[HN Gopher] Key witness in Assange case jailed after admitting t...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Key witness in Assange case jailed after admitting to lies and
       crime spree
        
       Author : dane-pgp
       Score  : 300 points
       Date   : 2021-10-09 14:29 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (stundin.is)
 (TXT) w3m dump (stundin.is)
        
       | animal_spirits wrote:
       | > Sigurdur Thordarson, a key witness for the FBI against Julian
       | Assange, has been jailed in Iceland
       | 
       | Oh! This guy was supposed to be a witness _for_ the FBI _against_
       | Assange. From the title I assumed the opposite.
        
       | zz865 wrote:
       | OK this is the case about whether he committed sexual assault in
       | Sweden - which may be exaggerated or fake is just to extradite
       | him to the US.
       | 
       | There is no doubt that he really is guilty of leaking US secrets.
        
         | guilhas wrote:
         | He is guilty of demonstrating USA government/military were
         | complicit in committing and covering crimes
         | 
         | Is that the government we want? Expert in killing and hiding
         | the body? Because it might backfire
        
         | pydry wrote:
         | Usually that's called journalism.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > OK this is the case about whether he committed sexual assault
         | in Sweden
         | 
         | No, this is a witness whose testimony is related to late
         | additions to the US charges.
        
         | GeekyBear wrote:
         | > There is no doubt that he really is guilty of leaking US
         | secrets.
         | 
         | He did no such thing.
         | 
         | He published secrets somebody else leaked.
         | 
         | Just like journalists have done for decades.
        
           | SavantIdiot wrote:
           | He had secrets A0...An, and B0...Bn.
           | 
           | A0...An were for political candidate A.
           | 
           | B0...Bn were for opposing political candidate B.
           | 
           | Political candidate B in conjunction with an aligned foreign
           | country paid him to publish only the material on A. Some
           | elements of A were false and constructed by Candidate B to
           | smear Candidate A.
           | 
           | He knew this.
           | 
           | He chose sides, while simultaneously claiming he is neutral.
           | 
           | I have not judged, I have only stated the facts.
           | 
           | EDIT: We also do not know how both sets of secrets were
           | acquired. There are claims he was involved with the
           | exfiltration, a statement that has not been proven or
           | disproven yet since there has been no trial.
           | 
           | EDIT #2: He also has at least one motivation to help
           | Candidate B as Candidate A has stated a desire to prosecute
           | him heavily.
        
             | TeeMassive wrote:
             | > He chose sides, while simultaneously claiming he is
             | neutral.
             | 
             | Which is not a crime.
        
               | RugnirViking wrote:
               | Exactly. If what Assange did was a crime, the New York
               | times commits the same crime every couple of months. This
               | "New York times problem" was shown to be a frequent point
               | of internal discussion in the recent leaks regarding the
               | US plans for kidnapping Assange
        
             | sva_ wrote:
             | > Political candidate B in conjunction with an aligned
             | foreign country paid him to publish only the material on A.
             | 
             | Could you provide a source on those claims?
        
               | beeboop wrote:
               | He can't, because it's total bullshit propaganda.
        
             | boomboomsubban wrote:
             | Ignoring all the other perfectly valid criticism of this
             | argument, this isn't what he's being charged with.
        
             | ZoomerCretin wrote:
             | This is an extraordinary claim. To my best recollection, he
             | was only given information on the Clinton campaign. Do you
             | have any source, any evidence whatsoever that he had
             | damaging information on Trump around the time that
             | WikiLeaks released the Clinton State Department/Podesta
             | emails?
             | 
             | >He chose sides, while simultaneously claiming he is
             | neutral.
             | 
             | It's interesting that you can look at hard evidence of a
             | 100% political prosecution of a _journalist_, and not think
             | one layer deeper than what information you've been fed
             | about him. If the United States is willing to imprison a
             | journalist who has never set foot in the US on false
             | charges, what makes you think they won't also manufacture a
             | second scenario to turn public opinion against him?
             | 
             | "I don't agree with the political prosecution of Julian
             | Assange, but he is responsible for (AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE
             | AGENCY FALSE FLAG), therefore I do not care what happens to
             | him."
        
