[HN Gopher] The guide to San Francisco crime data
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The guide to San Francisco crime data
Author : danso
Score : 16 points
Date : 2021-10-19 20:59 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sfchronicle.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sfchronicle.com)
| nimbius wrote:
| https://archive.md/CmYPj
| bmaisonp wrote:
| The data is one thing, but what about factoring in a prevailing
| feeling that nothing will be done about crimes like smash and
| grab? Why report if you have no confidence that it'll even be
| taken seriously. Further, I've read more than a few stories of
| people trying to report something only to be actively discouraged
| by the officer they're talking to.
| Fezzik wrote:
| If the smash and grab involves anything of value the only way
| to get insurance to cover the loss is with a police report. So
| there is a (perverse?) incentive to make sure the report is
| filed even if nothing is done by law enforcement. For that
| reason I would expect that data to be somewhat accurate.
| nathanvanfleet wrote:
| Why is it perverse to file a police report so you can file
| insurance? Why is it perverse to file a police report, even
| to just make sure that crime statistics are accurate?
| Fezzik wrote:
| I was more intending to say it is unfortunate that one
| needs to make a police report that will likely lead to no
| action on the part of law enforcement to make an insurance
| claim. Perverse was definitely not the best word choice.
| BobbyJo wrote:
| Does car insurance cover items stolen out of a car?
| RC_ITR wrote:
| Generally, leaving something in your car is treated as akin
| to leaving something in a locked box outside. If you love
| it, don't leave it.
|
| Other areas with a...ahem...more positive view toward cars
| spend a significant amount of resources to make it
| relatively safe to leave things in your car, but that's not
| San Francisco's priority, for better or worse (it's one of
| the weird places where the power brokers are either on a
| bike, in an Uber, on Muni, or being chauffeured privately).
| stevenicr wrote:
| Some years ago an associate had reported theft of 500 CDs
| plus some other things to his car insurance company. They
| were going to cover it all.
|
| Then they had another phone call where he asked how fast he
| could get the money, as he needed to replace the CDs before
| he could return to work.
|
| The quick witted agent said something like 'oh so these CDs
| that were stolen were for your work?" - He replied yes.
| Claim was then denied - his policy was not a commercial
| policy.
|
| Don't recall the insurance co.
| anonAndOn wrote:
| Only if it's part of the car, otherwise it's covered under
| homeowner's insurance.
| finfinfin wrote:
| Home renters insurance often covers that.
| desmosxxx wrote:
| typically no. homeowners might, but it's rarely worth it to
| make a claim. no clue what OP is talking about.
| lbwtaylor wrote:
| There are a lot of people for whom this isn't the case: - car
| owners/homeowners whose deductible is higher than the amount
| stolen, or who worry about higher future insurance rates by
| making a claim that is mostly eaten by the deductible - folks
| who don't have insurance, like students whose laptops are
| stolen in cafes - international visitors - other tourists who
| don't realize they need a police report to get insurance
| coverage, or who don't have insurance - stores like Walgreens
| who presumably self-insure against theft. I am not an expert,
| but I would assume most retail self-insures against theft
| (i.e. does not carry insurance for petty theft). Interested
| to know if folks think that isn't the case.
|
| I think the data is totally inaccurate. In other places I
| have lived, I would make a policy report about any crime,
| expecting the report to generate some good. I wouldn't bother
| in SF, unless, as you mention, I really expected to file an
| insurance claim.
| wahern wrote:
| Late last year I watched someone swipe an entire shelf of
| cosmetics/facial products from a downtown Walgreens and
| saunter out while the clerk yelled at her, "You must feel
| great about yourself!" And, no, this wasn't a homeless person
| or drug addict, AFAICT, just a well-groomed 20-something
| young woman who jumped into a car waiting for her outside.
|
| That Walgreens employee told me that nothing happens. No
| police report. Nothing except, presumably, a note to
| corporate. Her sentiments were echoed by another employee at
| the time. And both explained how much worse things have
| gotten. They were incredibly pissed because they felt so
| utterly helpless.
|
| While this was last year, it was at a Walgreens that I've
| been frequenting for years, and from what I gather from some
| of the chattier employees, things are still pretty bad, and
| altogether definitely much worse than before COVID. They have
| a security guard on duty more often now, but they also have
| significantly reduced hours.
