[HN Gopher] China's noisy 'dancing grannies' silenced by device ...
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China's noisy 'dancing grannies' silenced by device that disables
speakers
Author : nickt
Score : 116 points
Date : 2021-10-10 11:53 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| dogman144 wrote:
| Havana Syndrome cause discovered.
|
| Serious note, the tech sounds interesting and I'm surprised it's
| on the mainstream market now. I wonder if any side effects will
| be tied to if.
| turtlebits wrote:
| Happens in the community center lawn across the street from my
| house in the Seattle area. I can hear the music in my front yard
| but not inside my house.
|
| I do wish mainland Chinese were a little more mindful of others,
| especially in foreign countries.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| Where in the Seattle area does this happen? I'm guessing
| somewhere over on the east side?
| ilaksh wrote:
| I mean, community center seems like the place for it, and if
| you can't hear th music in your house then it seems like a
| reasonable volume?
| NDizzle wrote:
| The US sure could use groups of people exercising in parks. Think
| about the reduction in medical costs from the attack on type 2
| diabetes.
| bbarnett wrote:
| Yet the dancing grannies took over a soccer field, while a game
| was in play.
|
| And what of the lost sleep, the stress of their anti-social
| ways, on the rest of society. They sound like thugs.
| pessimizer wrote:
| The interruption of a single soccer game is probably more
| damage than the benefit of the social activity of 100 million
| members of a group that is usually isolated and lonely in
| other societies?
|
| This is hysterics. Maybe if they interrupted _every_ soccer
| game, there 'd be something to worry about (then to think
| about, then to again stop worrying about.)
| com2kid wrote:
| > Yet the dancing grannies took over a soccer field, while a
| game was in play.
|
| I'd be interested in knowing the full story. Was it some kids
| kicking a ball around, or was it an organized match scheduled
| ahead of time on the playing field?
|
| Where I used to live in Seattle, I knew that the grannies
| would come every week at a certain gym floor. Did they have a
| reservation? No, but I wasn't going to be an asshole and try
| to interrupt elderly women dancing and socializing.
|
| (One could however criticize LA Fitness[1] for putting the
| dance floors and boxing bags in the same room!)
|
| Now if they barged into a professional sports arena and tried
| to take over, hah, yeah, that's a problem! :)
|
| [1] I actually have a number of criticisms of the old DT
| Bellevue LA Fitness but since they aren't there anymore, it
| doesn't much matter.
| stefantalpalaru wrote:
| A much better description of this phenomenon:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-raCm2-rObI
| amelius wrote:
| Give them bluetooth headsets.
| smcl wrote:
| From the article:
|
| > Last year one group in Lanzhou city, Gansu, found a solution
| that make everyone happy by using bluetooth earphones, holding
| their own version of a silent disco.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| It sounds like some of them at least are being loud just to
| make a point in and of itself, if the article is accurate
| dirtyid wrote:
| I actually wonder if Bluetooth 5.2 with mass broadcasting
| features could be a solution. Some 5.2 hearing aids with voice
| pass through options to keep back ground music down, half the
| reason the music is so loud is they're old and going deaf
| anyway. With current tech, bunch of grandmas still need to sync
| up ipods like a flash mob which isn't going to happen.
| ecshafer wrote:
| This sounds like a bad device. The fact that people will use the
| squares and parks for large activities like this is a really good
| part of Chinese culture. You bring together community, you get
| exercise, etc. That's a great thing. US really underutilizes
| public spaces and many things become a financial transaction.
| This is just one of the many reasons why Chinese cities are
| almost universally better than American cities (more walkable,
| better transit, easy navigation, more public spaces. Though they
| do love their super blocks).
| temp8964 wrote:
| It is so impressive that you can pull something totally
| negative to a positive direction. Do you work for a PR team? Or
| a propaganda department?
|
| Chinese cities have much much less park spaces compared to the
| US. This is one reason for this to happen.
|
| Another reason is the Red Guard generation does not care about
| the concept that you should not annoy other people in a civil
| society.
|
| Another reason is that religion is severely suppressed by the
| CCP, so those retired people have nothing to do and no
| community at home.
| smorgusofborg wrote:
| > Chinese cities have much much less park spaces compared to
| the US. This is one reason for this to happen.
|
| Yes, but isn't the soccer style sport the anti-social
| behavior as far as space usage is concerned? A future
| generation of retired soccer players not limited by the one-
| child policy wouldn't need any other groups to fight with
| over land use.
| thieving_magpie wrote:
| >US really underutilizes public spaces and many things become a
| financial transaction
|
| I cannot understand the underutilization of public spaces.
| That's very far from my experiences but it may just be
| regional.
|
| I have no idea what you mean about "many things become a
| financial transaction".
| ecshafer wrote:
| A huge amount of things in the US seem to be go somewhere and
| pay money to use the space. Whether its taking a class
| somewhere, a gym, going to a mall/store. Even then outside a
| few major cities, most places you need to drive to public
| places.
| collegeburner wrote:
| Well you cant rely on public space being available unless
| you permit it which is a hassle. So not a great option for
| a regular thing. These dancing grannies can only do it bc
| they bully people into leaving.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| I feel like part of this is the ability to exclude others;
| ironically exclusion (or exclusivity) seems to be an
| important part of the American identity. I had hosted a
| birthday party at a public park at one point, and one of
| the parents had asked me if I was worried about other
| people being there.