               | beeboop wrote:
               | Assange said if he was given stuff to leak about Trump
               | and was able to verify it the same way he verifies
               | anything, he would release it. There's no reason not to,
               | it's not like Assange is the only person in the world
               | capable of releasing stuff and performing journalism. The
               | idea that he _covered up_ Trump leaks is ridiculous - the
               | leaker would just go to someone else and it 'd get out
               | regardless. This is proven by the many many Trump leaks
               | that _did_ get out to mainstream media.
        
               | SavantIdiot wrote:
               | Wow, you have the gall to criticize my argument with
               | bullshit? /r/selfawarewolves would like a word with you,
               | son.
               | 
               | And to call assange a journalist is utterly laughable.
               | 
               | Journalists provide context, history, and analysis.
               | Assange is copypasta.
        
             | alangibson wrote:
             | > there has been no trial.
             | 
             | And there won't be. The whole thing is already way too
             | dirty to bring to trial. Word is the CIA was paying the
             | security firm WikiLeaks hired to provide them with his
             | conversations with lawyers and basically everything else.
             | There's a court case in Spain going on right now over this.
        
               | mike_d wrote:
               | So the CIA explicitly did what they are chartered to do?
               | They spied on conversations taking place in another
               | countries embassy?
               | 
               | While it might be the subject of a court case in Spain,
               | it probably will not play out the way Assange apologists
               | hope. The actions taken by Undercover Global at the
               | behest of the CIA were likely coordinated by the CITCO
               | and with the blessing of the British government.
        
               | Jensson wrote:
               | I doubt Spain would be doing an investigation into the
               | case and arrest people if it truly was properly
               | coordinated with Spanish intelligence networks. And even
               | if they did coordinate it still wasn't seen as legal by
               | the Spanish justice system as the case has been going for
               | years and it is still making progress.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | ipaddr wrote:
             | Your point is he selectively choose to published articles
             | for one side. You feel a journalist should publish
             | everything or they committed a crime?
             | 
             | CNN selectively chooses news stories, fox news as well as
             | your local news. Why do you hear about fires and shootings
             | but not the great Apple pie your neighbour made because
             | those news stations select news that will bring in viewers.
             | 
             | In this case he published a drone camera killing which was
             | bad for the party in power. He published the leaked emails
             | which was bad for a different party. I can't agree he has
             | taken a political party's side because it is not clear
             | which political party. One thing is he has enemies in both
             | parties and no friends.
        
         | rafale wrote:
         | > There is no doubt that he really is guilty of leaking US
         | secrets.
         | 
         | How is it different from the Washington Post leaking the
         | Pentagon papers? Honest question, not snarky.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ChrisKnott wrote:
           | I don't think they actually published the papers, they just
           | wrote stories using the papers as the source.
           | 
           | Assange is also accused of assisting his source in attempting
           | (unsuccessfully) to crack a password hash, thereby (the
           | prosecution alleges) taking on more the Daniel Ellsberg role
           | rather than the Washington Post role.
           | 
           | Not commenting on the appropriateness or not of prosecuting
           | Assange, but the situations have significant differences.
        
             | ZoomerCretin wrote:
             | He assisted his source in a failed attempt to crack a
             | password hash? This is the "significant difference" you
             | think makes him worthy of prosecution? He was a journalist
             | exposing war crimes. He is not a US citizen and is not
             | subject to US laws. If China extended their ban on youths
             | playing video games for more than a few hours in a week to
             | the world, you would probably have a problem with them
             | forcing authorities in a country you're vacationing in to
             | arrest your children and extradite them to China.
        
             | himinlomax wrote:
             | > I don't think they actually published the papers, they
             | just wrote stories using the papers as the source.
             | 
             | "The New York Times began publishing excerpts on June 13,
             | 1971" -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_Papers#Leak
        
