[HN Gopher] Diet soda may prompt food cravings, especially in wo...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Diet soda may prompt food cravings, especially in women and people
       with obesity
        
       Author : therockspush
       Score  : 140 points
       Date   : 2021-10-07 17:54 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.npr.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.npr.org)
        
       | entropicgravity wrote:
       | Alternatively Beck's 0% is 60 cal, almost no sugar and is a
       | decent facsimile for beer. Win win.
        
         | c0nsumer wrote:
         | I really wish more 0% beer was available in the US, and at
         | reasonable prices. I've been buying Athletic Brewing stuff
         | lately and it's good, but at $11-$12 for a six-pack it's priced
         | the same as mid-tier microbrews.
         | 
         | I can buy good local micros for a few dollars less, so the NA
         | pricing feels a bit wasteful. But I haven't been drinking
         | alcohol lately, so... this is my choice if I want something
         | beer-y tasting.
        
           | rory wrote:
           | Luckily enough, I think we're near the beginning of a wave of
           | alcohol-free beer coming to market in the US. Sam Adams "Just
           | the Haze" and Brooklyn "Special Effects IPA" both came out in
           | the past year and are pretty solid.
        
       | monkellipse wrote:
       | I don't doubt that diet soda is terrible for you. I would however
       | like to point out that the particular study cited had 74
       | participants. This seems a bit low but to me, though I realize it
       | may not be the only study showing some similar effects. I'd love
       | to see a larger study.
        
       | hncurious wrote:
       | I had to go completely cold turkey for months before I was able
       | to break away from diet soda.
       | 
       | My #1 tip: Do not have it in the house. If it's there, your body
       | will find its way to it and will perpetuate the habit, the
       | addiction, the cravings.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | This is good advice for anything you crave, be it soda, food,
         | you name it. The hardest part about losing weight for me is
         | when my wife continues to buy junk food for herself or the
         | kids.
        
           | ngngngng wrote:
           | Have you tried lifting weights? Maintaining muscle takes a
           | lot of calories. If you eat too much, just turn it into
           | muscle and there won't be any left over for your body to
           | store fat.
        
       | Ronson wrote:
       | Not so much the food, but I am heavily addicted to Coke Zero. I
       | tried on Monday to quit it after a 2 week focus to prepare and I
       | failed within 2 hours. I have previously quit nicotine for
       | example so it's blown my mind why I can't handle stopping this
       | simple drink.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Try drinking tea, caffeinated or decaffeinated. I'm not sure
         | why, but brewing tea has helped me stave off many such
         | addictions.
        
         | tdeck wrote:
         | Do other drinks / sources of caffeine work to replace it? I
         | know it takes a couple of weeks to get over caffeine
         | withdrawal, during which you may feel really tired or get
         | headaches.
        
         | Apocryphon wrote:
         | Is it Coke Zero specifically, how do you react towards other
         | diet sodas?
        
           | MisterBastahrd wrote:
           | The black label Coke Zero uses aspartame instead of
           | saccharine, is strongly carbonated, and has a noticeable
           | caffeine bite. Sorta similar to Barq's root beer, which is
           | less flavorful than A&W and other competitors but has
           | caffeine and was marketed with "Barq's has bite."
           | 
           | The newer version tastes a lot more like regular coke, but to
           | get that flavor, it seems that it is meant to be poured over
           | ice.
        
         | hateful wrote:
         | Are you getting caffeine from other sources?
        
         | winternett wrote:
         | Seems like an addiction you have through mental/memory
         | association or routine that has been created over time for you.
         | If "Diet Coke" is still bearable for you, or even if not, try
         | switching to that to disconnect the addiction within your
         | brain, then perhaps it may be easier to quit. I am not a
         | psychiatrist though, just a suggestion.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | How did you fail within two hours? Was there still some in your
         | home or did you unconsciously walk to the store and purchase
         | more? Getting it out of your house is key. It's important to
         | raise the friction to act on the vice as much as possible or
         | else you will engage in it without thinking.
         | 
         | If its caffeine you are physically addicted to, I will say the
         | withdrawal is probably just as bad as a nicotine withdrawal.
         | Nicotine withdrawal seemed to hit much faster (for me it was
         | within 15 minutes of my last hit of nicotine vs coffee I just
         | needed it bad in the mornings), but other than that the effects
         | of withdrawal felt the same to me between the two stimulants.
         | In both cases, if you are able to deal with a terrible migraine
         | headache and feeling underslept and sick and nauseous for the
         | two weeks it takes to get through these symptoms (in my
         | experience at least), you will have successfully quit. I have
         | cut back my coffee to maybe 3-5 cups a week (after a long
         | initial detox) and I haven't used or craved nicotine in years.
        
