[HN Gopher] DuckDuckGo has had 0 search warrants since founding ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       DuckDuckGo has had 0 search warrants since founding in 2008
        
       Author : arkadiyt
       Score  : 221 points
       Date   : 2021-10-18 15:40 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | mrtweetyhack wrote:
       | that just means nobody uses it
        
       | S_A_P wrote:
       | One thing I notice DDG lags behind google in is certain cases
       | where I want the most timely information regarding something. A
       | few examples:
       | 
       | I'm not a huge sports fan but knowing a bit about the latest
       | games helps for small talk among acquaintances. On Google I can
       | type "Texas A&M football" and I get the most recent score right
       | on top. DDG doesn't do this and I usually have to dig through a
       | few links to find it.
       | 
       | Another example- there have been 4 house fires in my area in the
       | last few weeks. It's enough and close proximity enough that I
       | wondered if arson is involved. I DDG house fires in my area and
       | got mostly results from 2012. Google was not perfect here but
       | much more current results were returned.
       | 
       | Now I could probably adjust my search query/criteria and get
       | better results but it seems that in general Google knows when to
       | return current results vs general information about some
       | regardless of publish date.
        
         | ziml77 wrote:
         | That's a category of queries that leads me to use Google. If
         | I'm looking up current events or something that changes a lot
         | over time, Google seems to be much better at giving me what I
         | want without me needing to tweak my query or add time range
         | restrictions on the search.
         | 
         | Also for some reason error messages come up with better results
         | on Google. DDG will make it look like no one has ever written
         | anything about the error I'm running into, Google usually has
         | something in its index to show me.
        
       | gundmc wrote:
       | Wouldn't it be more impressive if they were served warrants but
       | refused or were unable to comply? This just makes it sound like
       | no one uses DDG so the authorities don't care to request that
       | information.
        
         | irrational wrote:
         | Or, the police assume that everyone uses Google, so it doesn't
         | every occur to them to ask DDG. It's not like the police are
         | known for their tech-saviness.
        
         | autoexec wrote:
         | My cynical suspicion is that they probably aren't getting
         | warrants because as a US based online service that is
         | specifically marketed to people interested in privacy they've
         | already been handed a national security letter that prevents
         | them from telling anyone about it and the state is collecting
         | every scrap of data DDG has in real time and shares some of
         | that data with other agencies on a regular basis.
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | Or they're thoroughly backdoored and warrants aren't necessary.
        
         | shusson wrote:
         | As mentioned in the tweet, the impressive part is that
         | "DuckDuckGo doesn't have any search histories by design and, bc
         | of that, has had 0 search warrants"
        
           | lbriner wrote:
           | tbf, DDG can't know that they have no requests because they
           | don't collect history, although that wouldn't be a completely
           | mad assumption. It is also conceivable that their market
           | share is simply so small that no-one the police are chasing
           | are known to use DDG for their web searches.
           | 
           | In fact the second is more likely since otherwise the Tweet
           | would read, "we haven't been able to serve any warrant
           | requests", rather than "we haven't received any"
        
             | mike_hock wrote:
             | Or, you know, the tweet may be a lie.
        
           | vadfa wrote:
           | As if that assurance by DDG would've stopped the authorities
           | from requesting something.
        
           | rndgermandude wrote:
           | I cannot believe that no prosecutor got a warrant just to see
           | if they were telling the truth in their PR materials...
        
           | didibus wrote:
           | > and, bc of that, has had 0 search warrants
           | 
           | That's an abductive argument, which means it is one plausible
           | explanation, but given the many possible explanations, it is
           | not certain that the lack of search history is why they've
           | had 0 search warrants.
        
             | MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
             | Sure it's not proof, but it's pretty good _evidence_.
             | 
             |  _This man is unlikely to be the shooter because he has no
             | hands._
        
               | bduerst wrote:
               | Terrible analogy. You don't need hands to shoot a gun,
               | and the hands-less man would still be issued a warrant if
               | there were evidence he was the shooter.
               | 
               | The point is that being issued warrants and claiming to
               | not have search logs are independently conclusive.
        
               | blitzar wrote:
               | The number of users and the number of issued warrants
               | however are dependant...
        
