[HN Gopher] Computer game play reduces intrusive memories of exp...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Computer game play reduces intrusive memories of experimental
       trauma (2015)
        
       Author : tnorthcutt
       Score  : 167 points
       Date   : 2021-10-08 14:34 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
        
       | CarbonJ wrote:
       | There's some overlap here with the therapy technique called EMDR
       | (used to treat acute PTSD). Both EMDR and the Tetris study
       | involve thinking about the traumatic event while experiencing
       | bilateral stimulation.
       | 
       | Studies on bilateral stimulation look really promising as a tool
       | to manage trauma:
       | 
       | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5061320/ (note the
       | before / after section)
        
         | skim_milk wrote:
         | I haven't considered Tetris, but I'm researching the effects of
         | Osu! (a rhythm game that requires heavy eye-movement and
         | tapping) on people's public speaking anxiety. I can pretty
         | conclusively show that people who stream with the tag
         | "Depression" and "Anxiety" on Twitch speak considerably more
         | while playing Osu! compared to other games - sort of like this
         | paper but with live streamers
         | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26100455/ - my interpretation
         | of my data is that people streaming with tags that suggest they
         | are more likely to experience speaking anxiety, speak more
         | while playing games that require heavy bilateral stimulation
         | because they are desensitized to their anxiety.
         | 
         | Is there anyone else looking at or any other material on the
         | subject of EMDR + video games? I can't find anything on the
         | subject, which is kind of ridiculous considering how obvious
         | the link is.
        
           | ZeroGravitas wrote:
           | A theory I found plausible was that EMDR was the brain
           | rewarding you for moving away from a stressful situation, and
           | the eye darting is something you do while moving through a
           | physical space.
           | 
           | This made me think of the various games that move through 3D
           | space. Interesting that Tetris also triggers this.
        
           | rpmisms wrote:
           | Beatsaber (Osu! but in VR, essentially), has a similar effect
           | on me. I just... let go. It's really cool to see research to
           | this effect.
        
       | ethbr0 wrote:
       | Hmm. I'm guessing we're not talking about playing Resident Evil,
       | Silent Hill, Half-Life, STALKER, etc here.
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | No. The research used Tetris. Their conclusions are likely to
         | generalize to other similar visual/spatial puzzle games (like,
         | say, Bejeweled), but probably not to more realistic games.
        
       | dragonwriter wrote:
       | Note this is specific to _Tetris_ (and probably generalizes to
       | very similar tasks, but is unlikely to generalize to computer
       | games _generally_.)
        
       | omginternets wrote:
       | >We investigated whether reconsolidation--the process during
       | which memories become malleable when recalled--can be blocked
       | using a cognitive task and whether such an approach can reduce
       | these unbidden intrusions.
       | 
       | It seems like there's nothing "special" about video games, here,
       | and that anything that sustains attention over a period of hours
       | ought to work. A few decades ago, this might have been prayer,
       | for example. I would expect reading and coding to work as well.
        
       | Arisaka1 wrote:
       | Since everyone is posting their anecdata here's mine having to
       | deal with chronic pain and the stress of lacking a diagnosis for
       | its cause:
       | 
       | Video games distract me like a cat gets distracted by the laser
       | pointer. And when it's time to go to bed and get a shut eye all
       | my worries, anxieties about the pain and unemployment come
       | flooding in and I haven't slept more than 5 hours for months. And
       | when I was younger games helped me with the lack of friends and
       | cope with stuff like my parents being divorce and getting
       | bullied. My grades fell apart too.
       | 
       | So yeah, video games like all other reality escapes work, but if
       | you ask me I'd rather get a diagnosis, a treatment and a job than
       | shove my face in the next big game release again. I'd rather play
       | video games the same way a casual/social drinker drinks alcohol,
       | and not like someone doing it to avoid something that's painful.
        
       | FooBarBizBazz wrote:
       | This word "trauma" is really fucking trendy right now. Whenever a
       | thing like this starts, I want to know -- how did it get started?
       | Who was the first person to push this?
       | 
       | Seems to me that it sort of started with legit PTSD from
       | Iraq/Afghanistan war veterans after 9/11. And then it got taken
       | up for a little in some feminist circles -- first like, "women
       | who've been raped have PTSD", and then "a bad date leaves you
       | with PTSD", and then, "to be born outside the privileged
       | categories gives you PTSD" (so you can be forgiven for whatever
       | bizarre behavior). But then it died down. Until recently, when
       | there was a big resurgence on a bunch of news outlets -- "trauma,
       | trauma, trauma".
       | 
       | I wish I could trace this meme backwards to the source.
       | 
       | Clearly people think they can get an advantage out of this idea.
        
