[HN Gopher] Wearable Microphone Jamming
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Wearable Microphone Jamming
        
       Author : graderjs
       Score  : 308 points
       Date   : 2021-10-16 05:20 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (sandlab.cs.uchicago.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (sandlab.cs.uchicago.edu)
        
       | buzzwords wrote:
       | Interesting trial. But I'm sure there will be techniques to clean
       | the noise out.
        
         | pzo wrote:
         | I'm wondering too. I had a glimpse at a paper and it seems it
         | works because even though ultrasound is "inaudible to humans,
         | still leaks into the recorded speech due to non-linear
         | amplification of the microphone's circuit". The chart thought
         | shows the leakage has small dB (-20) in audible spectrum.
         | 
         | Too bad researches didn't leave any samples of recording in the
         | repo. Curious how it would be effective after: 1) filtering
         | frequencies to 0-16kHz 2) getting 1-2sec sample duration of
         | noise profile while nobody speaks and using noise reduction
         | filter from audacity
        
           | grandinj wrote:
           | lots of circuits will fold higher frequencies down into lower
           | frequencies (but at lower energy).
           | 
           | If you can generate enough energy, you can push enough energy
           | into other circuits that they saturate (reach the end of
           | their working range) and will output noise.
        
             | Johnythree wrote:
             | Non-linear circuits lots of circuits will fold higher
             | frequencies down into lower frequencies
        
               | grandinj wrote:
               | Pretty much most circuits are non-linear, for real-world
               | circuits "linear" just means "linear within normal
               | operating range"
        
           | lvturner wrote:
           | Download the audio from the YouTube video at the top of the
           | page - it has a sample in it
        
           | snovv_crash wrote:
           | The idea is that the analogue components are saturated
           | already so there's no available margin for the lower
           | frequencies to further actuate the diaphragm or amplifier.
        
       | NullPrefix wrote:
       | >It prevents [...] our camera from eavesdropping on the
       | conversation
       | 
       | How does it prevent the camera from filming speakers' lip
       | movements?
        
       | justshowpost wrote:
       | > * denotes equal contribution
       | 
       | Wow, this otherwise typical four-student team was that equity-
       | stuffed to maintain some level of equal outcome.
       | 
       | But... they completely forgot what emitting loud noise is
       | illegal.
        
       | Zenst wrote:
       | Fascinating and I like how cheap it can be made - those
       | ultrasonic emitters are right of a HC-SR04 by looks of it and
       | those are cheap as (got half dozen for PS1 each few months back).
       | 
       | I did start a project to jam gopro's (audio and visual recording)
       | - was combination of IRDA emitters and resonance inducing the
       | housing - but this is less niche and focused. My design was to
       | use a hat with sensor emitters attached. Though canned progress
       | after friend asked if it could disable a police body-cam, of
       | which I said no and yet it probably would and morally weighed up
       | the pro's and con's and canned that.
        
       | ris wrote:
       | Are they not able to just use phase shifts and beamforming on the
       | transducer array instead of the odd keep-moving-your-bracelet
       | design?
        
         | pepoluan wrote:
         | The case would be if someone is recording you with a microphone
         | placed somewhere unknown in the room. With the bracelet, and
         | humans' tendency to move their arms while speaking, microphones
         | around the room will be jammed at least part of the time.
        
           | ris wrote:
           | But you could surely just randomly vary the beamforming to
           | get the same effect, right?
        
             | Raidion wrote:
             | Beam still has to be in the direction of the mic, which
             | wouldn't help if your body is blocking most of the direct
             | waves. You get some scattering, sure, but I think
             | ultrasonic is pretty absorbable, right?
        
       | antattack wrote:
       | Now we know a possible cause of the Havana Syndrome...microphone
       | jamming.
        
       | jataget wrote:
       | No person shall make, continue, or cause to be made or continued
       | any loud, unnecessary or unusual noise or any noise which either
       | annoys, disturbs, injures, or endangers the comfort, repose,
       | health, peace, or safety of others, within the limits of the
       | city.
       | 
       | For more information, visit the "Noise Pollution" section of the
       | City of Dayton's Municipal Code website.
        
       | Goety wrote:
       | How quickly are they going to go commercial with this?
        