       | ed312 wrote:
       | Usually in threads about DDG a common refrain is "but the results
       | are worse!" - generally to mean less specific. I always thought
       | that was the _feature_ -- they don 't compile a history on you,
       | track your location, etc. As a result, they take a best guess
       | from a global context.
       | 
       | FWIW, I've been a DDG user full time (mobile and desktop) for ~5
       | years. I _have_ learned to increase the specificity of my search
       | (e.g. start with a programming language before typing an error
       | string). Feels like a very small price to pay to avoid Google.
        
         | BitAstronaut wrote:
         | I am fine using DDG except for one specific thing. I am a big
         | sports fan and check scores for soccer and hockey all the time.
         | 
         | Being able to search "Google" or "MLS" on Google brings up the
         | days games and scores at the very top of the search. I don't
         | get that with DDG and every time I try to switch, I always come
         | crawling back to Google for that feature alone.
        
         | yumraj wrote:
         | In my experience, being a DDG user for several years, I use
         | search to find answers to some problem I'm facing. If I can
         | find it, I'm happy, without caring about if Google would have
         | given me better results. I don't spend my time comparing
         | between the two.
         | 
         | Based on the above, I'm been mostly satisfied, I'll say 99% of
         | the time. In the 1% of cases where DDG has not provided me an
         | answer to my problem, as a hail mary I try !g (Google) and
         | sometime I get an answer and many times not.
         | 
         | So, IMO the difference in search for most practical uses is
         | minor. Now, add the uncluttered user interface on top of it,
         | DDG wins by a huge margin.
        
           | jacurtis wrote:
           | I think the idea that DDG searches are "worse" is vastly
           | overblown. But again, I don't directly compare the two. But
           | using DDG for many years I have searched for my query, scan
           | the title of the top 4-5 results (which are visible w/o
           | scrolling) and click the best one I see in the results. I
           | have managed to find what I needed now on nearly every
           | occasion. Going to page 2 is an incredibly rare occurrence.
           | 
           | The one difference I notice between Google and DDG is that
           | DDG shows more search results "above the fold", meaning
           | without scrolling. There are some searches on Google where
           | not even a single legitimate/organic search result is visible
           | without scrolling. The top of the results page is cluttered
           | with all sorts of self-promotion, info boxes, ads, maps, and
           | other garbage. A normal search result usually yields 0-1 (or
           | 2 max) organic results above the fold.
           | 
           | So in my opinion that is the trade-off. Is that experience of
           | clutter a better search result? I guess that is a matter of
           | preference, but for me I prefer the simpler results from DDG.
           | I am able to find what I want and the experience is
           | preferable, and my privacy isn't compromised. So to me that
           | is the winner.
           | 
           | The one area that I will admit Google has DDG beat is local
           | search. It isn't even a close contest. I append !g to any
           | search query when I am looking for a local result such as
           | costco hours, or the name of a local restaurant to find their
           | page or address. That is the one area where DDG just plain
           | sucks and Google nails it every time.
        
         | hslwdnwkk wrote:
         | DDG user but want to say that Google image search is still
         | miles better.
         | 
         | I can search for an image based on my memory of elements within
         | the picture e.g. compare the results I get when searching
         | 
         | "nwa all looking down"
         | 
         | https://www.google.com/search?q=nwa+all+looking+down&hl=en&p...
         | 
         | https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nwa+all+looking+down&t=iphone&iax=...
         | 
         | "Film Poster men in suits Tarantino"
         | 
         | https://www.google.com/search?q=film+poster+men+in+suits+tar...
         | 
         | https://duckduckgo.com/?q=film+poster+men+in+suits+tarantino...
        
           | poglet wrote:
           | My favorite part of the DDG image search is being able to
           | locate and save the original image file without needing to
           | navigate to the website.
           | 
           | Google included this feature until a few years ago where they
           | removed it.
        
             | rascul wrote:
             | > Google included this feature until a few years ago where
             | they removed it.
             | 
             | I vaguely recall something about a legal settlement. A
             | quick search didn't turn anything up, though.
        
             | throaway3141593 wrote:
             | They removed it because photographers and publishers
             | complained about how easy it was for the average person to
             | just take images from the results and use them elsewhere
             | without attribution. The funny thing is, all you need to do
             | now is to right-click on the image and open in a new tab.
             | But based on _your_ change in behavior I guess that little
             | bit of obfuscation was a lot more effective that I thought.
        
