[HN Gopher] My first year at Magic Leap and the opportunity ahead
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       My first year at Magic Leap and the opportunity ahead
        
       Author : 74d-fe6-2c6
       Score  : 122 points
       Date   : 2021-10-12 10:29 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.magicleap.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.magicleap.com)
        
       | wongarsu wrote:
       | Is it just me, or is that announcement full of weirdly specific
       | statements. Like "Magic Leap 2 will be the industry's smallest
       | and lightest device built for enterprise adoption", implying that
       | smaller/lighter devices exist, just not ones specifically built
       | for enterprise adoption.
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | It's a contrast against HoloLens 2.
        
           | wongarsu wrote:
           | That makes some sense. They should have just said "smaller
           | and lighter than AR headsets produced by any company
           | headquartered in Redmond, WA"
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | They should stop pre-announcing and just ship something great.
         | Nothing good has ever come from their PR machine.
        
         | lkdjfglkj wrote:
         | It's not just you. They're called weasel words
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
        
           | somedude895 wrote:
           | "Benito Mussolini was the kindest, most wonderful and
           | generous man among all the axis leaders."
           | 
           | Works wonders
        
             | fsloth wrote:
             | Would be ethnical majority resident of Mussolini's Italia
             | over Stalin's USSR 10/10. Man the bleakness of those
             | options.
        
               | delecti wrote:
               | Aren't the the alternatives Germany or Japan? I'm not at
               | all a WW2 expert, but I don't think that decision is
               | quite as clearcut (at least between Germany or Italy).
               | 
               | Though the question was about the leaders, and I'm even
               | less confident in my ability to imagine an answer to that
               | question.
        
               | fsloth wrote:
               | I humorously selected just one pairing of 'specific axis
               | state' - 'specific notorious allied state'. It was not
               | intended as a serious analysis of average life outcomes
               | in said totalitarian regimes.
        
               | [deleted]
        
       | beambot wrote:
       | > According to IDC, the AR/VR market is expected to grow to
       | nearly $140 billion by the end of 2024.
       | 
       | That number seems wildly exaggerated... unless I'm missing
       | something?
        
         | alasdair_ wrote:
         | >That number seems wildly exaggerated... unless I'm missing
         | something?
         | 
         | Both Apple and Facebook are wildly understood to be launching
         | AR glasses with serious marketing pushes in 2022.
         | 
         | 100 million units sold between the two of them over 2.5 years
         | at an average price around the price of an iPhone (so $1000)
         | plus some app sales adds up to $140BN. I guess. I agree that
         | even there it seems high.
        
         | lostgame wrote:
         | Yeah, seems way too high.
         | 
         | I recently got an Oculus Quest 2 and was immediately stunned by
         | the dearth of content that exists on the platform.
         | 
         | AR/VR is a hard sell, still; besides the initial experience -
         | and as a dev in the AR/VR industry I'm honestly waiting for
         | when we can get rid of the screen door effect in VR and better
         | solutions to the lighting problem in AR.
        
           | yughurt wrote:
           | If you're interested in what's possible atm, check out the
           | Varjo XR-3. No screen door effect.
        
       | supermatt wrote:
       | Are the any AR headsets that will give me a good multi-monitor
       | setup where I can still see everything going on around me? Id
       | happily pay $1500 for something like that.
        
         | metafunctor wrote:
         | No, that does not exist as of today.
         | 
         | If you can settle for VR, you might be happy with Immersed and
         | Vive Focus 3.
         | 
         | There are no AR headsets today that would be remotely useful
         | for day-to-day work, let alone with any kind of passable
         | software support. Stuff from Varjo (like the XR-3) is getting
         | there, but it's not there yet.
        
         | dexterdog wrote:
         | Why would you want the segregation of multiple monitors with a
         | headset?
        
         | dagw wrote:
         | https://varjo.com/products/xr-3/ is probably as close as you'll
         | get today. However it costs around $6k and is still far from
         | perfect.
        
       | cyberpsybin wrote:
       | *Scam Leap 2
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | 'Enterprise' is the right market. You can afford what this costs
       | if it saves you the consequences of doing a concrete pour wrong.
        
       | raesene9 wrote:
       | I must admit I'd forgotten about Magic Leap, amazed to see
       | they're still going and raising even more money.
       | 
       | In my head, I always put them in a bucket with Theranos and
       | uBeam, Startups who made product claims which experts in their
       | fields said were not possible.
       | 
       | I guess slick marketing wins over those doubts in some VC circles
       | but you wonder if anyone at the early stage Magic Leap investors
       | is getting asked tough questions about why they approved it, or
       | if they've all just moved on to other roles.
        
         | 908B64B197 wrote:
         | > I must admit I'd forgotten about Magic Leap, amazed to see
         | they're still going and raising even more money.
         | 
         | It's basically the only alternative for an investor who wants
         | to get into AR, other than buying MSFT of AAPL stocks. That's
         | why, despite shipping a V1 almost as good as the HoloLens V1
         | they are getting funded again.
         | 
         | Problem is, by the time Magic Leap gets it's V2 out there's a
         | good chance we'll be seeing HoloLens V3 in the field.
        
         | krageon wrote:
         | I have tried the leap in practice and the experience was
         | significantly above what I expected. The tracking worked most
         | of the time (how???), with occasional wonkyness. The accuracy
         | was very good (outside of the wonks). Where it is very limited
         | is number of applications.
        
           | cmeacham98 wrote:
           | The problem, to me, looks like getting 90% of the way there
           | is possible. However, getting from 90% to 99.9% (to get rid
           | of that "wonkyness"), seems to be way way way harder. Magic
           | Leap has made little to no progress in working out the kinks
           | in their product despite raising literally billions of
           | dollars.
        
             | tomas789 wrote:
             | I wrote a camera/IMU tracking software (VIO) before. I can
             | confirm this statement. Get it working is difficult and
             | requires getting all the algos right. Getting it work
             | reliably is a lot of rigorous testing, collecting datasets,
             | evaluating slightest changes, tuning numerical stability,
             | experimenting with different techniques which might work
             | better in low light and optimizing for the hardware (VIO is
             | intensive but the best VIO is useless if there is no
             | computation power left for the app itself).
             | 
             | Neither of this is required for a slick demo in well lit
             | room and perhaps on better HW.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | The 90% statement is both true and is one of the things
             | that really sucks people in. There are any number of
             | technologies that kinda/sorta work as a PoC. There's a
             | gaping chasm between that PoC and a viable working product
             | but a lot of people look at the PoC and can imagine what
             | the working product looks like--and think to themselves
             | that it's only about some refinement.
        
           | AshamedCaptain wrote:
           | What can one say? I also tried it (have always been fan of
           | new interaction methods) and was severely disappointed. Even
           | the "put reflective stickers on your fingers and use an off-
           | the-shelf wiimote" had better tracking, though it is
           | obviously less convenient.
           | 
           | That said, I am waiting for v2 from these guys and/or anyone
           | else.
        
             | IshKebab wrote:
             | Edit: Oops replied to the wrong comment.
        
               | krageon wrote:
               | They were talking about fingers and we're talking about
               | leap. It's about hands :)
        
               | dfcowell wrote:
               | I think you're talking about Leap Motion, not Magic Leap.
               | I made the same mistake until I dug into the article.
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | You mean the headset position tracking? That already worked
           | very reliable on the Hololens years ago, and it works almost
           | as well on the Quest, which is far far cheaper. It was a
           | solved technology before the Magic Leap launched. Or did you
           | mean some other kind of tracking?
        
