[HN Gopher] Open-sourcing the MuJoCo physics simulator for robotics
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       Open-sourcing the MuJoCo physics simulator for robotics
        
       Author : stokaasto
       Score  : 278 points
       Date   : 2021-10-18 15:20 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (deepmind.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (deepmind.com)
        
       | whinvik wrote:
       | A little off topic but is there a good library for physics
       | simulations that involve cloth modeling.
        
       | alhirzel wrote:
       | Does anyone know how this compares to e.g. Chrono?
       | 
       | https://github.com/projectchrono/chrono
        
       | rg111 wrote:
       | MuJoCo is _the_ standard in much of robotics, and recently in the
       | Deep RL space.
       | 
       | When I was learning Deep RL, I edged on what could be done
       | through OpenAI gym, or self-made environments, I decided to begin
       | working with MuJoCo.
       | 
       | But for an undergrad student from a developing country, the fees
       | were extremely high.
       | 
       | So, I just didn't go forward with Deep RL much. I dabbled for a
       | while and tried using PyBullet. Did not go that well.
       | 
       | Also thought about creating custom environments in Unity and then
       | apply Deep RL in there. But it took too much effort.
       | 
       | Creating a complex enough environment and getting used to it
       | were, in themselves- full projects that took long term
       | commitment.
       | 
       | As a result, I did not learn much Deep RL to be able to apply it
       | to complex, real-world-like scenarios.
       | 
       | I think that it is going to change.
       | 
       | I am excited about books, blogs, and videos that are going to be
       | created as MuJoCo is open-sourced and available for free.
       | 
       | I, personally, will get back into Deep RL the next opportunity I
       | get.
        
         | TaylorAlexander wrote:
         | I similarly did not get in to using MuJoCo because I want all
         | my work to be reproducible with open source. So I spent time
         | trying to get RL working in Godot video game engine, but ran in
         | to some road blocks. I know MuJoCo already has all the
         | necessary pipelines so this is exciting indeed!
        
         | 5faulker wrote:
         | It would still be a while that we achieve emergence (if that's
         | even possible) anyway, so time is kind of on our side.
        
         | EvgeniyZh wrote:
         | Pretty sure it had free educational license tho
        
           | rg111 wrote:
           | My uni was not rich enough to have an email server for
           | students.
           | 
           | So, I did not have a uni mail address.
           | 
           | That was required.
        
             | okay475008 wrote:
             | go to literally any college you can probably walk to one
             | near you if you live in a city, sign up for a basic
             | program, and get a free email address. sounds dumb, but if
             | you sign up to talk an extra language you'll have your
             | email address you so desperatly need in your life
        
           | CryingSofa wrote:
           | Somewhat. The free educational license was only acceptable
           | for 'personal' projects, so not suitable for class work.
        
             | Jeff_Brown wrote:
             | Surely that kind of use would have been fine. What they're
             | trying to do with that questionnaire must be to determine
             | if you're making money from the venture. You can share your
             | diary with others and still call it personal, after all.
             | (Once you get a publisher involved, not so much.)
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | > MuJoCo is a second-order continuous-time simulator,
       | implementing the full Equations of Motion
       | 
       | Are there any books describing how to implement this kind of
       | physics engine?
        
       | siekmanj wrote:
       | This is an amazing outcome. The license cost was a huge barrier
       | to entry and the progress of deep RL generally.
        
       | KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
       | Is this a competitor to physX?
        
         | 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
         | Nope. PhysX is all about realtime and gaming is the end use it
         | was designed around. TFA has a section about why that's bad.
         | The different end uses mean there are miles of differences
         | between them even though they're both physics simulators.
        
           | Voloskaya wrote:
           | A lot of RL problems can be adequately simulated in either
           | Mujoco or PhysX. So even though as you pointed out they have
           | key differences, there is a pretty big overlap in use cases.
           | So in that sense, I believe it still does qualify as
           | competition.
        
             | 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
             | I have personally spent tons of time dealing with models
             | exploiting physics issues. It's a major issue. It's true
             | that either can adequately simulate the setups, but is it
             | true that either can be equally exploited? I genuinely
             | don't know. I kinda assumed physx is more exploitable.
        
               | Voloskaya wrote:
               | I agree with you that PhysX is definitely easier to
               | exploit, and you will lose time because of that.
               | 
               | But on the other hand, for many problems, the gain in
               | training time using PhysX is just so massive (2 or 3
               | orders of magnitude), that you can then train with a much
               | more aggressive sim2real policy to mitigate that to some
               | extent, or even spend time debugging manually and still
               | ending up more productive.
        
               | tiborsaas wrote:
               | What kind of exploits are you talking about? Cheating in
               | games for example?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | hacoo wrote:
               | I think this is referring to inaccuracies of simulation
               | which the RL model can learn to exploit. Sort of a local
               | minimum that doesn't exist in the real world.
        
       | atty wrote:
       | I tend to be more than a little skeptical of organizations like
       | DeepMind and (especially) OpenAI lately, when it comes to their
       | pledges to democratize their advances in AI/ML/robotics. This,
       | however, is 100% a great move by DeepMind in the support of the
       | community as a whole. Kudos to the team, and a big thanks as
       | well.
        
         | querez wrote:
         | Pretty sure this was just a reaction to losing so much
         | mindshare to Brax since that came out.
        
