[HN Gopher] The guide to San Francisco crime data
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       The guide to San Francisco crime data
        
       Author : danso
       Score  : 16 points
       Date   : 2021-10-19 20:59 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sfchronicle.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sfchronicle.com)
        
       | nimbius wrote:
       | https://archive.md/CmYPj
        
       | bmaisonp wrote:
       | The data is one thing, but what about factoring in a prevailing
       | feeling that nothing will be done about crimes like smash and
       | grab? Why report if you have no confidence that it'll even be
       | taken seriously. Further, I've read more than a few stories of
       | people trying to report something only to be actively discouraged
       | by the officer they're talking to.
        
         | Fezzik wrote:
         | If the smash and grab involves anything of value the only way
         | to get insurance to cover the loss is with a police report. So
         | there is a (perverse?) incentive to make sure the report is
         | filed even if nothing is done by law enforcement. For that
         | reason I would expect that data to be somewhat accurate.
        
           | nathanvanfleet wrote:
           | Why is it perverse to file a police report so you can file
           | insurance? Why is it perverse to file a police report, even
           | to just make sure that crime statistics are accurate?
        
             | Fezzik wrote:
             | I was more intending to say it is unfortunate that one
             | needs to make a police report that will likely lead to no
             | action on the part of law enforcement to make an insurance
             | claim. Perverse was definitely not the best word choice.
        
           | BobbyJo wrote:
           | Does car insurance cover items stolen out of a car?
        
             | RC_ITR wrote:
             | Generally, leaving something in your car is treated as akin
             | to leaving something in a locked box outside. If you love
             | it, don't leave it.
             | 
             | Other areas with a...ahem...more positive view toward cars
             | spend a significant amount of resources to make it
             | relatively safe to leave things in your car, but that's not
             | San Francisco's priority, for better or worse (it's one of
             | the weird places where the power brokers are either on a
             | bike, in an Uber, on Muni, or being chauffeured privately).
        
             | stevenicr wrote:
             | Some years ago an associate had reported theft of 500 CDs
             | plus some other things to his car insurance company. They
             | were going to cover it all.
             | 
             | Then they had another phone call where he asked how fast he
             | could get the money, as he needed to replace the CDs before
             | he could return to work.
             | 
             | The quick witted agent said something like 'oh so these CDs
             | that were stolen were for your work?" - He replied yes.
             | Claim was then denied - his policy was not a commercial
             | policy.
             | 
             | Don't recall the insurance co.
        
             | anonAndOn wrote:
             | Only if it's part of the car, otherwise it's covered under
             | homeowner's insurance.
        
             | finfinfin wrote:
             | Home renters insurance often covers that.
        
             | desmosxxx wrote:
             | typically no. homeowners might, but it's rarely worth it to
             | make a claim. no clue what OP is talking about.
        
           | lbwtaylor wrote:
           | There are a lot of people for whom this isn't the case: - car
           | owners/homeowners whose deductible is higher than the amount
           | stolen, or who worry about higher future insurance rates by
           | making a claim that is mostly eaten by the deductible - folks
           | who don't have insurance, like students whose laptops are
           | stolen in cafes - international visitors - other tourists who
           | don't realize they need a police report to get insurance
           | coverage, or who don't have insurance - stores like Walgreens
           | who presumably self-insure against theft. I am not an expert,
           | but I would assume most retail self-insures against theft
           | (i.e. does not carry insurance for petty theft). Interested
           | to know if folks think that isn't the case.
           | 
           | I think the data is totally inaccurate. In other places I
           | have lived, I would make a policy report about any crime,
           | expecting the report to generate some good. I wouldn't bother
           | in SF, unless, as you mention, I really expected to file an
           | insurance claim.
        