         | nikanj wrote:
         | > I guess slick marketing wins over those doubts in some VC
         | circles but you wonder if anyone at the early stage Magic Leap
         | investors is getting asked tough questions about why they
         | approved it, or if they've all just moved on to other roles.
         | 
         | I would guess this depends on whether or not they managed to
         | hoist the stock to someone else in subsequent rounds. Investing
         | in a scam can still be a good deal, as long as you get out
         | before the jig is up
        
           | eberkund wrote:
           | *as long as you _get out_ before the jig is up
        
           | spaetzleesser wrote:
           | That seems to be the playbook for today's highly valued
           | unicorns. Squeeze out all the value then dump the stock on
           | the public before things start going down. It's not exactly a
           | scam but it's the same kind of thinking: Doing irrational
           | things is fine as long as you are confident there will be a
           | greater fool later on.
        
         | cptskippy wrote:
         | > In my head, I always put them in a bucket with Theranos and
         | uBeam, Startups who made product claims which experts in their
         | fields said were not possible.
         | 
         | What was it that experts said wasn't possible about Magic Leap?
         | My understanding was that their product was a more advanced
         | version of the tech in Microsoft's HaloLens and the primary
         | challenges for both were bringing down the cost, expanding the
         | FOV and DOF, and finding realistic use cases.
         | 
         | Microsoft went the enterprise route, like Google did with Lens,
         | while Magic Leap tried to release something that felt boutique.
        
         | breezeTrowel wrote:
         | > _Startups who made product claims which experts in their
         | fields said were not possible._
         | 
         | Can you clarify what you mean by this? What aspect is
         | considered impossible? Augmented Reality has been around for a
         | while. There's the Microsoft HoloLens. Not to mention all the
         | AR demos Apple does whenever they announce a new iPhone.
         | 
         | Check out this page, for example:
         | 
         | https://www.apple.com/augmented-reality/
         | 
         | especially the Snapchat one. You have rendered images being
         | obscured by physical objects directly "in front" of them.
         | 
         | If anything, Magic Leap seems a bit ordinary with only its size
         | being the standout feature. But, even there, it looks like
         | they're already beat by Snapchat's Specatcles (see:
         | https://www.spectacles.com/ )
         | 
         | So I fail to see how Magic Leap's product claims are in any way
         | similar to Theranos or uBeam. If anything, their claims are not
         | that impressive given the competition.
        
           | adrr wrote:
           | I wonder if Microsoft spent $2.5 billion to develop HoloLens.
        
           | josefresco wrote:
           | https://www.spectacles.com/creatorform "The new Spectacles
           | are not for sale."
        
             | excalibur wrote:
             | The Spectacles aren't even an AR headset, although they do
             | include a cheap-looking VR viewer. They're primarily a 3D
             | camera you can wear on your face.
        
           | jazzyjackson wrote:
           | ????
           | 
           | the hype was around their fiber scanning display patents,
           | they were showing investors a totally new technology that
           | projects images into your eyeballs. There are numerous
           | articles describing the patented pie-in-the-sky vs the state-
           | of-the-art, just one example here: [0]
           | 
           | > They don't even have an decent brightness control of the
           | pixels and didn't even attempt to show color reproduction
           | (requiring extremely precise laser control). Yes the images
           | are old, but there are a series of extremely hard problems
           | outlined above that are likely not solvable which is likely
           | why we have not seen any better pictures of an FSD from
           | ANYONE (ML or others) in the last 7 years.
           | 
           | Magic Leap was unable to improve and miniaturize this
           | technology - its a dead end - so they ended up using the same
           | tech as everyone else
           | 
           | [0] https://kguttag.com/2016/11/28/magic-leap-no-fiber-scan-
           | disp...
        
           | gurumeditations wrote:
           | Clearly you do not know of their history leading up to the
           | release of the first ML device. Hype, magical promises, and
           | fake demos galore.
        
             | yodon wrote:
             | > Clearly you do not know ...
             | 
             | Your comment would work just as well and could be just as
             | informative without the personal attack
        
           | tootie wrote:
           | What they lied about was the fidelity. They made demo video
           | in 2015 that was a fully prerendered video of what they
           | expected their AR experience to look like. Years later, the
           | top of line headsets are fuzzy and very limited in field of
           | view and have not seen any adoption outside of very niche
           | applications.
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/ctUx3BzuQgQ
        
           | raesene9 wrote:
           | I was careful to say "product claims" and not products. I
           | don't doubt AR is possible, but that the claims Magic Leap
           | made in their early demonstrations were not realistic.
           | 
           | I was thinking of the early demonstrations they had, where
           | the lighting and occlusion just didn't seem plausible (e.g.
           | the infamous whale demo https://youtu.be/LM0T6hLH15k?t=30).
           | These early demos were called out by skeptics as being not
           | plausible (https://www.theregister.com/2016/12/09/magic_leap_
           | neither_ma... or https://www.theinformation.com/articles/the-
           | reality-behind-m...)
           | 
           | Is AR possible, sure, but it has restrictions and when Magic
           | Leap's product hit the market those restrictions were
           | obvious.
        
         | systemvoltage wrote:
         | Theranos was doing illegal things.
        
         | baybal2 wrote:
         | One on my list of mind boggling "Tech 2.0" scams were:
         | 
         | 1. Teranos
         | 
         | 2. Magic Leap
         | 
         | 3. Andelur Ghost
         | 
         | Only the last one still didn't get enough media attention.
         | People who scored Andelur handshakes with the military &
         | intelligence are the types who did it for Advanced Tactical
         | Security & Communications Ltd (
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651 )
         | 
         | Andelur is basically trying to sell the governments around the
         | world a Chinese toy copter for millions of dollars through
         | incredible "Tech 2.0" type marketing fudging.
         | 
         | One thing these fellows can do for sure is a Hollywood grade
         | CG. I was with a company on a competing bid for border patrol
         | drone.
         | 
         | Even I, somebody with quite good experience with CG, was
         | initially fooled by their videos. Indeed, they intentionally
         | were trying to numb your guard by showing it flying in the
         | rain, and being sprayed by water.
         | https://youtu.be/5xDEroiMQWk?t=100
         | 
         | It took me a few minutes to figure out that the rain, and water
         | spay in their videos were also impressively disguised computer
         | graphics.
        
           | notabanker wrote:
           | Do you mean Anduril?
           | 
           | I have only a passing knowledge of Anduril, thanks for
           | sharing your impression of them. But knowing his track
           | record, I tend to believe Palmer Luckey has the ability to
           | achieve daring innovations. That said, with quantum leap
           | innovation, failure is the more likely outcome.
        
             | baybal2 wrote:
             | _> Ghost is practically invisible to the targets it
             | observes, with a frontal cross-section smaller than some of
             | the phones I have owned over the years. Stay tuned for true
             | invisibility._
             | 
             | I don't tend to believe people telling something like this
             | being credible.
             | 
             | Especially when they try to pass lobotomised Chinese RC toy
             | heli for "an Apex of Aerospace Engineering," and carefully
             | photoshops all its photos to disguise its Made in China
             | ancestry https://ibb.co/8DT5JMc
             | 
             | And now these guys seem to be heading towards starting an
             | IPO.
        
               | notabanker wrote:
               | The video you shared is unbelievable (in every sense of
               | the word).
        
           | knownjorbist wrote:
           | Would you care to reply to the people who attest that the
           | magic leap is actually underwhelming given the current state
           | of AR?
        
