[HN Gopher] Drone operator will try to rescue dogs from Spanish ...
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Drone operator will try to rescue dogs from Spanish volcano
Author : ClosedPistachio
Score : 134 points
Date : 2021-10-19 17:19 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
| kodah wrote:
| Honestly, these kinds of stories make me proud of humanity.
| esel2k wrote:
| I think the 4minutes will be very hard. But since the limiting
| factor is the battery and the dog probably not cooperating, why
| not first fly a solar panel (to charge the drone) or an unpowered
| trap (to give enough time to catch the dog) to allow to rerisk
| the limitations...
| foobarbecue wrote:
| Good idea. I'm not sure why drone charging stations with auto
| landing pads aren't a commerically sold product yet. I've seen
| a lot of implementations in masters theses and stuff. If your
| robot vaccum can do it, your drone can do it.
| dymk wrote:
| Flying in a solar panel along with a system that can connect
| itself to the drone autonomously sounds very expensive (does
| such a system exist?). Or is the idea to put a solar panel on
| the drone, and then have it land and charge for a while?
|
| Something like a big raccoon trap is probably a good idea -
| perhaps they're running up against weight limits. Those traps
| are pretty heavy.
| tyingq wrote:
| A deep trash can with some meat glued to the bottom would
| probably work, with the drone tied to something near the open
| top. It would fall on its side when set down, and trap the
| dog when lifted. Assuming there's a way to lift it quickly
| enough.
|
| I suppose dropping a trap, and coming back later is a better
| idea, but it would use a lot of the 20kg weight budget.
| LoriP wrote:
| Poor dogs will be terrified but got to hope the best for them. It
| feels like a tall order though, in and out in 8 minutes... Not
| sure I can watch tbh
| [deleted]
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| Just wondering: Would this be something for somebody with one of
| the new jetpacks?
| mmaunder wrote:
| They should drop a trap with food if the dogs are still
| ambulatory. Avoids having to hover and make multiple trap
| attempts, and risk running out of power in flight. It's also
| easier to pick up a trap with a dog in it than trap a dog
| terrified of the giant buzzing thing above them. And it ensures
| they don't half-net a dog only to have it fall out en-route.
| elihu wrote:
| I think that's basically their plan. In order for it to work,
| they need each dog to voluntarily enter the net.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| I'm imagining three skeptical dogs. One cautiously enters the
| net. The other dogs watch as the first is lifted and flown
| away. I wonder what the other two dogs would think then.
| Hopefully they'd see that anywhere else is better than where
| they've been stuck. And I guess drones have been dropping
| food so they would have at least some positive experience
| with drones in the past.
| klipt wrote:
| Relevant PBF? https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-jubilee/
| junon wrote:
| The article doesn't mention any way to follow this. Anyone have
| any idea?
| ccsalvesen wrote:
| Twitter and google translate:
| https://mobile.twitter.com/aerocamaras
| entropie wrote:
| We just imported such a dog from spain from a rescue agency to
| find a new owner for the dog in germany (thats the most easy
| part, I guess). Otherwise they are euthanized. Its a Podenco mix,
| the same type of dog as seen on the pictures.
|
| I really hope they can rescue them but I fear these dogs will it
| not make easy to catch them with a net and even more hard to fly
| them out because I bet they will try to free them self.
| INTPenis wrote:
| This seems like a bad idea. Are they hurting? Can't they just
| keep flying in food and water?
|
| If they fall they're dead, if they get tangled in the net they
| might be dead.
| poopsmithe wrote:
| Yay! I am cheering them on.
|
| I believe I found Aerocameras youtube channel, which also
| contains links to website, Instagram, Facebook, and Linkedin
|
| https://www.youtube.com/user/dreamsfactorysl
| hedgehog wrote:
| This appears to be the drone they're using:
|
| https://www.dji.com/mobile/t20/specs
|
| I'm not sure how to calculate the max payload, it looks like
| maybe 20kg.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| steerable dirigible, like the goodyear blimp, with suspended
| cable and basket?
| gridspy wrote:
| It would crash.
