[HN Gopher] The Overview Effect - William Shatner's Words After ...
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The Overview Effect - William Shatner's Words After Returning from
Space
Author : _Microft
Score : 231 points
Date : 2021-10-13 16:57 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (cosmicperspective.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (cosmicperspective.com)
| xqcgrek2 wrote:
| Shatner is an actor, and for the first time in my life, I think
| he might be a good actor.
| musesum wrote:
| Cannot understate how influential the OG Star Trek was for me.
| Never saw Shatner in anything else (was too busy reading Clark,
| Heinlein, Dick, et al). So, he is still Captain Kirk, to me. His
| words are profoundly moving.
| Applejinx wrote:
| They should have sent a poet
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Spot on!
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SySZdvsFYt4
| MarkusWandel wrote:
| I'm never certain whether I'm just imagining this, but you look
| out the window of an airplane at 30,000+ feet, and the sky isn't
| as blue as it is at ground level. And even standing on top of the
| kind of mountain an average person can climb - I made it to the
| crater plateau, but not the summit of Kilimanjaro (altitude
| issues) - and realizing that every breath you take has only half
| as much air in it as you're used to - makes you realize just how
| thin this atmosphere is.
| HighPlainsDrftr wrote:
| I think scientists really do a terrible job of explaining that.
| When you look out the window, it appears the atmosphere goes on
| forever. Why not burn coal, let cars exhaust, and generally
| treat the atmosphere like a cheap sewer?
|
| In reality, the more I've thought about this, the more appalled
| I become.
|
| Many people have issues at 10k feet elevation. The FAA starts
| having different o2 requirements at 10k feet. 12k elevation
| gets very challenging to climb.
|
| Yet I'll drive 12k feet to go to the grocery store and never
| thing twice about it.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Shatner having an existential moment and Bezos sprays Champagne
| around.
| cwkoss wrote:
| Jeff Bezos seems like such a shallow greedy douchebag. Hard to
| think of a person this world would be better off without.
| gorgoiler wrote:
| Oh wow, hearing Bill's description of space as _death_ is
| profound.
|
| Other worlds are out there, but the blank space between us and
| them is true nothingness. To experience it must be horrifying.
| gfodor wrote:
| I have not been to space, but imagining the blank, clean
| matter-of-factness of it, the sterility of it, the emptiness of
| it, and understanding _that_ is what the incomprehensible
| vastness of the universe "is" except for the rounding error of
| matter, is a strange and scary thought.
|
| I have talked to someone who has travelled to the ISS before
| and they mentioned the most strange part of it was seeing the
| ISS in pure sunlight, as if it were just an object sitting
| under stage lighting in complete, context-less darkness.
|
| I'd imagine it's surreal to be present in the visual and
| auditory silence of space, knowing the dead nothingness hides
| the extreme danger of what would come if one were simply put
| into it.
| bitwize wrote:
| Shatner being so awestruck reminded me of two fictional space
| voyages. The first being Major Tom in the Bowie song "Space
| Oddity"... the second being, in _Wings of Honneamise_ , the main
| character and first spacefaring human of his world, sitting
| silently in his orbiter, calling out on his radio unsure if
| anyone is listening, and offering a prayer to a deity he doesn't
| really believe exists, because of how small he perceived himself
| and his planet's politics to be, compared to the sheer terrible
| absoluteness of all that is "out there". I guess these were
| inspired by astronaut reactions after _their_ first voyages back
| in the day.
|
| Space just... does things to people. Puts things in perspective,
| I guess?
| gorkish wrote:
| My favorite treatment of this subject comes from the film
| Contact, which manages with these six words:
|
| Eleanor: "They should have sent a poet."
| egberts1 wrote:
| Space, ... the final frontier ...
| beepbooptheory wrote:
| Yes but instead of the laughable fantasy of a communist society
| developing technology that allows them to join an intergalactic
| federation of like minded beings, we have something much
| better/realistic: a few wealthy individuals investing their
| capital towards discrete goals that involve space exploration.
| JanSolo wrote:
| I expect that it meant a lot to Shatner. That man has spent a
| significant portion of his life imitating a spacefaring version
| of humanity. For him to finally see reality intersecting with the
| fiction of his lifes-work must be very satisfying. I completely
| understand that it was a profound moment for him.
|
| The contrast between him and Jeff spraying champagne and
| squealing with his marketroids was very apparent.
| specialist wrote:
| Shatner's The Captains [2011] documentary has a bit about him
| coming to terms with his impact on others. Like inspiring fans
| to become scientists. I was surprised by Shatner's mea culpa.
| It's in the segment with Patrick Stewart.
|
| https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1946421/
|
| https://tubitv.com/movies/560778/the-captains
| ASalazarMX wrote:
| Overall I'm glad Shatner got to see space, and that Bezos
| didn't kill Shatner with this publicity stunt.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| At least Shatner didn't tempt fate by wearing a red shirt.
| [deleted]
| JanSolo wrote:
| Yes; very good point. Although Blue Origin has done an
| excellent job so far, it's important to remember that space
| travel is very dangerous and eventually there will be an
| accident and people will likely die. It's not an 'if' but a
| 'when'.
| golemotron wrote:
| s/space travel/cars/
| dmitriid wrote:
| Space travel is magnitudes of magnitudes deadlier than
| cars. A large chunk of astronaut training is basically
| "you're dead in 5 seconds, your actions".
|
| Read "An Astronaut's Guide to Living on Earth"
| JanSolo wrote:
| According to
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-
| related_ac...
|
| The current statistical fatality rate for astronauts and
| cosmonauts is 3.2 percent. Lets give Blue Origin the
| benefit of newer tech and learning from previous mistakes
| and say they're twice as safe as any other spacecraft.
| That's still a 1.6% chance you'll die taking a flight in
| it.
| Natsu wrote:
| You know that the pandemic has been going on too long
| when my first thought was "oh, that's about as (un)safe
| as getting Covid" :(
| amelius wrote:
| Does that rate also hold for flights using the same model
| or even the same vehicle as tested in previous flights?
| Shouldn't testing bring the rate down?
| midasuni wrote:
| Except blue origin isnt in the same order of magnitude as
| Gemini, Soyuz, Dragon, etc.
|
| How many people have died in suborbital rockets with low
| apogees and barely any down range movements?
|
| Numbers just aren't there to reasonably draw any
| conclusions
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| Sure, but the average car trip doesn't span millions of
| miles and last for months. If you compare deaths per
| passenger-mile, space travel is safer than cars (but more
| dangerous than airplanes).
|
| Because Shatt's space trip was relatively short and
| quick, he's fairly safe if you extrapolate from the
| statistics. Of course that extrapolation might not be
| reasonable for various reasons:
|
| * There's only been one deadly space incident in the last
| 30 years, so we don't have a very good sample size
|
| * Not all passenger-miles are equally dangerous. Leaving
| and returning Earth are the most dangerous parts of space
| travel. However by not going to orbit, Shatt didn't have
| to leave Earth as quickly, nor did he have worry as much
| about a speedy reentry.
|
| * Most of those passenger-miles were done on vehicles
| that have a launch heritage than New Shepard
| WalterBright wrote:
| > that Bezos didn't kill Shatner with this publicity stunt.
|
| Makes my point that if things go well, Bezos doesn't deserve
| any credit. If things go badly, Bezos gets all the blame.
|
| Personally, I'm pleased Shatner got to make this flight. It's
| a great capstone for his career. Thanks, Bezos & Blue Origin,
| for making this happen!
