[HN Gopher] Recovering locked Facebook accounts is a nightmare. ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Recovering locked Facebook accounts is a nightmare. That's on
       purpose
        
       Author : bookofjoe
       Score  : 132 points
       Date   : 2021-10-19 13:54 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
        
       | dclaw wrote:
       | I spent the better part of 2019 and early 2020 recovering my dead
       | dog's facebook account so I could get some photos off of it and
       | close it properly. I hadn't used it in like 4-5 years, and had to
       | re-purchase the domain name used so I could get emails from them.
       | What a nightmare. They treated him like he was a human, and
       | wouldn't accept a photo of the dog, his county-registered
       | license, or anything else. After trying for over 8 months,
       | mysteriously the account got unlocked with no explanation.
       | #DeleteFacebook
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | Facebook allows pages for pets, but not user profiles.
        
         | hashmymustache wrote:
         | People use FB as a photo backup service?
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | It isn't a great backup service, but it is useful. Every day
           | they give me a x years ago you shared - normally a picture of
           | my kids doing something cute that I forgot about until then.
           | Brings a big smile to my face.
           | 
           | You have to be careful how you use Facebook. I've gotten
           | aggressive about blocking all from every single group and
           | cute kitten post. Facebook is a great way to share pictures
           | with my friends and family. For news, jokes, buying/selling,
           | and learning about my hobbies it is useless (because the
           | algorithm doesn't show me everything). As a rules, if it
           | isn't something you wouldn't mark as personal information
           | with limited distribution it shouldn't be on Facebook. (this
           | also implies Facebook needs high security)
        
           | blaze33 wrote:
           | Yes, lots of people have at least some of their photos only
           | stored on FB and have no backups, so FB ends up being their
           | de facto "photo backup service".
           | 
           | Obviously you should routinely backup your data, yet here we
           | are. Last year I noticed that most of the photo albums I
           | shared on FB over the years just disappeared. They were not
           | hidden by some app setting, nor temporarily unavailable, the
           | data dump FB offers has no trace they even ever existed. The
           | data was gone. I reported the issue but never got any answer.
           | Thankfully I had the original photos on my old desktop. So
           | when your data may randomly vanish, do backups, just my two
           | cents.
        
         | citizenpaul wrote:
         | Same happened to me except I didn't send any ID or pictures or
         | anything. I just said I guess I'm done with FB, then got an
         | email saying my account was unlocked about 2 months later.
         | 
         | I don't think FB actually has a fraud system outside of "wait a
         | long time" so its not worth it to hackers.
        
         | csunbird wrote:
         | Why do you have a facebook account for your dog anyways?
        
           | Sunspark wrote:
           | So they could be angry at people for not accepting friend
           | requests from their dog.
        
           | sithlord wrote:
           | Because they wanted to? Not sure why it matters.
        
             | tinus_hn wrote:
             | Is it even allowed by the terms of service to create
             | accounts that are not for humans?
        
               | inetknght wrote:
               | Once upon a couple decades ago, Facebook's terms of
               | service didn't require you to be a human.
               | 
               | And even if you're not a human, how would Facebook prove
               | it?
               | 
               | And even if Facebook could prove that you are not human,
               | what right do they have to deny you what they clearly
               | claim is yours ("your" photos)?
        
               | tinus_hn wrote:
               | If the terms of service don't allow you to create a
               | Facebook account for a dog, is it reasonable to expect
               | them to accommodate recovery when you do so anyway?
        
               | dclaw wrote:
               | Well, that wasn't always the case. If they change the
               | terms of service to disallow having a non-human account,
               | that doesn't change the fact that it still exists. By the
               | time I deleted my own personal facebook account, I hadn't
               | used the dog account in years anyway. It only became an
               | issue when the dog died. Also, I did nothing wrong to
               | lock the account, it was their idiotic methods that
               | caused the issue, not the fact that the account was
               | actually for a dog.
        
