[HN Gopher] Who was Aleph Null? (2013)
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       Who was Aleph Null? (2013)
        
       Author : guerrilla
       Score  : 62 points
       Date   : 2021-10-11 08:35 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bit-player.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bit-player.org)
        
       | hungryforcodes wrote:
       | I LOVE this stuff. After reading the article it's not more clear,
       | but my mind has more tinder to kindle it's imagination.
        
         | dcminter wrote:
         | Actually if you look through the comments at the foot of that
         | page, John Francis makes it clear that the author was Richard
         | Parkins of Cambridge, UK: http://www.zen224037.zen.co.uk/
        
       | dosman33 wrote:
       | For a second I was thinking of Aleph One of this site from way
       | back when:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/19980214102549/http://undergroun...
       | 
       | Interesting read regardless.
        
         | afandian wrote:
         | I was thinking of another Aleph One who made both ARM processor
         | upgrades [0] and biofeedback boxes [1]
         | 
         | [0]
         | http://chrisacorns.computinghistory.org.uk/32bit_UpgradesA2G...
         | 
         | [1] http://www.aleph1.co.uk/about-us.html
        
         | 1MachineElf wrote:
         | That's a cool site. How did you discover it? What happened to
         | it?
        
           | guerrilla wrote:
           | It's the homepage of the author of the phrack article. See my
           | other comment.
        
       | perl4ever wrote:
       | Aleph one bottles of beer on the wall!       Aleph one bottles of
       | beer!       Take aleph null down       Pass them around
       | Aleph one bottles of beer on the wall!"
       | 
       | https://math.bu.edu/people/jeffs/aleph-null.html
        
       | mzs wrote:
       | "under the pseudonym 0"
       | 
       | http://www.zen224037.zen.co.uk/
        
         | moomin wrote:
         | Why am I not surprised it was Richard Parkin?
         | 
         | Charles Lang, is of course, a good candidate for "Archimedes"
         | but I'm suspecting it may be David Wheeler, an incredible
         | polymath that seemed to be beyond the cutting edge on every
         | frontier of computer science for his entire career.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | Apparently (per a comment in the article) Parkins was a
           | member of a group called the Archimedeans and "Archimedes" is
           | a composite character representing questions asked or points
           | raised by his fellow Archimedeans.
        
         | kevinwang wrote:
         | Nice
        
         | mcbuilder wrote:
         | You can really get a sense of his humor from his website: "55
         | years ago I first used Occam's Razor. Since then I have used no
         | other."
        
       | michaelcampbell wrote:
       | These stories fascinate me; I remember how giddy I was when the
       | famous "Mel" programmer's identity was discovered, even though I
       | have zero need to know, nor even any relationship with any of the
       | story. Other than said fascination.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | That guy 'Mel' has amazing name recognition. On par with
         | Mitnick (but for much better reasons).
         | 
         | If you don't know how Mel is:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Mel
        
           | mewse-hn wrote:
           | The story of Mel explained (2015):
           | 
           | https://jamesseibel.com/the-story-of-mel/
        
       | bawolff wrote:
       | I thought this was going to be about the stack smashing guy.
        
         | guerrilla wrote:
         | Aleph One wrote "Smashing The Stack For Fun And Profit." [1] I
         | found this Aleph Null through a citation in "The UNIX Time-
         | Sharing System" by Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson [2]
         | 
         | In case anyone doesn't know, Aleph-null is the cardinality of
         | the natural numbers and Aleph-one is the cardinality of the
         | countable ordinal numbers. On the continuum hypothesis, aleph-
         | one would equal the cardinality of the continuum (i.e. reals.)
         | 
         | 1. http://phrack.org/issues/49/14.html
         | 
         | 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28826870
        
           | bialpio wrote:
           | I think you have a mistake in your aleph-one summary, if I
           | recall correctly aleph-zero is the cardinality of countably
           | infinite set (like natural numbers), and aleph-one is for
           | uncountably infinite sets. It's been a while though so I may
           | be misremembering.
           | 
           | Edit: PEBKAC, parent is correct.
        
             | guerrilla wrote:
             | I am also rusty, but I believe both statements are true but
             | mine may be more precise as there is more than one
             | uncountable infinite set and the set of all countable
             | ordinal numbers is an uncountable infinite set.
        
               | brobdingnagians wrote:
               | The cardinality of Real numbers is 2^Aleph_Null.
               | Continuum hypothesis is equivalent to saying that it is
               | equal to Aleph_One. But that is debated :) [Debated in
               | the sense that you could accept one or the other, but it
               | is independent of ZF and there should be a good reason to
               | accept one or the other]
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_number#Aleph-one
        
               | guerrilla wrote:
               | > but it is independent of ZF
               | 
               | Yeah, if I recall that's why forcing was invented, to
               | specifically prove that C and CH were independent of ZF.
               | Yeah: [1]
               | 
               | 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cohen#Continuum_hyp
               | othesi...
        
               | bialpio wrote:
               | You're right, I got thrown off by the "countable" part in
               | the "set of countable ordinal numbers", which is indeed
               | uncountably infinite.
        
             | Sniffnoy wrote:
             | Unless guerrilla's comment was edited and you're referring
             | to an older version, guerrilla's comment is completely
             | correct.
             | 
             | Aleph_1 doesn't refer to uncountable cardinals in general,
             | it's a _specific_ uncountable cardinal. More specifically,
             | it is, as guerrilla says, the number of countable ordinals.
        
             | moomin wrote:
             | Aleph-0 is the naturals (countable). (And many other
             | things, like integers, rationals, algebraic numbers)
             | 
             | Aleph-1 is the reals (uncountable), aka 2^Aleph-0. (Also
             | any multi-dimensional (finite dimensions) complex space.)
             | 
             | Aleph-2 is 2^Aleph-1 &c
             | 
             | The continuum hypothesis is that there isn't an infinite
             | cardinality between 0 and 1.
        
               | Sniffnoy wrote:
               | This is incorrect, and a common misconception.
               | 
               | Aleph_1 refers to the second-smallest infinite cardinal,
               | whether that's equal to 2^(aleph_0) or not. (Aleph_1 is
               | also equal, as has been mentioned, to the number of
               | countable ordinals.)
               | 
               | The continuum hypothesis, in stating that there are no
               | infinite cardinals inbetween aleph_0 and 2^(aleph_0), is
               | equivalent to the statement that 2^(aleph_0) = aleph_1.
               | 
               | The series you refer to is denoted by the Hebrew letter
               | bet, not aleph. So bet_0 = aleph_0, bet_1 = 2^(bet_0),
               | bet_2 = 2^(bet_1), etc. But that is not how the aleph
               | numbers work.
        
               | klyrs wrote:
               | Some of us prefer to assume the continuum hypothesis just
               | for the sake of this notation... but it turns out that
               | the continuum hypothesis is still pretty hot.
               | 
               | https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-many-numbers-exist-
               | infini...
        
               | Sniffnoy wrote:
               | "Assuming the continuum hypothesis for the sake of this
               | notation" is being deliberately obfuscatory, encouraging
               | confusion, and requiring other mathematicians to do extra
               | work to translate your results to the more general
               | context. There's perfectly good notation for the bet
               | series, and no need to use aleph as a substitute when
               | that simply isn't what it means.
        
         | Greek0 wrote:
         | Do we know who the stack-smashing Aleph One was?
        
           | skeletron wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_Levy
        
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