             | baybal2 wrote:
             | I will. I work in an engineering company which shipped a
             | number of AR glasses projects (for clients I can't name,)
             | and I can say that whomever did engineering for Magic Leap
             | had no idea whatsoever about basics of optics, and such.
             | 
             | And their overall engineering level is totally amateurish
             | -- you cannot have such shoddy job being done for money,
             | let alone such amount of money, but they have everything to
             | tick the checkbox in the buzzword department: waveguides,
             | holographics, structural colour, photonic chips...
             | 
             | Want talk more, leave a way to contact you on your profile
             | page
             | 
             | One main point:
             | 
             | Holographic waveguides, and such are a dead end development
             | with a substandard image quality which you cannot do
             | anything about, as well as its inefficiency (these
             | waveguides waste 70-90%+ of light.)
             | 
             | You can make them more opaque to preserve more light, but
             | then you get VR sunglasses, instead of what the promise is.
             | 
             |  _The fundamental problem is that the amount of image light
             | transferred is inversely proportional to the amount of
             | light obscured._ -- they are extremely inefficient, and
             | there is physically no way around this.
             | 
             | For this reason this solution really had to be sent to the
             | wastebin on day one, and not be presented as the next best
             | thing after sliced bread. This is obvious to anybody
             | knowing optics on above a high school level, and it's
             | inconceivable how anybody paying real engineers can opt for
             | this solution.
        
       | KaiserPro wrote:
       | its interesting that they appear to only have two SLAM cameras
       | (that I can see)
       | 
       | I can see at the front they have two extra cameras, that look
       | like they are a near/far pair.
       | 
       | It'll be interesting to see what the tracking performance is
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | I am impressed they aren't defunct. After all they raised $3B[1]
       | and their valuation is $2B so they are a long way away from
       | making their investors whole. They did replace their entire top
       | line management team it seems so maybe that helps?
       | 
       | A friend of mine who was approaching AR from a more theoretical
       | point rather than a product point shared some of the physics of
       | how many nits of brightness the display needs to produce to
       | occlude the actual background and it is a lot. ML worked around
       | some of that problem by shading the background think sunglasses
       | with a 50% light reduction, which helps but then you're trying to
       | match shading. Basically it is a really hard problem and had they
       | not been so "out there" in their original claims I really don't
       | think they would be so challenged in their marketing now.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/magic-leap
        
       | gilrain wrote:
       | They're pivoting to enterprise, eh. So.
       | 
       | Industrial Leap and Magic?
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | _" We have accelerated the organization's pivot to enterprise."_
       | 
       | Or, "we can't make this affordable".
        
         | eitally wrote:
         | It somewhat amuses me to see the parallels with Google Glass in
         | this regard. I worry the enterprise market may already be quite
         | crowded, though, and there are ample niche vendors specializing
         | in AR for different use cases (construction, manufacturing,
         | medicine/surgery, etc). I don't know that Magic Leap isn't a
         | year late and a dollar short.
        
       | camillomiller wrote:
       | The real news is that they still have capital to invest in
       | development. I honestly thought they were already dead. They
       | might need a rebranding.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | emsy wrote:
       | Possible Edison 2 announcement from Theranos soon?
        
       | pavlov wrote:
       | The post mentions that Magic Leap recently raised money at a
       | valuation of $2B.
       | 
       | Seems like a significant downround, considering they'd already
       | raised at least $2.4B in the past. I'd guess their pre-launch
       | valuation must have been closer to $10B.
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
       | > According to IDC, the AR/VR market is expected to grow to
       | nearly $140 billion by the end of 2024.
       | 
       | AR has nothing at all to do with VR.
       | 
       | But I guess if you're talking about a technology that even
       | science fiction writers can't show it doing anything other than
       | sexually suggestive ads, your target audience isn't chasing a
       | coherent narrative.
        
       | dabeeeenster wrote:
       | I never quite figured out these tweets:
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/benedictevans/status/656667346837200896?...
       | 
       | I've had the Magic Leap demo. It was worth going to Florida for.
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/benedictevans/status/842399282485460992?...
       | 
       | So, a while ago I said that seeing Magic Leap was the coolest
       | thing I'd seen since the iPhone.
       | 
       | It's now much cooler than that.
       | 
       | Any suggestions?
        
         | phonon wrote:
         | The demo he refers to was not (and could never be) an actual
         | commercial product. It was stationary and the optics were 100x
         | what could fit on a mobile device. What they eventually shipped
         | had very little to do with the tech used in the private demo.
         | 
         | Turns out optical physics is not like software...
        
           | shmatt wrote:
           | Which makes another tweet of his even weirder. Someone
           | questioned the plausibility of making that demo mobile
           | 
           | >it's perfectly clear. Just not public.
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/benedictevans/status/656667935205797888
           | 
           | The only difference between 2015 ML and Theranos is that
           | faking tech in healthcare is just a lot more illegal.
           | 
           | If they promised investors there was a definite plan the demo
           | becomes a real product, and knew thats a lie, could they sue?
        
         | notabanker wrote:
         | I could be wrong on the timeline, but wasn't Ben Evans at that
         | time a partner at Andreesen Horowitz. Partners are expected to
         | be cheerleaders of their investments. After all difficult
         | technologies become manifest by cheerleading them until one of
         | them catches on.
        
           | dabeeeenster wrote:
           | He was, yes
        
       | simias wrote:
       | I didn't know Magic Leap was still a thing, I'm somewhat
       | impressed. I definitely understand the negativity in the comments
       | but at the same time with their experience with the v1 maybe
       | they'll manage to deliver something useful this time?
       | 
       | Some skepticism is definitely warranted, but I'm looking forward
       | to actual demonstrations of this hardware. Assuming of course
       | that this time they'll actually share proper demo footage instead
       | of obviously bullshit marketing videos.
        
       | leetrout wrote:
       | If you have not experienced the magic leap videos do not do it
       | justice.
       | 
       | Heres my video flying inside my house:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/Grlk03MdScQ
       | 
       | The jaw dropping aspects:
       | 
       | - it correctly knows when to mask for the column
       | 
       | - it does lighting effects from the planes headlights
       | 
       | - it does particle collisions with my furniture when it crashes
       | 
       | - it crashes by detecting i hit the wall
       | 
       | It really is amazing tech but it is very unpolished. But I am
       | very hopeful they keep pushing and it gets cheaper and more
       | people can experience it and develop for it.
       | 
       | This is like the amiga. We are at the infancy of AR.
        
         | taneq wrote:
         | TBH that's better than I expected. I'd call the column masking
         | "barely adequate" rather than "correctly" but it's at least
         | making an attempt to reconstruct the scene and do additive
         | composition in realtime.
         | 
         | Wasn't the real breakthrough meant to be to do with variable
         | focus lightfield voodoo meaning that the rendered components
         | looked like they 'fitted in' with the scene and could occlude
         | as well as be occluded, rather than being additive CGI floating
         | in front of it?
        
         | sydthrowaway wrote:
         | Are you serious? This looks like an undergraduate project
         | hacked up with OpenCV.. I'd still give it an A though.
        
           | leetrout wrote:
           | As I said, video does not do it justice. If you walk around
           | while flying everything stays very well locked in place.
           | 
           | It probably _is_ using OpenCV under the hood.
        