         | ZeroGravitas wrote:
         | etymonline suggest 'Trauma' moved from it's more literal
         | meaning of 'wound' to encompass 'psychic wound, unpleasant
         | experience which causes abnormal stress' around 1894.
        
       | Razengan wrote:
       | Escaping to new worlds helps you feel better than a shitty
       | reality.
        
         | devilduck wrote:
         | Anecdotal, but there is a middle ground with something like
         | ketamine therapy, where you induce dissociate consciously (and
         | the external reality has an almost alien feeling) and it allows
         | you to have all kinds of thoughts, some of which can be pretty
         | unpleasant, but without the intense and immediate emotional
         | reactions to those thoughts. In the past it has allowed me to
         | work through issues with far less discomfort.
        
       | filthylurker wrote:
       | What exactly is experimental trauma?
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | (1) Research on this has consistently used "Tetris"; who knows if
       | you'd get the same effect from, say, "Xenoblade Chronicles".
       | (e.g. people might not manage the controls, get sufficiently
       | engaged, etc.)
       | 
       | (2) "Experimental Trauma" looks like a problem for the Human
       | Subjects Review Board. I've been thinking about a weight loss
       | plan based on inducing a psychogenic fever but I think it would
       | be too rough on people.
        
         | pdpi wrote:
         | This sentence from the abstract basically covers your first
         | point:
         | 
         | > We predicted that reconsolidation of a reactivated visual
         | memory of experimental trauma could be disrupted by engaging in
         | a visuospatial task that would compete for visual working
         | memory resources
         | 
         | The fact that it was a video game wasn't the important part,
         | and completely different styles of game wouldn't have triggered
         | the mechanism they're proposing. From what they're saying, I'd
         | sooner expect things like or Sudoku or Minesweeper to work,
         | rather than Xenoblade Chronicles.
        
           | slothtrop wrote:
           | "visuospatial tasks" describe like 99% of video games, XB is
           | just on the more mindless side
        
             | PaulHoule wrote:
             | My wife would make fun of me because I'd play
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_of_Xillia
             | 
             | with all of my characters on autopilot.
        
         | taneq wrote:
         | Pretty sure 10 years ago WoW would have worked. I know plenty
         | of people who were hiding in that world from something IRL.
         | 
         | > I've been thinking about a weight loss plan based on inducing
         | a psychogenic fever but I think it would be too rough on
         | people.
         | 
         | Have you considered just... not feeding them? We know that
         | works.
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | Not feeding people is stressful for the whole experience.
           | 
           | The psychogenic fever seems to have effects that last for at
           | least a month (you're not that quick to refeed) but it is
           | only stressful (but extremely so) when you initiate the
           | experience.
           | 
           | We've managed to initiate it in two people a small number of
           | times but we're nowhere near a protocol that would be
           | repeatable.
        
             | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
             | How do you induce this fever? And how long does the fever
             | last?
        
               | PaulHoule wrote:
               | The best method I know is "have a fight with your
               | spouse".
               | 
               | If you have a good imagination you can amplify your
               | emotions and reach a "fever pitch" even if you don't have
               | anything real to fight it.
               | 
               | This raises both of our body temperatures for about 48
               | hours, I lose about 5 kg over the next two weeks (the
               | weight loss continues after the fever is not noticeable)
               | and kept it off.
               | 
               | If I were trying to make it repeatable I'd assemble an
               | encounter group and either have the group gang up on an
               | individual or create a moral injury situation, maybe both
               | at the same time. (e.g. the latter is the most repeatable
               | way to produce harmful stress but the damage is also
               | enduring, if somebody who was in the crowd felt guilty
               | about participating or being complicit in the bullying
               | that's the worst kind of stress you could give someone.)
               | 
               | https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS221
               | 5-0...
               | 
               | Tibetans claim to have a way to do it.
               | 
               | I have gotten uncomfortably hot when I visualized a
               | phoenix and merged it with my avatar in the physical
               | world but I tested it and it doesn't raise my core
               | temperature.
               | 
               | It is very easy to use biofeedback to control your
               | peripheral temperature (that's what a "mood ring" is good
               | for) but core temperature is harder. I measure core
               | temperature with a thermometer that goes under my tongue
               | but maybe I could get one of those in-ear thermometers to
               | be wearable in a meditation session.
        