| NoGravitas wrote:
| In the US, we have a problem of "drained pool"
| politics[1], where white people will vote to take away
| public amenities (like the eponymous public swimming
| pools) from themselves, because they can no longer
| exclude Black people from them.
|
| [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/16/opinion/ezra-
| klein-podcas...
| vel0city wrote:
| I mean, some of the US is like that. Other parts of the US,
| like where I live, have some pretty good public spaces
| available. I've got a park down the street with soccer
| fields, baseball and softball fields, a half court
| basketball setup, a fishing pond, picnic tables at the edge
| of some woods with grills, multiple playgrounds focusing on
| different kids ages/sizes/abilities. I can hop on a bus
| near my home and go to the larger sports complex with
| fancier fields and more organized teams, or the recreation
| centers with gymnasiums, board games to check out, tennis
| courts, waterparks, hobby meetings, etc. I see people using
| these facilities a good bit, there's usually people walking
| the trails around the parks, children playing on the
| playgrounds, people hanging out around the picnic tables,
| the pool and waterpark facilities get crowded at times. And
| then I can hop on the train and take it downtown to all the
| parks and other resources available there. And I live in a
| suburb!
|
| Lots of people in the US who feel there are no public city
| services often just don't realize the services their city
| already provides or are unaware of how to use them. Even in
| my city which has absolutely wonderful city services, I
| often find friends and neighbors completely unaware of the
| things which exist. We have busses running all over my town
| but I imagine if you asked any random person if they knew
| any local bus route they would have no idea where to even
| begin.
| mindtricks wrote:
| We lack public dancing space, yes, but the US typically has a
| lot of space open for exercise, although not in the same
| manner. In almost every town and city you'll find basketball
| courts, baseball fields, high school football stadiums with
| tracks typically open (and available) around them. It's
| organized in a different way and promotes different types of
| social interactions, but that's more a result of underlying
| desire for sprawl...which is something China can't afford.
| fxtentacle wrote:
| Unless, of course, you would like to sleep after 6 AM. Some of
| those grannies will compensate for their own hearing loss by
| making the music more noisy. When I was living in Vietnam and
| opened the window of my flat, I could sometimes here them from
| a park that was 3 side roads away. It must be genuinely painful
| for those that live above the park.
| jiminymcmoogley wrote:
| seems like some of these dancing grannies would do right to
| invest in a few pairs of wireless headphones.. maybe theres
| an initial embarassment hurdle to overcome but ive been to a
| "silent disco"-type event before and that quickly passes
| jjoonathan wrote:
| I heard a youtuber complaining about 11:30pm night owl
| grannies, so there's no escape.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| The problem are the apartments around those squares, or even
| just near them. Noise pollution is a touchy subject in dense
| urban China, and sound carries very easily.
| gaoshan wrote:
| In theory you are right but the reality of these dancing
| grannies is that they can be loud as hell. Like, disturbingly
| loud over a huge area and the noise pollution they introduce
| can be bad even by China's fairly noisy urban environments.
| Public spaces get tons of use without them, anyway. Also,
| sometimes they are fine and completely benign. It's the ones
| that become a local "thing" and draw huge crowds as well as
| that have no consideration for the surrounding residences that
| are a problem. I love the sounds of daily life in China (even
| the occasional new business opening fireworks extravaganza at
| 7am, lol) but the noisiest of these dancing granny groups are
| really a bit much.
| dartharva wrote:
| From the article:
|
| >But neighbours complain it has gotten out of control, with
| competing groups blasting their music over each other in small
| areas, and bullying those who try to intervene. Viral videos
| and reports have shown the groups arguing and fighting with
| basketball players to take over their court, or, in one case,
| breaking into a football field and stopping the game to dance
| in the space, prompting a police response and arrests.
|
| >Some disputes have escalated to violence.
|
| >"Most of them are the products of the Red Guard era, they
| don't respect society or the environment," said a young Chinese
| resident of Guiyang, who did not want to be named.
|
| >"Square dancing is a problem left over from history. Many
| elderly people feel that the whole China is built by their
| generation. They have the absolute voice and status. We young
| people have done nothing, and of course are not qualified to
| question them."
|
| >"I tried to communicate with them once, but the police stopped
| me," said the Guiyang man. "They thought I was going to do
| something bad. You know the golden rule of Chinese policy: the
| larger number of people matters. Everything is based on social
| maintenance."
|
| Hardly sounds like a "really good" part of culture to me.
| cafard wrote:
| "Square dancing is a problem left over from history."
|
| If only I'd thought of that line in junior high gym class. Of
| course, it would probably just have earned me twenty push ups
| and an even worse reputation.
| syspec wrote:
| Please don't turn HN into Reddit
| ecshafer wrote:
| Those sound like a few isolated incidences that probably are
| blown out of proportion. 3-4 events and a quote by some
| teenager out of events that happen probably a million times a
| day, is a pretty low rate of issues.
| scabarott wrote:
| Do you live in one of these areas?