         | soperj wrote:
         | I like DDG, i use it as my go to. That being said, it's very
         | very USA centric. It will default all my searches that are
         | place related (weather, restaurants, addresses) to the USA.
        
         | 34g34vb34v3 wrote:
         | I don't think that argument holds very much water. You can test
         | both in sanitized environments, and Google's search is still
         | better. Their algorithm is so much more than "surface content
         | based on personal data" but people are so quick to deduce it
         | down to just that.
         | 
         | I want DDG to succeed, but their search product sucks, and its
         | not because they don't collect data.
        
           | irrational wrote:
           | What does better mean? I've never had any trouble finding
           | exactly what I am searching for when using DDG. As long as I
           | find what I want, does it matter if Google is "better"?
        
           | chasil wrote:
           | The last time that I checked, DDG was buying search results
           | from Bing (as does Ecosia).
           | 
           | Is Bing that terrible?
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo
           | 
           | "It uses various APIs of other websites to show quick results
           | to queries and for traditional links it uses the help of its
           | partners (mainly Bing) and its own crawler."
        
             | autoexec wrote:
             | Bing has been caught stealing results from Google too.
             | https://www.wired.com/2011/02/bing-copies-google/
             | 
             | It seems like every search engine that isn't google, is
             | still just google but with extra stuff mixed in. It'd be
             | nice to see a competitor that didn't rely on anyone else's
             | search results and only developed and gathered results from
             | their own index.
        
               | ColinHayhurst wrote:
               | Apologies for self-promotion. Mojeek Independent and no-
               | tracking https://blog.mojeek.com/2021/03/to-track-or-not-
               | to-track.htm... Gigablast is another and one of very few
               | https://blog.mojeek.com/2021/05/no-tracking-search-how-
               | does-...
        
             | Minor49er wrote:
             | Bing isn't too bad. I've actually half-migrated to using it
             | since the results are often relevant and usually even
             | better than Google.
             | 
             | From my experience, Google is better at searching for
             | programming-related topics, but anything specific and it
             | starts to fall apart. I can make an exact phrase query on
             | Google and it will drop words out of the phrase for no
             | reason. Bing doesn't do this.
        
           | id02009 wrote:
           | I use DDG for years, and it's at most once a month when I
           | can't find something and need to fall back to Google. Maybe I
           | got used to the suckiness? Or maybe it's relative?
        
             | bamboozled wrote:
             | I use Google for work DDG for play.
             | 
             | Google is just so much better at finding technical related
             | content.
        
             | Forbo wrote:
             | Any time DDG fails me, I just append "!s" to proxy the
             | search through StartPage instead. I've found it scratches
             | the itch pretty well for 99% of my use cases.
        
               | dmoy wrote:
               | Which is just google, right?
        
               | Forbo wrote:
               | In the same sense that "DuckDuckGo is just Bing".
        
               | okay475008 wrote:
               | this isn't real. Google has the worst results in
               | comparison to both yandex, baidu, and even
               | ddg/startpage/bing/any other google clone like
               | duckduckgo.
        
               | spicybright wrote:
               | I found myself typing !s so much I switched my default to
               | start page. DDG results are really bad imo
        
             | unicornporn wrote:
             | DDG = Bing
             | 
             | Startpage = Google
             | 
             | Bing/DDG results suck (when localized to Sweden), so I use
             | Startpage.
             | 
             | I know it's owned by an ad tech company now, but I haven't
             | seen any proof that will affect _me_. Its reach can 't be
             | compared to Google's, which has its trackers on just about
             | every web page (Google Analytics and Fonts).
        
               | squarefoot wrote:
               | Looks like Startpage is now what Scroogle was roughly up
               | to a decade ago.
               | 
               | https://www.ghacks.net/2012/02/22/scroogle-founder-pulls-
               | the...
        
         | ornornor wrote:
         | I found a self hosted whoogle[0] to be a good middle ground.
         | 
         | [0]: https://github.com/benbusby/whoogle-search
        
         | contravariant wrote:
         | To me using duckduckgo feels a lot like what using google used
         | to be like. Basically it's all about picking the right
         | keywords. This has the advantage of giving more predictable
         | results, but has the disadvantage that it's hard to find
         | something with vague queries (e.g. good luck finding a quote
         | from a movie you've half forgotten).
        