             | fossuser wrote:
             | I normally don't like to pile on with negativity, but I'd
             | argue the video does do it justice. I played with one
             | myself (the only one I ever saw in the wild and she only
             | had one because her SO was one of the original investors)
             | and it was similar to what the video shows. My first
             | experience with VR was impressive, Magic Leap was a
             | disappointment.
             | 
             | The background is dark, the occlusions are bad, the
             | hardware is large, and the FOV is poor.
             | 
             | Magic Leap really burned a lot of good will imo by sucking
             | up enormous amounts of AR funding having 'demo' marketing
             | that was at best intentionally misleading if not just
             | fraudulent.
             | 
             | I'm still bullish on AR being the next platform when the
             | hardware is ready, but I'd bet on Apple or Oculus pulling
             | that off, I wouldn't go near anything from Magic Leap.
             | 
             | This about sums it up:
             | https://twitter.com/fernandojsg/status/1017411969169555457
             | 
             | It's a little reminiscent of General Magic - something like
             | the AR they want is likely to exist in the future, but I'd
             | surprised if it's from them.
             | 
             | Can you imagine Steve Jobs shipping something at the
             | quality level of that video?
        
           | snek_case wrote:
           | Yeah. I'm kind of left feeling like I'd rather fly the plane
           | in a better looking simulated environment, with a first-
           | person perspective. It's more flexible and fun than being
           | tied to flying it in the environment around you.
           | 
           | I still haven't seen a compelling use case for AR.
        
             | tjs8rj wrote:
             | Coolest one I've seen is VR workspaces. Buying a $5k setup
             | per head where they can work from space or the Grand Canyon
             | with unlimited monitors, sit/stand/lay down, software
             | upgrades (only a few pieces of hardware to replace),
             | virtual meetings, building and modeling anything they want,
             | etc
             | 
             | It's still kinda clunky now, but the tech will get better.
             | That's a money saver (and a big improvement) with the main
             | barriers being tech and familiarity, and those just come
             | with time. Very bullish on that
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | I dunno, I still can't quite see the potential of that.
               | And even if they _did_ get it working perfectly, then
               | they 're following in the footsteps of _other_ people who
               | 've already done this on headsets that are a fraction of
               | the price (like Immersed or Virtual Desktop).
               | 
               | Even if they do manage to create mind-blowing hardware,
               | they aren't exactly cornering a market here.
        
               | snek_case wrote:
               | AR seems to me like one of those technologies that people
               | keep claiming is definitely going to be "the future" even
               | though the use cases are dubious.
        
               | Tarragon wrote:
               | There are hardware limits that will make this less
               | compelling than you imagine. I'll give 3 reasons.
               | 
               | Note: Magic Leap specs are from a quick google search and
               | may be out of date. Even improved they'll have the same
               | issues to a slightly lesser degree.
               | 
               | First - field of view: The horizontal field of Magic Leap
               | is 40 degrees. My primary monitor, a 16x9 32" monitor at
               | about 3 feet from my eyes, is 42 degrees. So this can't
               | even show me 100% of that, and definitely can't show me a
               | second monitor in my peripheral vision.
               | 
               | Field of view is hard to improve as the optics are really
               | close to your eyes and being head worn have limits of
               | size and weight.
               | 
               | Second - Resolution: The magic leap resolution is
               | apparently 1280x960, significantly less than 1080p.
               | That's not even close to the 4K monitor I'm typing this
               | on. That low resolution has to cover the entire area of
               | my monitor. More if I want to stretch the field of wider.
               | 
               | Picture yourself programming on a 1280x960 32" monitor.
               | Just to see I set my system that way for a minute. PIXELS
               | EVERYWHERE! Also, now I need to reset all my carefully
               | curated windows.
               | 
               | It's hard to improve resolution. The displays are very
               | small to keep size and weight down. HMD displays are
               | generally about the highest of DPI that can be built.
               | 
               | Third - Brightness: You can't draw black on a see-through
               | HMD, all you can do is make the existing world brighter.
               | The lenses are too close to the eye to be able to do any
               | kind of masking or blocking of the ambient light.
               | 
               | So your display system won't be able to show much of an
               | image over bright area; the text is either white over
               | world color or background colored in a white field. It's
               | not good for reading text and almost illegible at typical
               | sizes in office lighting.
               | 
               | You can't improve brightness easily. These tiny displays
               | make a lot of heat right near your head. Making them
               | brighter means bigger heatsinks, taking weight and size,
               | and more power with requires bigger batteries or shorter
               | run time.
               | 
               | You can kinda cheat one a little with dark sunglass
               | lenses to make the whole world darker. Or you can go to
               | VR and just block the whole world and draw your interface
               | over a video stream. The second option isn't really
               | compelling because it for AR demos like Magic Leap shows.
        
             | fossuser wrote:
             | The use case is a virtual meta-layer for the real world
             | where you can interact with stuff without needing to look
             | at a small glass handheld display.
             | 
             | Things like, pulling up addresses of buildings you look at,
             | names of people you've met, line on ground for gps, playing
             | board games with people without needing a board or dealing
             | with the rule book (software assisted), see meta
             | information floating around devices (battery level, year,
             | serial number), etc. etc.
             | 
             | The UX of phones is pretty good but it suffers from its
             | form factor. If you could have a UX for the world you can
             | really enable a lot more human abilities in a really
             | intuitive way and you can get closer to something that
             | feels like telepathy.
        
         | lostgame wrote:
         | >> This is like the amiga.
         | 
         | Problem is it was marketed like a supercomputer and what we got
         | was an Amiga.
         | 
         | Which is fine for the hobbyist nerds who can see the potential.
         | Not so good for literally anyone else.
        
           | leetrout wrote:
           | I do not disagree.
           | 
           | They are kinda doing the Tesla approach now (or as of 2019)
           | where they are trying to sell a higher end experience.
           | 
           | Their medical demos / apps were really awesome.
           | 
           | You could place a virtual cadaver on the physical table.
           | 
           | When they work out view sharing that is gonna be amazing for
           | collaboration.
           | 
           | They have a dream of "5G cities" where everyone walks around
           | with these things fully connected.
           | 
           | I think that is the wrong direction. Will be curious to see
           | what comes of it.
        
             | Animats wrote:
             | _They have a dream of "5G cities" where everyone walks
             | around with these things fully connected._
             | 
             | That's a nightmare. See "Hyperreality"[1], if you haven't.
             | That may be the future of AR. Especially if Facebook is
             | involved.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs
        
         | acchow wrote:
         | "it correctly knows when to mask for the column"
         | 
         | correctly? https://imgur.com/h3zHxDW
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | leetrout wrote:
           | It doesnt look as bad in stereo when you're distracted by the
           | motion.
           | 
           | Such an unusual experience for it to go behind something.
        
         | Aunche wrote:
         | Is this much different from the Hololens?
        
           | leetrout wrote:
           | The magic leap os is some funky linux / android thing so I
           | think it loses out to Hololens right there.
           | 
           | The ML seems to scan rooms better and "lock" things in space
           | better but the HL seemed to have a better resolution (_not_
           | field of view) when using "normal" apps.
           | 
           | They are both competing on field of view now with the next
           | generation of devices but the ML beats the first gen HL hands
           | down on the larger FOV.
        
           | croes wrote:
           | Hololens 1 and Magic Leap don't have much of a difference.
           | The Magic Leap has a greater FOV
        
             | busterarm wrote:
             | And yet ML had to raise almost $5B to get to around
             | ballpark with the Hololens which I assure you Microsoft
             | invested substantially less money into and already has tens
             | of billions in government contracts committed to use the
             | thing.
        