               | inetknght wrote:
               | > _If the terms of service don't allow you to create a
               | Facebook account for a dog, is it reasonable to expect
               | them to accommodate recovery when you do so anyway?_
               | 
               | First, if the terms of service didn't have any exclusion
               | against a dog then absolutely yes it's reasonable to
               | expect them to accommodate recovery when you do so.
               | 
               | Second, if the terms of service explicitly state that you
               | own anything then is it reasonable that they deny you
               | your owership? We're talking about HUMANS here. If a
               | business states that you are not permitted to enter their
               | building but you do so anyway, and in doing so you lost
               | your wallet, then is it reasonable to expect them to
               | return it to you? Yes it absofuckinglutely is. This is no
               | different whatsoever.
               | 
               | Third, terms of services are not a contract because
               | nobody reads them. A contract specifically requires that
               | both parties understand and comprehend the terms of the
               | contract. Websites provide services despite the fact that
               | 99% of people do not understand the terms presented.
               | You're deluding yourself if you think it's reasonable to
               | think that everyone fully understands "Facebook is not a
               | place for pictures of my dog".
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | Looks like it's to post pictures of the dog.
           | 
           | Why shouldn't one crate an account for a dog?
        
             | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
             | Dogs are Facebook's least toxic posters.
        
               | marcosdumay wrote:
               | On an unrelated thought, it used to be that on the
               | internet nobody knew you were a dog...
        
               | markjenkinswpg wrote:
               | https://stallman.org/images/dog.jpg
        
           | TheChaplain wrote:
           | Friend of mine have an IG account for their kitten, and they
           | post in a form of a journal from the cats perspective.
           | 
           | Might seem silly to some and only have two followers but they
           | have fun and it doesn't harm anyone.
        
           | kibwen wrote:
           | In a long-lost age, the internet used to be for fun. In 2006
           | the guys in our dorm made a Facebook account for the
           | decorative plastic pumpkin that we drank beer out of.
        
       | kstrauser wrote:
       | I'm out. I'm currently running facebook-delete to completely
       | purge my account of all content. After a couple of weeks, I'll
       | deactivate it. After a couple more, I'm deleting it. I want
       | nothing more to do with that company in any way.
       | 
       | Before someone brings up Oculus: I don't care. It's dead to me.
       | Any technology that _requires_ me to have a FB account might as
       | well not exist in my world.
       | 
       | (BTW, `facebook-delete -rateLimit 40000`, ie a 40 second wait
       | between actions, is what it finally took to run without hitting
       | rate limits and stopping after removing a few actions. I'm
       | leaving it running in tmux until it's finished.)
        
         | 908087 wrote:
         | Feed them a bunch of bullshit data before you leave. Join
         | groups for things you aren't interested in, and like / click
         | ads for things you don't care about.
        
         | zepto wrote:
         | Where do I find 'facebook-delete'? Googling didn't yield
         | anything obvious.
        
           | djmips wrote:
           | I assume it's this. https://github.com/marcelja/facebook-
           | delete
           | 
           | Found with Googling. ;-)
        
         | Sanzig wrote:
         | I did the account nuke a few months ago. Felt great.
         | 
         | The only social media accounts I still have are twitter (locked
         | down account, never post, use it to follow a few local
         | businesses and local public figures), HN, and Reddit.
         | 
         | I'm also getting pretty close to pulling the plug on Reddit,
         | the site feels somehow even _more_ toxic and polarized than it
         | did years ago. Although, that 's probably also partially a
         | function of me growing up and maturing.
        
           | BeFlatXIII wrote:
           | IMO, the increased toxicity of Reddit is due to user base
           | growth. Much worse content used to be openly allowable on
           | Reddit, but the users who posted that stuff were more content
           | to stay in their hate holes and leave the rest of the site
           | alone.
           | 
           | Unfortunately, even the small subs that are just as good as
           | the Reddit of old still have a time bomb of when the
           | subscriber base grows to the point that the mods can't stop
           | the user base from spamming irrelevant IRL political
           | discussion in the comments.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | I use to be really active on Twitter but now keep it around
           | mainly to shame bad customer service. I definitely wouldn't
           | follow me anymore.
           | 
           | I'm really torn on Reddit. It still has lots of good
           | communities, but it's so easy to pop over to something mean-
           | spirited to get a little "I'm a superior person!" endorphin
           | rush. I don't need that in my life.
           | 
           | I still have and enjoy a Mastodon account. It feels like
           | Twitter, but more chaotic in a good way, and with people
           | being on the whole much nicer to each other.
        