         | soylentnewsorg wrote:
         | No one is going to buy this. It doesn't jam your voice at all.
         | It introduces enough distortion and noise so that computer
         | speech recognition software gets 4/5 words wrong.
         | 
         | Let me make a comparison. Claim: Those capchas with "type in
         | the word you see" have an error rate of 4/5 letters when read
         | by a computer. Yet here we are, humans, reading them just fine.
         | 
         | Now, if you're a conspiracy theory fake elected moon landing
         | virus hoax person who is afraid of the government having
         | microphones everywhere, running a keyword search on microphones
         | placed around the park.... Still not a jammer - I'm sure
         | whatever voice recognition software this thing confuses, the
         | government has much better ones. Simply from the fact that most
         | of the people they're interested in have accents so thick it's
         | worse than some added "jammer" noise.
         | 
         | But to answer your question, "sounds" like they're trying to go
         | commercial soon, because their announcement of this dirt simple
         | product sounds like a cheap advertisement for some dick
         | enlarging pills. meanwhile, your phone speaker can make sonic
         | sounds since they support a sample rate of over 44khz. So can
         | your computer.
         | 
         | here you go. you can google and download some files to play
         | too.
         | https://mynoise.net/NoiseMachines/audioJammerNoiseGenerator....
        
           | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
           | > Yet here we are, humans, reading them just fine.
           | 
           | I've met a lot of captchas that I couldn't reliably solve. I
           | guess that proves I'm a robot.
        
             | oakfr wrote:
             | Same here. My guess is that they constantly AB test/explore
             | captchas to push the envelope of genuine humans users in
             | order to make it as hard as possible for the bots.
        
           | midasuni wrote:
           | I'm not worried about the government spying on my
           | individually, the resources to fight that would be impossible
           | 
           | I am worried about large companies spying on me en mass (and
           | selling or leaking that information). That requires
           | automation (voice/face recognition), it's also reality, not a
           | conspiracy theory, alas I do see it as inevitable and there
           | only so much you can do to fight it.
        
           | red0point wrote:
           | So what is the effect in the first part of the video on the
           | website then? Are you saying they've faked it?
        
             | Johnythree wrote:
             | It just relies on cheap microphones being fairly non-
             | linear.
             | 
             | A quality microphone, with a decent low-pass-filter would
             | be immune to this kind of hack.
             | 
             | Think about it, why aren't our ears affected?
        
               | soylentnewsorg wrote:
               | > why aren't our ears affected
               | 
               | they're affected listening to the raw microphone capture.
               | that's because the noise generated is much louder than
               | the speech. so listening to raw microphone capture with
               | this thing on, you can't make out words at all - just a
               | few syllables here and there. the key is that the full
               | voice signal is still captured by the microphone. you
               | then filter out the additional noise (your conference
               | software and laptop microphone does that at a shitty
               | level, rtx voice is the top consumer product for this).
               | once the noise is gone, you have only the original voice.
               | due to the filtering, the original voice is very lightly
               | garbled, which is enough to confuse voice recognition
               | software, not your ears.
               | 
               | notice how they're using voice recognition to measure
               | success? that's misleading and on purpose. if they used a
               | person to see if this product is effective, the result
               | would be - the product is literally nothing but a loud
               | noisemaker which in zero ways does what it says it does.
               | 
               | now, I don't have an rtx. if you want to screw around,
               | here's a very shitty two megabyte software version of
               | what rtx voice does, it's open source and just a couple
               | of meg. https://antlionaudio.com/blogs/news/free-active-
               | noise-suppre...
               | 
               | a low pass filter, or a nice microphone would not help
               | you at all here - the white noise is in the vocal range
               | and no simple frequency filter is going to remove it.
               | their product makes ultrasonic noise, which (probably due
               | to microphone resonance) makes the mic vibrate in the
               | audible range. again, not affecting the original voice
               | signal, so it's loud white noise overlaid on top of the
               | voice.
               | 
               | it does seem putting something in front of the mic that
               | absorbs ultrasonic frequency but not lower voice
               | frequencies works well to block this. which is why the
               | thin plastic waterproofing film over the phone microphone
               | completely blocks this product - no noise removal filter
               | needed.
               | 
               | So literally any smartphone with water resistance
               | bypasses this thing and records fine. for the rest, just
               | run a noise removal filter on the recording and listen to
               | it. for governments, I'm sure their spy mics are
               | waterproof and immune, and if not, their voice
               | recognition is better than whatever consumer tech these
               | guys tested it on.
        
