years before getting a temporary position, and longer after to
| get the permanent job. But even then, she's competing with the
| senior nurses for the same shifts. They _aren 't_ equal in
| skill, but they're treated that way, and the seniors gobble up
| everything they can until they run out and crash.
| _pmf_ wrote:
| Maybe going from being labelled as a hero to "get vaccinated or
| you're a threat to public health" is not something that sits very
| well with people.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Well, sure.
|
| A war hero becomes a bad guy if they keep shooting after the
| enemy surrenders, too. Context matters.
| wayoutthere wrote:
| Vaccines as a job requirement are nothing new and I have no
| pity for people who have been fired as a result. Cry me a
| fucking river, you've had to have them for decades to send your
| kid to public school.
|
| Honestly if they don't believe in vaccines, I question their
| competency as a nurse and do not want them touching me. I as a
| patient should have the choice to manage my own risk level.
| These nurses can go find another job where they're not exposing
| already sick patients to a deadly virus, because IMO they're
| not qualified to be nurses.
| josh_today wrote:
| Could this also be a result of forced vaccinations on healthcare
| workers (who were on the front lines for us early in the
| pandemic) who then move to states without mandates.
| clarge1120 wrote:
| This is a valid question that does appear politically
| motivated. But, the downvoting does appear politically
| motivated.
|
| If we look at the from-state/to-state patterns, we may see
| evidence, one way or the other, that vaccine mandates cause
| healthcare workers to change jobs. We may see that the mandates
| do not cause any significant change. Any significant change
| (15% or more) in the number of healthcare workers can result in
| a change in healthcare quality from one state to another. If
| quality of healthcare changes significantly (positively or
| negatively) in a state, due to vaccine mandates, I want to
| know: especially if it is in my state.
| rsj_hn wrote:
| You are not gonna get this type of data until years later, if
| ever. We don't have realtime regional data that is
| comprehensive, we have local anecdotes and then national data
| without regional breakdowns.
|
| National data _with_ regional breakdowns always lags by quite
| a bit, and unless there is institutional demand for such
| data, it just wont be collected at all.
|
| One possibility is to look at BLS employment data by regions,
| but it's still really tricky to tease these types of effects
| out of that.
| kasey_junk wrote:
| The example was a nurse who moved to California.
|
| Pay, as the article states, seems to be a better explanation
| than a political boogeyman.
| LMYahooTFY wrote:
| Nurses were on strike in Texas?
|
| How is a mandate that some are against a 'boogeyman'? Is a
| law requiring employers to provide health insurance a
| 'boogeyman'?
|
| These are simple things that obviously exist. And one nurse
| moving doesn't indicate much of anything.
| cabbageoverload wrote:
| Do you have information that supports this theory or is it just
| a guess?
| captnObvious wrote:
| Worked in hospitals for years. The day my flu vaccine expired
| I had to go get another or I would be in violation of my
| contract. Has been like that for decades.
| lostmsu wrote:
| Have you ever seen people quitting over that?
| clarge1120 wrote:
| Does every question have to be supported by verifiable
| information, or is it just an offhand question?
| KittenInABox wrote:
| The number of people who leave because of vaccine mandates are
| a few percentage points. It's been borne out again and again as
| mandates are put in effect that the vast majority end up
| complying and only a few percentage points end up leaving from
| them. This is a much bigger phenomenon related to how hospital
| administration cuts nursing to the bone and the lack of
| organized labor pushing for safer standards of work and better
| working conditions.
| politician wrote:
| Wait, there isn't union for nurses?!
| ceejayoz wrote:
| There are nursing unions. Not every facility is unionized.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| The mandate is Federal - any facility that takes Medicaid or
| Medicare is subject to it. That's pretty much everything except
| a few small private practices. Traveling nurses will almost
| always be required to be vaccinated.
| bluedino wrote:
| They were among the first to be required
| adolph wrote:
| Apparently the mandate is in progress and doesn't yet exist:
|
| _A CMS spokesperson told Fierce Healthcare that the agency
| is currently in the active rule-making process and cannot
| comment on any specifics of the pending healthcare provider
| regulations but did note that there will be a 60-day comment
| period immediately following its publication in the Federal
| Register._
|
| https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/hospitals/conflicting-
| feder...
| MattGaiser wrote:
| AFAIK, mandatory vaccinations for healthcare workers aren't
| new.
| StanislavPetrov wrote:
| One of the issues is that in the USA (as opposed to Europe
| and other countries that prioritize science over politics)
| there are no exemptions for people who have recovered from
| covid and have natural immunity, which has shown to be more
| effective than the vaccine.
| fidesomnes wrote:
| FWIW, experimental gene therapy's mandated by emergency use
| authorization only are.
| benjaminwootton wrote:
| Amazing how even raising this as a question gets you downvoted.
|
| Yes, I'm sure it's a factor, and needlessly so considering the
| vaccine seems to have a negligible effect on transmission.
|
| Prepared for my own downvotes after sharing some particularly
| uncomfortable truths.