|
| I find it odd that people expect Walgreens to open up their
| books to _prove_ the increased theft. In other contexts that
| 's called blaming the victim. And why should I care if
| Walgreens is taking the opportunity to downsize at the same
| time? That's the epitome of whataboutism. But in any event,
| AFAICT, Walgreens and Target _have_ been privately more
| transparent with some of the local politicians. Public
| transparency would just be a lose-lose from the perspective
| of these large corporations, especially in the current media
| environment where left wing social activists will blame them
| regardless ( "Oh, look at how many _millions_ they 've been
| extracting from our community!") while the right wing will
| try to further make martyrs out of them--theft
| notwithstanding, not the kind of public persona these
| companies want.
|
| Regarding insurance, I wouldn't be surprised if Walgreens and
| Target self-insure in situations like this. What I _do_ know
| is that after a spate of burglaries along the commercial
| strip in my Outer Richmond neighborhood, the local business
| association (the president is the owner of a restaurant we
| frequent, and we 're on some of her mailing lists) ran a
| funding drive to help those businesses recover. The
| implication seemed to be that either the businesses lacked
| the necessary insurance coverage altogether, or it fell short
| of what they needed. Which wouldn't at all be surprising to
| me. (Also wouldn't be surprising if not every business filed
| a police report. When nearly every business on both sides of
| the street, up-and-down three+ blocks is burgled in the span
| of two weeks, what would be the point? Even an insurer might
| not even care at that point; it'd be like asking each and
| every claimant to prove an earthquake or hurricane.)
| S_A_P wrote:
| I think this is a great point. As I understand the situation
| the police won't bother with sub 1000 crime so I think they are
| way less likely to get a call or statistics for these sorts of
| crime. Maybe if we turn what's left of the war on drugs into a
| mental health project then we can eliminate some of this.
| Doesn't seem like there are any easy answers though.
| robmiller wrote:
| One problem is that a stolen iPhone is a >$1000 crime, in
| fact it passes the $950 threshold to be a felony in
| California[1]. Police don't have the resources to deal with
| every stolen phone.
|
| When iPhones were new, my cousin was a police officer in a
| high school. Every time a kid stole an iPhone it was a felony
| on their juvenile record, and no one wanted that.
|
| [1] https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-
| def...
| justinzollars wrote:
| This data is wrong. Crime is not down. Crime is not flat. Crime
| is up. The city is on track to lose 1,000 people to O.D. and
| dealers are free to deal. Someone literally died outside of my
| apartment last year. Have you gone shopping lately in SF?
| Everything is behind plastic, including toothpaste, or anything
| for that matter. Stores are closing. Business is voting with its
| feet. We can redefine crime, we can refuse to prosecute it, but
| we can not escape its deleterious effects.
|
| Recall Chesa!
|
| https://www.safersfwithoutboudin.com/
| finfinfin wrote:
| It's an incredibly perverse tactic: reclassify crime,
| disincentive people from reporting it, disempower police from
| dealing with it... and then tout this as a reduction in crime
| levels and a win. Pathetic.
| m0llusk wrote:
| That is an unreasonably cynical take on what is happening.
| Reporting and tracking is always imperfect, but just to point
| out one improvement the 311 system greatly improved
| reporting. Getting the most out of police without giving into
| oppression is never simple, and our incarceration spree has
| gone beyond what we can actually afford. Sitting back and
| being angry and playing blame games is not going to get us
| out of this.
| skulk wrote:
| I think HBO made a 5-season show about this, quite popular,
| had a name like "the string" or "rope" or something.
| justinlink wrote:
| The Wire. Ok, I'm actually curious did you really not
| remember the name but the did know the number of seasons,
| and it was something like rope/string?
| throwaway879080 wrote:
| someone got really worried about the "optics" of Wallgreens
| closing shop
| Bostonian wrote:
| "Williams, the Montclair State criminologist, added that all law
| enforcement data is racially biased in two major ways. First,
| police disproportionately arrest people of color, especially
| Black people."
|
| This by itself does not establish bias. The question is whether a
| black person committing a crime is more likely to be arrested
| than a non-black person committing the same crime.
| tlogan wrote:
| The number of criminals in SF is pretty much the same (and this
| data pretty much shows it). But number of tourists and
| opportunities (open bars, restaurants, drunken people, Bart
| riders, rental cars) is way down thus it feels like crimes are
| up.
| topspin wrote:
| I see. So SF is missing it's normal population of crime victims
| and so locals are being victimized harder. I wonder if the fact
| that normally some large share of this burden is not
| experienced by locals accounts for the degree of their
| indifference to it.
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(page generated 2021-10-19 23:01 UTC)