| dv_dt wrote:
| It sounds like more park areas need to be built relative to
| the population
| Barrin92 wrote:
| you can argue whether they maybe should tone down the noise a
| little but the health benefits, both physical and social as
| well as even the capital benefits, from the article:
|
| _" China is home to an estimated 100 million dancing
| grannies. Square dancing allows older women, many of whom
| live alone or with younger family members who they
| accompanied on a move to the cities, to socialise. They form
| strong bonds, often shopping or doing other activities,
| including group investments, together, the South China
| Morning Post reported_"
|
| are most likely very, very high and almost certainly
| underestimated. The kind of social security that comes out of
| having these kinds of relations well into old age probably
| saves society an incalculable amount of resources compared to
| the risk of social and financial isolation if these women
| could not meet.
|
| Maybe find a way to make the grannies a little less militant
| but you would be straight up foolish to not encourage the
| elderly to socialize.
| dartharva wrote:
| >the health benefits, both physical and social as well as
| even the capital benefits, are most likely very, very high
| and almost certainly underestimated.
|
| I'd argue it's you who's underestimating the social and
| capital damage those gangs of elderly people hogging public
| places can cause to the working population.
|
| It's apparent that had it been youngsters stirring up such
| racket in the name of "social benefits", they would have
| promptly been squashed. You can't just go and disturb
| and/or deny access to public places to other people just
| because you need to "socialize", it's just unfair.
| zimbatm wrote:
| > 100 million dancing grannies
|
| The article doesn't give a good sense of what proportion
| of that public is causing issues. Of course it's going to
| be easy to cherry-pick problematic behavior on that kind
| of sample size.
| jjoonathan wrote:
| Yep. Sounds like they need noise level regulation and
| enforcement.
|
| The complaints I have heard have been very careful to
| separate the exercise, which is fine and good, from the
| excessive noise level during sleep time, which is not.
| pessimizer wrote:
| > I'd argue it's you who's underestimating the social and
| capital damage those gangs of elderly people hogging
| public places can cause to the working population.
|
| I'd bet the damage is nearly impossible to underestimate.
| cyberpsybin wrote:
| Loudspeaker early in the morning are an absolute nightmare.
| It makes lives of every resident living hell. Maybe if it
| happens next to your house, you'll realize
| [deleted]
| duxup wrote:
| That's an interesting POV.
|
| In the US my local parks and public spaces have exercise groups
| (of all sorts), music events, kids activates, farmer's markets,
| ... events OFTEN.
|
| The fact that there is so much space might make it seem like
| some are empty, but there's always something going on near me.
|
| But it's almost never with loud music outside the dedicated
| music events that have spaces for just that.
| bbarnett wrote:
| Loud music isn't a perquisite to gather and do things.
|
| Unless you are the dancing grannies, apparently.
| jjoonathan wrote:
| Right, and therein lies the probable answer -- regulate the
| noise level.
| OneTimePetes wrote:
| cheap headphones for everyone, plus syncing app?
| willcipriano wrote:
| Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Retekess-
| Portable-Earphone-Digital-Re...
|
| And a FM transmitter is what I would go for.
| ecshafer wrote:
| I see events often as well, but in China its more like I saw
| these events in public squares, constantly. People dancing,
| or exercising, or playing badminton in pretty large groups.
| Its not there's a few events a week, like in the US. Its
| there are multiple events a day.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Yeah it seems more part of the daily routine in China...
| the elderly wake up, and congregate in the local park for
| dancing or exercise.
|
| In the US it's kind of "event" based. Like you have a
| farmer's market once a week for a few months... or a local
| yoga teacher offers weekly classes in the park to drum up
| business for their studio.
|
| I've never seen seniors congregating in public spaces in
| the US like I have in various cities throughout China. The
| closest I've seen may be "mall walkers" who will show up
| when malls first open and wander around together... but it
| pales in comparison. It makes me wonder if we've ruined
| ourselves with our idea of individualism or something.
| duxup wrote:
| Yeah in the US it's not big event at scale daily.
|
| More lots of little events scattered all over the place.
| Events daily but they might be different.
|
| If you don't 'go' to the park too it's not always
| obvious, but they're there.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| This is the first I've heard this, but I live in a heavily
| Chinese part of Northern California. The parks have very small
| groups of Chinese women dancing in the mornings, but that's it.
| It sounds like it's a much bigger thing in China. Taking over
| the basketball courts? Wow.
|
| My feeling is, it's harmless here. I wouldn't presume to tell
| the Chinese what they ought to do about it over there.
| [deleted]
| LurkingPenguin wrote:
| > This is just one of the many reasons why Chinese cities are
| almost universally better than American cities (more walkable,
| better transit, easy navigation, more public spaces. Though
| they do love their super blocks).
|
| American cities aren't God's finest work, but I'm curious: have
| you actually spent any time in Chinese cities and if you have,
| how much time have you spent in second and third-tier cities?
|
| > ...you get exercise...
|
| Exercising in toxic air is of dubious benefit.
| vmception wrote:
| okay interesting observation, but why is the device bad?
| ecshafer wrote:
| I personally believe that interfering with people socializing
| and building a community is a negative. I concede that there
| can be issues with some events. But these are people who are
| a little loud, and is ruining many people's enjoyment for one
| person's enjoyment.
