[HN Gopher] Cynthia Rudin wins the 2021 AAAI Squirrel AI Award
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       Cynthia Rudin wins the 2021 AAAI Squirrel AI Award
        
       Author : mcenedella
       Score  : 147 points
       Date   : 2021-10-12 10:07 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pratt.duke.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pratt.duke.edu)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ChemSpider wrote:
       | Is this a respected prize? I never heard of it before.
       | 
       | That said, no doubt that explainable ML/AI is important.
        
         | nothrowaways wrote:
         | Yeah, this is their second year i assume.
        
         | JustFinishedBSG wrote:
         | I mean, respected or not I would not say no to a free meal and
         | USD$1M.
        
         | ndr wrote:
         | Is $1 Million respectable?
        
           | wongarsu wrote:
           | Can money buy respectability?
           | 
           | If I awarded $1 Million to a random person every year,
           | receiving that award wouldn't make that person more
           | accomplished, and the award wouldn't be mentioned outside the
           | local newspaper. On the other hand an award that gives no
           | money but consistently awards the best researcher in the
           | field can be very noteworthy.
           | 
           | What the $1 million does accomplish is make people pay
           | attention, so everyone will much more quickly reach a verdict
           | whether this is a price worth paying attention to. But two
           | years is a bit quick for that verdict.
        
             | melony wrote:
             | Just tie it to a stochastic metric like random acts of
             | kindness and make a big overblown press release about it.
             | The Nobel peace prize speaks for itself on how useless
             | metrics empower the well connected in creating prestige.
        
             | Igelau wrote:
             | If you give me $1 million, I promise I'll respect you.
        
             | newsbinator wrote:
             | > Can money buy respectability?
             | 
             | Definitely!
        
               | adrian_mrd wrote:
               | Hello Golden Globes and the Hollywood Foreign Press
               | Association!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | dagw wrote:
         | _Is this a respected prize?_
         | 
         | It's a very new prize (this is only the second winner), so it's
         | still too early to tell. But is backed by a reasonably
         | respectable organization.
        
           | enriquto wrote:
           | > is backed by a reasonably respectable organization.
           | 
           | Respectability of the prize will arise mostly from the people
           | who receive the prizes, not from the organization itself.
           | Would you like to receive the same prize that got all these
           | other geniuses?
           | 
           | The Nobel is respectable because so many great scientists got
           | it. The composition of the Nobel committee is irrelevant, as
           | long as they keep giving the prize to the best.
        
       | nothrowaways wrote:
       | Congratulations! I think Interpretable AI mentioned in the
       | article is what is commonly called explainable AI.
        
         | qPM9l3XJrF wrote:
         | Cynthia has a great paper where she distinguishes between
         | "interpretable" and "explainable"
         | 
         | https://arxiv.org/pdf/1811.10154.pdf
        
           | nothrowaways wrote:
           | Oh thanks for the pointers
        
           | randcraw wrote:
           | "Explainable" just means you didn't build your app/service
           | using any technology that isn't interpretable. Her argument
           | is that the strategy of reverse engineering a method to
           | convert it from inexplicable to explicable is inherently less
           | effective than maintaining explicability at all times in the
           | app's genesis -- from the design phase through
           | implementation.
           | 
           | But Rudin's Premise is philosophical more than practical. If
           | the problem at hand is better solved using a black box (in
           | terms of accuracy, precision, robustness, etc), her premise
           | says simply, don't do it. Unfortunately in the cutthroat
           | world of capitalism, that strategy can't compete with the
           | cutting edge.
           | 
           | Where Rudin's Premise is more suitable is in writing
           | regulations to address AI app problems where social
           | unfairness is unchecked (like the COMPAS app that advises
           | legal authorities on meting out parole decisions without
           | explaining its reasoning). There are many such (ab)uses for
           | AI today in social services or policing which merit
           | rethinking since AI-based injustice so offer bedevils the
           | proprietary lack of transparency in such apps.
           | 
           | Another excellent discussion of problems like these is Cathy
           | O'Neil's book "Weapons of Math Destruction". Too bad she
           | couldn't share the Squirrel prize.
           | https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Math-Destruction-Increases-
           | In...
        