         | Arnavion wrote:
         | I documented (a subset of) my experience in [1]. I don't think
         | any of the Google victories there can be considered to be
         | because of personalization.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.arnavion.dev/blog/2020-12-05-ddg-vs-google/
        
         | spicybright wrote:
         | Startpage gives me wildly better results.
        
       | chriscappuccio wrote:
       | I would be more interested in subpoenas for user information than
       | "search warrants" which I'm sure most companies have near zero
       | since 2008 unless they have cartel tiea or whatever
        
       | joecool1029 wrote:
       | So the bangs (!) are super useful in DDG for handling the
       | limitations it has. As others have mentioned Google still wins
       | for super technical searches, but only just so. What we now see
       | for Google results for any niche topics is an 'uncanny valley' of
       | about half being valid results and the other half being
       | regurgitated spam/phishing sites with domains that usually end in
       | .it or .de.
        
         | mike_hock wrote:
         | I'm an Italo-German prince and just recently came into a huge
         | fortune.
        
         | kjaftaedi wrote:
         | Maybe it's just me, but I can't figure out how to do technical
         | searches in google anymore.
         | 
         | If I put something like the name of an obscure powershell
         | cmdlet in quotes, google ignores the quotes and then takes
         | words in the cmdlet and searches for variations of them
         | returning a mess of search results.
         | 
         | I've tried using plus signs and all sorts of other stuff that
         | used to work, but these days it seemingly just gives me what it
         | thinks I want, rather than what I asked for.
        
         | keneda7 wrote:
         | As a developer I agree with you. I try and use DDG for most of
         | my every day stuff. However on complex coding issues I almost
         | always find myself back on Google after a couple frustrating
         | minutes on DDG. I feel like a lot of this has to do with what
         | historical search data Google stores vs DDG.
        
         | beepbooptheory wrote:
         | I just discovered `hn!` the other day lol
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | rlpb wrote:
       | I finally switched my default to DDG after Google introduced
       | their mandatory nag permission box in Incognito windows. It
       | wasn't worth using Google any more after that. I use Incognito
       | often when generally searching the Internet to avoid having to
       | care about cookie-based tracking. Dealing with the nag just
       | wasn't worth it any more.
        
       | lancemurdock wrote:
       | I use StartPage over DDG. The results are just way better. Likely
       | because StartPage anonymously using google index.
       | 
       | However, for programming related questions I couldn't live
       | without google.
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | I use DDG for most things, and being totally honest, it's not
       | _quite_ as good as Google, but it 's pretty acceptable.
       | Occasionally I'll try the same search on Google, and sometimes
       | it's better. Not always.
        
         | yosito wrote:
         | > it's not quite as good as Google
         | 
         | Two years ago, I would have agreed. But Google has gotten
         | dramatically more spammy and full of ads recently. DDG has
         | better results for me 70% of the time.
        
           | lexapro wrote:
           | >and full of ads recently
           | 
           | Are there really people here that don't use uBlock Origin or
           | a different adblocker? I can't remember the last time I have
           | seen an ad on a screen.
        
             | skinnymuch wrote:
             | I don't. I don't pirate software either^. They are not the
             | same thing, but in both instances sometimes you will
             | negatively impact the little guy's bottom line. So I don't
             | do either.
             | 
             | Edit: to clarify. I don't think any less of any one for
             | doing whatever or me being better than any one.
             | 
             | ^there are exceptions. I'm sure if I needed to use
             | Photoshop for a day I'd do something akin to pirating. In
             | this case I don't think it's a big deal with Adobe being
             | worth $300B.
        
               | berkes wrote:
               | > negatively impact the little guy's bottom line
               | 
               | We are talking about Google here. How is blocking ads
               | from Google "impacting the little guys's bottom line"?
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | The posts were about blocking ads en mass. Not about
               | blocking Google specifically. It would be incredibly rare
               | for some one to get ublock or something similar and only
               | block multi billion dollar companies.
        
               | nitrogen wrote:
               | It's the smaller ad networks and obscure sites that are
               | more likely to have malware sneak into the ads, though,
               | so it's safer to block everything.
        
             | BoxOfRain wrote:
             | Whenever I'm on a new machine I get a momentary glimpse of
             | what an ungodly mess the Web is without adblockers. I'd
             | love to know what percentage of web users employ an
             | adblocker, I suppose as that number increases the remaining
             | users can expect to see an increase in both the volume and
             | visibility (and arguably obnoxiousness) of the ads.
        
