[HN Gopher] Iceland stops using Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
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Iceland stops using Moderna Covid-19 vaccine
Author : busymom0
Score : 43 points
Date : 2021-10-08 21:24 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www-visir-is.translate.goog)
(TXT) w3m dump (www-visir-is.translate.goog)
| OrvalWintermute wrote:
| I don't think we understand the true legal ramifications yet, of
| forcing an experimental vaccine on so many. We knew about the
| pericarditis, the myocarditis, the blood clots, and the
| autoimmune disorders, the deaths, they are well documented in
| VAERS, even if massively undercounted.
|
| And yet, our political class did not stop
|
| Then Delta emerged, and vaccine efficacy dropped wholesale. Work
| was made conditional based on jabs. Science became a mantra, but
| in actuality it was ignored as the strong evidence for natural
| immunity was silenced. Bigtech previcated, and floundered,
| attaching notes to obituaries and criticism. Disinformation
| replaced information, as vaxxes were pushed on those with de
| minimis risk of covid, the 18 year olds without co-morbidities
| with 1 in 5 million chances of dying.
|
| And yet, our political class did not stop.
|
| Now, other democracies with medical systems in many cases
| matching our own are halting some of the vaccine distribution. It
| looks like the Chinese with their attenuated vaccines definitely
| had a better approach. But there is still an active mandate in
| several sectors of the economy, and an unconstituional campaign
| to deny religious exemptions that will likely eviscerate
| employment. Nurses are leaving in droves rather than vaccinate,
| having seen the side effects up close and personal.
|
| When will our political class stop?
|
| I sincerely believe we are ahead of the curve on a wave of class
| action lawsuits the likes of which this country has never seen.
| Tobacco, Asbestos, and every other toxic substances could pale in
| comparison to the potential payouts from the deaths, injuries,
| and reduced longevity coming from these leaky, toxic vaccines.
| margalabargala wrote:
| >forcing an experimental vaccine on so many
|
| I'm not aware of an experimental vaccine being forced on
| anyone, can you provide an example?
|
| Back when all vaccines were operating under an EUA and were
| experimental, there were zero vaccine mandates.
|
| After a vaccine was fully approved and shown to be
| unequivocally safe and effective, it was then no longer
| experimental. Mandating vaccines that are shown to be effective
| and safe is as old as the USA is as a country, and this is no
| outlier.
| bjt2n3904 wrote:
| Yeah, it wasn't forced on anyone! Nobody grabbed you and held
| you down and injected you... You just couldn't travel, go out
| in public, work at your job, or send your kids to school
| without it.
|
| Totally voluntary.
| margalabargala wrote:
| What country are you in that disallowed being in public
| without a vaccine? That didn't happen anywhere in the US
| that I'm aware of.
|
| As for the rest, again, mandating vaccination is something
| the US has been doing over and over since the year 1777.
| This is nothing new.
|
| The parent claimed that this vaccine mandate was
| specifically paired with the vaccine still being in an
| experimental state, which to my knowledge is not the case.
| bjt2n3904 wrote:
| Mandates are totally not happening!
|
| But if they are, it's not in the US.
|
| And if it is in the US, there's legal precedent, and
| totally valid.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| what vaccine was out in 1777? or do you mean 1776 + 1?
| iammisc wrote:
| There is no fully approved vaccine available in the United
| States.
|
| Most working people now need one to work or they face
| termination as loss of livelihood
|
| Stop pretending it's not required. We're not all trust
| finders.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > There is no fully approved vaccine available in the
| United States.
|
| Comirnaty (Pfizer-BioNTech) is fully approved for those 16
| and over, and has been since late August.
| margalabargala wrote:
| You're mistaken. The Pfizer vaccine is fully approved and
| available in the United States. Source:
| https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-
| appr...
|
| I never claimed it wasn't required, just that what was
| required was not experimental.
| colechristensen wrote:
| Unequivocal? There is literally no doubt as to the "safety"?
| That is demonstratively not true. On several occasions,
| several of the vaccines have been halted by several separate
| health authorities over safety concerns. That is not zero
| doubt. This story is about exactly that.
|
| You have to come up with a definition of "experimental" that
| suits you, and "emergency authorization" doesn't sound like
| very well tested and understood.
|
| People don't understand risks very well nor can they compare
| risks very well and that has been demonstrated over and over
| again.
|
| Covid vs vaccine risks vary quite a lot depending on what
| kind of person you are.
|
| If you are quite old or have significant health problems, it
| is pretty easy to demonstrate with high confidence that the
| vaccine risk is way smaller than the Covid risk (many orders
| of magnitude).
|
| If you are very young (say a healthy teenager) the Covid risk
| is very low and the uncertainties of the vaccine risks start
| to compete where it is much harder to have confidence that
| for a population vaccinating is a better idea. People also
| can have different appetites for risk and different appetites
| for the good of the individual vs the good of the many.