| alpaca128 wrote:
| Sleep is not about enjoyment, it is one of the most
| important influences on long-term health. Even more
| important than "a little loud" music and dancing at a time
| others want to rest.
|
| From all I've heard the chinese work week is challenging
| enough as it is, even without noise pollution on top.
| OneTimePetes wrote:
| These are not ordinary old people. These are the old red guard,
| the lost generation. They ruled the streets, they do not abide
| to any law but there own in masses, but at gunpoint. This is
| the outcome of a horrific social experiment gone bad and it
| will renovate its flat at 3 in the morning with jackhammers,
| not giving a shit about your sleep. They will dance the night
| through, in the midst of the city. Your sleep be damned. This
| device is a god send.
| josefresco wrote:
| "Most of them are the products of the Red Guard era, they don't
| respect society or the environment," said a young Chinese
| resident of Guiyang, who did not want to be named.
|
| "Square dancing is a problem left over from history. Many elderly
| people feel that the whole China is built by their generation.
| They have the absolute voice and status. We young people have
| done nothing, and of course are not qualified to question them."
|
| Is this accurate?
| nathanyukai wrote:
| I grow up in Beijing and I have to say this is not accurate but
| statement like this surely is eye-catching in western media...
| My view on this is that the old generation just don't have the
| habit and common courtesy of living in cities, they lived in
| poor rural areas for many years before come to the city. Things
| like queueing, keep voice down was simply not needed outside of
| city, The young generation is much better at these, though
| still have plenty of space to improve!
| schleck8 wrote:
| This article is based on a piece by South China Morning Post.
|
| https://www.scmp.com/news/people-culture/trending-
| china/arti...
|
| > According to the Post, square dancing has its roots in the
| Cultural Revolution, particularly the great link-up of 1965
| and the educated youth campaign in 1969. The damas are of
| middle age because square dancing links back to these moments
| of their youth when collectivism was an important social
| value in China.
| dirtyid wrote:
| Very much yes. Imagine all the obnoxiousness of current
| internet cultural wars. Red guard is that, except it was a
| literal physical cultural war and they were the winners, which
| shaped their identities and sense of entitleness. It's a cohort
| with very strong personalities from a era where lack of shame
| was both a survival mechanism and got you far.
| pessimizer wrote:
| It's accurate that modern China was built by their
| generation...
| at_a_remove wrote:
| Hunh. China has its own Boomer problem. The parallels are
| interesting. Fascinating.
| llampx wrote:
| I would think that the people currently having kids are the
| boomers in China, because they are the ones who benefit from
| the wealth being generated today the way boomers in the US
| and western Europe did in the 50s and onwards.
| khuey wrote:
| In terms of political and cultural impact in the United
| States the defining characteristic of the Baby Boomers is
| not the wealth they grew up with but their sheer number.
| pessimizer wrote:
| Their number was a result of their parents' wealth.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| Their number was a result of a post WW2 boom. In China
| the boom was even more so since a lot more people were
| lost in the war, then the civil war, then the Korean war,
| and then famines in the 1950s.
| khuey wrote:
| And then the one child policy which shrank later
| generations.
| WhySoGullible wrote:
| Dancing grannies are actually one of the aspects about China that
| I absolutely love. I can go out anywhere I want at any time of
| the night and feel safe. Why? Hoards of wholesome dancing
| grannies fill all of those dark spaces normally occupied by drug
| addicts and hoodlums in Western countries.
|
| They make the public spaces feel 'alive'. I've lived in my
| different cities in the West including those in Western Europe
| and North America, and all too often public spaces become
| completely dead and devoid of life all because people have become
| so fearful of offending others or looking stupid. Everyone just
| wants to keep to themselves and be left alone. Suburbs are
| practically ghost towns with everyone (probably on their devices)
| hiding inside their homes. Physical social networks are clearly
| on the decline and as a result, depression and loneliness has
| become an absolute epidemic in the West. The problem only gets
| exponentially worse as one ages.
|
| Happy dancing grannies engaging in physical exercise, socializing
| and helping to keep the community safe is what Western countries
| to be aspiring to have, instead of criticizing and ridiculing.
| 5m17h wrote:
| created:16 days ago
| neither_color wrote:
| A lot of Americans have no frame of reference for what you're
| describing because they've never lived somewhere where
| "dangerous parts" of the city dont make up a large part of it.
| My experience in Beijing/Shanghai was that some parts are ultra
| modern and other parts are run down, but even the run down
| parts don't feel dangerous and don't put you on alert for
| getting mugged/robbed. People in the US believe that it's all a
| strict mathematics/economics function where poverty=danger and
| nothing can be done about it, they've given up on the culture
| part of it and just enable the epidemic of junkie and needles
| and sketchy people take up large swathes of public space,
| especially on the west coast.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| Well, compare the crime rate in a US city to the crime rate
| _among Asians_ in the same city. Or any other US city.
|
| Chinese cities are populated by Asians. If an American city
| made that change and no other changes, the crime rate would
| fall to negligible levels.
| fwip wrote:
| Could you blow your dog whistle a little less hard?
| noona wrote:
| I don't think it is culture or at least not the permanent
| kind. Asia has plenty of crime. Quite severe crime, and
| organized crime, and personal crime. From what I've heard
| large Chinese cities used to have a lot more crime. You can
| still see the bars on the windows of older buildings.