               | TeaDrunk wrote:
               | Um, this sounds dangerous and unhelpful in actually
               | making long-term lifestyle and relationship with food
               | changes necessary in losing weight and keeping weight
               | off.
               | 
               | Additionally, ganging up on an individual explicitly as a
               | weight loss plan sounds like a great way to develop an
               | eating disorder, given that simple exposure to the
               | pressures of instagram is known to do this to girls.
        
               | PaulHoule wrote:
               | That's why I don't think it is ethical to do that kind of
               | research.
        
               | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
               | Yeah, it seems like it would be far more effective just
               | to count calories instead of enduring emotional abuse. I
               | had a bad relationship where I lost weight as well, but
               | that was because it was an unhealthy one that cause a lot
               | of emotional harm.
        
       | GoblinSlayer wrote:
       | Well, computer games are literally made to distract, and mmorpg
       | are even worse: they will outright hog your attention for
       | themselves.
        
       | zozin wrote:
       | Shouldn't the goal be to deal with the psychological trauma
       | rather than engaging in activities that suppress memories of the
       | trauma?
       | 
       | During the pandemic I went down the rabbit hole of the fitness
       | industry. You will find thousands of videos on YouTube/memes on
       | forums that teach people that they can get over an ex by just
       | focusing on getting shredded and developing a killer physique. To
       | me that is akin to what this study suggests: avoid the trauma by
       | distracting yourself with another activity. While self-
       | improvement is commendable, I don't think avoidance tactics are
       | the best way to treat the root cause of the problem though.
        
         | mellosouls wrote:
         | You can only deal with psychological issues on a long term
         | basis from a position of relative calm, which isn't going to be
         | the case when the sufferer is in crisis.
         | 
         | Distraction (like medication) is a tool that can help the
         | individual get their head above water in those moments, but,
         | yes, presumably that wouldn't be the end goal.
        
         | moron4hire wrote:
         | Sometimes you have to treat the symptoms so you can get the
         | person functional enough to then start treating the root cause.
         | For example, this is the point of anti-depressants and fever-
         | reducing medication. They don't treat the underlying disease.
         | They just keep the symptoms from killing the patient long
         | enough to do something about the disease.
         | 
         | A person with particularly bad PTSD may not want to see a
         | therapist and start rooting around in those bad memories. If
         | the overall anxiety level associated with those memories can be
         | reduced, then maybe the therapy can start.
        
         | kayodelycaon wrote:
         | That assumes the person currently has the capacity to deal with
         | it. In my own experience, trauma can be too overwhelming.
         | 
         | Medication or other interventions may be required before
         | therapy techniques become effective. Video games have fewer
         | side effects than anti-depressants and aren't physically
         | addictive like tranquilizers.
        
         | amitport wrote:
         | I think there has been a pradigm shift in this regard in the
         | last decade.
         | 
         | It really used to be about "dealing" with trauma. Now AFAIKT
         | many psychologists believe that the end result matters the
         | most. If you suppressed your trauma and now you feel fine and
         | functioning, who cares? This is especially true for sever
         | trauma, whatever works works, suppersion is OK. (We have plenty
         | of lifetime examples. e g., Many Holocaust survivors and
         | veterns who actively run away from reliving or even thinking
         | about their experience, and conducted an healthy life)
         | 
         | I'm not saying someone should avoid treatment, only that we
         | should not dismiss suppression as an illegitimate tool. It
         | works for many (not for all of course).
        
           | cf100clunk wrote:
           | This.
           | 
           | Sometimes it is perfectly fine to not lift every stone to see
           | what is crawling underneath, and quite alright to let
           | sleeping dogs lie. The operative word is "sometimes", and a
           | professional counsellor might help define when that
           | "sometime" strategy is best applied. It is not avoidance; it
           | is strategic limiting of analysis.
        