             | soylentnewsorg wrote:
             | No, I'm saying that does literally nothing but add noise.
             | It does not block or change the original signal in any
             | significant way for human ears - only for consumer-level
             | voice recognition software. Which is extremely crappy even
             | without noise for anything more complex than "hey google
             | play some ads in the middle of this song."
             | 
             | Once you take the noise out, the voice recognition software
             | has problems recognizing the words. People do not. You can
             | take the noise out at home with lots of different software
             | or hardware. Skype/teams/zoom do this on a very basic level
             | by default - as do most microphone audio drivers in
             | windows. Once it's taken out, distortion from the noise is
             | just enough to make the voice recognition miss a bunch of
             | words. Human ears do just fine though.
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3zdGza5zeI
        
               | jtbayly wrote:
               | There is a short sample of audio in the YouTube link.
               | Your video is not even remotely similar in sound. If you
               | could take the audio from the original and extract easy
               | (for humans) to understand speaking, your confidence that
               | this won't work would be obviously justified. But so far
               | you don't appear to have even understood how the device
               | works.
        
               | soylentnewsorg wrote:
               | The device literally generates white noise. It's clearly
               | stated in the article. It adds a white noise track on top
               | of the existing sound. It does not change the original
               | vocal track - it just lays noise on top of that.
               | 
               | Are you telling me that the white noise in their link is
               | dissimilar to the sound of the train blowing air into the
               | microphone? You have to be kidding me - did you even
               | watch the rtx video? Click some others too. It filters
               | lawnmowers and all kinds of stuff.
               | 
               | > Your video is not even remotely similar in sound. uh-
               | uh. sure. sorry buddy, not going to bother having this
               | conversation with a deaf person.
        
           | Fnoord wrote:
           | This is great for meetings. Don't have to ask everyone to put
           | their smartphone off. Just be in a private room without
           | cameras (against lipsync and other private details leaking
           | such as notes).
           | 
           | Re: Your computer/phone can make noise. They use an Arduino
           | to power this thing, and it manages to block with natural
           | body movement.
           | 
           | I'm pretty sure this is going to ruin ANC headsets too
           | though.
        
         | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
         | I've seen such devices openly sold years ago, and heard of them
         | probably a decade ago (meaning you could buy them well before
         | that if you had the right contacts, but unless either spying or
         | preventing it is your job, you wouldn't have those).
        
       | chrischen wrote:
       | I can see the next paper being extracting jammed audio signals
       | using deep learning.
        
       | josephh wrote:
       | Interesting to note that someone opened an issue in the linked
       | GitHub repo mentioning that the system doesn't work with iPhone 8
       | and above:
       | 
       | https://github.com/y-x-c/wearable-microphone-jamming/issues/...
       | 
       | edit: Looks like (from the reply) it's the waterproofing membrane
       | over mic that's rendering the jammer useless.
        
         | Zenst wrote:
         | That may well be fixable, case of what is the resonant
         | frequency of the water protection an tuning this to induce
         | resonance to overload the sensor - may well work. Though
         | inducing resonance in the glass screen may well achieve the
         | results.
         | 
         | I'd also be interested in testing this with contact mics as
         | from my experiences - this may not work upon those at all.
        
         | Semiapies wrote:
         | So, if you're recording a cop in the next few years, make sure
         | to use a waterproof phone.
        
           | Fnoord wrote:
           | Police wont't generally use something like this as it would
           | interfere with bodycam which includes a microphone.
        
             | alpaca128 wrote:
             | > it would interfere with bodycam which includes a
             | microphone.
             | 
             | That's the point. Many cops do not like the fact that the
             | bodycam also records them to a degree. At least the ones
             | getting caught planting drugs in stopped cars or
             | mistreating people because they forgot about the cam.
        
             | ohazi wrote:
             | That would likely be seen as a feature
        
             | oreilles wrote:
             | That is unless they use waterproof body cam.
        
             | worik wrote:
             | How sweet!
        
             | sitic wrote:
             | "Police officers in Beverly Hills have been playing music
             | while being filmed, seemingly in an effort to trigger
             | Instagram's copyright filters."
             | 
             | https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvxb94/is-this-beverly-
             | hills...
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | Apparently numerous jurisdictions.
               | 
               | Alamdeda County, California:
               | 
               | https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20210911/21360647545/of
               | fic...
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28546242
        
               | FractalParadigm wrote:
               | What I find ironic, is the police are doing a copyright
               | infringement (unauthorized public performance of these
               | songs) in order to infringe on citizens' rights. Why are
               | record companies not more pissed about this?
        