| amelius wrote:
| > Makes my point that if things go well, Bezos doesn't
| deserve any credit. If things go badly, Bezos gets all the
| blame.
|
| Bezos just paid for the entire thing. If it failed, he
| didn't pay enough. Therefore, I don't see how he deserves
| any credit, but I do see how he could be blamed.
| WalterBright wrote:
| > If it failed, he didn't pay enough.
|
| Then you should credit him for providing enough pay.
| qayxc wrote:
| I heard this a lot. The "whistle blower" did a great job
| convincing the public it seems.
|
| Interestingly enough, though, in 19 flights that space dildo
| didn't kill anyone unlike Branson's death bird that was
| grounded by the FAA due to numerous security issues.
|
| Yes it was a publicity stunt, yes Bezos is a horrible person,
| but still the track record of the rocket powered phallus
| symbol doesn't look too bad as of now and at least appears to
| be somewhat safe and reliable.
| ricardobeat wrote:
| Test flights without a crew obviously can't kill anyone.
| This is the second crewed flight.
| gorgoiler wrote:
| Can't kill anyone _onboard_.
| WalterBright wrote:
| > yes Bezos is a horrible person
|
| For the crime of making tens of thousands of people
| millionaires, providing people with what they want the
| world over, living the American dream, and hurling
| Shatner's body into the void?
| FredPret wrote:
| Yeah but he was like mean and stuff so off with his head
| bojo wrote:
| For the crime of breaking numerous state and city laws to
| favor what he wants, moving money in such a way his
| company pays little to no federal taxes, creating
| horrible working conditions in warehouses, and the list
| goes on.
| bananabreakfast wrote:
| Except, none of those are crimes. Immoral maybe, but not
| doing these things means you will have your success taken
| away by someone who does.
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| By that logic, we need to start killing people
| immediately, because not doing that means we will have
| our success taken away by someone who does.
|
| Is that perhaps a non sequitur?
| Tronno wrote:
| The OP accuses Bezos of being a horrible person, not a
| criminal.
| metagame wrote:
| <<For the crime of breaking numerous state and city
| laws>>
|
| <<Except, none of those are crimes.>>
|
| Breaking the law is the textbook definition of a crime,
| isn't it?
| oarabbus_ wrote:
| If only the world was so black-and-white that you could
| look at all the negative impacts of an individual,
| consider none of the positive impacts, and conclude they
| are a bad person.
| monkeycantype wrote:
| No, just for shaking that champagne everywhere while
| Shatner was trying to have a conversation
| cogman10 wrote:
| Frankly, this isn't a Bezos failing but a government
| failing.
|
| We shouldn't be beholden to our employers to have good
| working conditions and we shouldn't be mad at uber
| wealthy companies for using the taxcode to avoid paying
| taxes.
|
| There are 100s of individuals and companies doing exactly
| what Bezos has done. We solve nothing by blaming
| companies for working withing the confines of law and
| being shitty.
|
| Blame legislators that have allowed for such a system to
| exist. Vote in primaries and public for politicians that
| are looking at making things better for the individual.
| bserge wrote:
| Companies are buying legislators, that's the problem.
| oneplane wrote:
| I think it's pretty safe so say it's a double failure. A
| human abusing other humans is a failure of that first
| human. If there were other humans, a third party, that
| were supposed to protect the now-abused humans, then that
| is also a failure.
|
| Just because there was no law that said "do not be an
| asshole" doesn't mean that an asshole is any less of an
| asshole.
|
| Doing it at Bezos-scale makes it a Bezos-scale asshole
| problem.
| ipaddr wrote:
| This is 100% his choice and we should be allowed to get
| mad if we choose to at his actions and for selfishly
| stealing from society for personal gain.
|
| I would only blame the government if they forced him to
| do this. He had free choice.
| kragen wrote:
| He filed software patents and enforced them.
| snvzz wrote:
| For the crime of success and money.
|
| Envy is a bitch.
| qayxc wrote:
| Projection much? I don't envy his success or wealth, I
| don't care about that part.
| adventured wrote:
| He's a horrible person for finally accomplishing
| something that nobody else has been able to: sparking a
| surge in compensation among unskilled labor in the US. /s
|
| Amazon instigated the surge in all the major retailers
| moving toward $15 / hr as the new minimum wage for
| unskilled, entry labor. Amazon is setting the bar and
| forcing everyone else to keep up. They're likely to keep
| moving it higher faster than everyone else as well.
|
| It also (very obviously) doesn't excuse all the mistakes
| that Amazon has made that everyone here is well
| acquainted with. I don't think anybody would pretend
| otherwise. The good goes with the bad. Amazon deserves
| credit for the things they get right as well as what they
| get wrong.
| rpmisms wrote:
| I was talking about this with my wife just today. The
| minimum wage is ticking up, not as a result of
| legislation, but because there's real competition for
| workers now. Very positive thing.
| uoaei wrote:
| Accelerationism to justify fucking poor people over
| because "now they're paid slightly more though definitely
| not a living wage" is peak HN culture war.
|
| Amazon didn't set that bar, everyone everywhere else did.
| Amazon finally caught up after years and years of messing
| around with monopolistic tactics and is only just now
| doing PR damage control.
| GauntletWizard wrote:
| For the crime of the multitude of anticompetitive and
| shady behaviors that Amazon has engaged in, including
| using their position as a marketplace to leverage their
| suppliers out of business[1], supply chain fraud by
| commingling[2], workers rights abuses[3].
|
| But quite frankly, even though several of those are
| _actual crimes_ , I don't think you need to have
| committed a crime to be an awful person. Jeff Bezos
| qualifies for his smug demeanor while being an asshole,
| regardless of what crimes his company has committed.
|
| [1] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-
| report/amazon-i... - Literally on the front page today
| [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27177539 [3]http
| s://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/05/amazon-
| wo...
| nickpp wrote:
| You mean acting like pretty much any other retailer?!
| GauntletWizard wrote:
| I do. I think that we, as individual consumers and as
| free persons in a functional society, need to start
| drawing lines and pushing back on all retailers, Amazon
| included but not exclusively. That means picking our
| buying habits better and that means pushing back with
| laws and regulations that prevent or penalize abuse.
|
| There are two things that have hindered those efforts:
| )1the race to the bottom is very fast, so by the time one
| retailer has had abuses exposed every retailer is doing
| it. 2) Enforcement efforts have been neutered, to the
| point where the fines are just cost of doing business -
| and that has it's own complicated history of abuse.
| snvzz wrote:
| Amazon != Bezos, and Amazon's got obligations to its
| shareholders.
|
| Bezos did put in the hard work and got results, so he can
| be smug.
|
| People who will never amount to anything will of course
| claim it was just luck.
| tablespoon wrote:
| >> For the crime of the multitude of anticompetitive and
| shady behaviors that Amazon has engaged in, including
| using their position as a marketplace to leverage their
| suppliers out of business[1], supply chain fraud by
| commingling[2], workers rights abuses[3].
|
| > Amazon != Bezos, and Amazon's got obligations to its
| shareholders.
|
| That's a distinction without a difference. Bezos was the
| CEO _and_ largest shareholder. The shareholders weren 't
| going to fire him if he'd chosen _not_ to have Amazon
| pursue "anticompetitive and shady behaviors."
| ipaddr wrote:
| By pushing down the people who will never amount to
| anything Jeff Bezos is not using luck to get ahead he is
| using power he obtained through prior luck.