         | artificialLimbs wrote:
         | Sounds like they are actively encouraging suppression. I don't
         | believe this will lead to 'Good'(tm) things. The way to
         | properly deal with trauma, if one wants to heal psychologically
         | and disable the 'intrusive' memories, is to actively encourage
         | the recall of those memories until they become so unexciting
         | that they no longer have a reactive emotional component.
         | 
         | Depending on the magnitude of the trauma, this may not be an
         | exercise one does by oneself, and in one sitting. It could take
         | some time. That I know of, directly related in the western
         | psychological world is one such technique called 'exposure
         | therapy'.
         | 
         | The repression suggested in this study will guarantee that the
         | emotional reaction will come roaring back to the surface when
         | some strange, probably unrelated situation triggers the memory
         | once again.
         | 
         | I've had 3 instances of extreme trauma in my life. After the
         | 3rd, I heard about this technique. It has been completely
         | transformative for me. N=1 and all that...
        
           | amitport wrote:
           | Glad it works for you, but doesn't sound like a generally
           | applicabale approach.
           | 
           | I really disagree with a couple of your statements: "The way
           | to properly deal with trauma" there really isn't a proper way
           | imo. Individuals have different ways.
           | 
           | "will guarantee that the emotional reaction will come roaring
           | back to the surface when some strange, probably unrelated
           | situation triggers the memory once again." Not really true,
           | not always. People do successfully repress, and some people
           | have a really negative experience from treatments like the
           | one you suggested.
           | 
           | People are different and their experiences are different.
        
         | pope_meat wrote:
         | I think sometimes it might be necessary to create a bit of a
         | buffer between the truama and "dealing with it." When it's
         | still fresh it can be hard to regulate one's emotional state,
         | and it's nigh impossible to "deal" when the thoughts of the
         | situation/event send you in to a really bad emotional state of
         | panic and endless rumination because you either lack the tools
         | for emotional regulation, or utilizing them doesn't even come
         | to mind in the first place. A mind under psychological distress
         | is a messy dark place, and only after the fact do you look back
         | on things and wonder why you spent such a long time suffering
         | instead of working yourself out of it.
        
           | artificialLimbs wrote:
           | Some do need to escape from the reality to get a bit of
           | relief, and can't handle the confrontation directly too much.
           | That is understandable.
           | 
           | But, the panic/anxiety surrounding the trauma after the fact
           | is often due to resistance of experiencing the
           | emotions/memories associated with the event. Allowing the
           | 'bad' feelings in and going through those feelings is most
           | always going to be healing.
        
         | egypturnash wrote:
         | I've gone through some traumatic shit and some of it just could
         | _not_ be dealt with _until_ I had gained some distance from it.
         | It does still need to be dealt with eventually but it helps a
         | ton if it 's not something that actively makes you want to curl
         | up into a ball and hide every time you think about it.
         | 
         | Ultimately, sure, you need to sit down and open up the vault
         | you've put this pain in and deal with it. But it's a lot easier
         | if you don't get consumed in a wave of remembered fear and
         | stress every time you even _think_ about touching that vault.
         | This article suggests that distracting yourself with Tetris
         | soon after the painful experience helps avoid that happening.
        
       | cat199 wrote:
       | Interesting, and I can definitely see this for tetris, but I
       | doubt you'd get the same result throwing a veteran with PTSD into
       | an FPS .. probably needs a few more experiments to yield
       | conclusion in the title.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | I remember when dealing with depression an felt like I didn't
       | have control of my thoughts at times. Doctor told me to "do what
       | you liked to do before it was this way, even if you don't like
       | doing it now".
       | 
       | For me that was video games. So I played final fantasy and other
       | games a great deal and found that the issues I was thinking of
       | often did start to fade over time.
       | 
       | I don't know if it was the fact that the task required my
       | attention so much or a sort of zen experience I could get with
       | the game ... or just time passing, but it felt like it worked.
       | 
       | The only downside I felt was how not "in the world" I was at that
       | time. Not really socializing much and etc in favor of drowning
       | myself in video games.
       | 
       | Ultimately I think it helped me cope, but I also was aware that
       | it was a very alluring sort of way of life to work, school,
       | escape into video games, and nothing else.
        
         | musingsole wrote:
         | Seems to me it's retraining the network that it is sufficiently
         | far from the source of the trauma which can't happen until
         | experiences fill in -- not to be confused with just time
         | passing; experiences are the unit of time in the mind
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | Treatment depression by engaging in activities that promoye
         | depression is certainly risky.
        