               | concordDance wrote:
               | It's not performance as there's the lack of intent to
               | have others hear it and few will. You can play music for
               | yourself in public even if others overhear.
        
               | shkkmo wrote:
               | Doesn't playing a song with the explicit intention of
               | having it be recorded count as having intent to perform?
        
               | pbhjpbhj wrote:
               | It's really curious in this case though, the intent is
               | for the music to trigger automated software that prevents
               | performance. Hard to classify that as 'intent to perform'
               | especially with USA's Fair Use.
               | 
               | My understanding is in UK causing a recording to be made
               | (whether viewed or not) would be infringing. We have Fair
               | Dealing but it's extremely restrictive compared to Fair
               | Use.
               | 
               |  _Just my personal, private opinion._
        
               | Tenoke wrote:
               | Because they don't lose money over it the way they do
               | over other types of unauthorized public performances.
        
               | _jal wrote:
               | I think I'd phrase that a bit differently.
               | 
               | Extracting cash by threatening mom and pop restaurants
               | for playing the radio is old hat, nobody cares.
               | 
               | Threatening cops over it is going to attract attention.
        
               | jMyles wrote:
               | Does it suggest that system of IP is genuinely designed
               | and deployed to protect art? Or capricious exercise of
               | state power?
        
               | randombits0 wrote:
               | I will double down with, no, the system of IP is not
               | intended to protect art. The whole concept of IP is
               | antithetical to the intent of copyright.
               | 
               | "Article I, Section 8, Clause 8, of the United States
               | Constitution grants Congress the enumerated power "To
               | promote the progress of science and useful arts, by
               | securing for limited times to authors and inventors the
               | exclusive right to their respective writings and
               | discoveries.""
               | 
               | https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/intellectual_property_cla
               | use
        
               | labcomputer wrote:
               | Because it doesn't have any impact on sales, and the
               | executives of those companies don't want to pick a fight
               | with the local police (who could practically, if not
               | legally, retaliate though various means)
        
               | garyfirestorm wrote:
               | Why can't instagram distinguish between a public
               | performance vs a cop playing music. Should be pretty easy
               | to do.
        
               | spicybright wrote:
               | Doubt it. Copyright violation detected is fully automated
               | for the most part, and very good at detection regardless
               | of background noise.
               | 
               | You would need a human viewing footage and listening for
               | every single post to determine this.
        
               | pbhjpbhj wrote:
               | The challenge is determining between music playing in the
               | background of a real-life arrest, vs the same for a
               | fictional arrest where they would want to claim copyright
               | usage fees.
               | 
               | That's a hard job for most people, nevermind an automated
               | system where the copyright holder doesn't care about
               | false positives.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | The cops are not trying to post their footage to the
               | socials. They want you to not be able to do it. If they
               | need their footage, it's to prove you were being an
               | asshat and deserved whatever happened to you. If you need
               | their footage, it'll mysteriously not be available for
               | some technical or clerical error.
        
               | Fnoord wrote:
               | Its to provide a PoV from the police officer, yes.
               | Because the PoV of the other side (whatever it might be)
               | may omit details, or could've been tampered with. You're
               | right that it is in the interest of the police (in
               | general, not necessarily the police officer), but if
               | details like sound are not available that only hurts
               | their case.
        
               | joshstrange wrote:
               | > if details like sound are not available that only hurts
               | their case.
               | 
               | Unless the cop is saying things they shouldn't be saying.
               | I think you are missing the point of the comment you are
               | replying to. They are saying that cops only use that
               | footage when it benefits them (that's assuming the
               | footage exists and they didn't "forget to turn on their
               | camera") and when it doesn't benefit them then they won't
               | release it or the footage might get "lost". Also the
               | police have been known to edit or post misleading footage
               | to their own gain.
        
               | Fnoord wrote:
               | 'Their own gain', the police work for the public
               | interest. If that isn't the case, something is wrong with
               | your police force.
               | 
               | I get such point is popular with people who are cynical
               | to authorities, and I get that in the context of racism
               | in USA.
               | 
               | Here in The Netherlands they are always recording, and
               | when the cop pushes it on, it saves the last minute
               | before the cop pushed the button as well, for context.
               | 
               | The police are not allowed to tamper with evidence in a
               | court of law. Nowhere in the world is this allowed.
        
