[HN Gopher] Simon Roper: the 23-year-old reconstructing the past...
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       Simon Roper: the 23-year-old reconstructing the past for millions
       of viewers
        
       Author : ZeljkoS
       Score  : 170 points
       Date   : 2021-10-16 08:58 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.newstatesman.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.newstatesman.com)
        
       | _ph_ wrote:
       | Faszinatingly and not surprisingly, to me as a German the anglo-
       | saxon was almost understandable, English with a lot of German
       | words. Add in some dialect, some parts sounded rather nordic,
       | others rather like Swiss-German pronounciation.
        
       | aasasd wrote:
       | See also: about Shakespeare in the Early Modern English
       | pronunciation: https://youtu.be/gPlpphT7n9s
       | 
       | Specifically how some puns don't work with the pronunciation of
       | today, like the 'hour'.
        
       | DrBazza wrote:
       | This is really interesting. My grandparents were born in near
       | London Bridge around the turn of the 20th century, and their
       | accents were nothing like London/SE accents are now, even my
       | parents (if you consider current London accents to be Thames
       | Estuary / Eastenders / Danny Dyer).
       | 
       | Just typing this and watching that, makes me think, who would be
       | the 60 year mid point for that (1900-2020), and the most obvious
       | London actor I can think of is Bob Hoskins, and his accent was
       | different to what we have now. Recognisable as a London accent,
       | because we're familiar with it, and that generation is still
       | around.
        
       | resting123 wrote:
       | Is anyone else surprised by the fact that he is 23? He looks at
       | least 30 if not 40
        
       | tekkk wrote:
       | Good to see Simon is getting promotion. It's interesting to watch
       | someone have an authentic and deep passion for something which
       | they enjoy sharing in a down-to-earth manner. For example the
       | vocal shift video was quite revealing. Maybe one day he'll have
       | his own BBC documentary series.
        
         | FartyMcFarter wrote:
         | > For example the vocal shift video was quite revealing.
         | 
         | Did you mean vowel shift?
        
           | kwhitefoot wrote:
           | That's interesting. _Vowels_ in English are _vokaler_ in
           | Norwegian.
        
             | vidarh wrote:
             | Comes from latin vocalis in most European languages and
             | many non-European languages.
             | 
             | English got it via French, which is where the c
             | disappeared.
        
               | Someone wrote:
               | I expect the w appeared only in English, as the w is rare
               | in French (that's why it's a special case in braille. See
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braille#Derivation).
               | 
               | And indeed, Google gives me 'voyelle' as the French for
               | vowel.
        
               | vidarh wrote:
               | Yes, I'm aware. Both modern French and English got it
               | from Old French "vouel" and "voyeul", which if you speak
               | it - especially the first form - makes it clear how it
               | became "vowel" in English. Hence my point that the "c"
               | disappeared when it was borrowed from latin into (Old)
               | French.
        
       | cupcake-unicorn wrote:
       | Wow, exciting to see Simon on the front page. My background is in
       | linguistics so I've known this guy for a while on Youtube. He
       | adamantly claims his background isn't in linguistics but he's
       | legit. Go Simon!
        
         | e1g wrote:
         | This is refreshing to hear. So many similar infotainment
         | channels _seem_ enlightening, but as soon as they cover topics
         | or regions of the world I 'm deeply familiar with, I get
         | disillusioned by misrepresentations. So often, it's not due to
         | compression but to cherry-picking examples to heighten the
         | drama or their conclusions.
        
       | WalterBright wrote:
       | > He watches TV footage from the 1970s and focuses in on the
       | people strolling about in the background. The pandemic enhanced
       | his sense that the most mundane parts of life are what will make
       | the past come alive in the future.
       | 
       | I lived through the 70s. Some movies from them are curiously
       | nostalgic to me, as the way people dress, talk, and behave has
       | significantly changed.
        
       | Accacin wrote:
       | I recently discovered this guy too. I'd highly recommend any of
       | his videos with Jackson Crawford who is a Norse language expert.
        
       | mongol wrote:
       | In my ears many of the early examples sound like English with
       | strong Swedish accent ("Swenglish"). As if a Swedish AI-voice
       | tried to read out English text. Now, it is more likely influenced
       | by the norse ancestors, and they were not from Sweden as much as
       | Norway and Denmark, but still...
        
         | sillyquiet wrote:
         | You'd probably be interested in seeing the collaboration he did
         | with Old Norse linguist Dr. Jackson Crawford in which he and
         | Dr. Crawford had a scripted but mutually intelligible
         | conversation in Old English and Old Norse.
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKzJEIUSWtc
        
         | kkoncevicius wrote:
         | Being from Lithuania I noticed that too. These old English
         | words sound just as if some Lithuanian student would be reading
         | English text for the very first time and uttered each letter
         | just how it was meant to sound in Lithuanian.
         | 
         | I suspect that over-time English, for some reason, lost the
         | correspondence between the pronunciation and writing of their
         | language. For example in Lithuanian I cannot think of a world
         | where someone would have trouble reading the word after seeing
         | how its spelled. Also, interestingly, we don't have "spelling
         | bee" type competitions here.
        
