[HN Gopher] Why masterclass isn't about mastery
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Why masterclass isn't about mastery
Author : enigmatic02
Score : 33 points
Date : 2021-10-07 20:56 UTC (2 hours ago)
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| nfw2 wrote:
| Entertainment and inspiration surely play a large part of
| MasterClass's success. However, I strongly disagree with the
| bailey in this article's motte-and-bailey -- that the platform
| isn't really about education.
|
| At the highest echelon of competitive domains, mentorship by
| world-class performers is very common. Lin-Manuel Miranda was
| mentored by Stephen Sondheim. Seth Rogen was mentored by Judd
| Apatow. Steph Curry was mentored by Dell Curry.
|
| The reason that this sort of mentorship is not standard in
| education isn't because it isn't effective; it's because these
| world-class creators outnumber interested students a million to
| one.
|
| An argument could be made that this sort of online MOOC medium
| doesn't convey any of the educational benefits of direct
| mentorship, but that would require more concrete research that
| this article hasn't done.
| alexashka wrote:
| So, what redeeming quality does 'masterclass' have besides 'made
| money'?
|
| You know what else makes money? _Any_ charity 'work' a mega
| celebrity does.
|
| You mean you can make money when you get a mega celebrity to
| endorse your product for a tiny fee? It's as if you've leveraged
| celebrity worship to sell a random product and it worked!
| munificent wrote:
| _> MasterClass might claim to be selling education, but don't be
| fooled: they are selling credibility and inspiration._
|
| I strongly disagree. If you buy a MasterClass, _you_ don 't get
| any more credibility, so they haven't _sold_ any to you. You
| _might_ be more inspired, but I think that 's debatable too.
|
| I'm into game dev, writing, and music, and I hang out in various
| communities for all of them. Despite being very different
| domains, they are _very_ similar in many ways:
|
| * People who are successful at them have high prestige in our
| culture and often wealth. A hit can be experienced by millions,
| so there's very high visibility to success. Because of this,
| there are a large number of people clamoring to get in and do it
| too. There's a huge shiny pot of gold at the end of the rainbow
| and everyone wants it.
|
| * The process of _consuming_ the created work is very different
| from _creating_ it. In fact, the process is _really fucking
| hard_. A game you spent three hours playing took a year to make.
| That little sparkle animation you saw once when you got that
| bonus item took an artist a week to draw. That page you read in
| five minutes while waiting in line took the author seven drafts
| and two editors to get in print. And for every one of those
| pages, another one got cut entirely. That catchy little guitar
| riff took the artist ten years of practice to find the rare
| melodic nugget that sounds familiar enough hook you but isn 't
| actually ripped off from another song.
|
| Because the products are so visible and widely consumed, the fact
| that the process is so different is not well understood. In plain
| words, people don't realize what they're getting into when they
| want to be a game developer, writer, or musician. And when they
| encounter the reality that it's way harder than it seems and that
| they are signing up for years of making shitty art before they
| get good enough to produce something of merit, a whole lot of
| psychological stuff kicks in.
|
| There is a strong cognitive dissonance between the skilled
| creator they imagine themselves to be and the unskilled one they
| actually are today. They've hung some of their self esteem on the
| idea that they are a gamedev or a musician, but when they sit
| down to actually _do_ that, they are forcibly confronted with the
| reality of their skill level.
|
| One of the most common reactions to that is _avoidance_. People
| will do anything _but_ make progress on their skill if it lets
| them avoid experiencing their current lack of it. So game
| developers go off and spend five years "making an engine"
| instead of making an actual game and shipping it. Writers obsess
| over the perfect writing routines and rituals. "Oh, I need to use
| a Montegrappa pen like Hemingway." Musicians buy and sell gear
| thinking this _next_ guitar or synth will be the one that the
| music flows out of like water. (I am highly guilty of all of
| these.)
|
| None of this ever helps them improve their skills and become a
| creator, but it _feels good_. It keeps the cognitive dissonance
| and fear of failure at bay.
|
| Dropping $180 on a MasterClass from your favorite creative person
| seems like it will improve your skills, but it requires no actual
| effort on your part. You don't have to _do_ anything. And,
| because of that, there is no risk of failure, no risk of seeing
| that you aren 't who you imagine yourself to be.