           | shoulderfake wrote:
           | Not to mention the speech policing going on in reddit...its
           | basically useless now since you cant say what you think.
        
           | robotmay wrote:
           | I've been wanting to delete Facebook for years but my partner
           | convinced me to keep it - but now I haven't even logged in in
           | a year and nobody noticed, so I feel like I can get away with
           | it now!
           | 
           | Reddit and Twitter I already nuked last year. Trying to think
           | of other things I can go and delete now, as it's quite
           | cathartic.
        
           | Misdicorl wrote:
           | Depending on what you mean by a few years ago (perhaps
           | five?), you might just need to re-curate your subs.
           | Communities hit big problems once they get too big that are
           | fundamentally hard to manage. Drop your big communities and
           | try to find the replacement that's much smaller
        
           | TheJoYo wrote:
           | Using a third party app like Infinity for Reddit lets me
           | subscribe to subreddits anonymously.
           | 
           | Reddit has been read-only for me since the Digg migration so
           | I lose nothing and give nothing.
        
         | ljm wrote:
         | I wish I took the scorched-earth approach to deleting my FB
         | account as well as trusting GDPR.
         | 
         | But there's still whatsapp and that now plugs into FB, and
         | there's no longer an evolution to SMS and MMS, a way to message
         | purely by having a phone number, no matter what account you
         | have.
         | 
         | You can't opt out of this except by going totally off the grid.
        
         | KennyBlanken wrote:
         | Is there any proof that "deleting" something on Facebook does
         | anything other than set a flag along the lines of "doNotShow"?
        
           | MerelyMortal wrote:
           | I would like to know too, but how does one prove that?
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | Not that I know of, although CCPA may have something to say
           | about that. However, I think of it like symbolically crushing
           | a final pack of cigarettes. It's a turning point. Even if FB
           | retains my old data, it's almost certain that I can't
           | personally restore it. If I ever get tempted to go back, that
           | takes away a lot of the motivation: why would I start over
           | today with a blank Facebook account?
        
           | saddlerustle wrote:
           | The last published DPC audit found that it does [1]. There's
           | really no reason to subject themselves to huge fines and lie
           | about it when an insignificant fraction of facebook users
           | delete anything.
           | 
           | [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20171218060100/https://www.da
           | tap...
        
             | mttddd wrote:
             | anecdotally from a few folks I know who work there it does
             | get completely deleted after a month or two I believe. Like
             | you said between GDPR, the FTC settlement and just general
             | bad press they actually take deleting data pretty seriously
        
               | Sunspark wrote:
               | I am skeptical. The reason is because I worked for a bank
               | that had a policy of deleting data after 7+ years. The
               | thing is, a number of database tables were just simply
               | removed from the index but still existed and if you knew
               | the name of the table you could continue accessing them.
               | Likewise, all the tape backups continued to exist, they
               | weren't shredded and this was proven when someone in IT
               | somewhere screwed up and restored my team's network drive
               | with an image from 10+ years ago. It was interesting
               | poking around to see what files were on it from before
               | anyone on the current team was a member, but that
               | shouldn't have happened. So, if a multi-national bank was
               | acting this way, why would FB be any different? They are
               | so large now, fines are just background noise and they
               | have to be caught to be fined.
        
           | rpastuszak wrote:
           | Not doing so would be quite risky from GDPR perspective.
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | But they already breach the GDPR on so many levels.
        
         | YetAnotherNick wrote:
         | Is there any other benefit in having account deleted vs just an
         | inactive account(default case for the majority)? They don't
         | stop tracking you based on whether you are logged in or not.
        
           | txsoftwaredev wrote:
           | I would imagine if enough people made that choice it would
           | eventually come up in a shareholder meeting as it would
           | affect their active number of users. I'm not sure how they
           | report this if you just don't use your account for a long
           | period of time.
        