             | scollet wrote:
             | This doesn't stop SEO promotion. However I can't say DDG
             | hasn't occasionally ranked some submarine results higher.
        
             | micah94 wrote:
             | I don't use adblockers because I need to see the web as the
             | 'users' see it. When I do use a blocker I always forget to
             | turn it off to do troubleshooting. Eventually I left it
             | off... I'll proxy or incognito or whatever when it need to.
        
           | HanaShiratori wrote:
           | How do you do that? I'm a huge DDG fan and am 99% degoogled,
           | force myself to use DDG every couple of weeks but always end
           | up back at Google, because from my experience it's just miles
           | better. Don't want to hate on DDG though, since there is
           | obviously a massive gap in resources between both projects.
        
             | yosito wrote:
             | I used to use the !s bang to get Google results via
             | Startpage, but I find myself doing it less and less.
        
             | the-pigeon wrote:
             | Great thing about using DDG is you can have both.
             | 
             | In my experience DDG is fine for general information but
             | Google is better for very specific information.
             | 
             | But DDG supports !Bang. So you can do "!g" in your search
             | bar for you specific query and it uses Google. Or "!w" to
             | go directly to wikipedia or "!a" to search Amazon.
             | 
             | There's over 10,000 of them https://duckduckgo.com/bang so
             | it's great for whatever sites you frequently look for
             | information on.
             | 
             | And can even do things like complex math equations with
             | "!wa" (Wolfram Alpha).
             | 
             | Point being, using DuckDuckGo as your default search engine
             | doesn't mean you are limited to its' results. Personally I
             | get the best of a lot of worlds by using it.
        
               | warent wrote:
               | Wow I had no idea about this! Actually going to make me
               | switch back to DDG
        
               | peakaboo wrote:
               | They really should market this more, its one of the best
               | features.
        
               | weaksauce wrote:
               | or use !sp and use google through a proxy
        
               | HanaShiratori wrote:
               | Yeah the problem about the bangs is that whenever I force
               | myself to use DDG again I will end up using the !sp bang
               | exclusively after around a week and decide to switch back
               | to Google a while after that, because typing !sp after
               | every search defeats the initial idea why I inteded to
               | use DDG in the first place. Until I hate myself for using
               | Google again and switch back. It's an endless cycle I
               | cannot escape :/
        
               | cyberbanjo wrote:
               | so you at least try with no bang first and find ddg
               | search results unsatisfactory? if you default to !sp
               | maybe it would be better to use use startpage as a search
               | engine, is it worse in some way than duckduckgo
               | (excluding obvious diff of bangs)
        
           | ufmace wrote:
           | I don't know the exact timeframe it changed, but I've really
           | noticed the difference around the last few months or so. It
           | feels like it's a lot more common for me to do a search in
           | Google that I would expect to have good results and be
           | genuinely surprised at how every page is total garbage.
        
         | Shared404 wrote:
         | And occasionally, Google is worse!
        
           | Lambdanaut wrote:
           | Particularly when searching for information that our
           | governments have been paid by corporations to keep us from
           | finding. Google is massively censored.
        
             | the-dude wrote:
             | Such a claim warrants some examples.
        
               | burnafter182 wrote:
               | How do you present examples when all it takes is a
               | narrative of "conspiracy theory" to dismiss them? We know
               | both government and corporations are, remain, and will
               | continue to remain corruptible. We know they've done bad
               | things, we know they do bad things, we know they can
               | continue to do bad things.
        
               | cmeacham98 wrote:
               | So to be clear you have no examples, or proof of any kind
               | for this claim?
        
               | mavhc wrote:
               | don't you see, the lack of examples is proof I am
               | correct!!!
        
               | berkes wrote:
               | Or citation, or any credible resource, really.
               | 
               | This reeks like Conspiracy Theory all through. And if it
               | is legit, that is a pity, because most, or many people
               | will dismiss it for "quacking like a Wacky Conspiracy
               | Theory".
        