| blacktriangle wrote:
| I love how you both acknowledge that health care workers
| quitting over forced vaccination is an issue while
| immediately dismissing their actual experience of having
| worked through both pre and post vaccine covid world and
| first hand seeing the impact of mass vacination.
|
| If enough health care workers are willing to walk away from
| their jobs rather than take a vaccine, maybe you should take
| their observations seriously?
| ceejayoz wrote:
| > If enough health care workers are willing to walk away
| from their jobs rather than take a vaccine, maybe you
| should take their observations seriously?
|
| If you value their opinions in that way, you should get the
| vaccine.
|
| https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-
| sur...
|
| "The American Medical Association (AMA) today released a
| new survey (PDF) among practicing physicians that shows
| more than 96 percent of surveyed U.S. physicians have been
| fully vaccinated for COVID-19, with no significant
| difference in vaccination rates across regions. Of the
| physicians who are not yet vaccinated, an additional 45
| percent do plan to get vaccinated."
| ceejayoz wrote:
| > Amazing how even raising this as a question gets you
| downvoted.
|
| That's because it's readily debunked. Nurses largely can't
| evade the vaccine mandates by moving; virtually all
| healthcare facilities are subject to the _Federal_ vaccine
| mandate.
|
| > Yes, I'm sure it's a factor, and needlessly so considering
| the vaccine seems to have a negligible effect on
| transmission.
|
| That doesn't seem to be true.
|
| https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-
| people...
|
| "Both vaccines reduced transmission, although they were more
| effective against the alpha variant compared to the delta
| variant. When infected with the delta variant, a given
| contact was 65 percent less likely to test positive if the
| person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated
| with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. With AstraZeneca, a
| given contact was 36 percent less likely to test positive if
| the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully
| vaccinated."
| clarge1120 wrote:
| That's not why the question is downvoted. One can ask a
| question without the Achewallie crew dropping in with a
| wall of words.
| pc86 wrote:
| The vaccine does reduce transmissibility. From the CDC:
| "Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons
| potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in
| unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are
| needed."[0] and Delta is more transmissible than "regular"
| COVID for the vaccinated (and I think in general).
|
| But the primary benefit of the vaccine is to reduce the
| burden on the healthcare system. The vast majority (mid-to-
| high-90%s) of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated. It
| stands to reason that the more people running around without
| being vaccinated, the more people will get hospitalized. At a
| certain point, death is just a percentage of hospitalization,
| especially as you have places without beds that have to just
| turn people away. So fewer vaccines directly correlates to
| more deaths.
|
| Speaking personally now, I don't care if people don't want to
| get vaccinated. I think it's idiotic, the vaccine is FDA
| approved now, hundreds of millions of people have gotten it
| and side effects are as rare or rarer than any other vaccine.
| But if you work with the public, especially in public health,
| schools, etc., there is a list of required vaccinations
| multiple pages long. Adding one more to the list isn't an
| encroachment on anyone's civil liberties, and you're free to
| move elsewhere, but that's not what's happening here.
|
| [0]
| https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-
| br...
| mehphp wrote:
| I'm not downvoting you, just pointing out that transmission
| isn't the only reason to be vaccinated in a hospital setting.
|
| Hospital systems are already overwhelmed, so having
| vaccinated staff reduces the amount of staff that have to
| miss shifts because they are dealing with covid symptoms.
|
| Vaccines reduce symptoms, death and hospitalizations from
| covid complications. It's amazing to me that we have hospital
| staff that would rather listen to the Joe Rogans of the world
| than to the science they supposedly learned about in college.
| clarge1120 wrote:
| Not only will your comment be downvoted, it will be
| relentlessly questioned for veracity, as if asking a question
| required verifiable links from approved sources.
| hikerclimber1 wrote:
| That's why the government should have healthcare for all like
| Europe and ever other advanced economy.
| avs733 wrote:
| "free market exists for employees as well as businesses,
| businesses concerned"
|
| I found myself recently listening to a podcast about the teacher
| shortage. Something like 20% of first year teachers leave the
| profession. It costs around $20k to replace a teacher. The
| average teacher starting salary is $41k. If you could get
| teachers to stay by (1) treating them with respect, (2)
| administrators having their back, and (3) raising that to $46k,
| more than 10% of pay, how many would stay for at least five
| years? The first two cost nothing, and if they stay more than 4
| years you have entirely recouped the cost of replacing them every
| year.
| JanisL wrote:
| I find it a bit depressing that the "you need to change jobs to
| get raises" dynamic is being seen in hospitals now as well.
| tomrod wrote:
| Feels like nursing is being pushed into the gig economy.
| infecto wrote:
| Take it with a grain of salt but I have seen a number of
| conversations about how hospital groups are applying raises.
| They take the bottom pay and they apply some dollar amount per
| year worked/experience. Seems to be wiping out more experienced
| employees raises.
|
| https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6267377
| pc86 wrote:
| Changing jobs to get a bigger raise has been the standard in
| every industry for a long time.
| avs733 wrote:
| it's not a dynamic it is propaganda designed to delegitimize
| concerns about working conditions.
|
| Labor is a form of capital when there is not enough labor to go
| around - or when labor can be more easily relocated.
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