|
| Amazon is still Bezos. Ownership and leadership wise just
| not day to day.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > For the crime of making tens of thousands of people
| millionaires, providing people with what they want the
| world over, living the American dream, and hurling
| Shatner's body into the void?
|
| Among other things, you forgot the part about scheduling
| people like machines to the point where they feel like
| their only option is to pee in bottles.
|
| It's pretty easy to make _any_ powerful person look good
| if you 're willing to be shamelessly selective.
| nickpp wrote:
| Are you by any chance talking about the job they
| voluntarily applied to and can freely leave at any time?!
| ipaddr wrote:
| The only job left after Amazon put the other local stores
| out of business makes it an involuntarily choice unless
| you consider that crime is an acceptable career choice.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > Are you by any chance talking about the job they
| voluntarily applied to and they can freely leave at any
| time?!
|
| Do you realize that doesn't excuse anything? A rather
| extreme example to make the point: slave-holding is still
| wrong even if you can find someone desperate enough to
| voluntarily sell themselves into it to you.
| nickpp wrote:
| If you had to compare modern-day at will employment - the
| social construct through we are all earning our living -
| with _slavery_ - something quite illegal in the entire
| world - your argument doesn't hold much water.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > If you had to compare modern-day at will employment -
| the social construct through we are all earning our
| living - with slavery - something quite illegal in the
| entire world - your argument doesn't hold much water.
|
| You should note that's a straw man, since _I did not make
| a comparison_ , rather I used a different example to
| illustrate a concept. To spell it out in the simplest way
| I can think of: voluntarily agreement to a contract does
| not make the terms of that contract right. That's true
| for all wrongs, including slavery and bad working
| conditions.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| >> slave-holding is still wrong even if you can find
| someone desperate enough to voluntarily sell themselves
| into it to you
|
| You left out the "and they can freely leave at any time"
| part. Your analogy doesn't make sense once you add it
| back in.
| wsinks wrote:
| Completely apparent, and I appreciate that you saw the same
| thing and that you've coined the word marketroids for me.
|
| Makes me worry when those in charge appear to have impulse
| control problems. Why not listen? Or use discretion? It does
| feel like discretion was more of a 90s-00s thing that's gone.
| Does that resonate with others or is it just me?
| richardatlarge wrote:
| If I was a reporter there I would have asked WS if the same
| flight in his youth would have changed him as a Star Trek actor
| TMWNN wrote:
| >I completely understand that it was a profound moment for him.
|
| The flight itself may be a stunt, but Shatner's words aren't.
| He's clearly overwhelmed, and his voice breaks as he thanks
| Bezos for giving him "this most profound experience". He then
| says he doesn't want to lose how he is feeling.
|
| >The contrast between him and Jeff spraying champagne and
| squealing with his marketroids was very apparent.
|
| Bezos isn't paying attention at first, but realizes what
| Shatner is saying and the feeling behind his words, and stops
| what he is doing to let Shatner unburden his soul.
| uhtred wrote:
| Oh my god, when Jeff ignored William to get some champagne and
| start spraying it was so rude and obnoxious, not to mention the
| clingers on just wanting Jeff's attention and some camera time.
| I feel sorry for Shatner that he didn't have someone more
| genuine to share that moment with.
| par wrote:
| i thought the 'the clingers on' was his wife?
| zikduruqe wrote:
| You both missed an opportunity to say "Klingon".
| fierro wrote:
| yes, can't believe they squealed and celebrated, they should
| have solemnly nodded to eachother in respectful silence.
| Shouldn't have expressed joy, no.
| davidw wrote:
| It didn't even feel real though, to me. It felt like
| contestants on some reality show (Space Race!) play acting at
| celebrating.
|
| I love to watch bike racing, and have seen plenty of
| overjoyed people hugging their spouses and friends and
| everyone after a big win. The joy and other emotions all come
| pouring out. This didn't feel like that, at least from what I
| saw. Maybe Bezos and his crew are just that way, but reading
| through the comments, I'm not the only one who was not really
| impressed. And for the record, I'm not someone who loathes
| Bezos or Amazon.
| WalterBright wrote:
| I'm not the type that jumps around hugging everyone,
| either, but that doesn't mean I don't feel joy.
|
| I once wangled a ride on a P-51, a lifelong wish of mine.
| It was only 30 minutes, but I had a smile for the next
| week.
| lukewrites wrote:
| Honest question that I'm sure sounds snarky: Why was Bezos in a
| flight suit if he wasn't flying?
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| Because landed space capsules can be kinda hazardous?
| handrous wrote:
| Theater and/or ego. Same reason for the President to fly out
| to an aircraft carrier just off the US coast and pose for a
| bunch of photos while wearing a flight suit, before giving
| the infamous MISSION ACCOMPLISHED speech. Or for a different
| world leader to ensure that photos of him shirtless on
| horseback make it to the media from time to time.
| adventured wrote:
| Or you know, it could be that he has invested $10 billion
| into building Blue Origin over 21 years and likes his
| company and wants to wear the uniform because he's proud of
| it (even if you think lowly of it). Bezos is very well
| known to be a space nerd.
|
| So what.
| InitialLastName wrote:
| Or another one taking a doomy photo with a bible in a
| church in the middle of a protest.
| worrycue wrote:
| I'm going to stick my neck out here. Not sure where the
| squealing you talk about come from. Bezos just handled the
| champagne quickly and got back to Shatner who was clearly
| having a lot to process.
|
| I swear people here just don't like Bezos and see the worst in
| him.
| WalterBright wrote:
| > Jeff spraying champagne and squealing with his marketroids
|
| Criminy. Let the the man have his moment. He earned it.
| grumple wrote:
| He certainly paid for it, but the work was done by others.
| staunch wrote:
| By this logic one should not get excited after buying a
| house, a car, or even a birthday cake since someone else
| did the work. Obviously, that's crazy thinking.
|
| But besides that, Bezos did a lot more than just _buy_ a
| rocket from a supplier. He invested billions of dollars and
| years of work into Blue Origin. By any reasonable
| definition, he _deserves_ to celebrate its successes.
|
| Humanity as a whole succeeds when things like this are
| accomplished. The world has many problems, but advancing
| our ability to travel into space is not one of them.
|
| Only a sad kind of cynic sees these events as an
| opportunity to spew hate. They reveal much more about
| themselves than anyone else.
| beepbooptheory wrote:
| You get excited after buying a cake because you then get
| to enjoy it. Its not _who_ made the cake that determines
| your enjoyment of it. That is separate from buying a cake
| and then taking credit for the cake itself, not just the
| fact you have cake now.
|
| Honestly I would be much more excited about building a
| house than buying one!
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| WalterBright wrote:
| If the rocket had blown up, all the fingers that denied him
| credit would be pointing at Bezos.
| ipaddr wrote:
| But some low level guy would go to jail, teams would lose
| jobs and Bezos would be poked fun at next time he hangs
| out with Branson
| waterhouse wrote:
| > some low level guy would go to jail, teams would lose
| jobs
|
| Is that what's happened with past rocketship catastrophes
| that killed the passengers? (Or airplane catastrophes,
| for that matter?) I don't think so...