             | pjmorris wrote:
             | From the linked paper, linked again [0] below, I _think_
             | this represents Rudins philosophical view, and why it could
             | be practical:                 Here is the Rashomon set
             | argument: Consider that the data permit a large set of
             | reasonably accurate predictive models to exist. Because
             | this set of accurate models is large, it often contains at
             | least one model that is interpretable. This model is thus
             | both interpretable and accurate.             Unpacking this
             | argument slightly, for a given data set, we define the
             | Rashomon set as the set of reasonably accurate predictive
             | models (say within a given accuracy from the best model
             | accuracy of boosted decision trees). Because the data are
             | finite, the data could admit many close-to-optimal models
             | that predict differently from each other: a large Rashomon
             | set. I suspect this happens often in practice because
             | sometimes many different machine learning algorithms
             | perform similarly on the same dataset, despite having
             | different functional forms (e.g., random forests, neural
             | networks, support vector machines). As long as the Rashomon
             | set contains a large enough set of models with diverse
             | predictions, it probably contains functions that can be
             | approximated well by simpler functions, and so the Rashomon
             | set can also contain these simpler functions. Said another
             | way, uncertainty arising from the data leads to a Rashomon
             | set, a larger Rashomon set probably contains interpretable
             | models, thus interpretable accurate models often exist.
             | If this theory holds, we should expect to see interpretable
             | models exist across domains. These interpretable models may
             | be hard to find through optimization, but at least there is
             | a reason we might expect that such models
             | 
             | exist.
             | 
             | [0] https://arxiv.org/pdf/1811.10154.pdf
        
             | qPM9l3XJrF wrote:
             | >If the problem at hand is better solved using a black box
             | (in terms of accuracy, precision, robustness, etc)
             | 
             | It's been a while since I read her work, but IIRC one of
             | the positions she argues for, which I find plausible, is
             | that interpretable models can be performance competitive.
             | For example, it could be that the only reason black box
             | methods outperform is because they've been more heavily
             | researched, and if we were to put more research into
             | interpretable methods, we could achieve parity. I also
             | mentioned a few reasons why we might expect interpretable
             | models to perform better _a priori_ in this comment
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28838321
        
               | randcraw wrote:
               | I'd find Rudin's argument a lot more convincing if she
               | offered an existence proof, like using the same number of
               | examples to train an equally discriminative SVM or random
               | forest (or hybrid) that can equal the performance of
               | AlexNet in 2012 on the ImageNet ILSVRC (or in another
               | domain where DNNs are SOTA).
               | 
               | Until that can be done, I think few outside academia will
               | invest time or money in alternative non-DNN methods in
               | the hope of competing with today's even superior DNN
               | variants. There's a decade of evidence now that DNNs are
               | incontestable discriminators in numerous domains,
               | relative to pre-2012 ML technology anyway.
        
         | pjmorris wrote:
         | Explanatory quote from the linked paper (and thanks for the
         | link, qPM9l3XJrF!):
         | 
         | "Rather than trying to create models that are inherently
         | interpretable, there has been a recent explosion of work on
         | "Explainable ML," where a second (posthoc) model is created to
         | explain the first black box model. This is problematic.
         | Explanations are often not reliable, and can be misleading, as
         | we discuss below. If we instead use models that are inherently
         | interpretable, they provide their own explanations, which are
         | faithful to what the model actually computes"
        
       | Stephen6252 wrote:
       | Thanks for sharing, I am very impressed with your post.
       | https://www.mybalancenow.work/
        
       | thedrake wrote:
       | Several great insights from a person that truly cares about not
       | only the outcome of models but what is causing the outcome. Her
       | talks about parole guidelines being taken over by ai are great.
        
       | Bostonian wrote:
       | Interesting article, but I think this sentence was unfair to
       | other AI scholars, who also want AI to help society.
       | 
       | "While many scholars in the developing field of machine learning
       | were focused on improving algorithms, Rudin instead wanted to use
       | AI's power to help society."
        
         | qPM9l3XJrF wrote:
         | Most AI papers I see aren't directly focused on using AI to
         | help society. It's unclear how a small performance increase on
         | ImageNet helps society, for instance.
        
           | jhgb wrote:
           | I would imagine that it helps by saving computational
           | resources, making the results cheaper to obtain.
        
         | lallysingh wrote:
         | Many AI researchers do focus on algorithms, no?
        
           | JustFinishedBSG wrote:
           | Plenty focus on theory.
        
         | pjmorris wrote:
         | A Peter Norvig quote from yesterday's article about his
         | transition to Stanford...
         | 
         | "In the past, the interesting questions were around what
         | algorithm is best for doing this optimization. Now that we have
         | a great set of algorithms and tools, the more pressing
         | questions are human-centered: Exactly what do you want to
         | optimize? Whose interests are you serving? Are you being fair
         | to everyone? Is anyone being left out? Is the data you
         | collected inclusive, or is it biased?"
         | 
         | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28833933
        
           | jhgb wrote:
           | That makes the sentence quoted by GP sound like a category
           | error to me. Developing better algorithms and developing more
           | useful models to run on those algorithms are not an
           | "either/or" situation.
        