       | major505 wrote:
       | Moral of story: drink beer. Or water. Water works too.
        
       | shmde wrote:
       | I am ignorant in this topic, but why do americans seem to drink
       | soda( pop as they call in cinema) excessively ? I live in India
       | and flavoured soda is considered luxury item here. We just drink
       | water with everything, unless its a festive occasion or with
       | alcohol. What makes soda so attractive that US customers consumes
       | it so heavily. The only points I can think of is the cheap price
       | and concentrated sugar which is found to be addictive.
        
         | brandonmenc wrote:
         | Tasty. Fizzy. Caffeine. Cheap. Tons of flavor options.
        
         | pvarangot wrote:
         | Washes away the fat and caffeine helps with the digestion of
         | heavy meals. Same reason Italians drink wine and coffee and/or
         | smoke cigarettes. Making super heavy meals part of your _daily_
         | routine is hard without supplements.
        
         | DaveExeter wrote:
         | Excessive soda consumption? That's me! But I drink the sugar
         | free versions.
         | 
         | I guess because it is cheap (~$1 for 2 litres), sweet, and
         | fizzy.
        
           | Spivak wrote:
           | Honestly yeah, I just prefer all my drinks fizzy. But
           | carbonated water has something off about it.
        
             | vorpalhex wrote:
             | The ph sits in a different place. Try adding a dash of
             | lemon or lime juice.
        
         | zeku wrote:
         | It's normal to give to children due to marketing and it has not
         | 1 but 2 addictive ingredients. Sugar && Caffeine. I was
         | addicted to soda as a teen and it was very difficult to quit I
         | had huge cravings.
        
         | dxscorp wrote:
         | American who's kicked a soda addiction -- it's super cheap,
         | tasty, has some caffeine, and it's everywhere (gas station,
         | convenience store, supermarket, advertisements), not to mention
         | you have to walk by a soda fridge near the checkout lines of
         | most retail stores. I only drank diet soda but you become so
         | desensitized to it that water is 'boring' in comparison you
         | don't reach for it as easily
        
         | yodsanklai wrote:
         | Advertisement. Coca Cola spends billions every year in
         | advertising. Nobody would drink this otherwise.
         | 
         | What I don't get is how they can get away with it. I mean
         | people are getting crazy over companies like Facebook but junk
         | food companies get a free pass for some reason. Most Americans
         | are even unable to see the link with obesity rates.
        
           | perl4ever wrote:
           | It used to be a cliche that American tourists were the only
           | ones who would order water at cafes or restaurants in certain
           | countries.
        
           | vlunkr wrote:
           | Well that's a chicken/egg problem right? Coke and Pepsi
           | wouldn't have so much to spend on advertising if they weren't
           | already very popular.
        
         | TameAntelope wrote:
         | I don't like the blandness of water, if you want a first-person
         | perspective. I consume a _lot_ of diet soda, probably 8-10 cans
         | a day. I 'm always drinking something; if it's not soda, it's
         | green tea, or gatorade, or coffee. I always need to be drinking
         | something and diet soda is... well, something.
         | 
         | It's not much of a decision point, I don't really think about
         | it in terms of expected value or return on my choice, diet soda
         | is simply the answer to the question of, "What are you
         | drinking?"
         | 
         | And despite articles like the submission, there's no real
         | observed downside to this choice (I'm not obese, and have never
         | been obese, so this article doesn't really apply to me), other
         | than potentially what the carbonation could be doing to my
         | teeth, and as long as my dentist doesn't seem to have any
         | concerns (she doesn't), I persist.
        
           | Gene_Parmesan wrote:
           | No judgment is meant here - I am always so curious about
           | people who think water is bland. When I'm thirsty, cold ice
           | water is the best tasting thing on the planet to me.
           | 
           | I enjoy the taste of diet pop, but I also find myself
           | reaching for it sometimes out of sheer boredom rather than
           | thirst. If I drink some water and I find it bland, to me
           | that's a sign I wasn't actually thirsty.
           | 
           | I don't think there's anything unusual about reaching for a
           | soda as a treat for its taste. But in terms of pure thirst-
           | quenching - damn does water hit the spot.
        
             | MentallyRetired wrote:
             | I'm addicted to the carbonation and bite of the citric
             | acid, personally. Though, I did recently switch to Zevia
             | and now limit my intake.
        