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| Unless you buy into some of the Soyuz conspiracy
| theories, no. However in cases of extreme negligence,
| people have gone to jail for causing airplane
| catastrophes
| [deleted]
| NikolaeVarius wrote:
| So nothing ever can be celebrated, since it leaves out the
| 5 million layers of others that precipitated any event
| wonderwonder wrote:
| This is true, and how we should all live our lives. I
| cancelled all my kids birthday parties because they did
| not accomplish getting a year older by themselves and if
| the father of the 3rd grade teacher that tutored the
| nurse that delivered my kids could not be there then no
| one gets to celebrate. After all they did not deliver
| themselves. /S
| wonderwonder wrote:
| I don't understand this inclination to take away credit
| from anyone that people don't like or find objectionable.
| What level does it end at? There is no rocket launch
| without Bezos, he started Amazon, and built it then used
| those funds to create blue origin. He employed millions of
| people along the way. You can argue that there are things
| he should have done better but there is no way that the
| credit does not belong to him. Its possible to be both
| super accomplished, responsible for many great things and a
| flawed human. People are complex.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Even if Bezos was Practically Perfect In Every Way,
| people would just invent flaws in him.
| aronpye wrote:
| " They used to say if man could fly, he'd have wings. But he did
| fly. He discovered he had to. Do you wish that the first Apollo
| mission hadn't reached the moon, or that we hadn't gone on to
| Mars and then to the nearest star? That's like saying you wish
| that you still operated with scalpels and sewed your patients up
| with catgut like your great-great-great-great-grandfather used
| to. I'm in command. I could order this. But I'm not because,
| Doctor McCoy is right in pointing out the enormous danger
| potential in any contact with life and intelligence as
| fantastically advanced as this. But I must point out that the
| possibilities, the potential for knowledge and advancement is
| equally great. Risk. Risk is our business. That's what the
| starship is all about. That's why we're aboard her. You may
| dissent without prejudice. Do I hear a negative vote?" - Captain
| James T Kirk
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Good to see that Mr. Robert Wilson has finally recovered from his
| fear of flying.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightmare_at_20,000_Feet#
| dogman144 wrote:
| Shatner's comments really saved this as A Moment and should be
| all over commercial space's (and the overall space program's)
| marketing as the face of the So What.
|
| The theme of folks self-congratulating themselves on another
| example of their exceptionalism is all over these events. It's a
| very long way from test pilots in the Air Force in the 50's, "The
| Right Stuff," and JFK's mission.
|
| This is a cynical take and rich or poor, going into space is
| going into space. An intense act, and who knows how I'd respond.
| But the contrast in this video showed that theme a bit -
| champaign showering and other "correct" reactions, Bezos rocking
| an astronaut uniform for some reason, while Shatner is just
| standing there speechless. Glad The Moment landed with him.
| hunterb123 wrote:
| Returning from "Space".
| 74d-fe6-2c6 wrote:
| "and I opened up my eyes and I gazed out for the very first time
| at the Earth from space and [...] if I had to pick one word to
| describe what I was feeling at that moment it would be really
| just ... meh" :D
|
| Astronaut Garrett Reisman Was Disappointed the First Time He Saw
| Earth from Space | Joe Rogan
|
| https://youtu.be/vSXi9PTh96w?t=80
| deadbolt wrote:
| This reminds me of a speech by the astronaut Russell Schweikart,
| which was partially featured (and where I first learned of it) in
| the video game _The Witness_.
|
| The audio and transcript can be found here:
| https://www.organism.earth/library/document/no-frames-no-bou...
| davidw wrote:
| His words are pretty moving, but it's a jarring contrast with
| the... uh, 'influencer' vibe I get from the people hanging out
| with them.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| there's a certain kind of person who is so hooked on attention
| and external signals they're almost zombie like.
|
| The exact same reaction I suspect you had to this I had at the
| Holocaust memorial in Berlin, the big concrete block one that
| is really jarring in person, yet you have people running around
| spilling their drinks over it while they take selfies. People
| who are legit dead behind the eyes, they can't take in where
| they are any more. Realizing that scared the crap out of me
| dogman144 wrote:
| Exactly, 100%. Shatner and what he's trying to convey is the So
| What of commercial space, and the influencer vibe on display is
| what so many sense about it as a reality.
| handrous wrote:
| Yeah, Bezos struggling to keep his attention on Shatner's
| apparently-sincere attempt to express his feelings about the
| experience, because he was distracted by all the celebration
| crap around and didn't actually seem to be trying _that hard_
| to be present with Shatner, was really gross. I believe the
| kids call it "cringe", and this video had so much of it I had
| to turn it off.
| ryandrake wrote:
| The clip [1] was kind of gross. Shatner is standing there,
| trying to make a thoughtful, serious, genuine statement about
| his feelings, and Bezos is repeatedly turning his head away,
| looking at everything else, like a kid distracted by an iPad.
| The champaign popping and the women in the big sunglasses
| yelling "wooooooo" like they're at a dance club was just
| icing on the cake. Finally, after all the horseplay was done,
| he turned back and gave the guy a chance to articulate.
|
| 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSNXBvpLb9o
| WWLink wrote:
| wow it sounds bad, but then you watch it and it's even
| worse lol. Poor Shatner.
| grkvlt wrote:
| to me, it seems like bezos did exactly the right thing. he
| got the champagne out the way, then listened to what
| shatner had to say. and then, when shatner got overwhelmed
| by emotions, bezos took off his sunglasses and hugged
| shatner, which was a really touching moment. it's really
| hard to listen to someone monologuing and not interrupt or
| distract them, probably more so if you're like bezos and
| used to being the centre of attention, but he does it and
| let's shatner have his say. good for both of them!
| wonderwonder wrote:
| Might just be me, but Shatner is attempting to communicate
| something profound that has altered him and Bezos just seems to
| want to party. Might just be different world views, Shatner is
| much older and has less time.
| irrational wrote:
| > Shatner is much older and has less time.
|
| When Shatner was talking about "is this death?", I was
| wondering if, as a 90 year old, he has had this subject on his
| mind.
| wonderwonder wrote:
| Very much struck me as a man suddenly confronting his own
| mortality and his place in the universe.
| stuart78 wrote:
| I thought that when he interrupted for champagne showers, but
| after that he seems more present in the conversation and really
| listening.
|
| I have to say that listening to Shatner's description made me
| more intrigued than the other stories I've heard from the
| recent visitors. His emotion, the voice, the particular idea he
| is trying to express of that change in perspective really
| captured the intensity of the experience in a way that made me
| want to know it as well.
| wonderwonder wrote:
| He struck me as a man nearing the end of his life that is
| struggling with mortality and had an experience that upended
| everything. Really personal, life changing experience that
| many don't get to see happen to others. Definitely made me
| want to go to space. Could just be that Shatner was the
| moment and Bezos interrupted it. I probably should not judge
| him for it after all he made it happen.
| cronix wrote:
| > He struck me as a man nearing the end of his life that is
| struggling with mortality and had an experience that
| upended everything.
|
| It could be, but I think it's more general.
|
| > Really personal, life changing experience that many don't
| get to see happen to others.
|
| That's how I saw it. I'm not nearly as old as Shatner, but
| I know I would have the exact same reaction he did. In
| fact, I did just listening to him struggle for the words to
| describe it because words we ascribe to "the best of
| things" like "awesome" just doesn't compare on that scale
| when we also use the same word to describe our favorite ice
| cream flavor. I think it's more of a major, major smack to
| your reality and life-long accumulated perspective when you
| personally witness, and feel, just how small we are, Earth
| is, compared to the vastness of space and what a special,
| unique place this is. Not on a 2 dimensional TV/Movie
| screen of a fixed size, but all encompassing. We haven't
| found anything like it so far, and there's a lot to choose
| from out there. If you're a deeply introspective person,
| that experience is almost akin to seeing God and I'm not
| sure age really figures in. Just a deep understanding -
| like I don't think a child would appreciate the experience
| nearly as much as an adult. In that part, maybe age has
| something to do with it...or maybe better labeled as "the
| longer you've been on Earth having your perception of
| reality programmed bound by the laws and your personal
| experiences of Earth," and then suddenly, completely and
| totally step outside of it kind of like waking up from a
| dream. You were in one reality one second with everything
| you have ever known, and now you're in a completely foreign
| place the next where absolutely nothing is like where you
| came from or have ever known.