         | GoblinSlayer wrote:
         | I guess final fantasy is also not exactly depressive.
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | I haven't really been able to play it since, although I think
           | that has been more about the evolution of the series turning
           | into a more ... teen drama as far as maturity goes.
           | 
           | It was never drama free, lots of personal stories and
           | reflections, but it felt like those topics were somewhat more
           | balanced against a larger story / mature / etc. After a while
           | everything seemed to get more immature / sappy / etc.
        
         | antisthenes wrote:
         | I did this after a traumatic brain injury, and ended up playing
         | too much video games, neglecting other aspects of my health.
         | 
         | Can't say that overall it was a net positive experience,
         | although it did get my mind off the trauma and the traumatic
         | memory and it did help moderately with depression (I am not
         | depressed now, about a year later)
         | 
         | > Ultimately I think it helped me cope, but I also was aware
         | that it was a very alluring sort of way of life to work,
         | school, escape into video games, and nothing else.
         | 
         | Ah yes, that's generally the conclusion I came to as well. I'm
         | scaling it down as of this moment, personally.
        
       | akeck wrote:
       | Jane McGonigal is another person doing work in this space.
       | 
       | [1] https://janemcgonigal.com/
        
       | tnorthcutt wrote:
       | Linking the twitter thread I originally stumbled across this
       | from: https://twitter.com/jelenawoehr/status/1445993073494749187
       | 
       | And an article that looks like it's covering the same or similar
       | research: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
       | shots/2017/04/09/5230114...
        
       | lupire wrote:
       | The study studied the intervention against "experimental trauma
       | film" which I think means watching a horrific movie? Not real
       | traumatic experiences.
        
       | Trasmatta wrote:
       | I had a very traumatic experience at the start of 2020. I
       | remembered reading studies like this in the past, so after it
       | happened I played Tetris on my Switch for a couple of hours.
       | 
       | While I did deal with high levels of anxiety for a few months
       | after, I haven't dealt with flashbacks or intrusive memories at
       | all. At this point it feels like a distant memory that I don't
       | really think about at all anymore.
       | 
       | N of 1, but it seemed to help in my case. When possible, I plan
       | to do the same following traumatic events in the future.
        
         | tnorthcutt wrote:
         | That's really great! Glad to hear you'd heard about this prior
         | to the experience and were able to successfully utilize it.
        
           | Trasmatta wrote:
           | Thank you! I'd definitely recommend people keep it in mind as
           | an option for potential future experiences, and to try Tetris
           | specifically, because that's what the studies seem to all
           | use.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | celticninja wrote:
         | I honestly have the same studies in my mind and the same plan
         | of action should I ever be subjected to a traumatic experience
         | that warrants it. So well done you, glad it worked
        
         | pdpi wrote:
         | > N of 1, but it seemed to help in my case.
         | 
         | All things considered, I think I'd rather not find out if it
         | helps in my case :(
        
         | fendy3002 wrote:
         | There was a reason behind "tetris effect" after all. Our way of
         | thinking during playing video games is really different than
         | when we're irl.
        
       | motohagiography wrote:
       | Even though there is controversy around his ideas, I have an
       | armchair theory about why this study yielded plausibly successful
       | results, and it's that Maslow's "peak experiences [0] provides a
       | framework for it.
       | 
       | The armchair premise is that we naturally orient our identity and
       | sense of self according to memorable experiences, and as a
       | consequence, our most intense experiences (good or bad) tend to
       | become a constant reference point for who are believe we are.
       | 
       | High and low watermarks in our life become defining to an
       | identity, which our ego then adopts and does its job to defend it
       | (the self) from all threats. You can "become," the trauma, and
       | your sense of self, via the mechanism of ego, protects the
       | integrity of that identity against all potential threats to it -
       | even though the experience isn't _you_. Video games in this study
       | enabled a kind of re-basing of identity from the experimental
       | trauma by providing an equivalent or greater intense experience
       | which memory and identity can rebind to. It 's also possibly why
       | psychedelics are thought to "cure" depression, because by using
       | an intense experience to rebase your identity on memories other
       | than the negative ones, you in-effect redirect your ego to
       | protect the right thing about your true self instead of it
       | reinforcing the negative experience that had substituted itself
       | into your identity because it was so intense.
       | 
       | Utter armchair mind hacking, but it's testable. We can treat the
       | ego as a kind of clutch mechanism where you can disengage it to
       | switch gears, and re-engage it to apply the will of self.
       | Intensity disengages it.
       | 
       | If you rethink depression as a kind of mental autoimmune disorder
       | where the defense mechanism for your sense of self (ego) turns
       | its aggression inward, a super intense experience can unbind the
       | ego from that identity long enough for your true self to re-
       | establish its primacy. Suicidal ideation in that framework is a
       | craving for that level of replacement intensity, and not
       | necessarily death itself, just something intense enough to
       | release your ego long enough to switch gears.
       | 
       | Jumping out of a plane, graduating university, having a kid,
       | winning an award, are all examples of positive peak experiences
       | people remember as reference points to locate their sense of
       | self.
       | 
       | What I'm suggesting is the implied underlying mechanism behind
       | the study could be applied more generally to developing more
       | controlled peak experiences that "blow your mind," in a way that
       | dislodges the ego defence long enough that you can overpower a
       | traumatic memory with a current more intense one, so when your
       | ego re-establishes itself, it is protecting the integrity of the
       | new experience as a rebased identity.
       | 
       | Crankery, probably, but if you do find a way to blow your mind
       | and it improves your outlook, video games are fun, but I think we
       | need to find more things that really blow minds.
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_experience
        