             | TameAntelope wrote:
             | Why would you want to limit yourself to drinking only when
             | you're thirsty?
             | 
             | Short of overhydration, there are no downsides to pretty
             | much constantly consuming non-caloric liquids.
        
               | nkssy wrote:
               | Drinking water excessively is often an indicator of
               | illness eg diabetes. Other reasons exist. The "its a hot
               | day" reason is better than most but cold non-sugar drinks
               | are usually more refreshing.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | Given your list of beverages, it sounds to me you might
               | be subconsciously self-medicating with caffeine :).
               | Myself, I'm constantly drinking either black tea or diet
               | coke, all day long. I only drink water as last resort.
               | I've been like that since childhood. It only recently
               | occurred to me that I'm always settling on drinking
               | choices that supply me with stimulants, indicating a
               | potential deficiency problem.
        
             | theduder99 wrote:
             | I agree with you. My dad only drinks coke and says water is
             | bland/bitter. There is definitely a connection between the
             | two.
        
             | lexapro wrote:
             | I don't think these people drink soda because they're
             | thirsty. They drink it because they enjoy the taste and
             | it's something to do, it's almost a small form of
             | entertainment. As a result they're never really thirsty in
             | the first place.
             | 
             | It's also what you're used to. There was a time when I
             | would drink a lot of soda, but then I made an effort to
             | switch to just water (and coffee). I almost never crave
             | soda now.
        
             | svachalek wrote:
             | Mostly it's acclimatization, I think. If you have sweet
             | stuff all the time, it doesn't taste all that sweet
             | anymore, and everything else seems bland.
             | 
             | But there's also genetics. Some people spit out stuff like
             | "omg, that's too sweet! yuck!" I eat a pretty spare diet
             | these days and try to eliminate sugars and other additives,
             | and still, sweet is good. I cannot put together this
             | concept, "too" sweet. My sister doesn't like the taste of
             | red meat, never has. People are just different!
        
           | mpfundstein wrote:
           | tip: take carbonated water and put some lemons in it. removes
           | the blandness
        
             | LouisSayers wrote:
             | If you do this all the time you may have issues with your
             | teeth.
             | 
             | Acid + teeth is not a good mix.
        
               | dymk wrote:
               | Soda (even diet soda) is incredibly acidic - lemon water
               | is better than nothing
        
           | dawnerd wrote:
           | Also soda is just _easy_.
           | 
           | Dressing up water with lemons or whatever takes time.
           | Grabbing a soda from the fridge is dang near effortless.
           | 
           | Plus caffeine.
        
           | websap wrote:
           | A soda stream might change your life. It's an amazing device
           | to have. Hope you drink enough water to keep yourself healthy
           | and your skin looking fresh.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | It's just culture. Some cultures eat a lot of rice, some drink
         | a lot of vodka, some eat a lot of fish. Probably a mix of
         | marketing and cultural taste like most things.
        
         | CyanBird wrote:
         | Soda is highly subsidized in the US, it is a consequence of US
         | gov subsidizing corn syrup, so on a ratio of wages to prize
         | sodas are very, very, very cheap, and in a country with few
         | public bathrooms or public fountains, the easiest way to have a
         | drink while on the go used to be sodas
         | 
         | These days it is more common to ask for water, but even then,
         | that will be bottled water and the prices can be similar to
         | soda
        
           | vinay427 wrote:
           | Are we talking about the same US? I don't live there anymore,
           | but I'm always surprised by the high number of indoor
           | fountains in publicly-accessible buildings (as well as many
           | parks and outdoor locations) there. For instance, every
           | library, shopping mall, or larger store seems to have one
           | near the bathrooms.
           | 
           | Meanwhile, in some European countries, for instance, outdoor
           | fountains can be more plentiful which is fantastic in its own
           | way, and indoor options are much less common. In others,
           | neither outdoor nor indoor options exist so one is forced to
           | find a public bathroom to use the faucet.
           | 
           | In some other countries, both public bathrooms and water
           | fountains can be very rare, which unfortunately leaves no
           | viable option.
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | You can always ask for a glass of water specifically. Any
           | place with a soda fountain can give you cold, filtered tap
           | water.
        
             | CyanBird wrote:
             | Exactly
             | 
             | But that didn't use to be culturally ingrained in the US
             | until just relatively recently, and since then it has been
             | exported abroad
        
           | zz865 wrote:
           | Soda isn't really subsidized. Yes corn is subsidized but the
           | main cost of soda is advertising, packaging and distribution,
           | the flavor and syrup (or in the case the sweetener) costs
           | nothing.
        