| dTal wrote:
| >struggle for the words to describe it because words we
| ascribe to "the best of things" like "awesome" just
| doesn't compare on that scale when we also use the same
| word to describe our favorite ice cream flavor.
|
| Mandatory Eddie Izzard bit on _exactly_ this:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tVqN0prMro
| TMWNN wrote:
| >I thought that when he interrupted for champagne showers,
| but after that he seems more present in the conversation and
| really listening.
|
| Bezos isn't paying attention at first, but realizes what
| Shatner is saying and the feeling behind his words, and stops
| what he is doing to let Shatner unburden his soul.
|
| >I have to say that listening to Shatner's description made
| me more intrigued than the other stories I've heard from the
| recent visitors. His emotion, the voice, the particular idea
| he is trying to express of that change in perspective really
| captured the intensity of the experience in a way that made
| me want to know it as well.
|
| Yes. The event may be a stunt, but Shatner's words aren't.
| He's clearly overwhelmed, and his voice breaks as he thanks
| Bezos for giving him "this most profound experience". He then
| says he doesn't want to lose how he is feeling.
| tw04 wrote:
| It wasn't just you. Shatner was talking to Bezos and Bezos just
| couldn't have cared less and wasn't paying attention, he was
| more interested in finding champagne. Eventually when his
| girlfriend decided she needed some camera time, he finally
| pretended to care what Shatner had to say.
| DaveExeter wrote:
| The woman with the amazing rack that hugs Bill is Bezos'
| girlfriend?
| ptkd wrote:
| Okay, wow -- I had no idea Shatner was 90. He looks fantastic
| for his age
| nefitty wrote:
| It's insane! Add to that that his mind is still churning. How
| much work did he do or how lucky did he get to accomplish
| that amount of health...
| Willish42 wrote:
| Yeah that was pretty jarring. Even Bezos's responses were
| weirdly hollow. It's sad to see that Bezos's own talking-
| points-filled spiel after going to space (others have compared
| his statements before and after to show he kinda already had an
| angle planned for how he'd "react" to the overview effect)
| really reflects how pragmatic and matter-of-fact he feels about
| space. He couldn't even manage to sympathize with one of his
| childhood heroes speaking so poetically about how the trip
| affected him, despite being a man who dedicated most of his
| life to achieving the spacefaring future he saw on TV. Giving
| him a bit more credit, there could be some benign reason like
| maybe he's antsy/jealous about wanting to go to space again, or
| was nervous or relieved the flight didn't go wrong or
| something. I'm not even trying to make an "OMG Bezos is so
| evil" post or anything, it's just really sad to see him seem so
| uninspired, like he's become disillusioned after all the
| success he's had.
| javajosh wrote:
| I agree one shouldn't be too hard on Bezos in contrast to
| Shatner. Shatner is an actor, an artist, clearly in touch
| with his emotions and _open to the experience_ in ways that
| an engineer /industrialist is not. If anything, I think Bezos
| should get extra credit for having the good sense to invite
| Shatner up there.
|
| It's like what Jodie Foster said in _Contact_ - "they should
| have sent a poet." And now, they did.
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| It's like watching a developer party with the managers.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| Well yeah, Bezos has been on a Musk-envy mid-life crisis the
| last few years.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Envy has driven much of mankind's progress. Evolution
| provides us with these emotions because they work.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| I should make clear that I don't think Musk is _good_ or
| anything, just that Bezos was jealous of the constant press
| and fan club.
|
| Once narcissist infects spreads it to another, if anything.
| WalterBright wrote:
| > I should make clear that I don't think Musk is good or
| anything
|
| Why are you concerned others might think you think Musk is
| good?
|
| _I_ think Musk is good.
| JasonFruit wrote:
| I _don 't care_ if Musk is good; I think he does
| worthwhile, cool stuff. His moral standing is no more
| interesting to me than yours.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| I'm not concerned what other people think _I_ think in
| this case, I just want to remind other non-worshipers
| that they are not alone.
| khazhoux wrote:
| I don't understand this narrative. Does Musk now own the
| private pursuit of space travel? Was he the one who
| kickstarted X Prize or SpaceshipOne 20 years ago?
|
| Somehow Musk is a hero for SpaceX but Bezos is a wannabe for
| Blue Origin? Makes no sense.
| mehphp wrote:
| My take is that both Musk and Bezos are megalomaniacs.
| However, Musk at least _appears_ to genuinely care about
| space travel and it's implications for the future of
| humanity.
|
| For Bezos, it's just a dick measuring contest (and
| apparently influences his phallic rocket ship designs).
| PeterisP wrote:
| One aspect is that SpaceX actually succeeded in getting to
| space (orbit is what counts for the purposes of doing
| something useful in space or going any further in space,
| suborbital hops for tourists might technically check the
| box but is a dead-end) and Virgin Galactic and Blue Origin
| did not, despite starting earlier, making them at least in
| part actual "wannabe's" who have the desire to do what
| SpaceX does, but are not able to (at least for now).
| wonderwonder wrote:
| yeah, I came out of that viewing with a reduced opinion of
| Bezos and it may not be fair to judge him based on just a
| moment. Musk seems to approach space as a serious thing with
| deep existential consequences to failing. This is not to
| excuse Musk who has a litany of personality flaws but it just
| seems that one is a serious person and the other is not.
| heurisko wrote:
| > Musk seems to approach space as a serious thing
|
| Musk sent a car into space as a publicity stunt.
|
| My colleagues liked it, but I found it ... disappointing,
| that it seemed to signal an end of an era that did see
| space as a serious thing, like in the film For All Mankind.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| They had to launch a test payload. Might as well make it
| a fun one too.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Would you rather he'd sent a block of precisely-weighed
| concrete into space, like other dummy payloads on other
| booster tests? I disagree that it's worse to send a
| publicity stunt instead of something
| more...respectful?...boring and completely useless.
|
| I do agree that there are better things than publicity
| stunts to do with dummy payloads. You don't need to
| launch a multi-million-dollar satellite, but it would be
| low risk to launch a low-cost payload with corner
| reflectors for laser identification and distance
| measurement, chirping radio transmitters, or sensors,
| clocks, or radios for telemetry.
|
| You can construct a Cubesat for on the order of $10k, but
| it used to cost 10x that to launch and now costs about
| that much for a SpaceX rideshare to SSO. Surely you could
| construct something with at least a little utility to use
| as a dummy payload.
| zlsa wrote:
| I can't find a source for this info at the moment, but I
| believe Gwynne Shotwell saying that they'd actually
| approached NASA (and possibly other customers) and asked
| if they'd like to fly anything on the Falcon Heavy demo
| mission. Clearly, nobody took them up on the offer.
| tibyat wrote:
| It was just a rocket test...
| lapetitejort wrote:
| > Musk sent a car into space as a publicity stunt.
|
| I'd say maybe 10% of that stunt was for publicity. The
| rocket had to be tested, it had to include a payload, and
| sending a suit to space provided extra data as well.