           | nmca wrote:
           | Brax is dope, but it's a long long way from feature parity
           | with MuJoCo, which is world class.
        
           | Permit wrote:
           | My understanding is that DeepMind did not previously own
           | MuJoCo, but today they have acquired it and released it for
           | free.
           | 
           | On the other hand, Brax is developed by Google and is written
           | using Jax (which DeepMind loves and uses extensively).
           | 
           | Why would DeepMind have been concerned that people were
           | switching to Brax?
        
             | querez wrote:
             | Good point, I was not aware that Deepmind aquired MuJoCo
             | recently.
        
       | cepher wrote:
       | I wonder what this means for the future of Brax [1].
       | 
       | 1. https://github.com/google/brax
        
         | cyber_kinetist wrote:
         | Google Research already maintains the Bullet Engine as well
         | (although it mostly seems to be Erwin Coumans maintaing it)
         | 
         | Each have their own strengths, there is no "definitive" physics
         | engine. Bullet is probably the most generalist engine, but it
         | suffers a bit because of this approach (it's split between the
         | old 2.0 C++ API vs. the new PyBullet API with vastly different
         | functionalities)
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Can it do fluid simulations for aquatic robots?
        
       | modeless wrote:
       | Great news! It was a real issue that so much RL research relied
       | on non-free software. It was a problem that a big pile of money
       | could solve, so I'm glad someone with a big pile of money did :)
        
       | notesonbots wrote:
       | sfdsdf
        
         | AlexCoventry wrote:
         | You should favorite it, if you want to leave a placeholder on
         | it. It's a link near the top of the thread.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | a-dub wrote:
       | interesting. will they be including any biomechanical models as
       | part of the open sourced stuff?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jefft255 wrote:
       | This is really good news. It was a really contentious issue in RL
       | and robotics research to be so reliant on proprietary (and very
       | expensive) software.
        
         | asah wrote:
         | +1 - plus, it's an immediate barrier for attracting new people
         | to the field.
        
         | klowrey wrote:
         | There was a free license for individual users, with the non-
         | free license applicable to those who were receiving financial
         | support (i.e. academic / industry researchers, etc.). The
         | individual license was very popular and heavily utilized.
        
         | minimaxir wrote:
         | For more context on "very expensive," a MuJoCo license was
         | _several hundreds of dollars_.
        
           | GistNoesis wrote:
           | For reference here is the price before as seen on november
           | 2020 (previous internet archive screenshot), https://web.arch
           | ive.org/web/20201111235930/https://www.robot...
           | 
           | TLDR: personal non commercial 500$/year for usage on up to 3
           | computers personal commercial 2000$/year
        
           | cyber_kinetist wrote:
           | For undergrad students trying to dabble in reinforcement
           | learning, several hundreds of dollars can be quite a lot.
        
             | dekhn wrote:
             | as an undergrad in the 90s I invested thousands of dollars
             | of my own money to work on machine learning. Worth every
             | penny, even if I had to miss out on some cool parties.
        
               | regularfry wrote:
               | Wonderful that you had thousands of dollars as an
               | undergrad to be able to do so.
        
               | dekhn wrote:
               | Worked a job to pay for ram. It atypical.
        
               | NikolaeVarius wrote:
               | Working in undergrad isn't a common thing?
        
               | cdcarter wrote:
               | Well, if you're working to pay your rent, bills, and food
               | expenses, and you're only working part time (because
               | you're a full time undergraduate student), you may not
               | have a lot left over to pay for software licenses.
        
               | dekhn wrote:
               | which is precisely the reason I went with linux: so I
               | could maximize my hardware resources while eliminating
               | license costs. By not buying whatever MS compiler in
               | those days, I was able to max out my workstation with
               | 32MB RAM.
        
               | regularfry wrote:
               | Working in undergrad and having thousands left over after
               | paying for food and a place to sleep certainly can't be
               | assumed to be. That's where my pay went.
        
             | xwolfi wrote:
             | But they can accept that the world is not geared towards
             | amateur dabblers, and that a few hundreds of $ for a
             | license (a license, meaning to legalize production usage,
             | you can always copy from somewhere to "dabble") is nothing.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | Syntonicles wrote:
               | Well now they don't have to, because it really is
               | nothing.
        
               | ResearchCode wrote:
               | The CS world has certainly been geared towards the
               | hobbyist budget for some time now. Would be good to keep
               | it that way, even if it meant sacrificing a supposed 1%
               | extra accuracy in the latest "top conference" (sure if
               | their sponsors are the companies publishing huge models
               | it won't happen even if it should).
        
       | gautamcgoel wrote:
       | I wish someone would do this for MATLAB.
        
       | zokier wrote:
       | It seems great, but the simulation geometry options feel bit
       | limited? What would be really great would be the ability to
       | simulate scenes with objects imported from STEP/IGES files, so
       | you can do more of the modeling in actual CAD tools. Instead,
       | MuJoCo seems more oriented towards using its own primitives, not
       | sure how that works out with more complex situations.
        
       | bionhoward wrote:
       | This is huge for the open source ML community because so many
       | academic and commercial projects rely on MuJoCo which is out of
       | reach for folks working on hobby projects or at tiny startups.
       | This makes a lot more AI environments work for everyone. Major
       | props to DeepMind
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-18 23:00 UTC)