         | tremon wrote:
         | I think this is meant as a distinction between theoretical and
         | applied science, phrased to a low common denominator (which, as
         | a consequence, causes miscommunication due to not being
         | specific enough).
        
       | ur-whale wrote:
       | Any link to her actual work?
        
         | walnut_eater wrote:
         | Her most cited paper is https://arxiv.org/abs/1811.10154 and it
         | references a lot of her other work. It provides a good
         | representation of what she does and what she is well known for.
        
         | qPM9l3XJrF wrote:
         | Of the "representative publications" on her homepage here
         | https://ece.duke.edu/faculty/cynthia-rudin the one that seems
         | most relevant to the topic of the article is this paper on
         | interpretable financial lending:
         | https://arxiv.org/pdf/2106.02605.pdf
         | 
         | "The machine learning model is a two-layer additive risk model,
         | which resembles a two-layer neural network, but is decomposable
         | into subscales. In this model, each node in the first (hidden)
         | layer represents a meaningful subscale model, and all of the
         | nonlinearities are transparent. Our online visualization tool
         | allows exploration of this model, showing precisely how it came
         | to its conclusion. We provide three types of explanations that
         | are simpler than, but consistent with, the global model: case-
         | based reasoning explanations that use neighboring past cases, a
         | set of features that were the most important for the model's
         | prediction, and summary-explanations that provide a customized
         | sparse explanation for any particular lending decision made by
         | the model."
         | 
         | I was curious about the customized sparse explanation. It looks
         | like there is an illustrative example from later in the paper:
         | 
         | "For all 700 (7.1%) people where:
         | 
         | * ExternalRiskEstimate <= 63 , and
         | 
         | * NetFractionRevolvingBurden >= 73,
         | 
         | the global model predicts a high risk of default."
         | 
         | "A rule returned by OptConsistentRule is globally-consistent,
         | in the sense that there exists no previous case that satisfies
         | the conditions in the rule but is predicted differently, by the
         | global model, from what is stated in the rule. In contrast,
         | explanations (from other methods) that are not consistent may
         | hold for one customer but not for another, which could
         | eventually jeopardize trust (e.g., "That other person also
         | satisfied the rule but he wasn't denied a loan, like I was!")"
         | 
         | You can see the online visualization tool her team built here:
         | http://dukedatasciencefico.cs.duke.edu/models/
         | 
         | In retrospect, it's not all that surprising to me that a model
         | such as this is able to outperform a black box like a neural
         | network. For example, one of the things this model does which
         | black box models don't do is enforce "monotonicity constraints"
         | which ensure that as risk factors increase, the estimated risk
         | should also increase. It makes sense that this would be a
         | useful inductive bias which improves generalization performance
         | -- if a black box model found that an increase in risk factors
         | _decreased_ estimated risk, it seems likely that this would be
         | a result of overfitting (or multicollinearity gone haywire).
         | 
         | Of course another reason to expect simple/interpretable models
         | to generalize better is Occam's Razor.
         | 
         | My big question about this sort of approach would be whether
         | it's able to extend to the sort of unstructured data problems
         | that deep learning has done really well on. It looks like some
         | of her recent papers on Google Scholar address this:
         | https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=mezKJyoAAAAJ...
         | (specifically thinking of the BacHMMachine paper and the
         | Interpretable Mammographic Image Classification paper). Maybe
         | someone else can summarize them.
        
         | thendrill wrote:
         | Ahh... Works of those is quite private. Just like women in
         | tech. Usually behind closed doors, and not uploaded to
         | ofans....
        
       | gwf wrote:
       | I was also one of Cynthia's Ph.D. advisors when she was a
       | graduate student at Princeton, some twenty years ago. It was
       | obvious to me then that she would go on to do great things, so
       | it's delightful to read this news this morning.
       | 
       | My fondest memory of Cynthia, however, has nothing to do with
       | science, and everything to do with just being a kind person. We
       | were at the NEC Research Institute's company picnic where they
       | had an inflatable dragon for the kids to jump around within its
       | interior. Me, Cynthia, and my wife went inside without any kids
       | and jumped around like idiots for a while. Cynthia and my wife
       | got bored, so I stayed behind for One More Big Bounce. With the
       | epic bounce, I also succeeded in cracking a vertebra, nearly
       | passing out on the spot from the pain. Eventually, I would crawl
       | out, an ambulance was called, and I was brought to the Princeton
       | ER.
       | 
       | I would have a full recovery, but I was in the ER for several
       | hours that night. Cynthia came with us to the ER, and when she
       | saw how uncomfortable I was on the gurney, she went back to her
       | dorm to retrieve her favorite blanket, so that I would have even
       | a small comfort. I am not sure how long she stayed, but I know
       | that she was there with me longer than anyone else except my
       | wife.
       | 
       | Anyhow, she's a lovely human being and I am honored and proud to
       | have known her and witnessed the origins of her career.
        