|
| edit: let's also not forget that there always been an
| element of humor in spaceflight. Apollo 10's callsigns
| were Snoopy and Charlie Brown. Watch the funny moonwalk
| videos. Read transcripts of flights. It's okay to have a
| laugh in space. The astronauts who make it to Mars will
| sorely need it.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _let 's also not forget that there always been an element
| of humor in spaceflight_
|
| It's like the internet used to be in the old green screen
| and bang paths days.
|
| I remember everyone from DARPA on down had wonderful
| senses of humor. Today, even on HN which is supposed to
| represent the best of the internet, humor is largely
| frowned upon, or replaced with anger.
|
| Hopefully this slow opening up of space to the masses
| won't mean making everything sterile and boring, like
| happened to the 'net.
| wincy wrote:
| I mean, peoples lives are at stake. When you're doing
| something so impossible and so dangerous, a little humor
| really helps.
| FourHand451 wrote:
| I've never quite understood why a lot of people found
| launching the car to be so egregious. The first launch of
| a rocket routinely carries a "test mass" of some kind,
| which I understood to usually be a boring hunk of metal,
| or at least something that wouldn't be a great loss if
| the rocket failed. Putting a car on there didn't seem
| like a frivolous waste, as it would be unlikely for a
| customer to put forth a serious payload for the debut
| Falcon Heavy launch.
|
| Yes, it was kind of meme-y and marketing-y. But it is a
| business, and I also don't think being serious about
| something means you can never make a joke about it.
| bbarnett wrote:
| In Canada, a few years back, disaster preparedness
| exercises were to be held by a branch of the government.
|
| The point was to test emergency response, processes, etc.
|
| To make it fun, they chose zombies as the cause. Within a
| week of the media hearing of it, the entire exercise was
| canceled.
|
| Zombies, plague, natural disaster, nuclear accident, it
| mattered not, the tests were for existing response
| mechanisms, but oh no! Can't be fun!
|
| Bah.
| [deleted]
| danellis wrote:
| He's like Doc Brown. "The way I see it, if you're gonna
| make a payload out of a car, why not do it with some
| style?"
| _jal wrote:
| I think a lot of people are just grossed out by the
| symbolism.
|
| Destroying a car that retails for years of many folks'
| income in a flashy, ostentatious manner is going to look
| like lighting cigars with $100s to many people.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Except the car wasn't destroyed, it's actually flying out
| there - and maybe, one day in the future, someone will
| retrieve it.
|
| (I could understand people complaining about symbolism of
| sending a _sports car_ , of all things, to be a first
| private industry artifact in interplanetary space. But
| this doesn't seem to be a majority complaint.)
|
| Also: even the boring test mass payload would also cost
| "years of many folks' income". Not even counting the
| integration. Big things just costs big money - that's
| life for you. If someone is so sensitive about this, they
| probably shouldn't watch anything related to rockets _at
| all_.
| _jal wrote:
| > even the boring test mass payload would also cost
|
| Of course. I'm not talking about considered opinion, just
| knee-jerk human reactions to headlines.
|
| You can tell people they're wrong if you want. Let me
| know how that goes for you.
| spookthesunset wrote:
| Wait until they land their first Mars rover. I wouldn't
| be surprised if 25% of the available power gets dedicated
| to AV gear to send near real time HD 4K video back to
| earth. 'Cause cool videos are what gets people excited
| and paying attention. And I for one can't wait!
| rsj_hn wrote:
| There's always been a large performative aspect to all
| things space related. Even the original space race was
| basically an odd performance, similar to a sports
| performance (hence the "race"). What it showed us is that
| these types of performances are deeply satisfying to the
| public, which gives hope to those who refuse to view
| human beings as purely caring about their own material
| situation or personal comfort. A lot of national treasure
| and even some blood was spent on that "race", and still
| it is quite popular.
| wly_cdgr wrote:
| Serious != humorless
| wonderwonder wrote:
| I thought launching the car was genius. It captured the
| attention of so many people that otherwise would not be
| interested in the launch. Parents saw it as a way to
| capture their kids imagination (at least I did).
| Something had to go up, may as well not waste the
| experience. Wonder how many of Space X's contracts are a
| result of that moment.
| bpodgursky wrote:
| Musk offered NASA and the military a free satellite
| launch on the Falcon Heavy test, with the caveat it might
| blow up.
|
| They didn't bite.
| zlsa wrote:
| It was a test launch. The alternative would have been a
| block of metal.
| thepasswordis wrote:
| >Musk sent a car into space as a publicity stunt.
|
| This just seems like _such_ a stretch for something to
| get mad at Elon about.
|
| They needed to test the rocket. They used a couple of
| flight-proven (used) boosters that their competitors all
| would have throw into the trash, and instead of flying a
| hunk of concrete, flew one of Elon's cars.
|
| The car, by the way, is symbolic in that it _did_ usher
| in the end of ICE vehicles. Other companies tried to do
| EVs and failed, Tesla made it happen.
|
| Is it really better if the car had sat in a museum
| instead? What better symbolism could there be than to put
| it into a sort of museum in orbit around our sun? The day
| we are able to go and visit that car will be _another_
| hugely symbolic turning point for humanity.
| WalterBright wrote:
| > This is not to excuse Musk who has a litany of
| personality flaws
|
| Geez. Who doesn't have personality flaws?
| mmmpop wrote:
| Came to post this too. Bill Gates has plenty himself (and
| worse ones so far as I am concerned) but no one seems to
| mention that with the frequency they do Elon. Perhaps far
| fewer envy Gates' life compared to Elon's?
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Envy? Interesting accusation to throw out there.
|
| It is more believable that Bill Gates isn't really in the
| news much these days, but Elon is.
| mmmpop wrote:
| Just look at Bill and listen to him speak... that guy
| ain't talking his way into any romantic adventures if he
| weren't a gazillionaire.
|
| Elon's hair plugs aside, at least he's got a personality
| and isn't the ugliest guy in tech.
|
| So yeah, I'm coming from it totally from vanity but we're
| all human right? You couldn't pay me to be Bill Gates but
| I'd trade lives with Elon, no doubt.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Heh, I wouldn't take either one's life, for any amount of
| money. Now, if I could have 0.1% of either of their money
| and quietly continue to live as I do now, sign me up!
| rootusrootus wrote:
| We all do. Although I gotta say I haven't publicly called
| anyone a pedophile yet. Fans cut Musk a lot of slack, and
| they give him the benefit of the doubt way beyond what
| they'd give to just about anyone else.
| wonderwonder wrote:
| We all do :) I was comparing two people and trying to
| make it clear I did not expect anyone to be perfect. I am
| personally a fan of Musk and think he is making the world
| a better place.
| CapitalistCartr wrote:
| Space IS musk's business; Bezos is playing. His business is
| Amazon, and always will be.
| ulfw wrote:
| and Tesla is just a toy or what.
|
| Come on.
| bbarnett wrote:
| Tesla is how you make everything for Mars. H2, petrol,
| they need O2.
|
| Mars needs solar power, batteries, motors, and the
| ability to build vehicles of labour.
|
| Guess what Tesla does? It supports Mars.
| ccozan wrote:
| I said that many times to my friends, Musk has created an
| entire tech ecosystem that supports human life on Mars.
|
| The gig with the android is the last piece: there are
| dangers in space, where humans are not safe. This is
| where this comes in place.
| ASalazarMX wrote:
| Elon has said from the start that his end game is Mars
| colonization. All of his other enterprises are means to
| achieve that.
|
| He sounded like a loon back then, but not now.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| Still feel like Venus is the more serious option
|
| Mars is easier to "practice on", and get some toy
| colonies going, but once scale starts to matter, Venus is
| better.