|
| A dirigible requires a temperature difference between the
| ambient (surrounding) air and the air inside the lift bladder.
| Or the same temperature but different density.
|
| The heat of the lava would create an area of lower air density
| which would result in a significant loss of lift as it crosses.
|
| I guess you could compensate with a high altitude crossing, but
| it still sounds dangerous.
| mikestew wrote:
| If the heat is intense enough to damage helicopter blades, I
| question how well a big bag of gas is going to cope.
| NikolaeVarius wrote:
| What the hell would this accomplish
| sp332 wrote:
| Improve range, dwell time, carrying capacity, and noise
| levels.
| TheDudeMan wrote:
| Why not leave them there and continue to feed and water them?
| onychomys wrote:
| The eruption is continuing and is often quite severe, I assume
| there's no guarantee that the place they are will stay safe for
| long.
| ClosedPistachio wrote:
| https://archive.md/fjkXQ
| sergiotapia wrote:
| Is a helicopter out of the question?
| vient wrote:
| Have you opened the link?
|
| > Helicopters are banned from flying to the area because of hot
| gas that can damage their rotors.
| waynesonfire wrote:
| "What's the matter, Colonel Sandurz? Chicken?"
| consumer451 wrote:
| Which is not quite accurate. AFAIK, the problem is that the
| tiny particles quickly destroy the turbine engines, not the
| rotor itself.
| fencepost wrote:
| Which makes me wonder about the feasibility of a drone with
| flight powered by hydrogen peroxide rather than electric
| motors......
|
| Little single-person helicopters powered with 85% H2O2 and
| a silver catalyst cropped up as a thing back in 2010, but
| the company in question appears to be gone now.
| tweedledee wrote:
| I'm sure the tiny particles would damage the rotors as
| well. Even rain is bad enough.
| gridspy wrote:
| Probably the reporter assumes most people consider the
| whole "spinny thing that keeps helicopter in air" package
| to be one thing. Turbine, rotor and all.
| zardo wrote:
| Or the reporter and editor both don't know much about
| helicopters, or don't consider the details of why they
| can't fly to be worth spending their time on.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| JshWright wrote:
| If they have been dropping food from drones, why have they been
| "eating very little"? Couldn't they just drop more food...?
| cmcaine wrote:
| Dogs often eat a lot less when they are stressed, though
| usually not so little or for so long that they get emaciated.
| bjornsing wrote:
| Agree. Seems like a much safer bet.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| Obviously a last ditch rescue attempt, which vindicates the
| untested methodology that we might otherwise be critical of.
|
| Also rather faith restoring that so many people are attempting to
| save these animals at cost to themselves.
| jagger27 wrote:
| This language reminds me of the infamous Thai cave rescue. Look
| how public opinion turned on Elon in that instance.
|
| There are a lot of differences here, of course.
| wavefunction wrote:
| Didn't public opinion swing against Elon Musk for trying to
| insert himself into an already on-going rescue and then
| called one of the men who did rescue the kids a 'pedo-guy'?
| That's something I'd expect from a 13 year old on xbox live.
| Hokusai wrote:
| That exactly. People were disgusted by the attention grab
| and the lack of respect for people risking their lives.
| 'I'm a billionaire, look at me!' syndrome.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Are. Not were. The fact that we see this still being
| mentioned is a pretty good testimony to how utterly tone
| deaf Musk was when he did that.
| happytiger wrote:
| That's an astute point.
| zionic wrote:
| > one of the men who did rescue the kids a 'pedo-guy'?
|
| AFAIK it was a consultant, who advised the actual divers,
| who first told elon to "shove his sub up his ass".
|
| Immaturity all around.
| aaron695 wrote:
| > and then called one of the men who did rescue the kids a
| 'pedo-guy'
|
| Absolutely not.
|
| It was in response to the backlash, complicated, and
| clearly Elon wasn't doing anything for PR. He's smart and
| has a smart team, he knew if he killed the kids it'd hurt
| him an order of magnitude more than saving them. The fact
| one person died in the rescue was not unfortunate, it was
| expected, getting every kid out alive was unexpected.