               | leetrout wrote:
               | What they could do, if they figure out the right play,
               | with the right hardware, is make this a really compelling
               | active entertainment device. You already saw haw popular
               | Pokemon Go was... I think locking eyeballs to locations
               | has VC's interested.
        
               | tsimionescu wrote:
               | Yes, but Pokemon Go was popular because it was on a phone
               | you already had, because it was an extremely popular
               | franchise, and because of the good luck of being a fad at
               | the right time.
               | 
               | Nothing else took its place, and, while still being
               | popular, it quickly faded from the status of global
               | phenomenon.
               | 
               | It's a nice money making game, but not a hardware seller.
        
               | tdeck wrote:
               | Most people I knew who played Pokemon Go quickly turned
               | off the AR feature anyway.
        
         | shmatt wrote:
         | I have to say, I've been reading these comments who love or
         | hate ML, treating them as just another internet argument
         | 
         | As someone who was following the public hype but never actually
         | saw what they released. This is absolutely completely terrible.
         | The promises they made when they raised half a billion dollars
         | 7 years ago as a stealth company backed by tech geniuses.
         | 
         | If this is what they have today, what were they showing
         | investors 7 years ago? and why did investors think _this_ is
         | going to revolutionize the world?
        
           | systemvoltage wrote:
           | I saw it during an interview at Ft Lauderdale. I was
           | interviewing for the optics metrology engineer position. It
           | was as mind blowing as the op is stating. Absolutely
           | stunning. This was 5 years ago. Signed a bunch of NDA papers
           | so shouldn't talk too much about it.
        
             | defen wrote:
             | Have you considered that the demo may have been faked (for
             | example maybe they preprogrammed it with room geometry that
             | was acquired some other way)?
        
               | lostgame wrote:
               | From what I understand - the demo was using a completely
               | different set of technology from that which eventually
               | came out.
        
             | tsimionescu wrote:
             | Allow us who haven't experienced it to highly doubt this.
             | At the very best it looks like nifty tech that would be fun
             | to play around with for a couple of hours until the novelty
             | wears off, no more than that.
        
           | dntrkv wrote:
           | Just reserve judgement until you experience it yourself. You
           | can't reproduce the experience on a 2D screen. That's the
           | whole point.
        
             | tsimionescu wrote:
             | "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain". If all
             | you can show is 20 year old looking graphics that only
             | somewhat match the scene they are in (while moving at a
             | glacial pace), I am going to bet that the "experience" is
             | way over hyped as well.
        
         | bogwog wrote:
         | That looks pretty awesome! If this is what they could do with
         | the version 1, then v2 might turn out to be really impressive.
        
       | throwaway123x2 wrote:
       | I want a good consumer AR headset. VR gives me a headache and I
       | really think AR will be more fun / integrated with our lives.
       | 
       | It's sad that MSFT made the HoloLens enterprise only, otherwise
       | I'd be next in line for that.
        
         | lostgame wrote:
         | I wish the Oculus Quest 2 had higher quality cameras. Some of
         | my favourite times in that experience are when I have to see
         | the world through my googles.
        
       | dmitriid wrote:
       | Narrator: "It was the same subpar meh product they pretended to
       | have already released after years of fleecing investors with
       | pretty CGI"
        
       | throw_m239339 wrote:
       | I think HN is pretty set on the fact that Magic Leap is
       | vaporware, isn't it? do they even have a product?
        
         | pvm3 wrote:
         | they probably have a large patent portfolio
        
         | moron4hire wrote:
         | They do have a product. It didn't live up to Abovitz' hype, but
         | that's also why he's not CEO anymore.
         | 
         | The ML1 sits somewhere in the vicinity of the Hololens 1 in
         | capability. Some things it does better, some things it does
         | worse.
         | 
         | For example, having a real controller was very useful as the
         | input latency on the Hololens' hand tracking is a big
         | impediment and not having a variety of physical buttons makes
         | designing games with lots of different types of interactions
         | really hard. I think Waltz of the Wizard on the Quest 2 is the
         | only game I've seen with hand tracked input that isn't just
         | "point and click".
         | 
         | Wider field of view than the Hololens was nice, but it came at
         | the price of lower pixel density.
         | 
         | Being based on Android was a drawback for me, though. Hololens
         | has a workspace metaphor, akin to a 3D desktop, that Magic Leap
         | never really put much effort into. Hololens also has speech
         | recognition as a first-class citizen, whereas Magic Leap left
         | it up to developers to roll their own. It's really, really hard
         | to get good performance out of Android, too.
         | 
         | A bunch of the other stuff was just too wonky to consider. The
         | surface meshing was unusable in real life scenarios. The hand
         | tracking as well. A lot of people don't realize that the
         | Hololens could do full, positional hand tracking, it just
         | wasn't a great experience, so everyone designed around nose-
         | pointers and just using the hand as a clicker. The hand
         | tracking on Magic Leap was even worse, yet they went with
         | trying to showcase it.
         | 
         | I think, if Microsoft were to release a controller to get over
         | the latency issues of hand tracking on the Hololens, it'd be
         | strictly better all around.
         | 
         | I'm rather bearish on AR devices making a big splash in the
         | consumer market, especially ones using waveguide displays.
         | Waveguides are a technological dead end. There isn't really any
         | room for them to grow by even 2x, when they really need to grow
         | by at least 20x. Good AR application design is also
         | excruciatingly hard. What you typically end up with is a VR app
         | made shitty by having to run on an AR headset. Oculus' approach
         | of starting with a VR headset and adding AR-passthrough makes a
         | lot more sense.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | Surely the NDAs that were signed when they were previewing the
         | tech to journalists have expired. I'd love to know what it was
         | they were seeing that resulted in so many articles announcing
         | something great was coming.
         | 
         | For me, only the Segway (Ginger) was a bigger disappointment.
        
           | specialist wrote:
           | The tragedy is they anticipated micromobility. Which will
           | (may) be huge. They were just ~20 years too soon.
           | 
           | These "right idea, wrong time" fails confuse me. I just don't
           | know what to make of it.
        
         | the-dude wrote:
         | https://www.magicleap.com/en-us/magic-leap-1
        
         | baybal2 wrote:
         | I think they are Tiranos 2.0.
        
           | dewey wrote:
           | Theranos?
        
             | baybal2 wrote:
             | Yes, Theranos. Companies with weird, catchy names should
             | probably be red flagged by default.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | gadders wrote:
         | This guy had a pretty good series of posts on Magic Leap.
         | They're not positive https://kguttag.com/?s=magic+leap
         | 
         | EG "This blog has been reporting why from a technical
         | perspective on the massive problems with Magic Leap since
         | November 2016. At that point, Magic Leap had "only" raised
         | about $1.4B. They were able to raise another $1.2+ billion
         | since this blog started reporting on their hype. Magic Leap's
         | total VC raise of over $2.6B dwarfs the measly $700m raised by
         | the infamous Theranos."
         | 
         | https://kguttag.com/2020/05/03/magic-leap-starts-to-auger-in...
        
       | the-dude wrote:
       | If the projected delivery window is the entirety of 2022, it can
       | easily slip into 2023 just as well.
       | 
       | TL;DR : Magic Leap 2 will be released somewhere before 2025.
        
         | simonh wrote:
         | s/will/may
        
       | kevinwang wrote:
       | Wow, I completely missed that magic leap 1 actually came out
        
       | thathndude wrote:
       | Here we go again . . .
       | 
       | But in all seriousness, even if they could ship something
       | meaningful, one wonders if the brand is tarnished such that it
       | makes sense to re-launch with fresh branding.
       | 
       | "Magic Leap" does not conjure up positive images in my mind. Why
       | swim against the current unnecessarily?
        