|
| At some point, you rather have too much energy and good
| self-sufficiency at geological scales, than too little
| energy and bad self-sufficiency.
|
| Of course this stuff has been debated endlessly, but I do
| not recall reading the "Mars is the stepping stone, Venus
| is the real deal" needle thread.
|
| If Musk was serious, I think he would admit this, rather
| than hype-beasting the stepping stone and the real deal.
| wonderwonder wrote:
| Musk is ~50. His goal is to get a colony on mars. Mars is
| probably a lot easier to start with. Venus is a target
| probably 50 years after all of us have died. Its going to
| be the goal of someone that has likely not even been born
| yet. He is serious that's why he is aiming for an
| achievable goal. Venus is not an achievable goal with our
| technology level.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| If he were to come out and say "Mars is the stepping
| stone that I can do within my lifetime, and Venus is the
| real goal we can only think about once we establish the
| demand on Mars, probably after I'm dead", that would be
| great and I would have more respect for him.
| BitwiseFool wrote:
| I'm not sure what you mean with Venusian colonization.
| The surface is so utterly hostile that all probes we've
| managed to land only last for at most a few hours due to
| the intense atmospheric pressure, corrosive atmosphere,
| and temperatures hotter than the melting point of lead.
|
| Floating balloons were considered, but it turns out those
| have a whole host of practical engineering concerns that
| rule them out. Plus, getting back into orbit is nearly
| impossible from said cloudtop balloons. You'd basically
| need a full sized orbital rocket like the Falcon 9
| because the gravity is basically the same and the
| atmosphere is still a major concern.
| Brendinooo wrote:
| I'm very pro-Shatner here, I loved what he had to say. But I
| think other people were ready to party, and Bezos wanted to
| split the difference. Can't ignore the guys who spent over a
| million dollars each to be there, y'know?
| UseStrict wrote:
| For Shatner it seemed like he had a profound life-enhancing
| experience. For everyone else it looked like they were
| celebrating after some sort of extreme sport, or a roller
| coaster. It's hard to judge just by outward appearances, and
| the adrenalin rush must be intense, but no one else, even
| Bezos, seemed to really appreciate the enormity of the
| experience.
| davidw wrote:
| Towards the end of the clip, Bezos looks like he's
| calculating how much William Shatner Space Merchandise he
| could sell with this great video they're getting of a
| profoundly moved man.
| solarkraft wrote:
| "Man, this will be such good PR"
| nefitty wrote:
| "Hug me! The cameras are pointed at us!"
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| It's important for space travel to have spokespersons like
| William Shatner. He's expressive and genuine. He's an actor of
| course, but how much is that and how much is personal is beside
| the point. He can do more to promote the 'hearts and minds' of
| the world than any number of oligarchs.
| grkvlt wrote:
| i found richard branson's reaction to his space flight
| experience interesting too - the man is usually very polished
| and is the poster child for sound bitey pr, but the post
| landing interview showed him almost babbling incoheretly - it
| was obvious he had had an incredible and hard to define or
| articulate experience.
| thm76 wrote:
| I never really had an opinion about Jeff Bezos, but after seeing
| this video and how he's interrupting Shatner to spray some
| champagne - man, I can't say I like Jeff a single bit.
| xqcgrek2 wrote:
| A novice mistake. Never interrupt your expert employee (an
| actor) doing what they're good at. Leave it to the experts with
| lifelong acting experience to effuse on trivialities.
| thepasswordis wrote:
| Not only to spray some champagne, after he did he just threw
| the bottle on the ground.
| csours wrote:
| I think all national level politicians should be sent into orbit,
| and we only let them come back down when they understand and
| promise to play nice.
| NikolaeVarius wrote:
| I loved that in Seveneves, there was a world treaty that no
| politician could be part of the Ark
| TMWNN wrote:
| ... which the Hillary Clinton-expy US president promptly
| violates.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| I didn't see a lot of OG Star Trek, but I do feel like Boston
| Legal Shatner would have just this reaction.
| ztetranz wrote:
| Except that all he would have said was:
|
| Denny Crane!
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| This is, like, an extra big fishing trip. He recovered his
| vocabulary on those IIRC.
| aynyc wrote:
| Say again!
| _Microft wrote:
| Shatner was clearly overwhelmed as you can see from the
| transcript and had trouble to put the experience to words
| already. The one thing that I noticed was how ironic I thought it
| was that Shatner described the vast blackness of space as death
| and Earth as life. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly _true_ but
| just not what I would expect from _Captain Kirk_ who would call
| that a great adventure instead, most likely.
| sixdimensional wrote:
| I am following you here, but I also took this another way.
|
| I think what this comment was about was a person who recognizes
| his own mortality but could put that against the backdrop of
| the bigger picture of our own shared human mortality.
|
| I believe Shatner was recognizing the pure inhospitability of
| space to human life and the fact that we are propelling
| ourselves into it. If anything I think this was precisely a
| commentary on the very nature of the risk and adventure that
| space represents. Also a recognition of how much we thread the
| needle even just living on the Earth.
|
| For if it were not that true exploration and adventure came at
| risk of life and limb, if the very risk of living did not
| include the risk of death, then what is it really? Thinking of
| the early explorers of the Earth, many who died doing so, and
| who risked it all in the name of exploration and adventure.
|
| If I ever heard a more realistic characterization of what it
| truly means "to boldly go" where no one has gone before... I
| can't think of it.
|
| I am eager to see further debriefing from Shatner, I think he
| will have much to say. In so far as they wanted to achieve
| sending a different kind of personality to space, to learn what
| human experience would be like, I think this was an incredible
| success.. putting all the commercial aspects aside.
| inanutshellus wrote:
| It was jarring and a bit ironic* to hear William Shatner call
| space "black ugliness" and the embodiment of "death", for sure.
|
| That said, I know we all get his meaning. This tiny blue dot,
| our collective "blue origin" (har), for humanity is life,
| livelihood... everything. And it's so fragile and insignificant
| against the immensity of the universe.
|
| I wish all world leaders could have such an epiphany as he
| clearly had.
|
| * Notably, Shatner is familiar to us as the confidently-space-
| faring Captain Kirk, a character that brought to the world the
| idea that space travel is the mundane, normal, expected next
| step for humanity.
| chrisco255 wrote:
| Your definition of fragile is different than mine. It's
| clearly antifragile as it has survived and thrived for
| billions of years.
| inanutshellus wrote:
| Tell that to the dinosaurs.
| spaceflower wrote:
| Experiencing this is on my bucket list, along with creating
| another life.
| watt wrote:
| What, at the same time? You sly dog.
| mrleinad wrote:
| The 300 mile-high club
| inanutshellus wrote:
| Because it's not in the article:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_effect
|
| > The overview effect is a cognitive shift in awareness reported
| by some astronauts during spaceflight, often while viewing the
| Earth from outer space
| hateful wrote:
| I blew my daughters mind a number of years ago after watching
| Horton Hears a Who - we're on earth, which is a tiny ball of
| dust in space - WE ARE THE WHOS.
| Karellen wrote:
| I have to wonder, given that astronauts in the past have talked
| about getting the Overview Effect from seeing all of the Earth
| pass beneath then, and that they'll have had hours to take this
| in - do people going 100km up over a single spot for 10 minutes
| really experience it?
|
| Or have they just heard that the Overview Effect is a thing,
| and are projecting whatever it is they do feel while they're up
| there, onto it?
| marcodiego wrote:
| I wonder if the Overview Effect influenced Shuttleworth to
| create Ubuntu.