       | treesknees wrote:
       | During the start of the pandemic/lockdown in the US, my 90 year
       | old grandfather was locked out of his Facebook account. He
       | doesn't post or add friends, literally only uses it to play slot
       | and casino games. Turns out his password was compromised and
       | someone had gotten in and changed the name/profile and had been
       | spamming and scamming people on FB marketplace. He hadn't noticed
       | because he never went onto a regular FB page, he only clicked
       | into it from offer emails from his games.
       | 
       | It was tough because at the time I couldn't go to help him in
       | person. And even when I finally could, it took months of waiting
       | and even contacting an old college roommate at FB to help get it
       | unlocked. It was probably 8 or 10 months later that he finally
       | received an email and could go reset his password.
       | 
       | I really wish these multi-billion dollar companies would at least
       | staff a helpdesk to field these basic issues. When these "free"
       | services lock you out, you're basically left with yelling at what
       | feels like a wall trying to get help.
        
         | ilamont wrote:
         | _When these "free" services lock you out_
         | 
         | They may be "free" to use, but Facebook is making real money
         | off of every account, certainly enough to fund human help for
         | critical issues like this.
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | A big factor for not doing that (besides the cost of employing
         | a helpdesk for every language that Facebook is used in) is that
         | the helpdesk just becomes another vector for malicious account
         | takeover. If you put it there, you're going to have sob stories
         | about people who made their account years ago but don't have
         | the old password, don't have access to the email, don't
         | remember what they posted, and yet will cry, expecting the
         | human on the other end to give their their FB account back -
         | and if they can do that, so can a malicious actor trying to get
         | into random peoples' accounts to scam then on Marketplace[0] or
         | what have you.
         | 
         | 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28918834
        
           | rectang wrote:
           | I understand the business factors that require initial
           | account creation to be frictionless, and so why proof of
           | identity must be weak, but why can't account recovery offer
           | an option where you prove your identity indisputably?
           | 
           | For example, some sort of physical storefront (possibly run
           | by an independent company), where you go and say I am so-and-
           | so and here's my ID and please take my picture and my
           | fingerprints so that if I'm scamming I'll be easy to catch
           | and here's twenty bucks for your trouble.
           | 
           | I'd rather do that then spend weeks or months locked out,
           | uncertain, and talking to a wall.
           | 
           | Privacy advocates won't be happy, but Facebook, Google, etc.
           | don't have the same motivations as privacy advocates.
        
             | pxeboot wrote:
             | That is essentially what mobile phone carriers do, yet
             | "customers" provide fake/stolen IDs all the time to perform
             | sim-swap attacks and obtain financed phones they never plan
             | to make a payment on.
        
             | saddlerustle wrote:
             | Facebook does sometimes ask for a scan of government ID in
             | the account recovery flow. Unfortunately the cost of
             | operating the ~100,000 storefronts required to be nearby a
             | significant fraction of its users would be absurd compared
             | to the benefits.
        
               | gjs278 wrote:
               | it could be as easy as going to a notary
        
           | treeman79 wrote:
           | That is a good argument. But what is with not having a way to
           | put recovery email/phone back to what it was, literally
           | minutes after it was changed by a new login in another state.
        
         | LocalH wrote:
         | At this point, it's by design. They'll claim the opacity is
         | needed "to prevent malicious actors from probing the system and
         | finding the process's weaknesses", whereas my opinion is that
         | they do this to remind people "who's in charge".
        
         | MandieD wrote:
         | Somewhat tangential, but I, and my elderly relatives on the
         | other side of the country and Atlantic, would love for me to
         | have the same level of optional supervision for their accounts
         | that I automatically have for accounts associated with my
         | child.
        
       | numpad0 wrote:
       | I'm thinking there must be a physical open door somewhere in
       | Eastern or Southern Europe, which malicious individuals can just
       | walk in and vandalize accounts. It's happening too often with too
       | much ease and adversaries don't look or sound geniuses like
       | Feynman brought up wrong.
        
       | hansolosays wrote:
       | my IG account was stolen (no change email notification)... I had
       | 2 factor on the email and IG and there is no way for me to even
       | follow up on it...
        