               | joshstrange wrote:
               | > 'Their own gain', the police work for the public
               | interest. If that isn't the case, something is wrong with
               | your police force.
               | 
               | I agree. Something is very wrong with our police force.
               | Also, it might not be allowed anywhere in the world but
               | it absolutely happens in most of not all places (police
               | getting away with tampering with evidence).
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | Why depend on their footage? We need to record them
               | ourselves. Counter their surveillance with our own
               | sousveillance.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | It's almost like you missed the point. The cops are
               | playing music because someone else is recording them.
               | That is the counter surveillance.
        
               | speedybird wrote:
               | Copyrighted music won't prevent video of cops breaking
               | the law from being used in court, so don't let that
               | tactic dissuade you from recording the police.
        
               | hulitu wrote:
               | In many countries this is unauthorised broadcasting.
        
             | malka wrote:
             | That is exactly why they would use something like this.
        
           | justshowpost wrote:
           | Maybe just don't commit street crimes.
        
             | fidesomnes wrote:
             | This is very problematic to our democracy comrade, and
             | borderline racist.
        
           | Zenst wrote:
           | You may find a small bit of capstan tape over the mic will,
           | whilst reduce the mic's sensitivity a little - equally
           | achieve the same results against this.
        
             | triactual wrote:
             | *Kapton tape, presumably. A capstan is an interesting thing
             | though: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capstan_(nautical)
        
               | zoomablemind wrote:
               | Slightly more recent reference to capstan use is in the
               | context of cassette players/recorders. Same idea, a
               | driven ridged head pulling the tape [1].
               | 
               | [1]:
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape_transport#Capstan
        
               | Zenst wrote:
               | yes, thank you for clarifying and dispelling the
               | confusion my spelling opps did there.
        
       | jonathanstrange wrote:
       | Say goodbye to your cat...nevertheless, it could be a useful
       | device under certain circumstances.
        
       | TheDudeMan wrote:
       | Wouldn't it be easy to build a microphone that was immune to
       | this? Up to now, there was little need to do so.
        
       | yepthatsreality wrote:
       | I wonder how portable these could be made to use when visiting
       | someone who owns an Amazon Alexa device?
        
       | 0xdeadb00f wrote:
       | This is surprisingly simple tech!
       | 
       | Those signal emitters look very similar to ultrasonic distance
       | measuring modules you can get at component/DIY shops.
        
       | egberts1 wrote:
       | As a long-time hearing aid wearer, I too notice the absence of
       | background noise whenever I flipped on my ultrasonic transducers
       | ... back in 1976.
        
       | franky47 wrote:
       | I wonder how sensitive dogs would be to such a jamming system.
        
         | severino wrote:
         | So this system would serve two purposes and not just one.
        
           | franky47 wrote:
           | It's more that the jammer could easily be detected by a
           | change of pet behaviour.
        
         | afarviral wrote:
         | At a guess, they wouldn't notice the sound after identifying it
         | as not requiring their attention. They have very pronounced
         | adaptive habituation to our noises.
        
           | samstave wrote:
           | Can confirm. Building a large metal qwanzit-hut and pounding
           | and drilling etc, and the dogs were unphased.
        
         | malwarebytess wrote:
         | Dogs can perhaps hear up to 45,000hz. This emits tones within
         | that range.
         | 
         | Article says at 1 meter the sound is mostly less than 70dB and
         | less than 80dB in hot spots.
         | 
         | So probably not too bad unless I'm missing something.
        
           | mikro2nd wrote:
           | 70-80dB is really very audible. I'd imagine much worse for
           | dogs given how sensitive their hearing is.
           | 
           | edit: Must confess I'd not thought of the potential effect of
           | the device on animals.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | Johnythree wrote:
             | > 70-80dB is really very audible.
             | 
             | Not at ultrasonic frequencies it isn't (eg at 45KHz)
             | 
             | Plus unless it's dbm (or similar) the statement is
             | meaningless.
        
       | afro88 wrote:
       | I wonder if a de-jammer ML model could be built to restore the
       | original audio?
        
       | foreigner wrote:
       | It's illegal for movie theaters to jam cell phones. If this
       | actually works and becomes popular, I don't imagine it would take
       | too long before this became illegal too.
        