|
| That's what MasterClass sells: _avoidance of fear of failure._
| Balm for the anxiety that we aren 't who we aspire to be. They're
| in the same product category as "signature edition" guitars and
| distraction-free writing apps.
|
| There's nothing intrinsically wrong with this. The reality is
| that most of us won't ever be successful Hollywood directors or
| celebrity chefs. The economics just don't work out that way. I'd
| rather someone entertain an idle fantasy of being creative even
| if it rarely bears fruit than give up hope on the idea of being
| creative at all. Surely the only thing sadder than a wannabe
| musician is a mindless consumer who doesn't want to be _anything
| at all._
|
| And, who knows, it probably does inspire a few. Personally, I'd
| rather watch a few hours of video from a creative person who has
| actually made things that impacted the world, then, you know,
| unboxing videos or Instragram influencers or something.
|
| Maybe the success of MasterClass is a good sign. It says that
| many of us cherish the idea of mastering a creative art and
| making things for others.
| mrVentures wrote:
| I was very unhappy with the instruction I received from
| masterclass. Maybe I'm an idiot but I actually thought it was
| going to be out of Mastery level and I was disappointed that a
| lot of the classes really only focused on introductory material.
| It's annoying because most educational material for any topic is
| introductory, particularly the kind that you find online. So it
| can be pretty hard to find Mastery level advice at a high quality
| level of instruction.
| paulpauper wrote:
| Does anyone expect to be pro by just following a course?
| Danieru wrote:
| They excpect to receive wisdom and knowledge of a master, not
| to be a master themselves. MasterClass is really
| BeginnerClass, but that wouldn't sell.
|
| Yeah so, if OP did not realize the scheme before he bought I
| feel sorry for him. Way back when I first heard of
| Masterclass it too k me a minute of seeing the homepage to
| figure out the scheme. But I'm well versed in startup bs. "Of
| course a startup would focus on the mass market beginner
| level material" even if it says master class on the box.
| tshaddox wrote:
| I'm not sure why this is described as if it's bad or even
| surprising. Of course their audience is mostly not watching with
| the earnest expectation that the content of the videos will
| bestow upon them mastery of the topic. It's educational
| entertainment, just like any number of great YouTube channels,
| but with the high production values and famous faces that allow
| their content to command a high price.
| Jensson wrote:
| Not sure that everyone realizes this is just pop-science and
| not proper courses. Their homepage says:
|
| > Whether it be in business and leadership, photography,
| cooking, writing, acting, music, sports and more, MasterClass
| delivers a world class online learning experience.
| karmanyaahm wrote:
| > experts don't actually do it just for the money, but also as a
| way to give back. ... easy way to share their story and give
| advice to a lot of people. A one-year subscription priced at $180
| is pretty accessible -- certainly cheaper than getting advice
| from them directly.
|
| YouTube? If reach is all that matters then 0 is better than 180.
| jfengel wrote:
| I wouldn't expect it to be. A "master class" is a class taught by
| a master, not a class intended to make you a master.
|
| A master class is supposed to involve personal interaction with
| the the master, not a videotaped lecture. So I would expect even
| less from it than from a proper master class.
|
| Master classes can bring very advanced students up a notch,
| though it's not really intended to make them masters themselves
| all at a go. That's something you have to earn on your own. But
| master classes are often taught to the most advanced students to
| bring their performances to level where they're prepared to
| strike out on their own and truly master their craft.
| paxys wrote:
| I feel like Masterclass is a more direct competitor to Netflix
| than a university. I am a member and love the content, but don't
| really watch it with the intention of becoming the next Gordon
| Ramsay or Judd Apatow. Watching celebrities and others who are at
| the top of their craft give an insight into their creative
| process is worth it in itself. If I learn something useful then,
| well, that's a bonus.
| jollybean wrote:
| Masterclass is the TED Talk of education, it's really glorified /
| overproduced video podcast / interview, some nice notes, the
| subjects themselves rake in a lot of money.
|
| It's interesting fodder, surely it has value. But it's not a
| 'Master Class'.
| Multiplayer wrote:
| I think the cooking classes are very good. I don't know what a
| "Master Class" is per se, but getting Thomas Keller walking me
| one on one through a bunch of his recipes has to be pretty
| close! The article is right on, the classes totally inspired me
| and now I cook every day, without fear.
| xattt wrote:
| Masterclass comes off as the coffee table book of online
| learning: neat to flip through but no actual substance.