         | typest wrote:
         | In my senior year at Duke, I took her ML class (her first
         | semester at Duke). She was an excellent professor, one of the
         | absolute best I had while there. She focused heavily on both
         | implementation and theory, which I found to be rare.
         | 
         | Her class became so popular within the add/drop period that
         | Duke added a second section and also doubled the attendance for
         | each section. I'm pretty sure she went from being supposed to
         | teach about 70 students to teaching 300. Nevertheless, her
         | teaching was top notch, and I learned more there than pretty
         | much any other CS class, and still rely on this knowledge
         | today!
         | 
         | I too am really glad she won this award.
        
         | adrian_mrd wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing. It's frequently the little acts of everyday
         | kindness that go a long way in this world, like the blanket
         | example you cite.
        
       | srean wrote:
       | Hearty congratulations. I am very happy for her.
       | 
       | I am more familiar with her older work on ranking and boosting. I
       | do not have any technical commentary to add, just a personal
       | anecdote that she is one of the nicest, warmest person that I
       | have met. I wish her well with utmost sincerity.
        
       | varispeed wrote:
       | I wish one day I'll read that Computer Scientist _earns_ $1
       | Million.
       | 
       | Most engineers here get like PS60k salary (PS3600 a month after
       | PAYE tax), while companies they work for make billions out of
       | their work. Not only that, but they also don't contribute back
       | into the local communities, because they use aggressive tax
       | avoidance strategies. Corporations need to start sharing their
       | profits with the workers and pay taxes otherwise it will
       | eventually spark another revolution.
        
         | typest wrote:
         | It is quite common for engineers with Cynthia Rudin's ability
         | to earn > 1 million. If you have that level of ML skill you can
         | lead teams at many companies for over that amount.
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | IMO, the salaries are (ballpark) fine for the effort and risk
         | involved, flexibility of working hours, stress levels, etc. I
         | don't see a good reason why engineers should make more than,
         | say, teachers or nurses, just because the company they work for
         | makes billions.
         | 
         | What's wrong is that these companies make billions, most of it
         | because they happened to get to the top of the food chain.
        
         | JustFinishedBSG wrote:
         | > I wish one day I'll read that Computer Scientist _earns_ $1
         | Million.
         | 
         | They do.
         | 
         | Not that I personally believe they deserve it. For the exact
         | same reasons I don't think a CEO is not "worth" thousands of
         | engineers, I don't think that just because you happened to
         | graduate in ML you are worth tens/hundred times more that the
         | others.
         | 
         | Or more accurately maybe they _are_ worth that much, but the
         | general population is severely underpaid.
        
         | randcraw wrote:
         | Reportedly, Ilya Sutskever was offered upward of $2
         | million/year to remain at Google as he departed for OpenAI. By
         | many accounts, he's not alone at earning over $1 million/year
         | as an independent contributor.
         | 
         | When Hinton, Krishevsky, and Sutskever sold DNNresearch
         | (incorporated only days before) to Google, their $44 million
         | crossed that line too, since the company had no products or IP
         | that was independent of UToronto, AFAIK. The three were
         | effectively "hired" as indep contributors.
        
         | twen_ty wrote:
         | I assume you're from the UK? Where? I ask because salaries in
         | London are definitely higher. A senior engineer should get 80k
         | and a principle engineer/architect should be on 90-120k.
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | What's with "Squirrel AI"? Did that seem slightly out of place?
        
         | paranoidroid wrote:
         | Squirrel AI is a Chinese online education company. It is the
         | first large scale AI-powered adaptive education provider in
         | China [...] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_AI Thousand
         | Talents Obfuscation Initiative?
        
           | paranoidroid wrote:
           | The benefit for humanity has award has only been a thing
           | since 2021, Mrs. Rudin received the 2022 version.
           | 
           | So lets say its been running for 2 years.
           | 
           | And the only other comparable scientific awards of such
           | monetary value are Turing and Nobel?
           | 
           | Wow very generous people.
           | 
           | 1. https://www.aaai.org/Awards/squirrel-ai-award.php
        
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