         | onkoe wrote:
         | It's pretty darn good and you can find it everywhere for quite
         | cheap.
        
         | ecshafer wrote:
         | There are a few reasons. One is that soda is marketed extremely
         | heavily by Coke and Pepsi as a very normal drink to have all of
         | the time. The other is that is pushed in restaurants a lot as
         | it has a huge profit margin, similar to alcohol but you can
         | have it as a child; relatedly children get a taste for it as
         | its very sweet and sets people up from child hood. Another is
         | that corn syrup is heavily subsidized, and is in food
         | everywhere here, and very few families have a house wife
         | cooking food from scratch these days. So processed food with
         | sugar additives is normal giving people these addictions and
         | cravings.
        
           | halfmatthalfcat wrote:
           | Idk if "cooking from scratch" is something of privilege but
           | my entire extended family and my wife's entire extended
           | family all cook "from scratch" most of the time unless we're
           | dining out. Anecdotal but I've known very few people/families
           | who rely solely on take out/prepared meals for their
           | sustenance.
        
           | Dma54rhs wrote:
           | You don't need a personal chef to cook non processed food at
           | home, not even a stay at home housewife of 60's. This is the
           | most privileged thing I hear Americans repeating. All the raw
           | ingredients are there at your supermarkets, cheap prices
           | compared to your wages. I've seen it with my own eyes from
           | visiting. It's just laziness and saving time, billions of
           | people around the world cook at home from raw ingredients.
           | They also go to work.
           | 
           | People are lazy and prefer to replace it with netflix which I
           | don't have a problem with until people lie to themselves and
           | others about the reasons.
        
             | 8note wrote:
             | Americans don't know how to cook, and don't have somebody
             | to teach them the basics.
             | 
             | The bar to entry gets high when your parents can't cook
        
             | AniseAbyss wrote:
             | My mom had a job. When she came home she still cooked a
             | meal for her family. With vegetables.
             | 
             | The real truth is that a majority of Americans are now
             | overweight. Unhealthy lifestyle has been normalised to a
             | point when non fat kids who don't eat pizza for lunch will
             | be bullied.
        
               | the_lonely_road wrote:
               | 2021 high school America: https://www.google.com/search?q
               | =2021+high+school+america&tbm...
               | 
               | I see mostly healthy (80% or more) BMI kids in these
               | photos.
               | 
               | 2021 middle school America: https://www.google.com/search
               | ?q=2021+middle+school+america&c...
               | 
               | Again nearly all of them healthy BMI.
               | 
               | Moving away from anecdotes to statistics:
               | https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/childhood.html
               | 
               | Not surprising 20% obesity and 80% healthy.
               | 
               | This is a tragedy that needs to be addressed but is not
               | even close to non fat kids are being abused by fat kids
               | now in America.
               | 
               | While the picture for adults is much worse, still only
               | 42.4% of American adults are obese. A great tragedy that
               | needs to be addressed but a "significant" majority of
               | Americans are still at a healthy BMI.
        
               | rkk3 wrote:
               | Not sure what a google search for "2021 High School
               | America" is supposed to prove. Its just a collection of
               | photo's of beauty pagent winners and athletes...
        
               | the_lonely_road wrote:
               | Then we are getting localized results differences. I
               | spent a few seconds scrolling down those links and there
               | are dozens of group shot photos of dozens of American
               | school children. It's anecdotal evidence showing that the
               | majority of American children are not obese which you can
               | see in those photos with your own eyes. If you don't like
               | anecdotes it's followed up with the actual population
               | level statistics from an authoritative source.
        
             | vehemenz wrote:
             | "Privilege" is an interesting word. If I were Indian or
             | Chinese, I would feel privileged to have been raised in one
             | the world's greatest food cultures instead of eating
             | spaghetti and mac 'n' cheese like an American my whole
             | life.
             | 
             | Kids don't choose what their parents feed them, and that's
             | how culture is imparted to the next generation.
        
               | yodsanklai wrote:
               | I had a friend from Thailand who was an au pair in a very
               | wealthy American family. She was genuinely sorry for them
               | because they never ate fresh food.
               | 
               | That being said, junk food isn't the privilege of
               | Americans. Even countries with a "food culture" like
               | France eat a lot of junk food.
        