| vernie wrote:
| I've heard it described as "insight porn"
| [deleted]
| sumnole wrote:
| It's unfortunately a rare case for someone to be both a master at
| something and a master at teaching. Those are the best people to
| learn from.
|
| As for MasterClass, most people agree that it's more IntroClass.
| Naac wrote:
| >> The truth is that universities sell all of these things,
| bundled together. And that's a big reason they've been able to
| raise prices to astronomical levels over the past several decades
| -- it's really hard to disrupt all of those things at once.
|
| No, it's because no matter what the cost of school is,
| universities know their "customers" will just take out a loan to
| match whatever the price is. And one way to "disrupt" this is to
| make public universities free for in state students, similar to
| what California used to do with the UC system.
|
| It was difficult to read the rest of the article given that it
| started on this false premise.
|
| More specifically, this article should really define what
| MasterClass is right at the beginning. Because given the picture
| at the top, I thought it was referring to the generic masterclass
| [0]
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_class
| mmcdermott wrote:
| University degrees, in practice, aren't about learning or
| education. Depending on the person and the university, they are
| about accreditation (you have more doors open with a bachelor's
| than you would otherwise, depending on the degree) or they are
| about connections. Either one can be worth a loan.
|
| But I'm not so sure that making them free accomplishes either
| one. It's possible that doing so would only push the problem to
| the master's programs as organizations and candidates look for
| differentiation.
| cupofcoffee wrote:
| They are about learning and education though. How could they
| possibly not be. The other things like connections,
| socialising, getting drunk are just extra bonuses. This idea
| that universities don't provide any value to society and that
| they should be replaced by poorly structured YT videos with
| tons of mistakes in them has to go. Has no basis whatsoever.
| tasogare wrote:
| This comment is very caricatural. I got multiple university
| degrees from my country where it's almost free and I _learned
| a lot_ during the bachelor ones. Master not so much by that
| nice to have too.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| Wow, you really don't understand this at all, do you? You even
| _tell_ us you thought it was about something else.
|
| I didn't know about MasterClass myself, but I have to admire
| the marketing genius they've shown here. Of course you can't
| make much money teaching people a real skill, because that's
| hard and most people don't want to put in the time.
|
| However, _aspiration_ and status-seeking are things that are
| much more universal, and they 've figured out how to milk
| those. Good for them.
| bsder wrote:
| > However, aspiration and status-seeking are things that are
| much more universal, and they've figured out how to milk
| those. Good for them.
|
| Sorry, I find this idea distasteful as it is very
| disrespectful to the "student".
|
| The Masterclass courses are neither cheap nor short. Most of
| them don't seem to be very good, either.
|
| Spending the same amount of time and money with a local voice
| coach instead of with Christina Aguilera's Masterclass is
| going to be _far_ more productive for a singer.
|
| I suspect the rest of the Masterclasses are the same.
|
| Of course, none of this is new. The "Hot Licks" series of
| guitar videos did this like ... 30 years ago? And similarly,
| most videos are garbage, but a few are _amazing_ (Jimmy Bruno
| and Emily Remler spring to mind).
| xyzelement wrote:
| > No, it's because no matter what the cost of school is,
| universities know their "customers" will just take out a loan
| to match whatever the price is. And one way to "disrupt" this
| is to make public universities free for in state students
|
| It's not just the ability to borrow that's driving this, but
| the perception that you must absolutely have the product
| (college degree) - so you don't feel like you have a choice
| _not to borrow_ to pay the exorbitant fee.
|
| University is hard to "disrupt" but the fact that the cost
| comes out of your pocket, student debt and all, is one
| motivating factor for others to try.
|
| If you entrench the university as something that's "free"
| (meaning, you still pay the exorbitant fee, just in the form of
| taxes) then you've basically established a monopoly because
| nothing can compete with something that's "free"
|
| My take on the university is simple - the university originally
| existed because you needed a single physical location for books
| and smart people. Access to people and information was finite
| and location really mattered.
|
| This is the opposite of the world we live in now - ability to
| access people and knowledge today is only hurt by the physical
| colocation aspect. So the university, which is still operating
| under the "books and smart people are scarce so you need to pay
| us to be near them" principle just no longer makes sense as the
| default way to educate the masses.
