[HN Gopher] Self Destructing Plastics via Embedded Enzymes
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       Self Destructing Plastics via Embedded Enzymes
        
       Author : baybal2
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2021-10-12 18:12 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (contest.techbriefs.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (contest.techbriefs.com)
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | I can't help but think this and other attempts at
       | biodegradability going to lead to even more planned obsolescence.
       | Things which used to last basically forever will self-destruct
       | with no way to stop it; of course it'll be heralded as the next
       | generation of environmental friendliness, but it's actually a way
       | to keep the consumers consuming and the producers producing
       | (nevermind how much resources get used in the production of these
       | things...)
        
         | asxd wrote:
         | I think that's exactly the point. In this context, planned
         | obsolescence of plastics is the goal, because currently they
         | last much longer than needed. I'm having trouble seeing how
         | this might lead to planned obsolescence of non-plastic goods
         | that you would want to keep around for a long while.
        
         | WalterBright wrote:
         | I have some older plastic items that have become very fragile
         | and brittle. They're not lasting forever.
         | 
         | I also left one of those clear plastic tubs where the sun
         | shines through a window on it. After a couple years, the
         | plastic became very brittle, lost its strength, and the tub
         | pretty much disintegrated.
        
         | bordercases wrote:
         | The current situation is that planned obsolescence exists
         | without biodegradable materials. So you get two externalities:
         | products that aren't made to last due to poor make causing
         | artificial demand, which also won't degrade when disposed.
         | 
         | So now we can potentially legislate the use of biodegradable
         | materials where planned obsolescence exists, while
         | simultaneously demanding less planned obsolescence as a
         | separate problem.
         | 
         | You might argue that there would be less reason to respond to
         | incentives if disposables were more environmentally efficient
         | to maintain, but on the other hand I'm unsure if producers are
         | responding now in the first place. This is an area where I'd be
         | happy to be proven wrong.
        
         | johnebgd wrote:
         | Things wear out. Thats a natural part of life.
         | 
         | Ensuring that the things wearing out can be biodegradable is a
         | big net positive for society.
         | 
         | Making things more repairable / upgradeable is a good way to
         | make things last longer.
        
         | Sebb767 wrote:
         | To be fair, reducing the lifespan from a few centuries to a few
         | decades will not impact most consumers. Especially if we're
         | talking about stuff that'll see very few uses, such as plastic
         | bags.
        
       | dpeck wrote:
       | If it's economically viable, there is no way that this isn't used
       | against buyers as part of planned obsolescence schemes.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | This will become a prime example of 'being poor is expensive'.
        
       | microplastics wrote:
       | Not enough information here to really pass judgement, but
       | multiple issues to consider: 1) 40C is easily the temperature
       | products will see on a tarmac in Arizona while being shipped
       | cross country. Unless they are working with enzymes with a higher
       | temperature range, this would essentially require a cold chain
       | and limit end-use environments which would be a nonstarter for
       | most manufacturers/products. 2) Most plastics are melt processed
       | (extruded/injection molded) at temperatures high enough to
       | denature enzymes/proteins, I do not see an indication that they
       | are working with a heat stable enzyme, which suggests they are
       | relying on manufacturing methods that are likely to be less
       | economically viable. 3) Enzymes are expensive! Unless they are
       | working with (or are plausibly developing) a cost effective
       | solution, I wouldn't be surprised if their material is orders of
       | magnitude more expensive than commodity packaging plastics.
        
         | stevespang wrote:
         | All important points, enzyme proteins are quite temperature
         | sensitive
        
       | frellus wrote:
       | Beautiful, love it - let's get on with it already, though. I hate
       | plastic, I love these ideas. Down with plastic, bring back glass
       | for all liquids at a minimum.
        
       | gootler wrote:
       | Who gives a fuck. Have pla forever, plant based plastics, break
       | down seamlessly.
        
       | btbuildem wrote:
       | These enzyme-embedded plastics should be the cheapest option, so
       | that all the disposable garbage that gets made would use them as
       | ingredients. Durable / long lasting plastics would cost a premium
       | and only get used for things meant to last.
        
         | blawson wrote:
         | In general love the idea of these sorts of plastics
         | improvements and hope it can solve a lot of the existing waste
         | issue. And cut down on the awful micro plastics!
         | 
         | But the cynic in me is wondering about the articles 10 years
         | down the road talking about how these enzymes are now basically
         | "salting the earth" and we can't wait to figure out how to get
         | them out of the soil and water.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | That is my worry. They are putting in a development near my
           | house so I'm watching them put in a lot of pipes using a
           | large amount of energy (6 high horse power tractors emitting
           | a lot of CO2 for weeks on end). If those pipes last forever
           | (as currently expected), then overall the impact is low, but
           | if they start degrading we will be spending even more CO2 to
           | replace them.
           | 
           | Though a part of me wonders how much more it would cost to
           | put in a subway when they already have the ground dug up.
        
           | drekipus wrote:
           | You're right, best to stick with the good ol' reliable
           | 1000-years-to-break-down pollution
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | userbinator wrote:
             | I suspect plastics may become as valuable as oil today in
             | the far future.
        
               | therein wrote:
               | Opinions on this?
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdSjyvIHVLw
        
               | Nasrudith wrote:
               | If you define far future as far enough then it may well
               | be coal or oil. The same thing with lignin is what made
               | coal - it was a hydrocarbon "plastic" of its day that
               | bacteria hadn't figured out how to consume.
               | 
               | Of course if we assume a remotely industrial era
               | progression of advances oil reserves may be near-
               | worthless. Why dig down say fifty feet for enough oil to
               | fill the shelves of a Walmart camping section?
        
             | therein wrote:
             | It isn't an either this or that kind of situation. You're
             | imposing a false dichotomy on the issue.
             | 
             | Just because we don't want to stick with the good ol'
             | reliable 1000-years-to-break-down pollution like the way
             | you put it, doesn't mean we should jump on the first
             | promising path we see. Or else you might find yourself in
             | ten years with all the seagulls dead or something.
        
             | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-12 23:01 UTC)