       | bookofjoe wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/86Cgc
        
       | hihungryimdad wrote:
       | Recently my facebook was locked for "Suspicious activity". The
       | only reset option was to reset by email, but I no longer had
       | access to that email account (this is my failure, I knew I
       | didn't, but never updated).
       | 
       | After a few days of trying filling out all sorts of weird forms
       | on facebook that went most likely no where I came across an older
       | reddit thread that says to try and go through Oculus.
       | 
       | Filled out a trouble ticket saying that when I tried to link my
       | Oculus account with facebook that facebook had appeared to lock
       | my account due to "Suspicious activity". They asked for my
       | facebook information and for a picture of my Oculus' serial
       | number or proof that it had been purchased and being shipped.
       | Whoops, didn't have either. My friend on the other hand had a few
       | and was gracious enough to send me his serial number, that did
       | the trick.
       | 
       | Oculus said someone from facebook would be in contact within a
       | week. That still hasn't happened (Been 6 weeks now). BUT, after
       | approximately 3 days my account recovery options changed and I
       | could choose 5 of my friends to unlock my account. Viola, I was
       | in.
       | 
       | Not sure if it was spamming some of the "unused" forms or going
       | through Oculus. But if you are desperate a friend with an Oculus
       | might just save you.
        
       | ews wrote:
       | I lost my instagram account twice. No explanation. Just they were
       | closed for 'security issues' - I sent over 10 emails with
       | personal pictures asking FB to revert that decisions. Nothing,
       | not even a reply.
       | 
       | Seriously, I am out. I didn't even bother to open a new one.
        
       | Communitivity wrote:
       | This is why we need SelfSovereign Identity (SSI), which is really
       | a buzzword for the concept of 'A user should own and fully
       | control their digital identity and digital content, which
       | requires decentralized identifiers'.
       | 
       | SSI is an interesting approach that has been slow to build up
       | steam, but there are a large number of people developing it. It
       | has some bumps and warts to work out still, but overall I think
       | it's a workable technology, and definitely better than what we
       | have now.
       | 
       | For more information see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-
       | sovereign_identity and https://tykn.tech/self-sovereign-identity/
        
         | 34g34vb34v3 wrote:
         | Microsoft is using Bitcoin's network at an attempt to solve
         | this problem: https://identity.foundation/ion/.
        
           | faeyanpiraat wrote:
           | From their FAQ: "Just like Sidetree ION is open source.
           | Microsoft has been an important sustaining sponsor, but no
           | more than that."
        
       | ylee wrote:
       | I don't have an Oculus Quest 2 but have heard good things about
       | it. But I can't get one because my Facebook account was shut down
       | without explanation in 2019. Despite its age (15 years) I barely
       | used it, let alone for anything "controversial", but did
       | regularly log into it. I repeatedly tried to verify my identity
       | by submitting an image of my driver's license, without any
       | response.
       | 
       | If a Facebook employee is reading this ... I don't want to create
       | a fake new Facebook account (which would be against the TOS,
       | anyway). I want my own back.
        
         | YetAnotherNick wrote:
         | Just create a damn account. I don't think their TOS would cover
         | people locked out of their account by facebook's fault.
        
       | treeman79 wrote:
       | It's not a nightmare it's impossible. Source, a sobbing wife who
       | lost 15+ years of photos. Thankfully I have most of the import
       | ones stored elsewhere.
       | 
       | Apparently for her and her friends Facebook was the "safe" place
       | to store photos.
       | 
       | Only 20 minutes after she got an email saying new login and it
       | was to late. They had changed recovery info and no way to change
       | it back. Only thing we accomplished was disabling the account.
       | 
       | Almost all of her friends have lost their accounts.
        
         | gspencley wrote:
         | My key takeaway from the Facebook "whistle-blower" is how lax
         | Facebook's internal security is. Many have pointed out that
         | Frances Haugen was essentially a nobody within the
         | organization. A mid-level employee who didn't make key
         | decisions or have particularly privileged account-level access.
         | She said herself that ANY employee could have copied the same
         | documents she did.
         | 
         | If Facebook is that lax with their own internal documents then
         | I have to assume that their user account security is no better
         | than at any company I've worked for as a software developer -
         | which is to say completely non-existent.
         | 
         | As far as I'm concerned, anyone who uses Facebook, Instagram,
         | WhatsApp or any other FB-owned company is as good as making all
         | their information, including DMs, public.
        
           | ahahahahah wrote:
           | That's a really dumb takeaway. What does the openness of
           | documents like that within the company possibly have to do
           | with the company's security? How do you even connect those
           | two? Your theory is that a company that chooses to be open
           | among employees and not lock down simple research documents
           | somehow must be bad at security?
        