|
| The problems with vaccination are many people pretend they
| are perfect or evil who are either knowingly distorting the
| truth or repeating lies or dogma. Also many people desire
| authorization solutions for everyone to agree with them.
|
| What is actually needed are attempts to accurately represent
| risks and unknowns, and comparisons of those risks and
| unknowns which update over time as the unknowns get smaller.
| There also needs to be the ability to acknowledge that a
| crossover point may exist where on one side one decision may
| be better than on the other.
|
| People though are being used to turn any contentious issue
| into political dogma and opportunities to signal morality.
|
| The situation is not as simple as you and many people make
| it.
| orra wrote:
| > Then Delta emerged, and vaccine efficacy dropped wholesale.
|
| This is bollocks.
|
| Pre-Delta, if double vaccinated the vaccines are about 95%
| effective against severe illness and death. Post Delta, about
| 92%.
|
| That's still incredible, and actually pretty high as vaccines
| go.
| stock_toaster wrote:
| Further, even in cases of "breakthrough" infection, mortality
| rate is significantly reduced with the vaccine vs
| unvaccinated. I think people just assume that a
| "breakthrough" means "didn't work", but that isn't
| necessarily the case!
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| Yup!
|
| Breakthrough infection and breakthrough disease are
| entirely different things.
|
| Ask any ICU nurse what percentage of their COVID patients
| are unvaccinated. Every article I've seen reports at least
| 90% are unvaccinated, and of the remaining 10% that were,
| they were either very old or had a severe immune
| deficiency.
| monksy wrote:
| Depends on the vaccine you're referring to. Pfizer dropped
| quite a bit.
|
| This is the CDC study that confirmed this (plus
| summarization): https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1436389
| 153533464597?la... This cross validates the finding from the
| MN DPH and Israel MOH report on pfizer from June.
|
| Moderna came on top with a VE of 95% under delta.
|
| If you didn't read this: You should still be vaccinated. If
| you're under Pfizer wear KN95s, KF94s, and N95s. This not an
| arguement against vaccination.
| paganel wrote:
| Vaccine is the only thing that can (and does) make this
| pandemic manageable. I write this comment from Bucharest, where
| vaccine hesitancy (among other factors) have made it so that
| only about 30% of the adult population is vaccinated. We have
| ambulance queues in front of most of the Covid hospitals,
| patients are "deposited" (for lack of a better word) on
| hospital hallways, the luckier ones on make-shift beds, the
| more recent ones on chairs, hanging on to an oxygen tube
| between their legs. Almost all the other European countries
| have higher vaccination rates than us, they do not have our
| current problems.
| stock_toaster wrote:
| Autotranslated article, and really thin on details.
|
| A confusing passage:
|
| > According to the [Chief Epidemiologist], the Moderna vaccine
| has for the past two months been used almost exclusively here for
| stimulation vaccinations after the Janssen vaccine and after two-
| dose vaccinations for the elderly and immunocompromised. Very few
| individuals are said to have received the second dose of the
| basic vaccine that started with Moderna.
|
| Any Icelandic readers here? Is my reading correct that they were
| using Moderna as a booster after a vaccination with either
| Janssen or a two shot series of Phizer?
| graeme wrote:
| I read that a few times and yes, came to the same conclusion as
| you. Moderna as a booster after either J and J or two dose
| series (which were both moderna and pfizer or az)
| aazaa wrote:
| > According to the epidemiologist, the Moderna vaccine has for
| the past two months been used almost exclusively here for
| stimulation vaccinations after the Janssen vaccine and after two-
| dose vaccinations for the elderly and immunocompromised. Very few
| individuals are said to have received the second dose of the
| basic vaccine that started with Moderna.
|
| Assuming the translation is correct, this could be a problem in
| itself. I'm unaware of a single study on the safety or efficacy
| of mixing vaccine types like this.
| solarpunk wrote:
| I think there's like a half-dozen countries doing heterologous
| vaccination regimens. Here's a Wikipedia link about it
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccine_clinical_re...
| stinky613 wrote:
| The part that confuses me the most is that the two 'vaccine
| side effects' in question are the swelling of muscles in or
| around the heart... But side effects of (even mild[1]) COVID
| infections include _damage_ to muscles in or around the heart.
|
| It seems like halting the use of a flu vaccine because of the
| flu vaccine causing flu-like symptoms.
|
| [1]https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-
| conditions/coronavirus/i...
| grillvogel wrote:
| it almost seems like we needed to wait to get more data before
| forcing people to take experimental vaccines in order to keep
| their employment
| bongcloud420 wrote:
| FoLlOw ThE sCiEnCe
| Lammy wrote:
| Are we already into 2027 on the SPARS timeline? Hopefully that
| means this will be over soon and we can all stop hating each
| other quite so much :)
| https://stars.library.ucf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=10...
| [deleted]
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(page generated 2021-10-08 23:01 UTC)