|
| "The subject of Musk's tweet, Vernon Unsworth, had slammed
| the tech leader's efforts to aid in the cave rescue by
| building a miniature submarine, calling it a "PR stunt" in
| an interview with CNN." (CNN lied about Unsworth calling it
| a "PR stunt", FWIW)
|
| People are so mentally ill they can't even remember their
| own lives anymore. It's all on the record in Google, but I
| guess no one cares about the fidelity of their own past.
|
| These drone operators will get fucked if they drop the
| dogs. Because people are cunts and want someone to hurt.
| That's the Twitter way, always ends up a lynch mob. The
| media has always done this, but Twitter refined it to a
| speedy art with no recovery, pre-internet it was cyclic at
| least.
| 323 wrote:
| > Also rather faith restoring that so many people are
| attempting to save these animals at cost to themselves.
|
| You're a bit naive.
|
| They will easily be able to raise $200k on a GoFundMe like
| thing. They will also gain massive social networks followings
| and be invited to leading podcasts and TV shows to talk about
| their heroism.
|
| All with minimal investment and zero personal and reputational
| risk, nobody will blame them if they fail.
| sushisource wrote:
| To contrast, I think maybe you're being a bit overly cynical.
| What evidence is there of that happening? Even if they did,
| is that such a bad thing? Can the guy not want to both save
| the dogs and make a cool video? They're not mutually
| exclusive.
| 323 wrote:
| I once read an article which was about how we are willing
| to spend thousands to save one particular dog, or one
| particular injured bird, instead of donating that money to
| "animal habitat preservation" or something similar which
| will save thousands of diverse animals.
|
| And then there's the whole industrial farm-animal raising
| thing, where billions of animals are systematically
| tortured. But nobody cares, because it's not a particular
| animal in a particular situation that we can stand behind
| and do cool saving off to show our "humanity".
| crate_barre wrote:
| We would do this for anyone honestly, it's not just dogs.
| That's tough to see. My heart isn't handling this well
| and I just heard about it.
|
| I hope the net is very big, they'd have to do dry runs
| with the net with the food in it, get them used to going
| into the net for the food. The hard part is going to be
| (well every part is hard), but if both dogs come into the
| net, that's going to be a failed attempt.
|
| Sadly I think they may only get one dog out, unless the
| dogs have different sleeping patterns, grab the awake
| one. I have no idea, this is heart breaking.
|
| Maybe send a huge net with 4 drones to ensure if both
| dogs come in, they can carry the load out.
|
| If they pull it off, take all the free marketing you can
| eat.
| onychomys wrote:
| I mean, we'd obviously do it for people. I'm not sure
| we'd do it for many other animals, though.
| sushisource wrote:
| People act irrationally when it comes to their feelings
| on preserving life. Human or animal.
|
| I think it's pretty lame to say "Well, we shouldn't save
| one particular being because we're not maximally saving
| the most beings!".
|
| Accept what we can get, and work with that. Don't let the
| perfect be the enemy of the good.
| exporectomy wrote:
| It's not clear that many of these efforts are good at
| all. A classic example is feeding stray cats. That just
| increases the carrying capacity so you're creating more
| stray cats and even more will be hungry.
|
| Exterminate cows to prevent cow suffering? Or farm them
| to maximize their population?
| sushisource wrote:
| I mean that's fair, but we're talking about airlifting
| some poor dogs with a cool drone, not exactly a common
| thing that will lead to long term problems.
| nickff wrote:
| > _"...billions of animals are systematically tortured.
| But nobody cares... "_
|
| Many people do care, and show it in various ways, from
| paying extra for free-range eggs, to going vegetarian or
| vegan. I agree with the other commenter that you're being
| overly cynical.
| oblak wrote:
| You're right but it doesn't really matter in the grand
| scheme of things, though.
|
| For every vegetarian, vegan, or anyone just willing to
| scale down, there are hundreds who would happily consume
| more of that sweet subsidized meat, even if it kills
| them.
