[HN Gopher] From AEthelflaed to AElfthryth: The Idea of Queenshi...
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From AEthelflaed to AElfthryth: The Idea of Queenship in Tenth-
Century England
Author : benbreen
Score : 62 points
Date : 2021-10-15 16:40 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (jhiblog.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (jhiblog.org)
| bwanab wrote:
| The author should have pointed out that the historical background
| of Mercia was much more in line with the Britons (I.e, original
| Britons like the Welsh as opposed to the Saxons) in their
| perception of the concept of female rule. Not that Mercia wasn't
| Saxon, but they were influenced by their closer neighbors.
| Aethelflaed very ably built up Merician defenses and came to the
| aide of her brother, the Saxon King Edward, on a number of
| occasions. As the daughter of Alfred, she had a lot of legitimacy
| for her rule after Aethelred's death. It's not inconceivable to
| believe that her legitimate rule was downplayed by her brother
| and subsequent Saxon rulers for their own political purposes.
| lloydatkinson wrote:
| I highly recommend the show "The Last Kingdom" on Netflix as it
| covers exactly this!
| RegW wrote:
| So do I, of course remembering that this is a completely
| fictionalised version of events.
|
| There's no reason to believe that AEthelflaed was captured by
| vikings and impregnated by Erik Thurgilson before marrying
| AEthelred. Or that AEthelred was any more a misogynist than
| any other 10 century christian king. However, we can be
| pretty sure that Uhtred the bold wasn't even born at this
| point, never mind AEthelflaed's lover.
| HenryKissinger wrote:
| From AEthelflaed to AElfthryth to X AE A-12: The Idea of
| Billionaire Fatherhood in Twenty-First-Century America
| notjustanymike wrote:
| That poor child is going to crash a DMV database some day.
| partomniscient wrote:
| Maybe they're little Bobby Tables great*many grandparents.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| I'm all for an English spelling reform, one where AE, d, and th
| return to their rightful place on our printed page.
| Tagbert wrote:
| You can get a lot of insight into this period and into what we
| learned to think of as the "dark ages" from the British History
| Podcast. His coverage brings these people to life and illuminates
| a time that was a lot more complex than most of us knew about.
|
| https://www.thebritishhistorypodcast.com/
| philjohn wrote:
| Warwick School, which was purportedly founded by AEthelflaed in
| 914, is the oldest boys public school in the country, as well as
| the oldest surviving school founded by a Woman.
| verytrivial wrote:
| For a curious Wikipedia journey, I can recommend starting with
| the reigning UK monarch[1], then keep clicking the predecessor's
| link repeatedly. Marvel as the images lose colour, turn to
| paintings, then statues, drawings of painting (noting Henry
| VIII's power stance), statues, drawings of statues, tapestries,
| well-worn coins, then eventually evapourate into myth somehwere
| in Wessex.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II
| Zuider wrote:
| At that stage in his life, the king was too weak and ill to
| stand, so the artist, Holbein, improvised, creating the iconic
| "power stance" image we associate with Henry VIII
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| I thought it was the pose hugely obese people take on; legs
| wide, leaning back to counter belly-weight. Is there record
| from Holbein of this choice?
| dandotway wrote:
| > noting Henry VIII's power stance
|
| And also noting the prominent _codpiece_ [1] covering Henry 's
| family jewels in said portrait[2].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codpiece
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_VIII
| mattowen_uk wrote:
| Although fictional, the 5th season of the TV show Vikings covers
| these characters in some depth.
| partomniscient wrote:
| Likewise, The Last Kingdom TV show covers these characters
| probably even more - AEthelflaed is in all 5 seasons [1]
| (although season 5 isn't out yet), and there's a lot of focus
| on Mercia.
|
| [1] https://the-last-
| kingdom.fandom.com/wiki/%C3%86thelfl%C3%A6d
|
| Edit: Should have hit refresh rather than browse tabs opened a
| while ago...err, I agree with dave333
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Unfortunately that show has some odd changes to history done
| for the purpose of entertainment. Particularly on her
| character, and the history of Mercia and its relationships.
| partomniscient wrote:
| Yeah, there's all sorts of stuff they've apparently moved
| around, even from the books it was based on, which
| themselves were 'historical fiction'.
| staticautomatic wrote:
| Many of the plots are true, but of different characters
| or different locations.
| dave333 wrote:
| As does the show "The Last Kingdom."
| aproductguy wrote:
| The books are so much better; big fan of Cornwell.
| dash2 wrote:
| From 1066 And All That [1]:
|
| Wave of Egg-Kings
|
| Soon after this event Egg-Kings were found on the thrones of all
| these kingdoms, such as Eggberd, Eggbreth, Eggfroth, etc. None of
| them, however, succeeded in becoming memorable except in so far
| as it is difficult to forget such names as Eggbirth, Eggbred,
| Eggbeard, Eggfish, etc. Nor is it even remembered by what kind of
| Eggdeath they perished.
|
| and the exam question:
|
| 8. Have you the faintest recollection of (1) Ethelbreth? (2)
| Athelthral? (3) Thruthelthrolth?
|
| [1] http://hotgiraffe.narod.ru/books/1066.html
| roschdal wrote:
| Queenships are awfully despotic.
| simonh wrote:
| As against kingships?
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| There is a traditional Chinese view that women in power
| promote instability. (And that instability is bad.)
|
| It does appear to be true that female rulers reign during
| times of increased instability, but it's hard to draw the
| distinction between female rulers reigning during instability
| because those are the only circumstances in which they can
| take power vs female rulers intentionally (or accidentally-
| but-predictably) creating instability.
|
| And then you can draw another distinction between female
| rulers like Wu Zetian who have themselves crowned, explicitly
| making a change to the system, or female rulers like Cixi who
| exercise power they don't formally hold, which is working
| within the system.
| bobthechef wrote:
| Not sure what the OP means, but perhaps it has something to
| do with a higher incidence of war and such during the reigns
| of queens than kings.
|
| But I would be careful calling monarchy despotic as if it
| were synonymous. Democracies can be far worse. The mob is
| dangerous and easily shaped through propaganda (as we are
| witnessing). You can hide from Nero, but the mob is
| everywhere. Besides, feudal dynastic monarchies aren't
| Enlightenment despots. Feudal lords, the nobility, the
| Church, and having to consider the consequences of your
| actions for yourself during a long reign (vs. 4 year term) as
| well as the reign of your heir all put limits on the actual
| power a king has.
| huetius wrote:
| I'm all for dispelling Whig propaganda about the European
| Middle Ages, but I'm not sure medieval monarchies and
| contemporary democracies can compared in this way. As you
| mentioned, medieval societies were heavily variegated,
| religious, and did not have the means to manipulate nature
| in the way we do today, all of which were practical
| constraints on a wicked or despotic monarch. These
| constraints are now gone. I don't think you _could_ hide
| from Nero (or King John, to stay more overtly medieval)
| today.
|
| Also, mobs were not absent from medieval society (think of
| the antinomian, flagellant movements in Germany, or various
| anti-Jewish outbursts). They're likely to be with us to
| greater or lesser degree until the end.
|
| My view is that for those of us concerned by the trajectory
| of modernity (Christian or not), the task is to better
| understand the phenomenon of totalitarianism, which we will
| have to contrast against a recovered, "re-realized"
| understanding of authority (as freedom from arbitrary
| power). But I don't think medievalism, or pitting democracy
| vs monarchy will get us there.
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(page generated 2021-10-16 23:01 UTC)