           | Melting_Harps wrote:
           | > How is it different from the Washington Post leaking the
           | Pentagon papers? Honest question, not snarky.
           | 
           | 2 main ways: first, Julian is an Australian and never lived
           | in the US, and Daniel Elsberg was a US citizen living in the
           | US the time he released the PP and thus was protected under
           | some semblance of need for a trail to ensure he was in fact
           | an enemy combatant or a spy for a foreign nation-state--these
           | charges were then dropped subsequently when the public was
           | made aware of Watergate and Nixon stepping down.
           | 
           | Secondly, it's a blatant selective application of the Law,
           | even with Snowden who has repeatedly asked to be tried by a
           | jury of his peers, which will never happen. There is nothing
           | more to it than that, Jullian never stepped foot in the US
           | and the leaks were ultimately done by Chelsea Manning and
           | hosted on Wikleaks and sent to major publications around the
           | World, who has also been through hell and back before getting
           | her sentence commuted.
           | 
           | Ultimately, it's become a politicized issue and Julian
           | Assange has been a the bane for the DoD and Intelligence
           | Agencies of not just the US but many other countries, so
           | despite the UN calling his continued arrest a Crime Against
           | Humanity, nothing will change until he is either made an
           | example of, ironically this means that Assange will have
           | lived up to his supposed reputation for being a megalomaniac
           | and thus will become a martyr the same way Arron Scwartz has
           | become from the FOSS community.
           | 
           | Suffice it to say, I'm a big fan of Jullian and followed his
           | work since his talks at the CCC (2011?) and all of his Wiki
           | stuff which involved Bitcoin etc... I fear the Julian we all
           | knew has likely been eroded away and has clearly had his
           | faculties get destroyed along with his physical health,
           | mental health--he was diagnosed as autistic but I'm sure the
           | PTSD, loneliness and forced isolation have been more severe
           | than anything else after all these years.
           | 
           | Julian isn't a hero, he is a deeply flawed Human being who
           | decided that he couldn't bare not acting at a time of crisis;
           | something that we should as a species should laud, but
           | instead we are forced to witness the systematic destruction
           | of a Man's life for making the World aware of what took place
           | in perpetual and unjust wars.
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | > There is no doubt that he really is guilty of leaking US
         | secrets.
         | 
         | That's for a court to decide. It's why we have trials: to
         | determine if someone is guilty or not.
        
           | rileymat2 wrote:
           | I find the jurisdictional issues interesting as well. He is
           | not a U.S. citizen, he was not in the United States.
           | 
           | Obviously, I would propose that someone who hacks U.S.
           | interests having never set foot in the United States should
           | be held accountable by U.S. courts, but he was even on the
           | fringe of that in the promotion of it.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | > Obviously, I would propose that someone who hacks U.S.
             | interests having never set foot in the United States should
             | be held accountable by U.S. courts.
             | 
             | I don't necessarily disagree, but where this gets difficult
             | is the inverse. When a US citizen commits a crime in a
             | foreign country, will the US let the their citizen be tried
             | outside the US?
        
               | ComputerGuru wrote:
               | > When a US citizen commits a crime in a foreign country,
               | will the US let the their citizen be tried outside the
               | US?
               | 
               | If they're just another Joe Schmoe, they'll be hung to
               | dry. If they have connections, they not only won't be
               | extradited, they'll be smuggled out of the country they
               | committed bald-faced murder in to turn it into a question
               | of extradition when it was not.
               | 
               | (Look up Anne Sacoolas.)
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | > Anne Sacoolas
               | 
               | This was front and centre of my thinking, along with some
               | of the war-crimes scenarios that have played out.
        
         | chuckee wrote:
         | > There is no doubt that he really is guilty of leaking US
         | secrets.
         | 
         | Lets say he is. He is not a US citizen, and he didn't do the
         | leaking on US soil - what duty does he have to keep US secrets
         | secret? In fact, without a confidentiality agreement, I think
         | even US citizens are allowed to leak them. Something to do with
         | the 1st amendment.
         | 
         | If you published secret information given to you by a Russian
         | dissident, would you expect to be extradited to Russia? Even if
         | you had encouraged/helped that dissident?
        
           | mike_d wrote:
           | While he was not a US citizen, he is involved in a crime
           | committed in the US. Just like if an American had hired an
           | art thief to steal a painting from a European gallery.
           | 
           | The legal concept of extraterritorial jurisdiction is
           | extremely complex and nuanced, but primarily falls upon the
           | diplomatic power of the country that believes you broke their
           | laws. (If you find this interesting you might enjoy reading
           | about US v. Van Der End, in which a Dutch smuggler was
           | arrested and charged in the US for sailing drugs to Canada)
           | 
           | However all of this is moot because he made the mistake of
           | traveling to the UK and is currently being held by the
           | British. In addition to leaking US secrets he also leaked
           | GCHQ secrets and can be charged under the Official Secrets
           | Act if extradition fails.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
           | If the US believes that he has a duty, and the US has the
           | power and will to enforce that belief, then for all practical
           | purposes, he does have that duty. That's all duties are,
           | really.
           | 
           | What gives the US the power to enforce their views here are a
           | combination of many different factors. The fact the crime in
           | question was committed against the US and in the US (even if
           | Assange was not physically located in the US, the crime
           | happened here, and Assange is accused of being an accessory
           | to that crime). The fact that Assange is physically located
           | in the territory of a close ally of the US. The fact that
           | that ally has no particular love of Assange either. And many
           | other smaller things.
        