| Naac wrote:
| >> My take on the university is simple - the university
| originally existed because you needed a single physical
| location for books and smart people. Access to people and
| information was finite and location really mattered. This is
| the opposite of the world we live in now - ability to access
| people and knowledge today is only hurt by the physical
| colocation aspect. So the university, which is still
| operating under the "books and smart people are scarce so you
| need to pay us to be near them" principle just no longer
| makes sense as the default way to educate the masses.
|
| That doesn't make sense. Maybe for some fields, but certainly
| all the fields that actually require a lab to work in still
| benefit from the physical space a university provides.
|
| I'm also not convinced that remote work/meetings == in person
| collaboration between colleagues.
| bigyikes wrote:
| How does making the school free solve that specific problem?
| Wouldn't the taxpayers foot the bill for whatever the price is?
| At least with loans there is _some_ consumer price sensitivity,
| even if it's lowered via use of loans.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Taxpayers footing the bills for things are more rational and
| calculating than either 17 year olds or the parents of same
| who "just want the best" for their kids. (That's not to say
| that taxpayers are particularly great at making trade offs; I
| just think the 17 year olds and their parents are especially
| terrible at it.)
| tshaddox wrote:
| Presumably any proposal for completely or largely government-
| funded schools would contain some price controls.
| zenithd wrote:
| _> Wouldn't the taxpayers foot the bill for whatever the
| price is?_
|
| No, that's not how state budgets work. It's the other way
| around. Universities will get whatever the state appropriates
| to them and then have an obligation to take all comers.
| jeegsy wrote:
| > Universities will get whatever the state appropriates to
| them and then have an obligation to take all comers.
|
| Would that be like current pre-university public schools
| then? Shudder!
| AmericanChopper wrote:
| Yes it absolutely would. A better approach would be to test
| the creditworthiness of the educational program against the
| earning power of its graduates. That would go a long way
| towards solving literally every issue relating to student
| debt and tuition costs.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| Presumably, the state has more leverage to negotiate/cap
| prices than the individual student.
| emsy wrote:
| > Wouldn't the taxpayers foot the bill for whatever the price
| is?
|
| Certainly doesn't work that way in germany where college is
| free. But then again, the US have an odd relationship with
| tax funding, to say the least.
| Jensson wrote:
| You want the person who is better able to negotiate to
| negotiate price and product. For what groceries or car you
| buy you yourself is better than the state. However for
| education and healthcare the state has proven to be a better
| negotiator than the people.
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| > No, it's because no matter what the cost of school is,
| universities know their "customers" will just take out a loan
| to match whatever the price is.
|
| This is key, and price inflation happens when the entity
| receiving a service is not the entity paying for the service.
| It makes the customer price-insensitive. Witness healthcare in
| America.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Witness housing.
| avianlyric wrote:
| > More specifically, this article should really define what
| MasterClass is right at the beginning. Because given the
| picture at the top, I thought it was referring to the generic
| masterclass
|
| It does, MasterClass is capitalised in the title showing that
| its a proper noun and the by-line is
|
| > And other lessons from a 9-figure edtech startup
|
| Not sure how the author could define MasterClass more "at the
| beginning" than in the title and by-line.
| Naac wrote:
| > Not sure how the author could define MasterClass more "at
| the beginning" than in the title and by-line.
|
| They do define properly, just after an unrelated blurb about
| public universities: "MasterClass is an online education
| portal"
|
| > It does, MasterClass is capitalised in the title showing
| that its a proper noun and the by-line is
|
| That's fair, although it wasn't capitalized on hackernews
| arthurcolle wrote:
| It's just fun to watch. I liked the Disney guy's one
|
| Also anything even tangentially involving Gordon Ramsay is
| immediately at the top of my list
| ai_ia wrote:
| Have you wondered that Maybe people aren't really interested in
| mastery. Some do, ofcourse but most will be happy with learning
| just enough. Whenever I hear the word mastery, I am reminded of
| the Japanese documentary Jiro dreams of sushi. A Japanese sushi
| chef who is a master at sushi and that's what he has been doing
| for the last 40 years or so.
|
| Only when one realizes the actual effort that needs to be done to
| achieve Mastery, most people back out. This is crazy, they say.
| Who has the time to practice 4 hours a day.
|
| Masterclass doesn't sell mastery. DuoLingo doesn't sell language
| learning. It sells an aspirational hope that this new skill or
| language is just one course away. And that's comforting to us
| somehow. We are simple creatures after all.