               | AlbertCory wrote:
               | The assertion "<x> is a wing nut conspiracy theorist" is
               | itself a conversation-ender. Or at best, the opening to a
               | never-ending version of Culture Wars, V304,045.
               | 
               | Over the weekend we had a very civilized discussion about
               | tribal stupidity (prompted by the Dietrich Bonhoeffer
               | essay), and the reason it didn't descend into CW is that
               | _no one_ provided any examples. The instant anyone gave
               | an example, the particulars of that example would have
               | taken over.
               | 
               | So I can appreciate the desire for citations, but you
               | have to realize that if he'd provided any, everyone would
               | have just argued about _those_.
        
               | magicalist wrote:
               | > _and the reason it didn 't descend into CW is that no
               | one provided any examples. The instant anyone gave an
               | example, the particulars of that example would have taken
               | over._
               | 
               | On the other hand it's easy to think you're pontificating
               | wisely but you've become untethered from reality.
               | Absolutely it's easy for broad discussions to get
               | distracted by lawyering examples, but the GGP made a
               | specific claim, so they invited the request for evidence.
        
         | 1_player wrote:
         | DDG has never worked for me, and I've tried. While I've been a
         | happy Brave Search user since day 1. I'm not joking when I say
         | it's the best search experience after Google, by a mile.
        
           | pepperonipizza wrote:
           | Was very pleasantly surprise with brave search.
        
           | betwixthewires wrote:
           | I'm with you at this point.
           | 
           | I used to be a ddg user exclusively. The only time I use
           | google is when searching a location nearby. Ddg has gotten
           | worse over the last year or two, unusable almost for anything
           | that isn't current events. It is full of blog spam whenever I
           | search anything.
           | 
           | I've been using gigablast here and there, it's good for
           | obscure, completely organic search results, but that means
           | it's results feel like search before google existed. Brave
           | fills the gap for me, it feels like how google used to feel
           | before all the cruft started getting added in.
        
         | louthy wrote:
         | I rarely, very rarely, need to use !g in DDG searches these
         | days. I don't even really think about Google any more if I
         | can't find something, I usually just try a bit harder with DDG.
         | I'm a happy customer
        
         | rendall wrote:
         | If the results on DDG are not satisfactory, I prepend a _!g_
         | and try again.
         | 
         | https://duckduckgo.com/bang
        
           | NoImmatureAdHom wrote:
           | You can also append!
        
             | samb1729 wrote:
             | Or put it somewhere in the middle of your query! :)
        
           | Taywee wrote:
           | You might want to prefer !sp to !g if you want Google results
           | without compromising privacy. Startpage is just a privacy
           | proxy for Google results.
        
             | Errsher wrote:
             | Startpage was purchased by an advertising organization that
             | apparently "specializes in targeted advertising":
             | 
             | https://restoreprivacy.com/startpage-system1-privacy-one-
             | gro...
        
               | oblak wrote:
               | Startpage started aggressively monetizing a few months
               | ago. At least that's when I realized there are way more
               | paid results (ads) than before. I've been mooching for
               | years so I thought that's ok. Maybe the owner wants some
               | return for their money and I can live with scrolling a
               | few more paid results.
               | 
               | But they didn't stop there. I bailed as soon as they
               | started requiring js no matter what. They actively deny
               | access to the site without js enabled.
               | 
               | Oh well, it was nice while it lasted.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | I use it for everything, and I have no idea if it's as good as
         | Google or not because I've never needed to find out - that's
         | good enough for me.
        
       | franczesko wrote:
       | I used DDG for 2 years. Recently, I've been testing brave search,
       | which I personally think is much better.
       | 
       | They're investing in their own index, whereas DDG is just Bing,
       | but without tracking.
        
         | Minor49er wrote:
         | You don't count Amazon affiliate linking as tracking?
        
       | m0zg wrote:
       | The only alternative search that doesn't suck currently is Brave
       | - they're the only US-based search engine that has its own index.
       | Everybody else is using Google or Bing which exposes you to
       | algorithmic manipulation and censorship, if not outright
       | tracking. Curiously, though, it shows the same biases in image
       | search as Google: "straight couple" brings up gay couples, and
       | other well known "litmus test" searches are similar as well. In
       | fact almost the same selection of images as Google image search.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | majjam wrote:
       | Just on the offchance anyone from ddg reads this - a while I and
       | orhers requested a bang for search.marginalia.nu - a more old
       | school web search and would love it if I could !mg search :)
       | 
       | Edit for hn link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28550764
        