             | 8note wrote:
             | > The fact that that ally has no particular love of Assange
             | either
             | 
             | Many countries are bound by the rule of law, and can't do
             | arbitrary bad things to people they don't like
        
             | chuckee wrote:
             | While you give an (afaik) accurate retelling of how Assange
             | got in legal trouble, it amounts to little more than "might
             | makes right" (hidden behind a layer of "might makes the
             | laws").
             | 
             | Whereas I believe the GP was making a _moral_ argument,
             | that Assange _deserves_ it because he leaked US secrets.
             | 
             | There's also the issue of US jurisdiction expanding into
             | other countries being given a level of casual acceptance
             | not afforded to any other country. As another commenter
             | pointed out, these allyships can be very one-sided:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_tre
             | a...
        
               | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
               | I guess I don't really see the moral angle here, in one
               | direction or the other. Why _shouldn 't_ an entity try to
               | impose its understanding of law and ethics where it can
               | afford to? Why _should_ a country 's laws end at its own
               | borders, if they don't have to? If the country views its
               | laws as right, it seems to me it _ought_ to attempt to
               | see those laws enforced as widely as possible.
               | 
               | (One other case where the US does this: child sex
               | tourism. The US will prosecute its own citizens if it
               | finds they travelled abroad to have sex with a minor,
               | even if the violation of the law takes place entirely in
               | another country, even if the other country declines to
               | prosecute the crime or even if it sees it as not being a
               | crime. Prosecuting these crimes that are done abroad
               | seems eminently moral to me. I suspect the actual
               | objection to prosecuting Assange is probably more truly
               | centered in whether what he did was even a crime, or
               | wrong. The question of whether the US ought to be able to
               | prosecute him is really a proxy argument.)
        
               | 8note wrote:
               | Why should they? Because different countries can have
               | laws directly in conflict with each other. Jurisdiction
               | specifies which one actually applies.
               | 
               | Eg. The US says "it is illegal to do business with Iran"
               | while the EU says "it is illegal to stop doing business
               | with Iran"
               | 
               | Mask mandates vs mask mandate bans make another example.
        
               | depr wrote:
               | >I guess I don't really see the moral angle here, in one
               | direction or the other.
               | 
               | You're only looking from one angle though. Try looking at
               | it from Assange's perspective as GP suggested:
               | 
               | >Whereas I believe the GP was making a _moral_ argument,
               | that Assange deserves it because he leaked US secrets.
        
               | chuckee wrote:
               | > If the country views its laws as right, it seems to me
               | it ought to attempt to see those laws enforced as widely
               | as possible.
               | 
               | Suppose I view my diet and exercise regimen as right -
               | should I try to impose (not just suggest) it on others? A
               | country can view both its own laws, and the sovereignty
               | of other countries, as just.
               | 
               | Or look at it this way: Democratic countries tend to
               | think highly of democracy. Higher than any single law
               | resulting from democracy. By imposing your laws on the
               | people of a different country, you are robbing them of
               | that same democracy you so cherish. Would you give up
               | democratic control of your government, if it resulted in
               | passing a couple of laws you liked?
               | 
               | (For certain extreme examples, such as when that country
               | is engaging in genocide or extreme human rights abuses, I
               | would answer yes. But nothing in this case even
               | approaches such severity.)
        
               | josteink wrote:
               | > I guess I don't really see the moral angle here, in one
               | direction or the other. Why shouldn't an entity try to
               | impose its understanding of law and ethics where it can
               | afford to?
               | 
               | You'll have a hell of a good time exercising this
               | conviction when China starts doing the same.
               | 
               | They're already doing it to immediate neighbouring
               | countries and have started doing so in the US through
               | basic means of capitalistic influence.
               | 
               | I mean. They think they're right. Why shouldn't they? Who
               | cares about nations having so called "sovereign" laws?
               | What does your 1st amendment rights mean when China
               | thinks you shouldn't have it?
        