             | djmips wrote:
             | The anecdata mentioned, that all the software companies
             | they have worked for have poor internal security struck a
             | chord with me even if it can be argued it's just anecdata.
             | And if you look at facebook's checkered history of security
             | it's not a good track record. Or how about the fact that
             | you can still to this day post public links to private
             | photos?
        
       | unicornporn wrote:
       | Anything outside normal behavior can trigger these automated
       | systems. Trying to withhold important personal data will make you
       | an unimportant user in the eyes of these hungry giants and it
       | _will_ trigger the lock out hell spirals sooner than later.
       | 
       | I use Instagram only in a separate container in Firefox. I have
       | no phone number connected to it. I tried to manually delete my
       | pictures the other week. Got half way through before being locked
       | out for suspicious activity. Message said account would be
       | deleted if I didn't give them my phone number.
       | 
       | So, I bought a prepaid SIM card and proceeded with SMS
       | verification. They told me I had to wait 24 hours. After 24 hours
       | I got a message saying I was still suspicious and had to send a
       | picture of myself holding a sign with my username. You could
       | mistake this process for a reddit gone wild submission.
       | 
       | I'm done with Insta. Went ahead and deleted my FB account too,
       | while I could still get in.
        
         | akomtu wrote:
         | You should've sent them a belieavable stock photo with
         | photoshopped sign.
        
         | egberts1 wrote:
         | 12yo Facebook account got deleted this way.
         | 
         | Asked me for my phone number. No way.
         | 
         | Goodbye, Facebook.
        
       | mrguyorama wrote:
       | I had my facebook account taken over a couple months ago. The
       | person used my compromised password to log in to facebook.
       | Facebook sent me an email saying "hey this doesn't look like you,
       | here's a '2fa' code to put in before you can log in".
       | 
       | Then, despite my email account not being compromised, such that
       | the person COULD NOT have gotten that code, facebook let them in
       | anyway, let them change my backup phone number and email
       | accounts, take off my phone number and email accounts, change my
       | password, and fully take over my account.
       | 
       | What the hell was the point of that "code" if facebook let them
       | in anyway? As the account no longer has my email address or phone
       | associated with it, I can't recover it through those channels. I
       | got the the point where you can send in a selfie with your ID,
       | sent that, and got an email (with zero "case ID" or communication
       | channel) that said verification normally takes 2 days. It's been
       | over two MONTHS. So I guess there's nothing I can do?
        
         | pawelwentpawel wrote:
         | I'm in the same position with Instagram. Been sending them
         | selfies with codes forever now with completely no response. My
         | account had a large following and I can't even seem to start a
         | new one with the same username. Process of account retrieval is
         | like talking to plants - you kinda know they're there but
         | they're actually not. It makes sense though - they have
         | colonised enough internet by now not to care about a couple
         | mere users. If you loose access to your account you're likely
         | not to get it back.
         | 
         | On the bright side though, I don't scroll that much anymore.
         | Maybe they lost a couple $ on advertising by loosing a user but
         | I have regained a small portion of my time I spent there. The
         | only real drawback is that I kept in touch with some people via
         | Instagram only.
         | 
         | A situation like this makes you realise that an account in any
         | of the FB owned companies can be taken away at any moment and
         | you shouldn't get attached to it too much nor make it a single
         | point of failure in your business / creative strategy. I'd
         | advice to:
         | 
         | - Keep a copy of your data (contacts, content posted etc.) and
         | try to diversify as much as possible.
         | 
         | - When using Facebook auth on 3rd party websites, make sure to
         | have another method of authentication available to avoid
         | getting locked out.
         | 
         | - Try to get phone numbers of important contacts so in the
         | worst case you can contact them via iMessage / Signal /
         | Telegram.
         | 
         | - If you have a large following, try to stream some of the
         | traffic to other platforms too. If loosing one account means
         | loosing your entire audience you're risking a lot.
         | 
         | In short - have a backup.
        
           | throwawayboise wrote:
           | I would say a better plan is to use maybe use social media as
           | a convenience but don't become so invested that you can't
           | just walk away. You should consider the accounts to be
           | disposable, put in the minimum amount of personal info and
           | don't use them as your authentication for anything else.
        