       | nathanasmith wrote:
       | I play Half Life 2 to ease depression since I won't tolerate the
       | side effects of SSRI medication. It's the only video game I play
       | and I've beaten it literally hundreds of time. I can fly through
       | the whole thing in about 4 hours on the hardest setting I've
       | played it so much. I don't know why it works and I don't want to
       | even poke at it lest it stop working but when I have an "episode"
       | where everything goes gray I just fire the game up and start
       | waxing head crabs. Pretty soon I'm right as rain.
       | 
       | As an addendum, the only thing I don't like about my M1 Mac is
       | HL2 doesn't work on it other than through Crossover Office and
       | even then it's extremely glitchy. If anybody has suggestions to
       | get it running well I'm all eyes.
        
       | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
       | Playing videogames is another drug with which to escape reality.
       | But at least it gives you something to do rather than spending
       | all your time dwelling in depression, which is why I have around
       | 2800 hours playing Heroes of the Storm.
       | 
       | My experience has been that negative thoughts and memories are
       | less likely to occur while playing, especially if you have to
       | communicate verbally with teammates in order to succeed.
       | 
       | Making creative works using your hands is another non-digital
       | outlet which keeps the mind focused.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, it's not really a permanent solution as intrusive
       | thought and memories begin to show up during downtime.
        
         | singlow wrote:
         | Working with your hands is the original digital activity ;-)
        
         | vlunkr wrote:
         | > Playing videogames is another drug with which to escape
         | reality.
         | 
         | "Escaping reality" is as old as humanity, I don't see why we
         | need to think of it as a drug, or even a negative thing. Are
         | books drugs? movies? plays? stories told around a fire? Video
         | games are just the latest (really awesome) iteration of that.
         | 
         | Obviously there are some disclaimers. Some games are designed
         | like a drug, or like gambling, and some people are more
         | susceptible to addiction. But I think in general, we need to
         | stop feeling guitly about taking part in something that we
         | enjoy.
        
           | basq wrote:
           | After some very long bouts of self reflection, I've found
           | that I have 4 primary emotional needs: social connection,
           | satisfaction derived from accomplishment, breadth of
           | information to learn, and excitation (something that gets my
           | heard pumping and the adrenaline flowing).
           | 
           | Most things in my life that I occupy my free time with can
           | meet those needs, art and music fill the first three,
           | programming meets the middle two, but only gaming fills the
           | 'excited' factor. I have yet to find any other activity that
           | isn't dangerous which gives me the same rush as winning a
           | game of dota2 or overwatch (or what have you). What's more,
           | games not only fulfill my need for excitement, they also
           | fulfill -all- of the aforementioned needs to a decent degree.
           | Sure, I won't feel as accomplished finishing a setup in
           | factorio as I would finishing a piece of music, but the
           | difference really isn't all that great. And for breadth of
           | knowledge? Games are designed to be grok-able, whereas many
           | more existential domains are full of hard or nuanced
           | problems. Lastly, (multiplayer) games are just as social as
           | my other life pursuits if not more so.
           | 
           | Guess what I'm saying is that I've had trouble finding a
           | suitable replacement for games, they really can serve as an
           | omni-activity. Despite all that, they still give me a fair
           | portion of guilt when I devote time to them. I can only
           | assume that is my parents' sensibilities which have been
           | ingrained into my conscience. As a result I've quit them
           | multiple times, and the jury's still out as to whether I
           | personally view them as a vice that needs to be severely
           | moderated, but what keeps me coming back is that need for a
           | rush. Nothing else gives it to me in such a balance of low
           | risk / high reward.
        