|
| Sorry for the rant
| munificent wrote:
| You may discover one day that there is no "grand scheme
| of things", no final day of reckoning when all of
| humanity is tallied up to decide once and for all if
| we're a Good or Bad species.
|
| It's just individuals doing what they can with what they
| have.
| oblak wrote:
| Well, I didn't mean it as some kind of grand cosmic
| spiritual picture or anything. Frankly, I am not sure
| what made you believe that.
|
| In any case, what I meant was that while individual
| efforts matter, they're dwarfed by de facto policy,
| formal or not. And, implicitly, that I am more than a
| tiny bit annoyed by people who desperately try to offset
| anyone's efforts just because they can. Consume, consume,
| consume. As being able is a justification enough in
| itself.
| nickff wrote:
| You said that efforts to relieve the plight of animals _"
| doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things"_,
| but I disagree with you, as helping one animal is
| meaningful. I don't understand how you can believe that
| animals as a whole deserve better without also believing
| that each animal deserves better.
|
| You now brought up a separate issue, which seems to be
| rooted in a philosophical disagreement. If you think the
| 'desperate consumers' are causing harm, I invite you to
| convince them to change their ways. As an incrementalist,
| I see each small improvement as virtuous.
| thewakalix wrote:
| Perhaps this is "scope insensitivity".
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scope_neglect
| mike_d wrote:
| > And then there's the whole industrial farm-animal
| raising thing
|
| Huge difference between a pet that has developed human
| companionship bonds over thousands of years and a chicken
| or a cow that would be extinct had it not been delicious.
| oblak wrote:
| You're right. I've been thinking how many animals, not
| just birds, have been killed so that I can provide the
| birds that come by our window with sunflower, pumpkin or
| some other kind of seed.
|
| Yes, I am fucking hypocrite.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| Just because the act is irrational or sub-optimal does
| not mean it is insincere.
|
| In many respects, the "rational" response would be to
| shoot the dogs with a rifle and donate the rescue funds
| to an animal shelter.
| mike_d wrote:
| The company has posted to social media asking people and news
| media to stop trying to contact them and their employees so
| they can focus on preparing for the rescue.
|
| I don't think money or fame is the motivation here.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| voz_ wrote:
| What a wildly toxic reply. Are you really insinuating that
| people are saving poor trapped animals due to some selfish
| motivation? Is this how you see the world? If so, I'd rather
| be what you call "Naive".
| 323 wrote:
| It's worse. There's a whole industry on Facebook/YouTube of
| people who "save dogs stuck in cement" which they put into
| that situation, and the videos get tens of millions of
| views.
|
| https://www.four-paws.org/our-stories/publications-
| guides/fa...
|
| https://dogtime.com/advocacy/79431-fake-dog-rescue-videos
| crate_barre wrote:
| I really don't think this is that, and I'm the most
| cynical bastard on HN.
| kodah wrote:
| This rhetoric reminds me of the cynicism that a lot of,
| especially, environmental activists have. There are a lot of
| ways to make change. If you can prove that a drone can carry
| a dog out of a very hazardous environment then it's useful as
| our environment gets universally more hazardous. You're also
| casting shade on raising money or publicity -- my question to
| you: what major problem can be solved without isolated public
| examples and money?
|
| Last, I'm fairly certain calling folks naive is against the
| HN guidelines.
| 323 wrote:
| > my question to you: what major problem can be solved
| without isolated public examples and money
|
| I'm pretty sure the things Bill Gates foundation does are
| not about isolated public examples - they evaluate
| proposals based on impact, measured in lives saved, and not
| in heart warming individual saves. Sterile stuff like
| providing anti-mosquito bed nets which don't make you tear
| up.
| kodah wrote:
| Right, providing a cheap mosquito bed is a little easier
| to go mass production with than being able to use drones
| as an emergency recovery vehicle. The latter requires the
| right motivation and the right (hopeless) risk profile.
| The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation also absolutely
| does a lot of advertising and interviews which are aimed
| at winning hearts and minds about their work.
| kadabra9 wrote:
| I bet you're a lot of fun at parties.
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