               | alfiedotwtf wrote:
               | > Why should a country's laws end at its own borders, if
               | they don't have to? If the country views its laws as
               | right, it seems to me it ought to attempt to see those
               | laws enforced as widely as possible.
               | 
               | I really don't want to be extradited to Thailand from
               | Australia because I mocked their King online, or
               | extradited to China for commenting on a Falun Gong forum,
               | or extradited to Saudi Arabia for posting a comment
               | supporting gay rights.
               | 
               | You have probably already broken 100 laws from various
               | countries before you got out of bed
        
       | nimbius wrote:
       | If i were to describe the Assange case in a word, it would be
       | myopic.
       | 
       | once again the US has decided this is the hill it will die on.
       | instead of reforming intelligence agencies, challenging the
       | doctrine of mass surveillance, revisiting the manifest destiny of
       | imperialist foreign policy, or even considering the cost to do
       | _nothing_ at all, the US has arrived at the conclusion that a
       | witch hunt is the best hunt.
       | 
       | prosecuting and jailing Assange does absolutely nothing to stop
       | Wikileaks or wilileaks->next(). Whatever effort the US spent to
       | slander and discredit Assange does nothing to stop people
       | inspired by him, or motivated by US foreign policy in countries
       | that do not enjoy its favour. The US seems completely oblivious
       | to the fact that whatever happens to Assange the journalist, it
       | simply isnt enough to curtail the overwhelming cacophony of
       | demand for free and open journalism across the internet.
       | 
       | Just let the guy go and focus the money, time, and effort on
       | preventing this in the future. nearly every major news outlet and
       | journalist all see Assange as a journalist, not a hacker. .
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | > once again the US has decided this is the hill it will die
         | on.
         | 
         | Wat? If it's too much of a pain to prosecute somebody then they
         | should give up?
         | 
         | > nearly every major news outlet and journalist all see Assange
         | as a journalist, not a hacker. .
         | 
         | So is he a journalist or a hacker? It would sure be nice to
         | know. If he is a journalist then I support him, if he is a
         | hacker then I do not. I'd love an answer to this.
         | 
         | I'd like to see what comes out in court that is not public
         | right now.
         | 
         | I'm tired of everybody presupposing that a trial must be unfair
         | therefore people like Snowden or Assange have a license to do
         | whatever they want.
        
           | 8note wrote:
           | I think he's won a direct trip to Guantanamo for torture if
           | the US gets their hands on him. You aren't going to see a
           | trial, those aren't needed for non Americans
        
           | Jensson wrote:
           | > So is he a journalist or a hacker? It would sure be nice to
           | know.
           | 
           | He clearly isn't a hacker, so of those two he got to be a
           | journalist. He publishes information that might have been
           | acquired by hackers, but nobody claims he hacked anything
           | himself, all he did was make a website for publishing stuff
           | (WikiLeaks). If you are one of those who call programmers
           | "hackers" then you could call him a hacker, but he isn't a
           | hacker in the popular definition of "someone who illegally
           | breaks into others computers".
           | 
           | He was the illegal form of hacker a long time ago and was
           | properly charged for it, but that was decades before
           | wikileaks.
           | 
           | Edit: To be clear, not even USA claims he hacked anything in
           | order to get it published on Wikileaks. People calling him a
           | hacker refers to what he did in the 80's and is completely
           | irrelevant to this case.
        
             | boomboomsubban wrote:
             | The US is charging him with conspiracy to commit computer
             | intrusion, for "hacking" into government computers. They
             | are very heavily trying to convince the public he's an evil
             | hacker not a journalist.
        
           | naasking wrote:
           | > It would sure be nice to know. If he is a journalist then I
           | support him, if he is a hacker then I do not. I'd love an
           | answer to this.
           | 
           | You mean you decide whether to support someone based on
           | someone else's arbitrary classification, and not on the
           | merits of their actions, like, I don't know, exposing the US'
           | atrocious war crimes?
        
           | boomboomsubban wrote:
           | I went over this with you a few weeks ago. Only one of his
           | eighteen charges has anything to do with hacking, and what
           | actions he took is already very clear from the Manning trial.
           | 
           | The "hacking" he did was saying he'd try to crack a generic
           | Windows password that provided zero additional documents.
           | There's little chance anything else could come out in court
           | as if they had proof he did something else they would have
           | charged him with it. Even further, he'd still be a journalist
           | if found guilty on this charge, as every other charge is for
           | actions that are unquestionably journalism.
           | 
           | And I don't care if you're sick of hearing he can't get a
           | fair trial, it's still true that he can't get a fair trial.
           | Things like his attorney client privilege have already been
           | compromised, and witnesses the US offered deals to for
           | testifying have already recanted their testimony. This isn't
           | a presupposition, it happened.
        