       | dyingkneepad wrote:
       | I use DDG as my default search engine and it works fine if what
       | you're searching is in English and is easy to find. When I'm
       | looking for an exact page and type stuff that I remember is there
       | Google always seems to find it, while DDG sometimes misses what I
       | want. Also, for programming terms that also may have other
       | meaning (e.g., python referring to snakes or programming), Google
       | seems to always get me what I want, while DDG may get royally
       | confused.
       | 
       | Now, when it comes to non-English, the fact that Google knows
       | what is my native language makes it 10000% better. I often type
       | stuff in my native language and those words are the same in
       | Spanish then DDG shows me a buch of stupid Spanish results, when
       | what I really wanted was my native language.
       | 
       | In the end I always end up reflecting that allowing the search
       | engine to learn stuff about you is indeed somewhat useful. Still,
       | DDG is the default search, Google will only get the queries it
       | handles better.
       | 
       | Edit: I guess DDG could try asking my browser about what language
       | it's configured in and prioritize that over Spanish....
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | too bad the results are not that good. when using duckduckgo you
       | have to be very specific or you just get unrelated crud
        
         | dandotway wrote:
         | Do you have recent real examples? 98% of the time for me both
         | DDG and Google pull up the same Wikipedia article or Stack
         | Overflow answer or Github repo or news story. Occasionally I
         | still do "!g" or "!gi" in DDG to see what Google has but less
         | and less.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | I just tried to plug in my most recent search from Google:
           | UnsafeVarint, where I was looking for the protobuf method.
           | Google gets me a direct hit to the source code. Perhaps
           | "unfair" because Google knows this result is relevant to that
           | search _for me_.
           | 
           | I put the same search into DDG and it gives me two mainsteam
           | media articles about COVID as #1 and #2. Useless. People who
           | defend Bing are just out of their minds.
           | 
           | Imagine defending a search engine by microsoft that top-ranks
           | irrelevant articles from its own wholly-owned subsidiary,
           | MSN. Just absolutely the worst search results anyone can
           | imagine.
        
             | julianlam wrote:
             | Interesting, because for me, the first result was the link
             | to the source code.
             | 
             | Does it work better for you if you surround the query in
             | quotes?
        
               | dandotway wrote:
               | > ...
               | 
               | EDIT: You are right, double quotes around "UnsafeVarint"
               | improve the result. Learned something new just now. : )
        
             | rPlayer6554 wrote:
             | My first result was something in another language but my
             | second result was the GitHub link for a file in protobuf.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | dandotway wrote:
             | I just tried "UnsafeVarint" in DDG and while #1 and #2 were
             | useless COVID hits as you said, DDG #4 was the same as
             | Google's #1 hit which was this GitHub issue:
             | 
             | https://github.com/tensorflow/models/issues/7420
             | 
             | Google's #2 hit for me was blogspam at "bankoftrans [dot]
             | com" that copied the source code for UnsafeVarint in order
             | to game Google search results. (A growing problem others in
             | this discussion have been complaining about.)
             | 
             | So Google isn't stellar for your search, either, though
             | perhaps it was working better for you because you were
             | logged in with your Google Account.
             | 
             | Like I said, I do still use Google via "!g" and "!gi" when
             | DDG's results are garbage, but often in these cases
             | Google's results are also junk.
        
             | jerf wrote:
             | "I put the same search into DDG and it gives me two
             | mainsteam media articles about COVID as #1 and #2. Useless.
             | People who defend Bing are just out of their minds."
             | 
             | Exactly what search query did you use? I just popped
             | "UnsafeVarint" (without quotes) into DDG and it's not
             | remotely "media articles about COVID".
             | 
             | I don't know whether it'll be what you want. It's clearly a
             | long-tail result in DDG as well, but it's at least mostly
             | programming stuff for me, and no COVID at all.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | NabiDev wrote:
       | how about searx
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | And you should believe them because they said so.
        
         | julianlam wrote:
         | Ha, well tinfoil hat on... Maybe they have not had to process
         | any search warrants, because the various three-letter agencies
         | know to just ask nicely and they'll hand it over.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | The conspiracy theorist in me says they get got a court order
         | to make the press release along with a warrant for some
         | information...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | intricatedetail wrote:
       | Anyone else noticed that Google results are 90% spam and lead to
       | malware gateways? The quality has drastically dropped recently. I
       | don't even use Windows to search out of fear I'll get a virus.
        