             | nkingsy wrote:
             | Nicely put, and this is exactly what I dislike about video
             | games. Adrenaline pumps, my heart goes crazy, I sweat and
             | grip the controller till my hands turn white, and I feel
             | totally overloaded.
             | 
             | Put me on a mountain bike on a crazy descent, in REAL
             | danger, and those same fears lead me to the highest highs.
             | 
             | Maybe it's just the cadence. I want 5-10 minutes of intense
             | fear focus followed by good long period of relative safety
             | to bask in the conquest, but video games just keep pouring
             | shot after shot of adrenaline.
             | 
             | Not a scientist, but it feels like what I want is
             | endorphins -> adrenaline + endorphins -> endorphins, and
             | what video games gives me is adrenaline + endorphins ->
             | adrenaline + endorphines -> arenaline + endorphins
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | Also when it comes to video game addiction it's always just
           | psychological addiction, not actual physical addiction. Often
           | correlated with stress or boredom, and when that's removed
           | it's usually not too hard to adjust back from what I've seen.
        
         | Pet_Ant wrote:
         | But just like Ativan in gives you an out when it's overwhelming
         | and other coping mechanisms aren't working.
        
           | sinsterizme wrote:
           | Umm except benzos are incredibly dangerous to take for any
           | extended period. Stay away from them
        
         | abledon wrote:
         | have you considered going through the HealthyGamerGG coaching
         | program or doing their course?
        
         | scollet wrote:
         | > Playing videogames is another drug with which to escape
         | reality
         | 
         | Maybe the most trivial of games. Even naughts and crosses has
         | deeper implications than the physical mechanics.
         | 
         | Most games have a grand appreciation of reality like reading
         | Frankenstein or watching The Lighthouse.
         | 
         | Perhaps it's the low stakes context that makes them more
         | accessible, and thus informs our understanding of things
         | outside that context.
        
         | 9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote:
         | > Unfortunately, it's not really a permanent solution as
         | intrusive thought and memories begin to show up during
         | downtime.
         | 
         | Hospitals can definitely use it as a protocol to help prevent
         | or minimize the establishment of the traditional semi-permanent
         | traumatic stress disorders, though.
         | 
         | Traumatic stress can often cause depressive symptoms, but this
         | technique isn't directly addressing depression - it is
         | addressing the prevention of traumatic stress disorders in the
         | first 24 hours after a traumatic event.
        
         | fossuser wrote:
         | I've found it helps by forcing focus on a narrow task. In these
         | tests they used tetris, but rockband or guitar hero is similar
         | too.
         | 
         | There's some evidence to support anxiety being tied to
         | rumination, thought loops, hypervigilance and such. If you're
         | able to force yourself to focus on a narrow task I think that
         | can help relieve some of that in a way that lingers for a bit.
         | Makes it easier to reframe stuff.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > Playing videogames is another drug with which to escape
         | reality.
         | 
         | Perhaps, but that isn't what this research (and the related
         | research it builds on); this is about a specific kind of task (
         | _Tetris_ is the specific instance studied in this and some of
         | the other research, but there is some on closely related,
         | similar tasks) and how its use closely after traumatic events
         | prevents formation of intrusive memories from the trauma, and
         | how (combined with particular other techniques) it can disrupt
         | established intrusive memories from past trauma.
         | 
         | > Unfortunately, it's not really a permanent solution as
         | intrusive thought and memories begin to show up during
         | downtime.
         | 
         | In the form studied, it actually _is_ a solution with permanent
         | effects.
         | 
         | EDIT: " _Tetris_ is highly-effective, unsupervised, self-
         | applied first aid for psychic trauma" is actually a very big
         | deal (as is the supervised treatment result for established
         | trauma.)
        
         | hart_russell wrote:
         | Tangent: HOTS is a highly underrated MOBA. Mechanics that
         | people find too "casual" make the game more fun in my opinion.
        
           | FirstLvR wrote:
           | IMO the best moba out there right now, well balanced, the art
           | is great and the mechanics are fun
           | 
           | if you are fan of blizzard games then this is your game, most
           | of the known heroes are in the game trying to gank each other
        
           | thedespone wrote:
           | Agree on this one. Still playing this after getting into it
           | on college.
        