         | Zenst wrote:
         | It is Illegal to jam the phone signal in case of emergencies
         | AFAIK. Not aware of it being illegal to jam recording devices
         | in such an environment in which they do outline (somewhere) no
         | recording allowed in the theatre.
         | 
         | Audio is an odd thing in law - in the UK I can record many
         | things audio more than you would legaly be allowed to video.
         | 
         | But privacy laws are the ones that curtail video recordings
         | mostly and with that - this kinda sits on the other side of the
         | fence.
         | 
         | However - public nuisance may prove an area and pets may well
         | dislike this, so if anything it may be classed as an assault
         | upon an animal. Depending upon the impact upon animals like
         | dogs.
         | 
         | So my main concern would be public area's with people using
         | guide dogs - will this cause the dog distress and what would be
         | the impact.
         | 
         | So I'd imagine already laws that may see this fall foul of -
         | but like many things it will be how it is used and not
         | ownership.
        
           | vdfs wrote:
           | jamming recording devices will make phones useless for
           | emergencies, no one can hear you
        
             | Zenst wrote:
             | Sound levels in movie complex's - you would struggle anyhow
             | and why people leave to the foyer or toilets to make calls
             | when movie playing.
        
         | dtgriscom wrote:
         | It is illegal to jam a cell phone's EM signals, and it isn't
         | because of the jamming's effects on the specific phones, but
         | because of the jammer's unauthorized transmissions in regulated
         | radio frequencies. The FCC takes their job fairly seriously,
         | especially when someone makes a product that is designed to
         | break their regulations. But, the FCC has no jurisdiction over
         | sound.
        
       | visskiss wrote:
       | That is awesome e
        
       | gillytech wrote:
       | It's a great idea and I would be interested in something like
       | this for myself. Except they would need to figure out how to
       | reduce the size of that device. It's technically wearable but
       | still quite huge.
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | How about camera jamming with UV (for example, on your car's
       | license plate)?
       | 
       | I imagine this has been discussed on HN before (if so, just send
       | me the link),
        
         | ruined wrote:
         | that could be defeated with a simple UV filter over the camera
         | lens, likely already in place
         | 
         | ir camera jamming is doable and well-known enough to appear in
         | media like crime dramas
         | 
         | none of it is very practical because you're still extremely
         | identifiable as "that one with all the lights" and presumably
         | still visible in the visible spectrum
         | 
         | when police jam cameras at protests they just use bright
         | visible strobes
        
           | daniel_reetz wrote:
           | Glass and plastic typically used in camera lenses already
           | blocks UV. Enough UV to upset a camera would be enough to
           | give you cataracts.
           | 
           | Infrared is a different story but most cameras have IR
           | filters. Security cameras sometimes have one that only drops
           | in during the day to enable daytime color and nighttime IR.
        
           | mcbits wrote:
           | > when police jam cameras at protests they just use bright
           | visible strobes
           | 
           | Ironically then the story just goes from "here police are
           | brutalizing the people protesting brutality" to "and also
           | being childish with their flashlights." Bright lights aren't
           | nearly as blinding to large-sensor cameras with good lenses
           | as they are to cheap cell phone cameras.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | Why not active countermeasures? Camera detection device coupled
         | with lasers.
        
       | ibaikov wrote:
       | It's harmful to constantly hear sound, I wonder if it's our
       | perception that makes it harmful even if we don't realize that we
       | hear something? Is it harmful to hear sound threats outside of
       | our range? Is it harmful to constantly use active noise
       | cancelling?
        
         | 4k4ndr wrote:
         | I am curious about ANC as well. I used to wear headphones with
         | ANC 8h+ a day and started to hear noise in my ear.
        
           | ziml77 wrote:
           | I don't see why that would happen. ANC plays an inverted
           | signal to counter noises. It's not just perception that it
           | makes sound quieter. When the original sound wave and counter
           | sound wave collide they physically cancel out.
        
             | haneefmubarak wrote:
             | If im understanding GP correctly, I think what's happening
             | for them is that the extended quiet daily makes their
             | hearing a bit more sensitive (as their brain and ears work
             | in tandem to amplify the sound and be more receptive to it,
             | respectively). Now when they take off the headphones, since
             | their hearing is more sensitive, they pick up more of the
             | actual background noise that exists around them.
        
         | aemreunal wrote:
         | > It's harmful to constantly hear sound, [...]
         | 
         | Hmm I'm not so sure about that; do you have any source for
         | that? My intuition says that it's nigh impossible to find
         | completely quiet places in daily life; there's always some
         | noise, though it could be imperceptably quiet.
         | 
         | If constant sound is harmful, I'd imagine we'd all have lost
         | our hearing by now. I reckon any harm woulc come from volume,
         | not just simple presence.
        
