[HN Gopher] Startups are betting on a psychedelic gold rush
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       Startups are betting on a psychedelic gold rush
        
       Author : paulpauper
       Score  : 22 points
       Date   : 2021-10-17 21:12 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.vox.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.vox.com)
        
       | mistrial9 wrote:
       | money wants to tell the story like it is all about money -- who
       | knew?!
        
       | breck wrote:
       | I just listened to an interview with the director of the new
       | Center for the Neuroscience of Psychedelics at Massachusetts
       | General Hospital. If you're looking to build up a balanced
       | perspective on this subject worth a listen:
       | 
       | https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/keep-talking/episode-17...
        
       | tmpz22 wrote:
       | Is there anything startups won't bet on?
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | Moderation, apparently.
        
       | Kiro wrote:
       | What stocks should I buy?
        
         | crate_barre wrote:
         | Pretty sure any company in the legal marijuana business will
         | immediately add this product if it starts becoming more legal.
        
       | Fatboyrunning wrote:
       | The sale of drugs to non-addicts just doesn't scale.
       | 
       | Startups selling psychedelics want repeat customers.
       | 
       | Terence McKenna said he would take magic mushrooms less than once
       | per year.
       | 
       | I don't know what John Hopkins advises, but I would be surprised
       | if they advocated even greater than annual dosing after initial
       | treatment.
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | Microdosing treats psychedelics like supplements/vitamins, such
         | consumers are the epitome of a repeat customer.
        
           | andai wrote:
           | I was surprised recently to see an ad for microdosing
           | psilocybin (it's legal here). They don't even make an
           | extract, just grind it up and put it in capsules so it comes
           | with a disclaimer that the dosages are unpredictable.
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | I think there are some interesting treatment opportunities, but I
       | also really don't like the direction this is all going.
       | 
       | Locally, ketamine treatment clinics are popping up all over the
       | place. We have so many in my city that they're now competing with
       | each other in radio advertisements, inviting people to come on
       | down and get some ketamine for their depression, anxiety, PTSD,
       | or even vague symptoms like stress. One of them even had a
       | frequent visitor pass - Buy five ketamine sessions and the sixth
       | is free! Another was shut down for a while when they were caught
       | leaving patients unattended and one injured themself while on a
       | high dose of ketamine. They were found to not even be performing
       | screenings of patients - Anyone who showed up with cash got
       | ketamine.
       | 
       | But it doesn't stop there. Internet prescribers are taking
       | advantage of the temporary COVID rules changes for telehealth
       | controlled substance prescribing to give ketamine over the
       | internet. I won't name the company, but one specific provider is
       | known for providing prescriptions for exorbitantly high doses of
       | ketamine. From what I saw, nobody is turned away. If you're
       | willing to pay, you get a prescription for a lot of ketamine and
       | you don't even have to leave your house.
       | 
       | What makes this all worse is that ketamine is very much _not_ a
       | cure for depression. The antidepressant effects of ketamine are
       | famously short-lived, so it's used as a way to jump-start
       | traditional therapy in normal settings. Not so at these ketamine
       | clinics, which prefer you return to them for more and more
       | expensive treatments each time it wears off, at least until you
       | have such a high tolerance that it doesn't do anything at all for
       | the depression any more.
       | 
       | Whatever you think about the substances, I am not excited for a
       | wave of "growth hackers" at psychedelic startups brainstorming
       | ways to get people to pay for more and more ketamine or
       | psychedelic sessions to improve their numbers. I hope the
       | regulatory bodies step in and steer this back to sanity before
       | these startups cause so many problems that these substances
       | become untouchable again.
        
         | SashaShulgin wrote:
         | Sasha and Ann Shulgin famously believed that disassociatives
         | (e.g., ketamine, xenon, phencyclidine) have no safe role in
         | psychedelic therapy:                 "We are strongly
         | prejudiced against psychedelic drugs which cause such mind-body
         | separation, as we are against any drug which causes separation
         | from feelings and emotions. However, we acknowledge that the
         | ketamine state can be highly instructive for researchers trying
         | to understand the functions of the human mind."
         | 
         | Disassociatives are too addictive, too pleasurable, and
         | reliably produce long-lasting delusional states (e.g., as
         | observed in John C. Lilly and Marcia Moore).
         | 
         | For example, see D. M. Turner's "The Essential Psychedelic
         | Guide". Before he died in his bathtub (after injecting
         | ketamine), he wrote the following:                 "A major
         | concern regarding safe use of Ketamine is its very high
         | potential for psychological addiction. A fairly large
         | percentage of those who try Ketamine will consume it non-stop
         | until their supply is exhausted. I've seen this in friends I've
         | known for many years who are regular psychedelic users and have
         | never before had problems controlling their drug consumption.
         | And I've seen the lives of several people who developed an
         | addiction to Ketamine take downward turns."            "After
         | about two years of once-per-week Ketamine use I even found that
         | I had developed an addiction. Although it was less severe than
         | what I've described above, it took considerable effort to break
         | the cycle of repeatedly using it, even though I was aware of
         | detrimental effects that it was causing. Since that time I've
         | used Ketamine only occasionally, but find that I must
         | continually exercise a high degree of will power to prevent
         | myself from falling into a pattern of regular use. Amongst
         | those I know who use Ketamine, I've seen very few who can use
         | it in a balanced manner if they have access to it."
         | 
         | On the other hand, there are very useful and beneficial
         | tryptamines (e.g., psilocybin) and phenethylamines (e.g.,
         | mescaline). These drugs produce informative, useful,
         | introspective, challenging mental states and are NOT prone to
         | abuse. These are the valuable psychedelics.
        
           | crate_barre wrote:
           | Experienced drug users (loosely using that term, don't want
           | to call them drug addicts :p) will tell you not to even
           | attempt a psychedelic if you are not in the right headspace.
           | You'll have a bad trip. Is that still not the case? Isn't
           | depression about as bad a headspace you can be in to try this
           | stuff?
        
         | symlinkk wrote:
         | Why not let the free market work its magic? If ketamine doesn't
         | work, the word will get out and these places will go out of
         | business. People will self medicate with whatever is available
         | to them. If you lock up ketamine, people will reach for
         | alcohol.
        
           | hprotagonist wrote:
           | > Why not let the free market work its magic?
           | 
           | the literal snake oil market? no thanks.
        
           | klyrs wrote:
           | Look, I think that ketamine has some great potential... but
           | the medical (especially pharmaceutical) industry has shown
           | time and time again that regulation is absolutely necessary.
           | 
           | From what I've gleaned, low-dose ketamine is quite effective
           | at reducing treatment-resistant suicidal ideation, which can
           | be a literal life-saver and has very low risk. High-dose
           | ketamine (k-hole) is a significantly riskier proposition:
           | people can grow dependent on it, and it does significant
           | long-term damage to the body (and in the short term,
           | apparently, walking out of the clinic tripping balls and
           | getting injured). As an emergency emergency remedy
           | (treatment-resistant depression), paired with talk therapy,
           | the high-dose treatments may be promising.
           | 
           | A real risk is blowback: if the industry is too cavalier,
           | then there will be actually good reason to clamp down on it.
           | If the industry can get their shit together and be careful,
           | then there's no need for strict regulation. If the industry
           | blows its chance with public sentiment now, we won't have a
           | chance to see the positive effects for another few
           | generations.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-17 23:01 UTC)