|
| Just like it is hard to understand that these large cities
| are generally safe it is also hard to understand the amount
| of development that has happened. By now most would have
| probably heard the stories or seen the pictures of things
| like changing skylines. But it's different when you go there.
| Almost every year there is one or more projects completed
| that would have taken 10 or 20 years in western countries.
| And not just shopping malls but projects that actually do
| something.
|
| It's really hard to pessimistic with that kind of change
| despite being faced with a very real reality everyday. We
| used to speculate that China might be the best country to be
| born in today. Because it would take ~20+ years until you
| enter the workforce. And if the next 20 years are like the
| past 20 years you could do really well. That outlook has of
| course dimmed a bit since then.
|
| What I'm trying to say it that when people believe things
| will get better they don't want to give up their future. When
| things stagnant or getting worse people are hopeless they
| feel like they have nothing to lose. Crime seems to be factor
| of that. Maybe just not to those ending up committing the
| crimes but for everyone else as well.
|
| It's not surprising to me that some crimes and social unrest
| is on the rise in supposedly prosperous countries when
| everything is getting expensive, opportunities are getting
| harder to come by and those opportunities you do have count
| for less. If those at the top of society all act like there
| is no tomorrow, or that tomorrow doesn't matter, we shouldn't
| expect those at the bottom to act any differently. I can
| agree that this sort of culture, the one of acts and
| impressions, makes a huge difference.
| dirtyid wrote:
| Beijing megablock with 30k residents and vibrant commercial /
| social activities on ground floor is a nice taste of new
| urbanism. That said, dancing grannies with boom boxes blasting
| until 10pm on a school night is what noise regulations are for.
| And at least in my old compound, security had a very hard
| enforcing it. Hopefully this is an addressible problem for
| headphone companies when wireless broadcast technologies
| advances.
| clairity wrote:
| a fond memory of visiting beijing many years ago is all the old
| folks doing tai chi in various parks and empty lots around the
| city at like 7am. it made the city feel warm and alive. where i
| live (in LA), you see folks out jogging and walking their dog
| at that time, but it's mostly all solitary activity.
| [deleted]
| reaperducer wrote:
| _where i live (in LA), you see folks out jogging and walking
| their dog at that time, but it's mostly all solitary
| activity._
|
| In some of the large American cities where I've lived, the
| parks are populated by groups of Lululemons doing yoga in the
| morning. Some cities, like Chicago and Houston, even organize
| the events.
|
| Considering the lifestyle I remember from my L.A. days, I'd
| say there's probably a yoga group in a park not too far from
| where you live.
| soared wrote:
| I didn't know this was common! I see this many mornings in a
| parking lot in the middle of Denver.
| clairity wrote:
| yah, to be fair, i'm sure it does happen here in LA too (in
| chinatown, for instance), but i don't see it everywhere
| like it seemed in beijing.
| asdff wrote:
| we do yoga in parks and cemeteries instead in LA
| snypher wrote:
| >Hoards of wholesome dancing grannies fill all of those dark
| spaces normally occupied by drug addicts and hoodlums in
| Western countries.
|
| I know (hope?) you are being hyperbolic, but I don't think
| these two issues are as directly related as you make it seem.
| riddleronroof wrote:
| Agree with this. We have dancing grannies in chinatown, nyc.
| And that is way better than thr alternative.
| rsj_hn wrote:
| Wait, what is the alternative to dancing grannies?
| turtlebits wrote:
| Population density in Asian countries is not even close
| comparable to Western cities.
|
| Also, if it's dark out, people are generally sleeping- music
| should not be playing at loud volumes.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| They are not going away anytime soon because they are actually
| endorsed by the state and tech solutions will come out to
| nullify this
| ilaksh wrote:
| It seems like the solution is to just play the music at a
| reasonable level? And if they can't do that then start
| arresting them.
| Finnucane wrote:
| I could have used one of these last night on the douchebros in
| the yard behind our house.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| You must live in my neighborhood; they live across the street
| from me.
|
| Sadly, the device looks like an infrared TV-B-Gone. Prob won't
| work for us.
| pier25 wrote:
| Same. I'd love to buy this device.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| I doubt they are really selling a BT jammer, as A2DP is really
| hard to jam due to the frequency hopping. But I would love to
| buy one for sure!
| vel0city wrote:
| While its hard to target the particular device, jamming _all_
| Bluetooth isn 't too hard. My old microwave was pretty
| effective at jamming darn near everything around 2.4GHz when
| operating.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| > jamming all Bluetooth isn't too hard
|
| I've researched, and even with several ESP32s its
| impossible. There are 79 frequency bands, and one would
| have to jam most of them. Talking about battery-operated
| device here, not a 1000W microwave.
| vel0city wrote:
| You're approaching a topic of doing something against the
| rules with hardware that's certified to try and follow
| the rules as much as possible. If you're going to try and
| break the rules, its going to be easier to go about
| breaking it with hardware designed to break the rules, or
| at least without those rules in mind. There's 80MHz of
| bandwidth to try and raise the noise floor high enough
| that normal devices can't communicate.