         | mbreese wrote:
         | Most people don't know the name Magic Leap. HN is a
         | (relatively) small bubble. The only place where the name might
         | have a bad effect would be in hiring or raising money. But,
         | really changing the name would be worse in that regard as it
         | would signal that they (Magic Leap) also thought the name was
         | tarnished.
        
           | DonHopkins wrote:
           | The point is that the name Magic Leap IS extremely and deeply
           | tarnished, in so many ways, and Magic Leap pretending it's
           | not just makes them look more laughably delusional than they
           | already are (which is extremely), just like Trump still
           | believing that he won the election.
           | 
           | I just posted citations and quotes about just the most
           | obvious three ways Magic Leap tarnished their own reputation
           | from the start:
           | 
           | 1) the sex discrimination lawsuit and nepotistic sexist bro
           | culture,
           | 
           | 2) blatantly ripping off other people's ideas without credit
           | in the patent applications,
           | 
           | 3) the ridiculous TEDX talk and fraudulent claims on the fake
           | video "demos".
           | 
           | But that's just the tip of the iceberg, not even touching on
           | the flaws and shortcomings and fraudulent claims about the
           | hardware and software itself. Magic Leap's terrible
           | reputation has been well covered in many tech and mainstream
           | publications, and is known quite widely both inside and
           | outside of HN.
           | 
           | Here's a starting point if you really don't already know
           | about Magic Leap's well established terrible reputation:
           | 
           | Dented Reality: Magic Leap Sees Slow Sales, Steep Losses:
           | 
           | https://www.theinformation.com/articles/dented-reality-
           | magic...
           | 
           | >Magic Leap had high hopes for sales of its augmented reality
           | headset. Instead, the richly valued startup has seen slow
           | sales of the device, recent layoffs and executive turnover.
           | In the coming years, competition in AR will likely intensify
           | as bigger tech companies enter the market.
           | 
           | HN discussion of that article:
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21725347
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | Are you referring to the sex discrimination lawsuit and
         | nepotistic sexist bro culture that tarnished Magic Leap's
         | reputation?
         | 
         | Magic Leap Settling Sex Discrimination Lawsuit with Former
         | Employee (vrandfun.com):
         | 
         | https://www.vrandfun.com/magic-leap-settling-sex-discriminat...
         | 
         | HN discussion:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14310144
         | 
         | More:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18209363
         | 
         | The whole point of the lawsuit was all about how Magic Leap's
         | company culture and product plans and demos and self image all
         | revolved around adolescent male egos and sexist fantasies, and
         | excluded women.
         | 
         | Tannen Cambell, who filed the lawsuit, was actually hired for
         | the express purpose of solving Magic Leap's recognized
         | "pink/blue problem", but was rebuffed and ignored. They knew
         | they had a problem, and even gave it a name, but they refused
         | to solve it.
         | 
         | Read the lawsuit:
         | 
         | https://regmedia.co.uk/2017/02/14/magic-leap-sex-discriminat...
         | 
         | >Campbell, one of whose responsibilities was to help Magic Leap
         | with the "pink/blue problem," had to endure hostile environment
         | sex discrimination while proposing ways, not only to make Magic
         | Leap's product more woman friendly, but also to make the
         | workplace more diverse and inclusive. Campbell was terminated
         | after (and because) she, like the child in "The Emperor's New
         | Clothes" who blurted out that the Emperor was naked, challenged
         | Magic Leap's CEO, Rony Abovitz, to acknowledge the depths of
         | misogyny in Magic Leap's culture and take steps to correct an
         | gender imbalance that negatively affects the company's core
         | culture and renders it so dysfunctional it continues to delay
         | the launch of a product that attracted billions of investment
         | dollars. Campbell also raised concerns that what Magic Leap
         | showed the public in marketing material was not what the
         | product actually could do--admonitions ignored in favor of her
         | male colleagues' assertions that the images and videos
         | presented on Magic Leap's website and on YouTube were
         | "aspirational," and not Magic Leap's version of "alternate
         | facts."
         | 
         | Did all of that suddenly change after the lawsuit was settled?
         | 
         | Because if it did suddenly tangibly change, then that might be
         | evidence that settling a sex discrimination lawsuit by changing
         | their behavior was a positive signal.
         | 
         | But if they only forked over a big pile of hush money, signed
         | non-disparagement agreements and gag orders, and went their
         | separate ways, and Magic Leap didn't actually change their
         | culture, then I don't think you could consider it positive sign
         | or a constructive settlement for anyone other than the woman
         | who was paid to keep her mouth shut.
         | 
         | Quotes from the lawsuit:
         | 
         | >Campbell met September 28, 2016 with Magic Leap CFO Henry and
         | Head of Operations Tina Tuli for a conference call with the CFO
         | and leadership team at R/GA, an award-winning international
         | advertising agency that was Magic Leap's advertising agency of
         | record. During the call, Henry said of the product under
         | development, "I'm sitting here between two beautiful ladies.
         | They're not going to want to put a big ugly device over their
         | pretty faces. And I have an office with glass doors, I don't
         | want people to see me with these beautiful girls with ugly
         | things on their faces." Later, one of the male R/GA executives
         | on the call asked Campbell if Henry frequently made sexist
         | comments like he had made. A female executive at R/GA also was
         | offended by Henry's remarks.
         | 
         | >As an example of more egregious comments, Campbell told
         | Abovitz of the "Three Os" incident and Vlietstra's lack of any
         | meaningful discipline in response. As an example of unconscious
         | bias, she told him of an IT employee who was helping Campbell a
         | new logo into the email system. Cognizant that she was taking
         | up a lot of the employee's time with minor changes to get the
         | logo "perfect," Campbell apologized for taking up so much of
         | the employee's time, to which he responded, "Oh, don't worry, I
         | get it. You're a woman and you care that things look pretty.
         | I'm a man. I just get the work done."
         | 
         | >Euen Thompson, an IT Support Lead, on November 16, 2016, gave
         | a tutorial to a group of seven new hires, including two women,
         | how to use Magic Leap's IT equipment and resources. One woman
         | asked Thompson a question in front of the group and Thompson
         | responded, "Yeah, women always have trouble with computers."
         | The women in the group, in apparent disbelief, asked Thompson
         | to repeat what he said and Thompson replied, "In IT we have a
         | saying; stay away from the Three Os: Orientals, Old People and
         | Ovaries."
         | 
         | >During Campbell's last four months at Magic Leap, Abovitz--who
         | always had been pouty and prone to temper-tantrums, began to
         | dig his heels in even more in the face of dissenting ideas and
         | to explode ever more frequently into child-like fits of rage,
         | threatening retribution when he didn't get his way, felt
         | betrayed or was portrayed publically in an unfavorable light.
         | 
         | >[...] the "Wizards Wanted" section of its website. Indeed,
         | given that a "wizard" generally is defined as "a man who has
         | magical powers," and virtually without exception images of
         | wizards are male, Magic Leap's recruiting verbiage contains a
         | not-so-subtle "women-need-not-apply" message.
         | 
         | >Sadly, because Magic Leap seldom hires and does not actively
         | recruit female candidates, the company loses competitive
         | advantage to products like Microsoft's Hololens. Microsoft,
         | which employs far more females on its team, developed its
         | similar product on a faster time line with more content that
         | appeals to both genders.
         | 
         | >"Eric Akerman, vice president of IT, is a high school buddy of
         | Abovitz. He is a loud and outspoken and several misogynistic
         | comments have emanated from his department and from him."
         | 
         | >"Vice president of IT Akerman, on Nov. 8, 2016, told a large
         | group of people who asked why he voted for Trump that it was
         | 'because Melania is hot.'"
         | 
         | >Senior Engineer Eric Adams sent out an email December 4, 2015
         | through a company email list serv for social activities for
         | Magic Leap employees and their families, which email bore the
         | subject line, "Board (sic) Wives at home while you are loving
         | it at the Leap," which stated:
         | 
         | >Hello Leapers:
         | 
         | >My wife is starting a Google group outside of the Magic Leap
         | locked domain.
         | 
         | >It is called "Magic Leap spouses" and should be findable as
         | such.
         | 
         | https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/magic-leap-spouses
         | 
         | >It is sort of a social meeting place for all the spouses that
         | have been displaced, alone in the daytime and are new to the
         | area, would like to have lunch with or just to have someone
         | local to hang out with when their significant other is slaving