           | zht wrote:
           | also I'm sure many at HN know this but the same applies to
           | the Google accounts
        
             | fighterpilot wrote:
             | Yep got locked out of Google for no reason and it was
             | impossible to get in touch with a human. Extremely rage-
             | inducing. There needs to be far better consumer protection
             | on a government level with big tech (mostly Google and
             | Twitter/FB, not so much Amazon or Netflix or Apple). Some
             | of this is just unacceptable. I was reading one case of a
             | person who had their name/image associated with a convicted
             | rapist on Google and they couldn't get hold of a human to
             | have it fixed. This kind of thing just shouldn't be allowed
             | and there needs to be large fines going out. The onus
             | should not be on a small time individual to fork out tens
             | of thousands of dollars on a lawsuit.
        
             | pueblito wrote:
             | Am I being foolish using 'Sign In with Apple' on sites?
        
               | thephyber wrote:
               | I don't think any of us know how much risk we have due to
               | automated rules created by these high scale tech
               | companies with very small customer service departments.
        
               | exolymph wrote:
               | Yes. Apple may be more trustworthy than Google, but
               | you're still needlessly giving them opportunity to screw
               | you (most likely by accident or through random error).
               | Use a password manager and set up actual accounts.
        
               | crooked-v wrote:
               | Maybe, though by comparison to Google one of Apple's
               | pretty well-known selling points is having actual support
               | by real people available at all times.
        
               | atatatat wrote:
               | The Fappening allegedly occurred in part because of lack
               | of rate limiting of Find My iPhone API auth.
               | 
               | Take that as a grain of salt.
        
               | WorldMaker wrote:
               | It's also a reason to assume that they've corrected that
               | by now, if you want possible silver lining.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | twobitshifter wrote:
         | 2fa isn't as useful as people had thought it would be and
         | actually causes more problems for people like me with secure
         | passwords.
         | 
         | Probability of having my 24 alphanumeric university alum
         | account pw hacked:
         | 
         | |
         | 
         | Probability of me losing/destroying my phone/not remembering
         | the right 2FA app/having DUO mobile fail:
         | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
        
           | tpmx wrote:
           | Regarding the password hacking probability: Did you really
           | account for the malware/keylogging risk properly?
        
         | citizenpaul wrote:
         | Funny I had something similar happen. Though they didn't change
         | my email. Once FB started asking for me to send gov ID I just
         | said forget this.
         | 
         | About two months later I got an email saying my account access
         | had been restored. With me doing NOTHING. It seems FB is simply
         | using some sort of automated too long for hackers to care about
         | or be profitable system to monitor account fraud.
        
           | mroche wrote:
           | Had a similar thing happen to me back in 2019, but it never
           | got resolved: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24954602
           | 
           | I'm beyond caring at this point, but if for whatever reason I
           | get Messenger stripped I'm in for a fun time to try and
           | communicate with some of my west coast friends' group chats.
        
         | cwkoss wrote:
         | I wonder if it there are facebook internal 'admin' type
         | employees that are stealing accounts in this way.
         | 
         | That would be a way to get the code. Wouldn't be too surprised
         | if facebook was skimping on oversight.
         | 
         | Do you know what the behavior of the account was after
         | takeover? Was there a clear monetization strategy (ex posting
         | links, sending spam messages, etc)?
        
         | notyourwork wrote:
         | Perhaps coincidence, same thing happened to me. I was able to
         | recover my account but the entire thing was head scratching.
         | Granted I don't use my account but I also didn't want someone
         | to have it and turn it into a shill for nefarious purposes.
        
         | clairity wrote:
         | that's actually a blessing in disguise. you have somebody else
         | poisoning your personal information without you having to do
         | anything. i haven't logged into facebook (or instagram or
         | gmail) in at least a couple years. i hope the same has happened
         | to my accounts.
        
       | rectang wrote:
       | If you're designing an OAuth login system, it's important to
       | consider what happens to your user when they are locked out by
       | their provider and can no longer "Continue with Facebook" or
       | "Continue with Google" to use your service.
        
         | SkyPuncher wrote:
         | Not really. Most of these services tie back to an account (most
         | with an actual email address).
         | 
         | Should a SSO provider ever stop working, you simply "reset
         | their password". Send them a message to validate ownership of
         | the account, then ask them to set a password OR authenticate
         | with a different SSO provider.
         | 
         | ----
         | 
         | These are the types of threats engineers _love_ wasting time
         | analyzing.
        