           | ByteJockey wrote:
           | > If constant sound is harmful, I'd imagine we'd all have
           | lost our hearing by now. I reckon any harm woulc come from
           | volume, not just simple presence.
           | 
           | That's assuming it's physically harmful (to the ears). If it
           | were instead mentally harmful, what you would expect is for
           | the incidence of mental illness to increase as life got
           | noisier and noisier (with a lag, of course, assuming this
           | effect takes an appreciable amount of time).
        
         | phantomathkg wrote:
         | > It's harmful to constantly hear sound
         | 
         | Are we saying our brain is not processing sound while we sleep?
         | Ain't we hearing sound 24/7?
        
       | kgarten wrote:
       | Cool research. Given that you are also jamming hearing aids and
       | other microphones, don't think it's practical to be used in real
       | life.
       | 
       | Off topic: check out Pedro's other work http://plopes.org/
       | 
       | Definitely thought provoking research :)
        
         | jataget wrote:
         | Given such brute approach to microphones, I almost expected to
         | see _new pipe bomb design_ there.
        
         | nine_k wrote:
         | Depends of what real life scenario is.
         | 
         | A cafe, maybe not. A meeting room, likely yes. There at least
         | you can declare that a hearing aid is used. The very point of
         | the device is to jam other microphones.
         | 
         | Not going to last very long, though; ultrasound filters will
         | soon appear on all relevant gear, including mobile phones.
        
           | spicybright wrote:
           | If I have a relationship that gets me into a conference room
           | with some people, I'm not going to run a fucking microphone
           | jammer there.
           | 
           | If I had someone in my conference room do that I would be
           | extremely sketched out.
        
             | novok wrote:
             | It's not about the people they see in the room, it's about
             | the people they don't see in the room.
        
           | Zenst wrote:
           | If that meeting room also has remote attendee's then that may
           | well prove the issue.
           | 
           | However with ultrasonic filters - you could cone of using
           | this.
           | 
           | Then such approaches have often been used like vibrating
           | windows to curtail laser microphones and yes the trick of
           | taping a vibrator to the window does work - though not in
           | keeping with your boardroom aesthetics unless your Anne
           | Summers or the like.
        
           | samstave wrote:
           | The microphone's worst enemy is the pencil.
           | 
           | ((Just wait until some scrappy thesis describes how to
           | determine character being written by pencil based on the
           | vibrations of sound being made from the friction between a
           | carbon based utensil and a paper pulp based medium such that
           | the intended letters can be derived based on the length,
           | count and direction of the audio signals derived from the
           | sounds of the writing utensil against the medium.
        
             | dmd wrote:
             | Careful, Mordechai Guri can hear you!
        
             | AlbertCory wrote:
             | You know, that sounds like language from a patent
             | application.
             | 
             | I actually AM licensed as a patent agent, but I'm not
             | practicing so I can't get you that patent.
        
               | pbhjpbhj wrote:
               | Also that's now prior disclosure and could be cited
               | against the patent application.
        
           | holonsphere wrote:
           | yeah, then the ad tech is just moving onto the next best
           | thing. SDR.
        
           | deeplearning0 wrote:
           | I think the parent refers to if a hearing impaired person
           | with hearing aid is present in the meeting room ...
        
           | Sebb767 wrote:
           | > Not going to last very long, though; ultrasound filters
           | will soon appear on all relevant gear, including mobile
           | phones.
           | 
           | Only if this technique actually gains widespread use. Even
           | then, it will most likely only appear on gear that must still
           | record, such as body cams. For consumer tech, this would just
           | be additional costs, which the manufacturers are not going to
           | bother with.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | To test the hearing aid, just walk into your local cafeteria at
         | around 2pm (aka dinner rush), and see how many people start
         | reaching for their ears.
        
         | osobo wrote:
         | Cool studies. He sure came a way from his earlier "human
         | component motion platform" (AKA "have your buddies lift and
         | shake you while in VR")
        
       | nray wrote:
       | This is the research inspiring Naomi "Sexy Cyborg" Wu's wearable
       | microphone jammer (a choker), see
       | https://youtu.be/H1rozZ7ebxQ?t=111 and later on at
       | https://youtu.be/H1rozZ7ebxQ?t=1319 for live testing out in
       | public.
        
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