| wly_cdgr wrote:
| Given the visceral intensity of this effect, it seems like the
| best hope for world peace or at least the continued survival of
| the human race is to send as many people into space as possible
| as soon as possible, starting with world leaders
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| Along with the telephone sanitizers.
| poetaster wrote:
| And leave them up there.
| 09bjb wrote:
| Or, you know, legalize the hundreds of psychedelic plants
| that grow like weeds all over the world that have the same
| effect at an imperceptibly small fraction of the economic and
| environmental cost...
|
| Anecdote featuring both:
| https://boingboing.net/2019/04/08/stewart-brand-talks-
| about-...
|
| (Stewart Brand founded the Long Now Foundation)
| wly_cdgr wrote:
| Sure, why not both
| motoboi wrote:
| Given that Stewart Brand is not himself an astronaut I
| suppose he has zero experience with overview effect and as
| such, cannot really vouch for the hypothesis that overview
| effect is similar to psychedelic experiences.
| evo_9 wrote:
| "And then suddenly you shoot up through it all of the sudden...
| as if you whip off the sheet off you when you are asleep.. And
| you're looking into blackness. Into BLACK UGLINESS... And you
| look down and there's the blue down there... and the black up
| there and it's... it's just... there is Mother Earth... and
| comfort... and there is ....is there death? I don't know! Is that
| death?" - Shatner
| WalterBright wrote:
| "Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void,
| without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you
| had known anything about the true nature of the universe,
| anything at all, you would have hidden from it in terror."
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I haven't seen that in ages...
| WalterBright wrote:
| It even looks like Flash Gordon's rocket!
| Karellen wrote:
| Zarkov's rocket. Credit where it's due, please! :-)
| WalterBright wrote:
| Musk needs to build war rocket 'Ajax'.
| KineticLensman wrote:
| And then launch Brian Blessed, who no doubt will have a
| few quiet words after his mission.
| WalterBright wrote:
| "That must be one hell of a planet you men come from!"
| rpmisms wrote:
| Watching this live, my thought process was "Wow, Jeff has no
| soul, and Shatner just had a good talk with his own."
|
| Very interesting to see an old man's reaction to space, though. I
| can't imagine topping off a good life with that experience.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| As an aside: I know the thin grey fonts are trendy, but please
| have some consideration for those whose eyesight isn't as good as
| yours.
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| This man had a profound psychedelic experience.
| lostmsu wrote:
| No, this man had a profound genuine experience.
| xqcgrek2 wrote:
| No, the man _can_ act and sell a $100,000 /hour joy ride.
| f00zz wrote:
| Come on, if he were just acting you'd expect a more
| coherent speech.
| mrleinad wrote:
| If he's good, you probably wouldn't be able to tell if
| he's faking that too ;)
| grkvlt wrote:
| sincere question: can you have a profound _fake_ experience?
| what would that be, or look like?
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| psychedelic (adj.) occasionally psychodelic, "producing
| expanded consciousness through heightened awareness and
| feeling," 1956, of drugs, suggested by British-born Canadian
| psychiatrist Humphry Osmond in a letter to Aldous Huxley and
| used by Osmond in a scientific paper published the next year;
| from Greek psykhe "mind" (see psyche) + deloun "make visible,
| reveal" (from delos "visible, clear," from PIE root *dyeu-
| "to shine").
| romanhn wrote:
| _Shatner: "It's so THIN! To... to.. To dirty it... I mean, that's
| another whole subject... "
|
| Jeff: "And you shoot through... what you were saying about...
| you're shooting through it so fast!"_
|
| Smooth Jeff, smooth. "so, anyways..."
| scoot wrote:
| I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed Jeff steering the
| discussion away from environmental concerns. It seemed more
| blatant than smooth though.
| _Microft wrote:
| I was disappointed how Bezos handled that 'interview'. I
| understand that Shatner wasn't well articulated in that moment
| and that it took some effort to follow his thoughts as he still
| seemed to be in awe ("I hope that I can maintain what I feel
| now...") but Bezos' reaction was really shallow and he did not
| seem to be genuinely interested.
| Vrondi wrote:
| My respect for William Shatner is only increased by his words and
| reaction. Meantime, my respect for Bezos is only lessened by his.
| ToJoh wrote:
| Bummer that it meant releasing a massive cloud of planet-heating
| greenhouse gas into the atmosphere of this little blue dot.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/28/fac...
|
| > The New Shepard uses a rocket engine, called Blue Engine 3,
| that runs on fuel combining liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen.
| When these elements react with each other, they generate a
| tremendous amount of heat and the propulsive force to get the
| rocket off the ground.
|
| > Since there's no carbon contained in the fuel, no carbon
| dioxide is emitted during the launch or into the atmosphere,
| Eloise Marais, an air pollution researcher at the University
| College London, told USA TODAY via email.
|
| > Darin Toohey, an atmospheric scientist at the University of
| Colorado, Boulder, agreed, telling Live Science that the main
| emissions from Bezos' rocket would be "water and some minor
| combustion products, and virtually no CO2."
| robotresearcher wrote:
| > no carbon dioxide is emitted during the launch or into the
| atmosphere
|
| It takes a lot of energy to capture that hydrogen and oxygen
| beforehand. The same energy that the rocket releases, plus
| losses due to process inefficiencies.
|
| Maybe they take pains to use only renewables. If not, they
| likely emitted plenty of CO2 in advance of the launch.
| roughly wrote:
| It's worth noting and celebrating when we can do something
| like power a rocket without having carbon emissions
| intrinsic to that process.
|
| It's the same argument against electric cars - "oh, well
| the electricity might be made in a coal plant!" Sure, but
| we know how to solve _that_ problem, it's this _other_ one
| we've been trying to figure out.
| boplicity wrote:
| It's possible to make zero carbon electrofuels. The
| question is a matter of excess cost and scalability. Right
| now the price of "clean hydrogen" is eight times the price
| of dirty hydrogen. [1]
|
| That's a rather exorbitant difference. Maybe in the future,
| the difference will be more manageable and scalable. As it
| stands now, there's a lot of work to do.
|
| Note, this is super important to solve because battery
| power doesn't work for heavy things, such as large
| aircraft, shipping vessels, etc.
|
| [1] https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-shot-
| summit-b...
| NikolaeVarius wrote:
| The amount of self-inflated grandstanding on CO2 matters is
| astonishing.
|
| It took a lot of energy to make the computer you're typing
| on, shame on you.
| robotresearcher wrote:
| That's right, and so does generating the electricity to
| charge the battery. Which is why I don't have stories
| written about how no CO2 is released as I use my computer
| from its charged battery. It'd be fair to scorn me if I
| did.
|
| BTW, I think it's great that this rocket emits almost
| nothing but steam at runtime.
| postalrat wrote:
| If you want to make an omelette you have to break some eggs.
| intrepidhero wrote:
| Growing up watching Star Trek, I experienced a shift in thinking.
| It imparted this idea that humanity's real home was among the
| stars and one day earth might be only a small part of human
| civilization. That we are capable of so much more. It was a
| beautiful, mind expanding idea.
|
| I'm glad that Mr Shatner could have this profound experience. It
| sounds like he got to experience some of the same wonder and
| beauty that he portrayed through Star Trek, only aimed back at
| our home. There's a kind of circular completeness to it.
|
| The earth is so precious and our lives so tenuous, we must strive
| to do better, to be better. The "ugly blackness" is terribly
| hostile and the "thin sheet" is all that stands between us and
| death.
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