           | wahern wrote:
           | Late last year I watched someone swipe an entire shelf of
           | cosmetics/facial products from a downtown Walgreens and
           | saunter out while the clerk yelled at her, "You must feel
           | great about yourself!" And, no, this wasn't a homeless person
           | or drug addict, AFAICT, just a well-groomed 20-something
           | young woman who jumped into a car waiting for her outside.
           | 
           | That Walgreens employee told me that nothing happens. No
           | police report. Nothing except, presumably, a note to
           | corporate. Her sentiments were echoed by another employee at
           | the time. And both explained how much worse things have
           | gotten. They were incredibly pissed because they felt so
           | utterly helpless.
           | 
           | While this was last year, it was at a Walgreens that I've
           | been frequenting for years, and from what I gather from some
           | of the chattier employees, things are still pretty bad, and
           | altogether definitely much worse than before COVID. They have
           | a security guard on duty more often now, but they also have
           | significantly reduced hours.
           | 
           | I find it odd that people expect Walgreens to open up their
           | books to _prove_ the increased theft. In other contexts that
           | 's called blaming the victim. And why should I care if
           | Walgreens is taking the opportunity to downsize at the same
           | time? That's the epitome of whataboutism. But in any event,
           | AFAICT, Walgreens and Target _have_ been privately more
           | transparent with some of the local politicians. Public
           | transparency would just be a lose-lose from the perspective
           | of these large corporations, especially in the current media
           | environment where left wing social activists will blame them
           | regardless ( "Oh, look at how many _millions_ they 've been
           | extracting from our community!") while the right wing will
           | try to further make martyrs out of them--theft
           | notwithstanding, not the kind of public persona these
           | companies want.
           | 
           | Regarding insurance, I wouldn't be surprised if Walgreens and
           | Target self-insure in situations like this. What I _do_ know
           | is that after a spate of burglaries along the commercial
           | strip in my Outer Richmond neighborhood, the local business
           | association (the president is the owner of a restaurant we
           | frequent, and we 're on some of her mailing lists) ran a
           | funding drive to help those businesses recover. The
           | implication seemed to be that either the businesses lacked
           | the necessary insurance coverage altogether, or it fell short
           | of what they needed. Which wouldn't at all be surprising to
           | me. (Also wouldn't be surprising if not every business filed
           | a police report. When nearly every business on both sides of
           | the street, up-and-down three+ blocks is burgled in the span
           | of two weeks, what would be the point? Even an insurer might
           | not even care at that point; it'd be like asking each and
           | every claimant to prove an earthquake or hurricane.)
        
         | S_A_P wrote:
         | I think this is a great point. As I understand the situation
         | the police won't bother with sub 1000 crime so I think they are
         | way less likely to get a call or statistics for these sorts of
         | crime. Maybe if we turn what's left of the war on drugs into a
         | mental health project then we can eliminate some of this.
         | Doesn't seem like there are any easy answers though.
        
           | robmiller wrote:
           | One problem is that a stolen iPhone is a >$1000 crime, in
           | fact it passes the $950 threshold to be a felony in
           | California[1]. Police don't have the resources to deal with
           | every stolen phone.
           | 
           | When iPhones were new, my cousin was a police officer in a
           | high school. Every time a kid stole an iPhone it was a felony
           | on their juvenile record, and no one wanted that.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-
           | def...
        
       | justinzollars wrote:
       | This data is wrong. Crime is not down. Crime is not flat. Crime
       | is up. The city is on track to lose 1,000 people to O.D. and
       | dealers are free to deal. Someone literally died outside of my
       | apartment last year. Have you gone shopping lately in SF?
       | Everything is behind plastic, including toothpaste, or anything
       | for that matter. Stores are closing. Business is voting with its
       | feet. We can redefine crime, we can refuse to prosecute it, but
       | we can not escape its deleterious effects.
       | 
       | Recall Chesa!
       | 
       | https://www.safersfwithoutboudin.com/
        
         | finfinfin wrote:
         | It's an incredibly perverse tactic: reclassify crime,
         | disincentive people from reporting it, disempower police from
         | dealing with it... and then tout this as a reduction in crime
         | levels and a win. Pathetic.
        
           | m0llusk wrote:
           | That is an unreasonably cynical take on what is happening.
           | Reporting and tracking is always imperfect, but just to point
           | out one improvement the 311 system greatly improved
           | reporting. Getting the most out of police without giving into
           | oppression is never simple, and our incarceration spree has
           | gone beyond what we can actually afford. Sitting back and
           | being angry and playing blame games is not going to get us
           | out of this.
        
           | skulk wrote:
           | I think HBO made a 5-season show about this, quite popular,
           | had a name like "the string" or "rope" or something.
        
             | justinlink wrote:
             | The Wire. Ok, I'm actually curious did you really not
             | remember the name but the did know the number of seasons,
             | and it was something like rope/string?
        
       | throwaway879080 wrote:
       | someone got really worried about the "optics" of Wallgreens
       | closing shop
        
       | Bostonian wrote:
       | "Williams, the Montclair State criminologist, added that all law
       | enforcement data is racially biased in two major ways. First,
       | police disproportionately arrest people of color, especially
       | Black people."
       | 
       | This by itself does not establish bias. The question is whether a
       | black person committing a crime is more likely to be arrested
       | than a non-black person committing the same crime.
        
       | tlogan wrote:
       | The number of criminals in SF is pretty much the same (and this
       | data pretty much shows it). But number of tourists and
       | opportunities (open bars, restaurants, drunken people, Bart
       | riders, rental cars) is way down thus it feels like crimes are
       | up.
        
         | topspin wrote:
         | I see. So SF is missing it's normal population of crime victims
         | and so locals are being victimized harder. I wonder if the fact
         | that normally some large share of this burden is not
         | experienced by locals accounts for the degree of their
         | indifference to it.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-19 23:01 UTC)