|
| Using Bluetooth chipsets aren't a great idea as they're
| optimized to think of it as 79 independent channels of
| which you need to select one. And on that, then try and
| send something of the standards and all the limitations
| involved in a normal device. Luckily, 2.4GHz WiFi runs on
| the exact same frequencies, its pretty easy to get your
| hands on 40MHz wide channel chips, and they don't have
| any real considerations as to the protocols and
| limitations of Bluetooth. Two hackable WiFi chipsets
| might be able to get you closer to abusing Bluetooth,
| you'll just want to set it to the wider 40MHz channels on
| each, ensure you set it to the Japanese frequencies or
| you'll miss the upper end of the Bluetooth bands, and
| then start sending out tons of junk at a higher than
| allowed power level. If you can somehow find something
| that lets you transmit on 80MHz wide 2.4GHz channels then
| you'd only need a single chipset to do it, but I'd
| imagine those would be exceptionally rare.
|
| Note: as an amateur radio operator, RF enthusiast, and a
| fellow human being who likes his devices working, please
| don't break the rules.
| exabrial wrote:
| Interesting... I've been to China a few times (Shanghai, Beijing,
| Hangzhou, others...) and my experience has been a little
| different.
|
| I didn't notice so much "just grannies", but couples, and it was
| mainly ballroom dance, not square dancing. I don't speak much
| Chinese, but ballroom styles are fairly universal, and the women
| were delighted to dance with a foreigner. Younger generations
| just kinda sat around on their phones but didn't seem bothered.
| NAR8789 wrote:
| "Square dancing" here is I think a fairly awkward translation
| by the author. "Square" here refers a location, as in "public
| square" or "field". The literal chinese is Yan Chang Wu . Yan
| Chang : public square (like Times Square or Tiananmen Square,
| but more commonly an open area in a park); Wu : dance.
|
| Put it together... "square dance". Hm. Accurate in a word-by-
| word literal sense, but the article writer is being obtuse in
| ignoring the more popular usage of "square dancing".
|
| I think "field dancing" or "park dancing" might be a less
| confusing translation that stays relatively literal.
|
| Though... if you're searching your memory for where you've seen
| this before and trying to remember by dance style... honestly
| I'd say it significantly resembles line dancing (which still
| shouldn't be confused with square dancing). Usually no caller
| (as far as I've seen), but everyone's listening to the same
| music, facing the same direction, and doing the same dance
| moves. Generally no partners--just a grid of people
| individually dancing in unison.
|
| I would probably accept "line dancing grannies" as a reasonable
| translation. Less literal, but more descriptive.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| Ya, square dancing in China literally means dancing in some
| kind of public square (which almost all parks in China have).
| They aren't doing the Macarena (usually).
|
| Whether there is a caller or not is usually left to local
| culture. Not sure how ayi gets translated to granny, however.
| mc32 wrote:
| While I'm sure it's rather annoying. Like when you live in a city
| and your neighbors insist on having you enjoy their taste in
| music, this is very cunning.
|
| They play retro communist-nationalistic tunes, which Xi is
| bringing back to prominence, so complaints could be taken to be
| counterrevolutionary )these grannies harken back to Mao's
| movements.
| scabarott wrote:
| Hooligan grannies lol, that's a new one. On another note where
| can I get this magical gun that silences loudspeakers from a
| distance?
| kaonashi wrote:
| Passive-aggressive Taiwanese anti-china propaganda is such a
| funny genre.
| killjoywashere wrote:
| One thing that needs to be said, if I understand this correctly:
| the dancing grannies are explicitly a product of the CCP,
| correct?
| petesergeant wrote:
| I'm in Oaxaca, Mexico, and they've got a group of people
| dancing to a boombox in the park here. I've lived many years in
| Bangkok, and the same. Seems hard to pin it explicitly on the
| CCP.
| odiroot wrote:
| I visited Chengdu (among others) in 2017/2018 and saw the square
| dancing many times. Always found it charming, especially seeing
| that the elderly have some active ways to spend their time. It
| must be good for their health. But yes they really tend to blast
| their music very loud.
|
| Already back then, the People's Park had decibel meters in every
| spot the oldies congregated, warning them if they went over the
| limit.
|
| Once I also watched quite an old gentleman performing (singing
| live to a backing track) folk songs from Inner Mongolia. He was
| really good at this and his voice was very moving.
|
| Really wish I could see it in person again.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| This entire article isn't passing the sniff test for me.
|
| Not only am I skeptical of the technology but I'm skeptical
| there's an actual problem here. On the surface it feels like a
| softball seat filler of an article.
| tqi wrote:
| Yeah, the implicit tone of this article is "check out this
| foreign curiosity, isn't it so weird?" similar to the articles
| about rental families in Japan.
|
| The Guardian can fuck off.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| It's less of a problem (on the scale of Covid or climate
| change) and more of a familiar annoyance. It's not causing
| major harm, but it's still a cultural problem: Some people
| don't care about others.
|
| Have you ever heard/felt a motorcycle going by while the
| operator flicked the throttle to cause the engine to backfire
| so loudly you felt it in your chest? Don't turn your head, if
| you look at them they'll think you think they're cool and
| they'll come back later so they can feel cool again. If you
| talk to them, they'll tell you loud pipes save lives, and when
| you point out that studies show that most motorcycle accidents
| occur due to vehicles in front of the bike, while the Doppler
| effect, modern cars' road noise deadening construction, and the
| bike's exhaust orientation direct most of the noise behind the
| bike, so they only serve to annoy pedestrians, they'll tell you
| they think they're cool.