         | nverno wrote:
         | Physical outdoor work is another good activity for the mind.
        
         | thedespone wrote:
         | Good to read I am not the only one. Been depressed for a few
         | months now and HOTS (especially ARAM, which is really fast-
         | paced) helps me on the bad days to put my mind on ease. On the
         | bad days I always feel more relieved and less stressed after a
         | couple hours of HOTS. I hope Blizzard won't pull the plug on
         | this any time soon, till then: see you in the Nexus sir!
        
           | ammanley wrote:
           | I can relate to this, super happy HOTS is working for you!
           | Always love seeing another fan of the game, it feels
           | criminally like a missed opportunity for Blizzard. As a
           | chronic anxiety/depression patient, I sincerely hope this has
           | helped you stay afloat during the trying times life for been
           | for us lately. I'm curious, is the same therapeutic effect
           | present in League/DOTA for you, if by chance you've played
           | those before?
        
             | thedespone wrote:
             | Good to hear it's working for you too sir! I only tried
             | DOTA in college, so don't know about that. LoL I tried but
             | it wasn't that satisfying as HOTS though. Although my
             | preference was always HOTS over LoL. I can imagine LoL has
             | the same effects for someone who likes LoL better. I've met
             | others who gain the same results with completely different
             | games so I believe it all comes down to doing something you
             | enjoy.
        
         | phkahler wrote:
         | Diverting your attention doesn't help long-term. Read about
         | EMDR, it may be related to this video game concept. If so, the
         | effectiveness will depend on the game as well as how much you
         | engage the traumatic thoughts during play.
        
         | petesergeant wrote:
         | I've found freeciv to be totally immersive for me, which is
         | great for times when I'm feeling unwell, physically or
         | otherwise, and for travelling.
        
       | madrox wrote:
       | As someone who played video games a lot during their hospital
       | stays, this has the ring of truth. I have a lot of intrusive
       | memories but surprisingly 14 childhood surgeries aren't among
       | them now that I think on it.
        
       | oneepic wrote:
       | My anecdata to the contrary. I feel like I've spent about 6-8
       | hours of my day on average, playing videogames for the past >20
       | years (I know, healthy, right?), and even during gameplay I still
       | think of all the worst embarrassing moments at school and the
       | shit one of my parents put me through, and the mistakes I've made
       | at work... No doubt games have a suppressive effect pretty often,
       | but whatever my mental process is, those memories always end up
       | floating right back to the surface.
       | 
       | I think I'd add 2 suggestions (not a scientist, but I think
       | they're worth considering): 1) it matters whether your mind is
       | fully engaged in the game, or you have some room to bring in
       | these shitty memories (for example, I played quite a few idle
       | games, or MMOs that involved a lot of waiting) and 2) if you
       | still find yourself reliving this shit during gameplay, maybe
       | you're better off seeking other escapes (*let's not get
       | destructive though, ie cocaine/heroin/meth), or doing productive
       | things (sublimation in psychology) and slowly tackling this
       | problem yourself using gradual accomplishments, building your
       | confidence, breaking down events one piece at a time, etc.
        
         | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
         | I once saw something quite wise, which is the difference
         | between a self soothing and self numbing. Self soothing is an
         | activity you can do to handle a stressor you have at the moment
         | and then you can move on from. But if you have to continually
         | perform the behavior and never actually move on, you're just
         | numbing and putting off the processing part of pain/trauma.
        
         | jimbob45 wrote:
         | I have that same issue with playing the piano. I think the
         | problem is that your mind necessarily needs to flail around in
         | the creative process in order to progress unless you're playing
         | the simplest piece on the piano or Tetris on the computer. As
         | such, it becomes increasingly likely over time that your
         | creativity will stumble into something you didn't want to
         | relive and then everything comes grinding to a halt.
         | 
         | I'd imagine that the most brainless casual games would avoid
         | this sort of thing.
        
           | bentcorner wrote:
           | As a child playing the piano became a very weird experience
           | (in hindsight). I'd need to practice until a piece became
           | ingrained in my memory, and the only way I could play a piece
           | would be to not actually think about it, and think about
           | something else. As soon as I thought about what I was
           | playing, I'd forget how to play the song. I wouldn't even
           | know where I was, and could only pick up again either at the
           | beginning or major points in the song. Weird.
        
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