         | away at work thru-out the 12-Hr day. Or are they just nagging
         | you because you moved here?
         | 
         | >Please forward this Email to your wife if she would like to
         | get better acclimated to South Florida. The group is not public
         | and is reasonably private (by email invite/accept) as to not
         | accidentally disclose any Magic Leap secrets.
         | 
         | >The gender-neutral reference to "spouses" notwithstanding,
         | implicit in the subject line and the reference to "your wife"
         | is the assumption -- which is not too far from wrong -- that
         | all the employees were men with wives who didn't work outside
         | the home and were "alone in the daytime."
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | Or are you referring to the way Magic Leap picked up and ripped
         | off so many other people's original designs and IP in their
         | patent applications without giving the actual inventors credit,
         | that tarnished Magic Leap's reputation?
         | 
         | https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/30/7954611/magic-leap-augmen...
         | 
         | >Magic Leap's futuristic patent art was copied from other
         | artists' designs
         | 
         | >When Google-backed augmented reality company Magic Leap
         | quietly applied for a patent, it did so with dozens of pages of
         | futuristic (and slightly creepy) scenarios: a social media
         | charm bracelet, a gargoyle bursting out of a box in a store,
         | gamified cucumber chopping...
         | 
         | >Wait a second. That last one sounds familiar. Maybe that's
         | because it's a line drawing of a shot from "Sight," a Black
         | Mirror-esque short film about an augmented, sinister future. As
         | it turns out, Magic Leap's patent art isn't so much its vision
         | of the future as one created by various students and designers.
         | Former Verge-r and current Gizmodo writer Sean Hollister was
         | tipped off to a set of side-by-side comparisons that leave no
         | doubt we're looking at copies.
         | 
         | >If patents are about originality, does this mean Magic Leap is
         | hurting its claims? Not really. A great deal of patent art just
         | shows potential designs or uses for something, in order to make
         | the actual, more abstract claims clearer. In this case, Magic
         | Leap is patenting an optical system that has nothing to do with
         | the interfaces displayed here. Even bringing a copyright claim
         | would be hard and arguably pointless. "Images such as these are
         | setting consumer expectations of VR and AR today," the company
         | told Gizmodo. "We wanted to use the same images to demonstrate
         | what our technology will enable."
         | 
         | >The designers themselves seem ambivalent of their images'
         | rebirth as patent art. Magic Leap appears to have neither
         | contacted them nor credited them, but at the same time, it's
         | showing the world how this futuristic design fiction could
         | work. It's one thing to have someone rip off your art. It's
         | another to have them actually make it real -- if Magic Leap can
         | actually deliver on its ambitious promises.
         | 
         | https://gizmodo.com/magic-leap-ripped-off-those-awesome-ui-c...
         | 
         | >Magic Leap Ripped Off Those Awesome UI Concepts
         | 
         | >Magic Leap is secretly building a headset that could blend
         | computer graphics with the real world. Recently, we lucked into
         | a treasure trove of illustrations from Magic Leap about what
         | that future might hold. There's just one problem: Magic Leap
         | didn't actually create all those awesome UI concepts. It copied
         | them.
         | 
         | >The images speak for themselves. On the left of each of these
         | comparision shots, you'll see an illustration plucked directly
         | from this Magic Leap patent application. On the right, you'll
         | find a screengrab from an awesome UI concept invented by
         | someone else.
         | 
         | >Remember Sight, the incredible student film where a man with
         | bionic eyes plays Fruit Ninja with a real cucumber that becomes
         | part of his meal? Same cucumber. Same everything:
         | 
         | >Or how about the Ringo Holographic Interface dreamt up by
         | then-UI-design-student Ivan Tihienko in 2008?
         | 
         | >Here's a augmented reality concept from interaction designer
         | Joesph Juhnke called "The Future of Firefighting":
         | 
         | >And below, one from designer Michael Harboun and his team
         | called The Aeon Project. "What if you could travel to exotic,
         | far-away destinations while being stuck in traffic?"
         | 
         | >Lastly, two images from "Meditating Mediums - The Digital 3D,"
         | which was the graduating thesis for Greg Tran at the Harvard
         | Graduate School of Design. He now designs for Samsung.
         | 
         | >This might also look familiar: [...]
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | Or are you referring to the ridiculous 12/12/2012 TEDX "talk"
         | that Rony Abovitz performed at the Ringling College of Art, and
         | all the FAKE and DECEPTIVE videos they posted and lied about on
         | youtube, that tarnished Magic Leap's reputation?
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8J5BWL8oJY
         | 
         | In my mind, they're not as reputable after having given Rony
         | Abovitz a platform to perform that "fudge". Just watch the
         | video, if you can stomach it, all the way through. And read the
         | comments, like this one:
         | 
         | >Nick Steele 2 years ago (edited)
         | 
         | >This is a joke. Take it for what it is. They didn't want to
         | say anything so they basically said "are you ready? READY? ...
         | fuck you".
         | 
         | >After a completely ridiculous intro which includes nano
         | machines humping blood cells and two crack monkeys worshiping a
         | massive block of "demented space fudge" which takes up 75% of
         | the talk until 4:30, right after 30 seconds of literal silence,
         | a spaceman says "greetings" and introduces today's "keyword"
         | which is "fudge", then a guy plays terrible music out of tune
         | and sings half-way into the mic. Then the lights suddenly go
         | out and the crack moneys and space man simply walk away.
         | 
         | >Keep in mind the audience thinks they are about to hear a
         | billionaire explain his new "world changing" virtual/augmented
         | reality technology, then they get this shit.
         | 
         | >The best part is the audiences reaction at the end. :)
         | 
         | Dented Reality: Magic Leap Sees Slow Sales, Steep Losses
         | 
         | https://www.theinformation.com/articles/dented-reality-magic...
         | 
         | >Magic Leap had high hopes for sales of its augmented reality
         | headset. Instead, the richly valued startup has seen slow sales
         | of the device, recent layoffs and executive turnover. In the
         | coming years, competition in AR will likely intensify as bigger
         | tech companies enter the market.
         | 
         | >[...] Magic Leap was founded in 2010 by Rony Abovitz, an
         | eccentric, 47-year-old Florida native who once gave a TED talk
         | in a spacesuit surrounded by people dancing to music in furry
         | monster costumes. [...]
         | 
         | And if that's not enough proof that Magic Leap is a fraud, then
         | watch their completely fake demo, that they originally did not
         | truthfully bill as a "concept video" but instead they falsely
         | and deceptively titled it "Just another day in the office at
         | Magic Leap" and described it with the blatantly false claim
         | that "This is a game we're playing around the office right
         | now". But since then, the title and description have been
         | retroactively amended, AFTER they got busted.
         | 
         | Magic Leap | Original Concept Video (originally titled: "Just
         | another day in the office at Magic Leap" and described: "This
         | is a game we're playing around the office right now"):
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPMHcanq0xM
         | 
         | Magic Leap is actually way behind, like we always suspected it
         | was:
         | 
         | https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/8/13894000/magic-leap-ar-mi...
         | 
         | Remember that amazing video of the whale leaping out the gym
         | floor and splashing down? Yeah, it was BS. Magic Leap is
         | neither magic nor leaping:
         | 
         | https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/09/magic_leap_neither_...
         | 
         | Magic Leap video may have involved more magic than tech:
         | 
         | https://www.slashgear.com/magic-leap-video-may-have-involved...
         | 
         | The reality of Magic Leap: fake demo videos and delayed
         | technology:
         | 
         | http://www.techspot.com/news/67342-reality-magic-leap-fake-d...
         | 
         | Watch This New Virtual Reality Game Turn an Office Into a
         | Robot-Infested Fight for Survival:
         | 
         | http://time.com/3752343/magic-leap-video/
         | 
         | That last Time article above was written BEFORE they got
         | busted, and it cites a Magic Leap company spokesman (and I'm
         | pretty sure it was a man) mendaciously lying to the rightfully
         | skeptical (and eventually vindicated) Time reporter:
         | 
         | >It's unclear whether the video shows an actual game overlaid
         | onto a real-world office space or just an artistic rendering of
         | what the game might look like in the future. The way the gun
         | rests so realistically in the gamer's hand certainly raises
         | suspicions. Still, a company spokesperson confirmed to Gizmodo
         | that the video was authentic.
         | 
         | >"This is a game we're playing around the office right now,"
         | Magic Leap wrote on its official YouTube account.
         | 
         | The game that Magic Leap was playing (and still is) is called
         | FRAUD.
        