         | advael wrote:
         | The US' priority in situations like this is overwhelmingly to
         | provide evidence that the threats it makes with criminal laws
         | and defense of national secrets are credible. It has time and
         | time again chosen to die on hills like this. The ethics and
         | optics of it don't seem to factor much into the decisionmaking
        
           | lazide wrote:
           | When power reaches a certain level, it isn't about being seen
           | doing the right or ethical thing. It is about demonstrating
           | that it can and will be used against whoever they want with
           | impunity, even if it's clearly wrong, and they _will_ get
           | away with it.
           | 
           | It stops a lot of people from even attempting to challenge
           | them, and just do what they want without question, which has
           | many advantages. In some situations, it's even legitimately
           | necessary. It's also prone to abuse of course.
           | 
           | In order to keep this kind of power, it's necessary to
           | demonstrate from time to time this power exists and will be
           | used, since if people start not being afraid of having their
           | lives ruined if they challenge said power legitimately, they
           | also stop going along with demands from those in power
           | unquestioningly. And a lot of the ability to destroy someone
           | for whatever reason (including legitimate ones) depends on
           | that unquestioning compliance.
           | 
           | You can think of it as a form of 'bend the knee'.
        
             | BLKNSLVR wrote:
             | I absolutely agree that's what's motivating the US, but
             | it's interesting the future they're shepherding society
             | towards via their encouragements and punishments:
             | 
             | - Assange: whistleblowers, journalists that embarrass the
             | government will be pursued to the ends of the earth
             | 
             | - Snowden: whistleblowers will not be forgiven and will be
             | abandoned without a home country
             | 
             | - Sacklers: will be protected from prosecution beyond a
             | large fine, albeit smaller than the profits made from the
             | activity that brought the fine
             | 
             | - Wall Street: government funding provided as a bailout
             | after failure due to poor business decisions and no one
             | held accountable or prosecuted.
             | 
             | Absolutely demonstrated where 'the power' exists, and
             | there's no overlap with 'for the people'.
        
         | lazide wrote:
         | I don't know - I'm quite sure a number of wannabe Assanges have
         | decided to have other hobbies after seeing what has been done
         | to him. It's making an example.
         | 
         | He doesn't have to actually be in jail for his life to be
         | clearly ruined, and that's has definitely been done. He has no
         | real freedom, has essentially no real relationships anymore,
         | and is a political toy batted around between nations with the
         | future promise of jail 'maybe' in his future, but with no
         | closure.
         | 
         | Sounds like hell to me.
         | 
         | And all those other things sound great to me, Joe random
         | taxpayer, but probably sound pretty terrible to the folks
         | inside the establishment. Have to keep the money flowing or all
         | that work to get the pension goes up in smoke (and that's
         | assuming they aren't smuggling drugs and taking a cut or
         | whatever on the side)
        
           | hyperpallium2 wrote:
           | Crucifixion sometimes has the opposite effect.
        
           | javajosh wrote:
           | Well put. What they've done to Assange is a kind of
           | extrajudicial killing.
        
         | 93po wrote:
         | I feel like the mentality going after Assange so hard is that
         | if they successfully throw him in prison it helps prove to
         | establishment people that, no, Assange is the criminal, and
         | establishment is doing nothing wrong. See, he's in prison. Only
         | wrong people go to prison.
        
           | lazide wrote:
           | All they have to do is keep doing what they are doing - and
           | anywhere he is becomes a prison to him. And they've been very
           | successful at that.
           | 
           | Would it be a feather in someones hat if he actually got
           | arrested and extradited to the US? Probably.
           | 
           | Honestly, it would probably also open up a giant can of worms
           | legally and result in exposure of even more embarrassing
           | details or BS that has been pulled. It's actually working out
           | pretty well for them as-is.
        
       | mirekrusin wrote:
       | Is that picture from the prison itself (label "Sigurdur
       | Thordarson in now in Litla Hraun prison in Iceland")? If it is,
       | it looks order(s) of magnitude better than majority of earthlings
       | homes.
        