         | sigg3 wrote:
         | Tbh, Norwegian, Swedish and Danish languages are all bastard
         | editions of each other. It's like the weird Northern offshoot
         | of Germanic.
         | 
         | Source: am Norwegian. Not an expert by any means.
        
           | vidarh wrote:
           | It's not just "like" the Northern offshoot of Germanic, they
           | _are_ North Germanic languages, like English is a West
           | Germanic language.
           | 
           | The similarity is even stronger if you compare with Low
           | German (most common in the North), which didn't go through
           | the consonant shift of the now dominant High German (e.g.
           | day: Norwegian dag vs. Low German Dag vs. High German Tag)
        
         | vidarh wrote:
         | While there's probably (I'm not a linguist) direct Norse
         | influence too, English is a West Germanic language, and so the
         | further back you go the less Norman and French influence has
         | diluted the Germanic foundation of the language shared with
         | e.g. the Scandinavian languages, Dutch and German (the
         | relationship with German is more obvious if you include the now
         | relatively uncommon older Low German dialects that used to
         | dominate Northern Germany - you get a continuous map with much
         | more gradual changes).
        
           | Bayart wrote:
           | The phonological history of English doesn't have much to do
           | with French. English could have had its entire vocabulary
           | replaced by French while still being grammatically and
           | phonologically the same.
           | 
           | Internal linguistic processes are much stronger than outside
           | influences.
        
             | vidarh wrote:
             | You're probably right it was less significant, but both
             | Norse and French have certainly contributed sounds to
             | English.
             | 
             | Scandinavian speakers tend to struggle with the w/v
             | distinction at the start of words for example, because most
             | of our dialects do not have a distinction like that and so
             | many of us learn one of them and use it all over the place.
             | English appear to have imported the sound as in vacation
             | when it imported most of the words (including valley)
             | starting with it.
             | 
             | Another example is how when I first learned English in
             | Norway the teacher spent a whole lesson early on drilling
             | the pronunciation of the ch in chair (from Old French;
             | compare "stol", Norwegian for chair vs. English "stool")
             | because the sound was completely foreign to us but
             | confusingly similar to e.g. the skj in skjorte (shirt; the
             | skj is pronounced almost the same as the sh in shirt,
             | depending on dialect)
             | 
             | So it may have had less impact on changing the phonology of
             | Germanic words in particular (though I'm curious about some
             | as Norman French changed the orthography of many words that
             | used to be pronounced in the Germanic way but that now
             | match the Norman orthography - e.g. hus to house - did the
             | pronunciation change first?), but the sheer volume of
             | French words that in at least some cases brought with them
             | different sounds means it certainly contributed to the
             | overall English phonology appearing more foreign to us.
        
       | xcambar wrote:
       | > Did the Nineties really feel like a period of stability? Or
       | does it just feel like chaos now because I'm an adult?
       | 
       | I was born a good decade before him but still wonders this very
       | question. I asked my older friends and family, and it appears
       | (empirically) that... there's no clear answer.
       | 
       | There's actually something specific about our times (information
       | technology, ecology, western world mostly at peace for 70+
       | years...) but it very much relates to how much you look and feel
       | about the world surrounding you.
       | 
       | The true difference is that much more people are aware and
       | worried about the state of the world in our times than before. In
       | that sense, the chaos seems much more apparent than it used to
       | be.
       | 
       | Of course, this is anecdotal, not an evidence in any way :)
        
         | vidarh wrote:
         | A lot of the chaos just wasn't apparent before because the
         | information flow was slower more than because people didn't
         | care.
         | 
         | E.g. look at any news event, and consider how differently it
         | looks if you only look at print news and one daily news
         | broadcast vs. if you look at the same event online, with
         | conflicting narratives, easy access to how foreign news media
         | describes something, speculation, and far more granular
         | reporting.
         | 
         | Everything looks a lot more coherent and certain with just a
         | few viewpoints and a couple of updates a day because you miss a
         | lot of the mistakes and changing opinions and differences in
         | bias.
        
       | coldtea wrote:
       | > _Did the Nineties really feel like a period of stability? Or
       | does it just feel like chaos now because I'm an adult?_
       | 
       | Yes, the nineties did feel like a period of stability.
       | 
       | In some countries this went well into 2005 or so.
       | 
       | In others, like the US, I guess 2001 (9/11) was a major turning
       | point.
       | 
       | And after the 2008 crisis, things went downhill faster.
        
         | datameta wrote:
         | In countries of the former USSR, the 90s were a period or rapid
         | decline, with the 2000s being a slow return.
        
         | scarecrowbob wrote:
         | It really depends on where you're at and who you're with.
         | 
         | In the US, I remember the insurrections following the trials
         | related to Rodney King, the Branch Dividans being burned to
         | death, and the milita movement blowing up an FBI building
         | (among many other kinds of things).
         | 
         | That doesn't touch the reworking of former areas of the USSR,
         | the first gulf war, and the various issues with asian
         | economies.
         | 
         | I was in high school; it's much easier for me to think that the
         | feelings of stability I felt at the time came from my parent's
         | professional success and the various booms in markets that they
         | were able to capitalize on rather than some more systematic
         | stability...
        