|
| Have you been sunbathing at the beach, risking falling asleep
| from the comfortable warmth of the sun, gentle rhythm of the
| waves, and the laughter of children playing, when someone
| brought a surprisingly loud Bluetooth speaker and decided that
| instead of those sounds you all needed to hear 90s party pop?
| On asking them, they might turn the music up, clearly what this
| beach needs is a little more NSYNC.
|
| Have you been filling up your gas tank at a quiet gas station
| when a pickup truck rolled in with its windows down and country
| music coming over the radio, and the driver shut the engine
| off, opened the doors, and left the radio running so the entire
| assembled group of tired commuters, who were all clearly in
| need of some tunes, could listen together? Everyone loves
| country music, and those who don't, just need some exposure and
| then they'll like it.
|
| I've only been to Shanghai once, and yes, the dancing grannies
| are a real thing that were present at a bunch of parks, but
| even in American national parks the same Red Guard generation
| of Chinese tourists are well known to be frequently rude.
|
| This kind of behavior is rude. Put on some headphones, please,
| or at least turn down the volume: you shouldn't assume an
| exclusive right to the auditory experience of everyone at a
| public park.
| 9999px wrote:
| Look at the author's publishing history. Nothing but Australian
| fluff news until 2019 then she started posting upwards of two
| "China bad" articles a day nearly every day since.
|
| The US' war on China means that anti-China sentiment is on the
| rise and that means dollar signs for publishers who are happy
| to toe the line.
| bsedlm wrote:
| > But many are too scared to confront the women.
|
| This reminds me of this Monty Python sketch: Monty Python -
| Hell's Grannies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmzMzmnB-iQ
| jrockway wrote:
| When I lived in Japan (high school exchange) there was
| neighborhood "radio taiso" in the morning. I got the impression
| that people loved it and it was one of those things that made
| living in a dense city tolerable -- a little bit of routine, a
| little bit of meeting your neighbors before work/school. It is
| amazing to me that China wants to ban it because it's loud.
| exporectomy wrote:
| China doesn't want to ban it, just some grumpy people. There's
| always some grumpy person who blames loud neighbors for their
| own life or sleep problems.
| ilaksh wrote:
| I think they want them to lower the volume at the times that
| other people are still sleeping.
| lhorie wrote:
| My impression is that radio taiso is quite a bit tamer than
| dancing grannies. The former is usually mellow with slower
| tempos and relaxing uplifting vibes and it's really meant to be
| something for all ages; the latter is closer to electronic/club
| music, with faster tempos, and more aggressive beats (and yes,
| it's quite a bit louder too).
|
| In my experience, radio taiso also inherits a lot of the
| japanese polite culture. When I was young, my experience was
| that radio taiso always took consideration of surroundings: it
| was always in a designated space and time (e.g. the school
| gymnasium before class), whereas my experience w/ dancing
| grannies is that they just kinda make a habit of showing up at
| privately owned public spaces (e.g. malls) early enough in the
| morning and in a large enough group of people that security
| guards don't want to bother dealing with them.
| jimt1234 wrote:
| When I lived in Shanghai back in 2002, old ladies used to do this
| same thing, but to slower, traditional Chinese music, not this
| Chinese-dance-pop-fusion music. I'll take the traditional Chinese
| music any day.
| HKH2 wrote:
| In China, they're commonly referred to as 'A Yi ' (aunties).
| christkv wrote:
| I can't believe that Hells Grannies actually came true. Monthy
| Python saw the future but it turned out it was Chinese and not
| British.
| harimau777 wrote:
| I remember a lot of this when I was living in SF's Chinatown.
| Personally, I thought it was a great part of the community and I
| was impressed by how healthy the elderly people in the area
| where.
|
| I can see how the music could be frustrating, but I think it
| would really be unfortunate if this part of the culture went
| away.
| ilaksh wrote:
| I think the issue is the noise pollution. Playing the music at
| lower volume would probably go a long way. Or using earbuds.
| rsj_hn wrote:
| I like the grannies, too. If they were dancing to US pop 70s
| hits, it might be the most awesome thing in the world.
| peterburkimsher wrote:
| The old grannies are Stayin' Alive!
|
| You can tell by the way I use my wok.
|
| Funny story about dancing grannies in Taipei, back in 2016.
| My boss asked me to go up from Kaohsiung to attend the Python
| Conference. But I was facing some very tight financial times,
| and paying several thousand NTD for the conference fee (which
| wasn't refunded by the company later) was difficult for me.
|
| So I took a cheap night bus instead of HSR train, rode a city
| bike instead of the MRT, and arrived at 6 am for the
| conference at 11 am, hoping to sneak inside the conference
| venue during setup.
|
| How could I loiter there without attracting attention? Well,
| there were a group of grannies dancing. So I joined them!
|
| We had a great time, and some of them even offered to
| introduce me to their granddaughters. And when the time came,
| I bid them farewell, tailgated into the venue, opened my
| laptop and looked busy. The dancing grannies were so
| hospitable, though, welcoming a crazy foreign boy and being
| rather too trusting.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| the Macarena was popular with groups I saw in the morning !