       | kuratkull wrote:
       | I find DDG good for queries where I know my answer will be one of
       | the top 5 results for sure. If I am skeptical about my question I
       | usually find G fetches better results. But DDG satisfies about
       | 90% of my queries so pretty happy with it.
        
       | avalys wrote:
       | I understand what they're trying to say, but...this would also be
       | true if they were just irrelevant.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | It would also be true if they were a ham sandwich, but since we
         | know they're not one, we ignore that possibility.
        
           | rudian wrote:
           | This reminded me of:
           | 
           | > If grandma had wheels she'd be a bicycle
        
             | AlbertCory wrote:
             | I thought of being sarcastic, but you've done it for me.
             | 
             | My version of that saying is "If my grandmother had wheels,
             | she'd be a bus" but this is fine, too.
        
           | avalys wrote:
           | Has anyone outside of the "I'm deeply concerned about online
           | privacy" brigade even heard of DuckDuckGo?
        
       | bredren wrote:
       | Warrants follow requests to compel sharing of information known
       | to exist.
       | 
       | So, DDG very well may have been served requests for available
       | information on a given user or IP, its just that the information
       | the company had was not enough for LEOs to request a warrant.
       | 
       | It's still impressive, but it would be interesting to know if
       | LEOs continue to ask, (as in, "has anything changed on your end
       | where now we can get this stuff?") or if LEOs know DDG is a dead
       | end and are no longer even making information requests.
        
       | allemagne wrote:
       | The unofficial consensus seems to be that "well DDG isn't as good
       | as google, but it's worth it because of privacy."
       | 
       | I've been using DDG almost exclusively for software engineering
       | work for roughly the last three years, and can't remember the
       | last time I felt like resorting to "!g", because I can't remember
       | resorting to Google ever actually solving my problem.
       | 
       | I don't at all discount the possibility that there's some extra
       | value I'm just able to forego without noticing, but is this
       | really a particularly unique experience for DDG users on HN?
        
         | JTon wrote:
         | I bang !g all the time still. Wish I didn't feel compelled to.
         | As a point of contrast: I'm not using DDG very often for work,
         | more so personal use.
        
         | kgermino wrote:
         | > [I] can't remember the last time I felt like resorting to
         | "!g", because I can't remember resorting to Google ever
         | actually solving my problem.
         | 
         | I use DDG by default and it covers most of my searches, but I
         | do have 2 main issues.
         | 
         | 1. Maps and business information is way better with Google.
         | 
         | 2. I usually work with Salesforce, which uses a lot of words
         | from the 'traditional' developer ecosystem, but is an entirely
         | separate world. Google "knows" that the method I'm looking for
         | is in the Apex string class, not the Java one.
         | 
         | It's not enough to get me to switch but I find a lot of
         | Salesforce related queries which give perfect results on
         | Google, but overly generic ones on DDG. I suspect that's a
         | common issue when you work in a more niche area where the
         | personalization is more valuable.
        
       | strombofulous wrote:
       | I can't help but feel like anyone who is celebrating this is just
       | going through a slightly modified thought process of
       | https://xkcd.com/538/
       | 
       | The fact that the government has never requested anything
       | probably just means they get it from somewhere else.
       | 
       | If there was actually a pedo-terror-arsonist on the loose using
       | ddg to find information on their targets, I'm very confident that
       | the government would still be able to figure out what they were
       | searching for
        
       | albatross13 wrote:
       | That's because the warrants all go to Bing, lol.
        
         | arkadiyt wrote:
         | Are you saying that DuckDuckGo passes the client ip address to
         | Bing?
        
           | bduerst wrote:
           | I think the bigger point here is that it's impossible to know
           | _either way_ because DDG doesn 't undergo independent
           | verification of their privacy.
           | 
           | It's closed-source code from a privately-owned, for-profit
           | corporation based in the U.S. We have no idea what
           | information they share or don't share, other than the claims
           | they make about themselves.
        
           | MerelyMortal wrote:
           | Or people look up "bad" stuff using that search engine (Bing
           | is notorious for porn).
        
           | chasil wrote:
           | Perhaps not everything.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo
           | 
           | "It uses various APIs of other websites to show quick results
           | to queries and for traditional links it uses the help of its
           | partners (mainly Bing) and its own crawler."
        
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