             | monkeywork wrote:
             | >You don't need s personal chef to cook non processed food
             | at home, not even a stay at home housewife of 60's. This is
             | the most privileged thing I hear Americans repeating
             | 
             | I think you are manufacturing your own argument here - no
             | one said that they had to eat at a restaurant, have a
             | personal chef, or a 60s housewife to eat well?
        
               | Dma54rhs wrote:
               | I think you've misread something, the parent post
               | specifically mentioned personal chefs. Not trying to
               | manufacture anything here and I give you the benefit of
               | doubt.
        
             | PostThisTooFast wrote:
             | Where did he "lie about the reasons?" He made a simple
             | assertion of fact: Fewer people are cooking at home, and
             | they're relying on processed junk.
             | 
             | What's "privileged" about that, either?
        
             | missedthecue wrote:
             | I agree with this. A combo meal at McDonalds is $8 or $9
             | per person these days, meanwhile, a (relatively) healthy
             | supermarket meal easily cooked on the stovetop in the time
             | it takes to wait in a drive-thru costs $1 or $2 per person.
             | I don't buy into the idea that Americans eat processed
             | unhealthy foods because of their personal financial
             | situation.
        
               | rosseloh wrote:
               | > a (relatively) healthy supermarket meal easily cooked
               | on the stovetop in the time it takes to wait in a drive-
               | thru
               | 
               | Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with your overall
               | point....but what drive-thrus do you use?
               | 
               | A home-cooked meal for me takes at MINIMUM an hour. Prep,
               | cooking, eating, cleanup. If it takes less than that,
               | then it's probably a lot of pre-made/processed stuff that
               | isn't particularly healthy in itself.
               | 
               | The only way I've been able to get around it with my work
               | schedule is to meal-prep on weekends. Making stuff in
               | bulk helps, but it's still 3-5 hours of my precious
               | weekend used up.
        
               | the8472 wrote:
               | > A home-cooked meal for me takes at MINIMUM an hour.
               | 
               | It's not hard to optimize for speed. White rice, beans
               | and frozen veggies boil in 10-15 minutes and don't even
               | require attention for the full timespan. Cleanup consists
               | of putting things in the dishwasher. And I don't know why
               | you would factor in eating, going to McD won't teleport
               | it into your stomach. Time can be further amortized by
               | making several servings, putting them in the fridge and
               | warming them up in the microwave later.
               | 
               | We're comparing to fastfood here, not a high end
               | restaurant course.
        
               | rosseloh wrote:
               | Cleanup for me definitely doesn't consist only of the
               | dishwasher; my knives, wok, cast iron stuff to start
               | definitely don't get put in there.
               | 
               | I have optimized what I do quite well, or at least I'm
               | much faster than I used to be. But for example this last
               | weekend, I made some stir fry in a large batch for this
               | week's meals. By the time I left my parents' house (long
               | story but I basically can't cook at the house I live in),
               | I had used up three hours. That was prepping four bell
               | peppers, an onion, garlic, cabbage, broccoli, and
               | chicken, cooking them, and cleaning up afterward.
               | 
               | I'm sure I can speed my prep up even more, mostly with
               | knife skills. But at this point, that's how it is.
               | 
               | I factor in eating because I clean up after I eat. Most
               | of the stuff I make is best fresh out of the frying pan
               | with very minimal resting time.
               | 
               | But anyway, I'm not here to argue. If cooking at home
               | works for you in 15 minutes, fantastic! I can't do that,
               | it never works that quickly. I was mostly wondering how
               | the parent poster's drive-thrus were so slow that they
               | could cook faster because where I live, I never spend
               | more than five minutes in one.
        
               | manmal wrote:
               | Cooking time heavily depends on the dish. There are
               | recipes optimized for time consumption - if time is a
               | priority, you could use those. Sometimes we just put
               | potatoes in the pressure cooker, peel afterwards, and
               | season with some oil and spice - takes 10m max. That's
               | the healthier alternative to fries from McD. A keto meal
               | will take longer, but at least in my area there's no
               | takeout option for keto anyway.
        
               | phonypc wrote:
               | > _there's no takeout option for keto anyway._
               | 
               | Big Mac, no bun, extra mac sauce. /s
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | I feel like this doesn't optimize for enjoyment. Like
               | shit this is what I ate when I was a broke in college.
               | Are y'all not miserable eating this? At that point in my
               | life getting taken by my parents out to somewhere
               | mediocre like Olive Garden was heaven.
        
               | bcrosby95 wrote:
               | Boiled veggies are disgustingly bland.
               | 
               | We season and bake our veggies. It adds to cost, but
               | doesn't make me want to toss my food in the trash.
        