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Any new soundproofing tech to keep an eye on? White noise
| machines and ear buds can only do so much
| boomlinde wrote:
| Get a good pair of ANC headphones. They won't cancel
| everything, but play a rain loop and you're gold. This has been
| very useful to me while WFH. I can't sleep with them on,
| though; I get nightmares if I sleep on my back.
|
| Someone should make an ANC pillow!
| richardatlarge wrote:
| This was already posted a few days ago. I thought HN
| automatically assessed submissions for duplicates?
| robtherobber wrote:
| The article doesn't mention the device name or size, but I have
| to say that this is something I'm interested into as well.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| It's purported to be a version of this
| https://www.amazon.com/TV-B-Gone-Universal-TV-Control-Keycha...
|
| Kit: https://www.instructables.com/TV-B-Gone-Kit/
| jzymbaluk wrote:
| Let the grannies dance, c'mon
| kelnos wrote:
| I'm really torn on this sort of thing.
|
| I live in a city, and accept that dealing with noise is a part of
| life. And I expect these dance-exercise meetings are actually
| great for the people who participate; certainly here in the US I
| know that the elderly often feel alone and have trouble
| maintaining social relationships the older they get. Not to
| mention getting outside and exercising is great for physical
| health.
|
| But if you wake me up early in the morning with loud music I will
| end you.
| e40 wrote:
| "Viral videos and reports have shown the groups arguing and
| fighting with basketball players to take over their court, or,
| in one case, breaking into a football field and stopping the
| game to dance in the space, prompting a police response and
| arrests."
|
| That seems pretty unruly, but it could easily be the vast
| exception.
| jiggunjer wrote:
| This phenomenon occurs in Hong Kong too. When I asked a local why
| he disapproves he said it's not actually HK culture but a
| relatively recent thing due to the influx of mainlanders.
| aww_dang wrote:
| I couldn't find any details on the actual device or how it works?
| peter303 wrote:
| The return of "boom boxes" is ruining areas of US parks. This is
| facilitated by some smart phones with loud volumes or attachments
| to smart phones that turn them into boom boxes. I dont want hear
| other people loud music at times. P.s. these devices are on
| bicycles and hikers too.
| icelancer wrote:
| People love using them on the bus and light rail, too. It's...
| not great.
| bikingbismuth wrote:
| I have had to find more remote hiking locations to get away
| from the increasingly prevalent use of (awful sounding)
| bluetooth speakers on hiking trails. I have definitely
| fantasized about "loudly broadcasting" on the same frequencies
| that BT uses to get a bit of peace and quiet.
|
| I would never do this because there are probably some highly
| unfortunate unintended consequences and I don't want to go to
| jail.
| sonthonax wrote:
| Agreed.
|
| I wonder what's driving the upsurge? It's the same in the UK
| too.
|
| I remember being at a park party a few months ago with some
| fellow 20-25 year olds; I suggested turning the music down, but
| it took the police to kindly ask for the request to be heeded.
| What astonished me was that the 20 something girls were
| indignant at the police's request, as if their human rights
| were violated.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| My personal peeve is when people do this at the beach.
| (Including my friends!) Like, you have headphones. You can
| enjoy your music. A big part of the fun, for me, is hearing the
| water and gulls and sand and waves.
| jimt1234 wrote:
| 100% agree. I remember going camping just before pandemic hit.
| It wasn't peaceful at all, more like a rave party.
| jonpurdy wrote:
| Noticed this when I moved to SF a couple of years ago. No idea
| why it's so popular here compared to Toronto, especially when
| people are alone and can just wear earbuds.
| Aromasin wrote:
| This trend seems to extend to the UK too. To be honest, I don't
| mind it in open public spaces likes parks and such. I mostly
| travel on the London underground though, which is cramped place
| at the best of times, and a frankly ridiculous amount of people
| have recently started listening to music through their
| loudspeaker on full volume.
|
| The most baffling part is it's often people on their own, not
| in groups. Every time I think to myself that now might be the
| time to pull out the old homemade EMP gun and take it for a
| spin.
| haspoken wrote:
| "It's a flashlight-mounted TV-B-Gone The aunties music players
| have an IR remote"
|
| https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/144646248724781465...
| junon wrote:
| My first thought was "wtf, did they circumvent electromagnetism
| from a distance?"
| psychlops wrote:
| I came here with "That's not possible...is it?"
| [deleted]
| tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
| I'm not sure if I should be disappointed or relieved that it
| isn't a high-energy remote zapper.
|
| I kind of expected a Bluetooth jammer.
| Havoc wrote:
| Damn was hoping for something more exotic. Actually disabling a
| speaker at distance would have been a feat
| dirtyid wrote:
| Hoping Bluetooth 5.2 with mass broadcasting features could be a
| solution. Some 5.2 hearing aids with voice pass through options
| to keep back ground music down, half the reason the music is so
| loud is they're old and going deaf anyway. With current tech,
| bunch of grandmas still need to sync up ipods like a flash mob
| which isn't going to happen. Add in spatial audio to simulate
| physical boom box. Apple get on this. As someone with ANC
| headphones all the time, personally very excited for when
| communal audio / seemless enviromental broadcast becomes a thing.
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