|
| BTW, I like the word mastery too much that I decided to start a
| company around it. Primerlabs(https://primerlabs.io). The goal is
| to create self paced courses that will allow anyone to truly
| self-learn difficult subject such as physics, mathematics,
| economics. We are focusing on CS currently but we will get there
| (hopefully).
| wbsss4412 wrote:
| I think that's a bit harsh of a description of duolingo. It
| definitely undersells the amount of work involved, but it
| absolutely does sell language learning. I've personally used it
| to that effect multiple times.
| Jensson wrote:
| People also pay a lot of money just to have something to talk
| about. Saying "I started taking this course from
| {famous_person}" is a conversation starter.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _Have you wondered that Maybe people aren 't really
| interested in mastery._
|
| Yes, they have. That's what their whole post is about.
| ineedasername wrote:
| Except a "master class" is usually only given to students that
| are already well into the introductory-- and often advanced--
| stages of learning a craft. And that's not even getting into
| the structure of how such courses usually function & engage
| with the students.
|
| People don't have to want to be "masters" in order to be
| interested in this sort of content, but calling them "master
| classes" rather waters down the definition quite a bit when
| someone with an interest but no experience in cinematography
| now goes around saying with smug pride, "I took a master class
| with Martin Scorsese".
|
| Language changes and the meaning of words & phrases change,
| sure. But I guess what I don't like is the deliberate
| manipulation of language to co-opt it for marketing & profiting
| contrary to what the current use of the language actually
| means.
| mmaunder wrote:
| Masterclass is brilliant in that it is flattering to the audience
| (master learners only), taught by actual masters of the craft
| (credibility) and positioned in a way that gives the teacher
| permission to omit the fundamentals (this is master level, not
| basics).
|
| Many amateur publishers outside of masterclass dot com have
| stolen this concept because it too gives them permission to not
| actually teach fundamentals, but give the feeling of learning.
|
| And that's really what you get from masterclass. I've done a lot
| of courses on there including Deadmau5 and a lot of film stuff.
| Actual EDM production and actual filmmaking are incredibly
| technical and cover a LOT. I've gone deep on Ableton and gone
| deep on film (I'm a trained steadicam op, attended DP courses
| (and I know BMD cameras backwards), attended colorist courses (I
| know Resolve backwards) etc. And the actual learning of these
| crafts is something you will never even approach at masterclass
| dot com.
|
| But the author is right. It's very inspirational. But there is
| very little usable knowledge in any 'masterclass' on how to
| practice the craft. I think it's critical to understand this
| because the 'feeling' of learning that MC provides is not the
| same as 'actual' learning. Actual learning is very time consuming
| which is why one of the prereqs is passion for the subject
| because of the volume of content one is required to consume.
|
| So I think one negative effect that MC has is that it can give
| people the illusion of actual learning when it creates the
| feeling of learning and merely provides inspiration. But I do
| love MC and I do still use it, so I don't want it to go away and
| I'm glad it exists.
| coralreef wrote:
| Master class can be hit and miss. I liked the gardening one and
| dog training one, and the negotiating one. But didnt really like
| Steph Curry's basketball course, or Steve Martin's comedy
| writing, they just seemed to lack useful substance.
|
| Maybe the bigger the celeb the less thought/work they put into
| the course.
| TigeriusKirk wrote:
| I thought Dan Brown's class was the best writing instruction
| I've come across. He understands exactly how he does what he
| does and he knows how to explain it to you.
| paulpauper wrote:
| i like the one about how to go food shopping. (yeah, they have
| gotten really specific now)
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| ... Masterclass is a small subset of classes by famous people to
| give you a bit of personal insight into what they do and how they
| do it.
|
| Universities are a large set of classes focused on a particular
| domain of knowledge with subsets of a set of other knowledge
| domains bolted on that have a use for the student.
|
| Watching Masterclass With Gordon Ramsey will give you a cookbook,
| and a few cooking tips for the things he prepares.
|
| Watching 11 years of Emeril Live! won't prepare you for working
| as a chef, but you can probably watch them and summarize some dos
| and don'ts of cooking.
|
| Attending the French Culinary Institute, taking their classes,
| and working in their student restaurant will prepare you for a
| career in the culinary field in some capacity.
|
| Whether starting as a dishwasher and working your way up is
| better than spending $60K on 2 years of cooking classes is up to
| the individual.
| [deleted]
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