           | rectang wrote:
           | > _Most of these services tie back to an account (most with
           | an actual email address)._
           | 
           | Indeed, that design helps address the problem. But it also
           | has implications for signup flow as you now need an email --
           | which is why I'm advocating that engineers "consider" the
           | issue.
           | 
           | > _These are the types of threats engineers _love_ wasting
           | time analyzing._
           | 
           | Sheesh, where's that hostility coming from?
        
         | ashtonkem wrote:
         | I specifically avoid using oauth to reduce the impact if google
         | bans me for whatever reason.
        
           | rectang wrote:
           | I do the same with my personal accounts. With work accounts
           | that use GSuite, though, I've been mostly using Google for
           | SSO.
           | 
           | Expecting ordinary users to make these kinds of decisions is
           | unrealistic.
        
             | b0afc375b5 wrote:
             | It's basically a single point of failure (SPOF) and with
             | proper risk assessment, one ultimately concludes to use
             | email/password whenever available.
        
         | user3939382 wrote:
         | The other day I wanted to switch Trello from "sign in with
         | Google" to an email/password. The first step in the process was
         | "To verify you before completing this action, please provide
         | your Atlassian password". I don't have one, I'm signing in via
         | Google...
        
           | Sanzig wrote:
           | My Spotify account was originally created using a Facebook
           | link. I eventually switched over to an email/password before
           | I deleted my Facebook account, but my Spotify account name is
           | an annoyingly long gibberish hash value that I can't change
           | (I assume it's something like a hashed value of my Facebook
           | UID but I've never bothered to check).
        
             | monkeybutton wrote:
             | My Spotify account created with a regular email has the
             | weird hash username too. After updating the app its a coin
             | flip whether or not the UUID looking string is what I see
             | displayed. I don't understand how they can make such a
             | large and complex service but not get user's display names
             | correct?
        
       | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
       | > Social media companies, meanwhile, juggle customer service and
       | account security as they try to make sure fraudsters don't abuse
       | recovery tools to wrongfully gain access. Some of this could be
       | solved with additional security checks,
       | 
       | This doesn't jive well with:
       | 
       | > Getting in touch with a human is rare.
       | 
       | It needs to be easier to deal with a human.
       | 
       | But I understand why it's hard to get to a human. Having humans
       | in the loop is expensive and doesn't scale when you have a user
       | count measured in the _billions_.
       | 
       | But you know what else doesn't scale? Trying to get all of your
       | users to understand basic account security. Not enough people are
       | using password managers. Not enough people are using 2FA. Too
       | many people are falling for phishing campaigns and responding to
       | silly posts like "Your porn name is the name of your first pet
       | and the street you grew up on" and giving away the answers to
       | security questions.
        
       | ranguski wrote:
       | The major reason, I have an account isnt so that someone could
       | impersonate me there, they could support the impersonator. And
       | leave me hanging, if things turn out bad.
        
       | arprocter wrote:
       | I ended up in the fun position of not being able to get into my
       | Facebook account, and the only recovery options were 'text a
       | number you haven't used in years, or ask this random selection of
       | people you no longer have contact with to confirm you are you'.
       | 
       | It turned out logging into Spotify some how re-enabled my access
       | - my only guess is because I had a Spotify account before they
       | were under the Zuck umbrella it somehow grandfathered me in
        
         | detritus wrote:
         | Spotify?
        
           | arprocter wrote:
           | Yep - I guess they are linked to Facebook, so getting into
           | one unlocked the other one?
           | 
           | Didn't really make much sense, but I was very glad to get
           | back into my account to chat to some old friends mid-pandemic
        
       | nikolay wrote:
       | Of course; we own have experienced this already! Some of my
       | friends create new accounts - I have friends with 5+ profiles!
       | And this is very convenient for Facebook as they report "new"
       | signups! Unfortunately, it makes their content less valuable. For
       | example, tagged photos, comments, etc. is now spanned thru more
       | than one profile. I've been restricted multiple times and their
       | pages to dispute give me a generic error every time I try - this
       | is on purpose, too.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-19 23:01 UTC)