           | baybal2 wrote:
           | > The game they were playing (and still are) is called FRAUD.
           | 
           | I felt so from day one. People over invested into marketing
           | usually don't have to show much for the product.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | croes wrote:
           | It's on the same level as the Hololens 1. So fraud seems the
           | wrong word. Overhyped? Yes. Fraud? No.
        
             | DonHopkins wrote:
             | Claiming about a fake concept video that "This is a game
             | we're playing around the office right now," and confirming
             | to Gizmoid that the video claiming that was authentic, then
             | later retroactively editing the video title and description
             | to say it was a concept video only AFTER they got caught
             | and called out with lots of media coverage about the lie,
             | is literally and intentionally fraud, yes.
             | 
             | Microsoft has never made such unsubstantiated false claims
             | or published fraudulent demos about the Hololens. So no,
             | they're not anywhere near the same level of deceptive
             | business practices.
        
         | 7952 wrote:
         | For enterprise I am not sure this kind of name branding makes
         | sense anyway. Surely the user experience is going to depend
         | massively on the deployed app and whoever develops that. Better
         | for another company to slap their brand on it and sell it as
         | part of a wider solution. My guess is that consultancy and
         | services is where the money is rather than hardware. $10k per
         | user per year to solve a business problem can be easier to sell
         | than $2000 for a device.
        
       | captn3m0 wrote:
       | > Our recent round of funding (500M) and new valuation of roughly
       | $2 billion
       | 
       | Crunchbase says total money raised is $3B. Is it common for
       | companies to reach a negative valuation compared to money raised?
        
         | YetAnotherNick wrote:
         | It's default, not just common. Anyone investing in research
         | startup knows that there is slim chance that the company will
         | be positive in valuation, just that the upper limit for
         | valuation is very high.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
       | The very name is an oxymoron. Magic Leap 2? Because the first
       | leap wasn't magical or a leap enough.
        
         | krolley wrote:
         | Magic Leap too?
        
       | stanlarroque wrote:
       | I can't believe VCs put another 500M$ in this (even at the same
       | last valuation).
       | 
       | If only we could have that money for our Lynx[0] headset...
       | 
       | [0] https://lynx-r.com
        
         | drclau wrote:
         | You can't believe it, because you think there's a rational
         | process involved in investment decisions. After watching how
         | things go for some time, I came to believe that who you are and
         | what connections you have is far more important.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | It is a rational process. The mistake is in thinking that
           | anyone involved cares about technology or value delivered to
           | customers as anything but an afterthought.
        
       | 6nf wrote:
       | Raising more money are they?
        
       | OneTimePetes wrote:
       | ".. thus we pivoted to projecting directly into the eye, while
       | able to darken the background, away from purely additive drawing,
       | making ML2 useful for outdoor and light-strong environments."
       | 
       | Okay
        
       | idontwantthis wrote:
       | Does anyone here work with super expensive "enterprise" VR/AR? My
       | gut instinct is that they try to make something good, realize the
       | tech to fulfill their dream is incredibly expensive, then pivot
       | to "enterprise" to get more funding. Am I being cynical?
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | My last company tried really hard to pitch AR/VR projects.
         | Using headsets, phones even the Bose sunglasses. It was a huge
         | struggle to find anything compelling to do with AR even when it
         | worked. We ended up selling a few nifty marketing experiences
         | and artsy installations but they were like 30 second
         | experiences and not useful for anything. The tech "works", it's
         | just not very compelling.
         | 
         | Think about phone AR which works very smoothly and Apple/Google
         | have been investing in hardware upgrades to enhance AR
         | experiences yet it's been 5 years since Pokemon Go and no one
         | has figured out another interesting thing to do with it.
        
         | Matrixik wrote:
         | Here example of enterprise Varjo XR3 (full version cost 6000$
         | plus 1500$ subscription) from someone only testing consumer VR
         | headsets till now. In short: it's way better than best consumer
         | headsets.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOk_M1Ib5F0
        
           | idontwantthis wrote:
           | I know the tech is a lot better, but is it really being used
           | in enterprise?
        
       | tmcw wrote:
       | At least in earlier stages, Magic Leap's marketing and
       | communications were fun and accessible. This blog post is pure
       | corporate jargon - "engaged a number of strategic partners to
       | further bolster our support," "accelerated the organization's
       | pivot to enterprise, brought our industry-leading capabilities to
       | new customers," "our core business objectives remain focused on
       | enterprise solutions, there continues to be intense interest in
       | the application of Magic Leap's technology in the consumer space"
        
         | mritchie712 wrote:
         | Yes, this is definitely a "wtf do you actually mean" post. I
         | can usually glean these from the first paragraph and close the
         | tab.
        
         | listless wrote:
         | Whenever I read "pivot to enterprise" from a startup, I read
         | "we're out of ideas". In my own personal experience, startups
         | who pivot to the enterprise are dying stars and that statement
         | is a hallmark.
        
           | bathtub365 wrote:
           | It sounds more like a recognition that headset-based AR has
           | no future as a consumer product with current form factors.
        
             | listless wrote:
             | That's a much better phrasing.
        
       | Whitehead06 wrote:
       | Thanks for the information, I will try to figure it out for more.
       | Keep sharing such informative post.
       | 
       | https://www.mybalancenow.page/
        
       | rsynnott wrote:
       | ... Huh. I had no idea they still existed; I was expecting this
       | to be a historical artifact.
        
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