       | maybelsyrup wrote:
       | This guy appeared in my YouTube recommendations a few months
       | before the pandemic. They were there for weeks before I actually
       | clicked on one, strangely persistent given the titles and
       | screencaps on the videos: "What did middle English sound like?"
       | next to this grubby college kid's face. What about my viewing
       | habits to date triggered this recommendation?
       | 
       | When I finally relented and clicked on one, it was kind of
       | hypnotic. It's hard to put to words: the content is really
       | interesting for all the reasons laid out in the article, but
       | there's something else, too, an atmospheric thing. The guy's
       | voice is almost a whisper, the ambient sounds from the garden or
       | the forest or the road are oddly pleasant, and he's speaking
       | pretty slowly, with none of these glitchy quick cuts you see in a
       | lot of YT content. It's also unusually personal-feeling, like
       | he's just talking to you.
       | 
       | It's all pretty dreamlike, I guess. Especially when I stand back
       | and realize I've been watching videos about Cumbrian accents for
       | like two hours. I'm not even interested in this stuff.
       | 
       | Kudos to this guy, he's clearly hit upon something, even if he is
       | some kind of witch.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | Praise the algo!
        
         | Azaks wrote:
         | He hasnt hit upon anything. Other than for himself.
         | 
         | Youtube etc is like throwing sugar around a gigantic ant hill
         | and watching ants reacts. The ants dont change into anything
         | sophisticated consuming all that sugar.
         | 
         | Learning takes time. Its requires the right environment and
         | experienced guides.
         | 
         | There are no shortcuts. And the chimp troupe learns that lesson
         | again and again every single time they think they have
         | discovered one.
        
           | celticninja wrote:
           | I think you do people a disservice. I'm not sure the video
           | are supposed to do anything other than pass on information to
           | viewers. Some of those viewers my use the information, some
           | may pass it on to others, some may act on it to research
           | further and many will do nothing but absorb the content and
           | move on. Is there a problem with any of that? Is there a
           | difference between this guy and a non-fiction author of a
           | specific subject? We don't expect non-fiction author to
           | revolutionise the lives of everyone that reads their book do
           | we?
        
         | jmcgough wrote:
         | > The guy's voice is almost a whisper, the ambient sounds from
         | the garden or the forest or the road are oddly pleasant, and
         | he's speaking pretty slowly, with none of these glitchy quick
         | cuts you see in a lot of YT content. It's also unusually
         | personal-feeling, like he's just talking to you.
         | 
         | This is how I feel about TheReportOfTheWeek, aka Reviewbrah. He
         | reviews fast food items in his house or backyard in a single
         | take and averages 100k-200k views per video (with some
         | outliers). No fancy editing, no team of video assistants, just
         | a genuinely charming guy reviewing cheap food in a nice suit in
         | front of a fixed camera.
        
           | cableshaft wrote:
           | As someone who records videos without editing, that one take
           | video could still be 19th or 30th take :) Although he's
           | probably practiced enough he can do it in less than that. For
           | me though, I have to restart a bunch of times. Usually that
           | final take still has flubs, but it had the least glaring
           | ones.
           | 
           | The ones I do are usually rules explanations or brief
           | overviews of my game designs that are intended to enter into
           | contests or pitch the game to publishers, often finished
           | right before the deadline (sometimes just an hour before) so
           | I don't have time to video edit even if I wanted to.
           | 
           | Like here's the most recent one I did, for a dice puzzle coop
           | zombie themed game (I know zombies are an overused theme, I
           | wasn't even trying to design a zombie themed game at first,
           | it just fit the mechanisms best). Still screwed up a few
           | things:
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/uEBKKW7I8RM
        
         | g3e0 wrote:
         | > The guy's voice is almost a whisper, the ambient sounds from
         | the garden or the forest or the road are oddly pleasant, and
         | he's speaking pretty slowly, with none of these glitchy quick
         | cuts you see in a lot of YT content. It's also unusually
         | personal-feeling, like he's just talking to you.
         | 
         | This sounds very much like ASMR. I find the most
         | relaxing/entrancing videos are the ones that are
         | unintentional/not forced, although obviously personal
         | preferences do vary.
        
           | verytrivial wrote:
           | I watched a video of a friend of mine who's become a semi-
           | prominent Zen teacher. After a few moments of listening to
           | one of his (rather lovely) pandemic/Zoom group meditations,
           | it struck me that this was weirdly close to ASMR too --
           | intimacy, calm, human "touch". Philosophy too, yes, but the
           | interpersonal dynamic is a mother cooing into your ear. I
           | wonder if this resets you into some calm, receptive mood
           | because that's an evolutionarily advantageous state to be in,
           | and the cooing is a shortcut to it.
        
         | phreeza wrote:
         | I had almost exactly the same experience. For all it's
         | downsides, sometimes the YouTube algorithm does do some pretty
         | marvelous things.
        
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