         | YellowSuB wrote:
         | No that is a picture of him going into the courthouse in
         | Reykjavik. But prison cells in Iceland are pretty nice though,
         | here is an image of a cell in the new prison Holmsheidi:
         | https://axis.is/wp-content/gallery/holmsheidi/IMG_1081.jpg
         | 
         | But Litla-Hraun is an older building so the cells are not as
         | nice there.
        
           | chmod775 wrote:
           | That's... just a prison cell like you'd find in many places.
           | 
           | Looking at that picture I'm unsure what makes it "nice"
           | except for the fact that it looks somewhat freshly built.
           | 
           | Cells are cells. What really differentiates prisons is
           | everything around them and what amenities and workshops are
           | offered.
        
             | StanislavPetrov wrote:
             | Consider yourself very lucky you have never been to a
             | prison (or jail) in New York. I assure you the cells look
             | nothing like this.
        
               | gambiting wrote:
               | Well but that's like saying consider yourself lucky to
               | not have been to a Russian or Nigerian jail. American
               | prisons are famously bad and known for it worldwide. I'd
               | compare this cell to a cell in a country that doesn't
               | have a completely broken judicial system and then yeah,
               | it's nothing that special. It's a cell, maybe the bed
               | looks "nice" but at the end of the day it's a place of
               | incarceration not a hotel.
        
             | reillyse wrote:
             | There are definitely bad prison cells. Multiple beds per
             | cell, overcrowded, old, cold, hot, no windows etc.
        
               | EugeneOZ wrote:
               | hole in the floor instead of a toilet, and that hole can
               | not be closed, spreading incredibly awful smell 24 hours
               | per day.
        
         | madars wrote:
         | You might enjoy this TIME magazine slideshow: Inside the
         | World's Most Humane Prison
         | https://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,0...
         | about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison
         | 
         | NYT also wrote a feature about it
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/the-radical-huma...
        
         | monocasa wrote:
         | Not from the looks of a Google image search. I'm guessing it's
         | the court house he was tried in?
        
       | encryptluks2 wrote:
       | I keep seeing these random sites popup saying he is a key
       | witness. I assure you they still have a case with or without his
       | support.
        
         | StanislavPetrov wrote:
         | More accurate to they have no case, with or without his
         | support.
        
       | asdefghyk wrote:
       | About Assange potentially being extradited to America for trial.
       | I contrast it with Prince Andrew. A normal person would be facing
       | criminal charges and have been extradited to America for trial.
       | One justice system for the rich and another justice system for
       | people like Assange
        
       | bsd44 wrote:
       | Media Lens wrote about this in July and it was also posted here
       | on HN: https://www.medialens.org/2021/a-remarkable-silence-media-
       | bl...
        
         | graedus wrote:
         | HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27710075
        
       | dane-pgp wrote:
       | > Sigurdur Thordarson, a key witness for the FBI against Julian
       | Assange, has been jailed in Iceland. ... Thordarson was given
       | immunity by the FBI in exchange for testimony against Julian
       | Assange.
       | 
       | I wonder if this witness's motivation for testifying will factor
       | into the decision of the High Court when it hears the Biden
       | administration's appeal of the rejection of their extradition
       | request.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > I wonder if this witness's motivation for testifying will
         | factor into the decision of the High Court when it hears the
         | Biden administration's appeal of the rejection of their
         | extradition request.
         | 
         | Is there a cross-appeal or does the Court consider the case _de
         | novo_? Because the lower court found the standards for a basis
         | for extradition were met, but that the US could not provide
         | adequate guarantees against Assange taking his own life;
         | without a cross-appeal or _de novo_ review, the basic standards
         | shouldn 't be relitigated on appeal.
        
           | dane-pgp wrote:
           | Good point, thank you. According to a recent update, the
           | appeal will be heard on October 27-28 and will cover five
           | grounds for appeal:
           | 
           | https://assangedefense.org/hearing-coverage/u-s-allowed-
           | to-e...
        
         | LatteLazy wrote:
         | It's not likely, one of the wonders of the UK extradition
         | process to the US is that the US doesn't need to produce
         | evidence for extradition, they just need "reasonable
         | suspicion". This isn't true the other way around...
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_tr...
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | That treaty was an actual act of vassalage, nevermind the EU
           | stuff.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-10-09 23:01 UTC)