               | 8note wrote:
               | If you don't boil them too much, they're plenty
               | flavourful.
               | 
               | It's just that it's the flavour of the vegetable, which
               | isn't full of sugar, salt, or msg unlike the very
               | optimized processed foods
        
               | windowsrookie wrote:
               | No we're not miserable. In fact having home cooked
               | healthy meals daily makes me feel better than ever. When
               | I go eat fast food now I feel noticeably worse than I
               | normally do.
               | 
               | You are what you eat. Eat garbage fast food, and you will
               | feel like garbage. And your body slowly accumulates all
               | that garbage.
               | 
               | Traditional dine in restaurants are usually just as
               | unhealthy as eating fast food as well.
               | 
               | It's actually shocking to me that garbage food has been
               | normalized to the point where eating healthy is "what I
               | ate when I was a broke in college." and that we must be
               | miserable eating healthy.
               | 
               | Wow that's crazy.
        
               | 8note wrote:
               | I think you're conflating enjoyment with status?
               | 
               | It's low status to eat well on home cooked foods, and
               | high status to eat poorly at well advertised garbage
               | restaurants
        
               | eurasiantiger wrote:
               | No, we're not miserable. That's just the media
               | environment playing mind tricks on you to get you to buy
               | things you don't need so you don't miss out on the
               | montage of joyous people and half-naked bodies playing
               | and frolicking on the sunny ocean beach with refreshing,
               | ice-cold, bubbly, intensely colored sugar water.
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | Yo that's super depressing if you're buying your time
               | back just to watch TV. Do you just assume that people
               | don't have friends, hobbies, side projects?
        
               | eurasiantiger wrote:
               | Sure, people have those. Friends to go out with to spend
               | money, because that's the way to socialize. Hobbies that
               | require buying more non-essential things, and places to
               | keep them in. Larger apartments to accommodate
               | everything. Side projects to keep you busy while the
               | world goes to shit.
        
               | lapetitejort wrote:
               | Get an instant pot (a relatively new "smart" pressure
               | cooker). I've been introducing my in-laws to their
               | instant pot and it's hard for them to comprehend how fast
               | it cooks. Mashed potatoes, steel cuts oats, lentils, all
               | in about 10 minutes. The pot cooks everything.
               | 
               | My go-to lazy meal is 1 1/2 cups of rice and beans, a few
               | cups of stock, a cup of salsa, extra flavoring as
               | desired, whatever veggies and protein I have around, all
               | thrown in the pot for 25 minutes. Then I take out the pot
               | and put it in the fridge. That will last two people a few
               | days. Very little prep for a massive amount of food.
               | 
               | You can also make yogurt overnight for maybe a 75%
               | savings over store-bought.
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | This hits home for me. I really enjoy cooking but I've
               | basically given up on weeknight meals that aren't either
               | leftovers from when I cook for fun or something prepared.
               | 
               | Like it is genuinely the most out of touch privileged
               | statement but I have the money and am absolutely willing
               | to buy the time. $30-70/wk (less the cost of groceries)
               | to gain 8ish hours of leisure time and more variety than
               | I would ever bother with is a no brainer experience at
               | this point in my life.
        
               | chefkoch wrote:
               | I agree with this if your single, but if your a family
               | every meal outside is 4 times the price and the time to
               | prep the meal at home stays almost the same.
        
               | windowsrookie wrote:
               | You're doing it wrong. There's so many ways to cook a
               | quick healthy cheap meal.
               | 
               | I cook 6 chicken breasts at a time, that way I have
               | chicken for today and the next 5 days. It takes less than
               | 5 minutes of your time to put chicken breasts on a sheet
               | pan and then step away for 20 minutes while they bake in
               | the oven. Then one minute to wash the sheet pan when they
               | are done. There's 6 minutes of my time for 6 days of
               | chicken breasts.
               | 
               | Then there's so many ways to use the pre-cooked chicken
               | breasts. One day ill chop one up mix with mayo, and
               | mustard to make chicken salad and apply to some toast. 5
               | minute chicken salad sandwiches.
               | 
               | Next day I'll chop the chicken Breast up mix with taco
               | seasoning microwave for 1 minute and apply to taco shells
               | with lettuce and tomato. 5 minute tacos.
               | 
               | Next day I'll microwave a chicken breast with some mixed
               | veggies. 5 minute chicken and veggies.
               | 
               | Next day I'll microwave the chicken breast apply to some
               | toast with lettuce,tomato, mayo. 5 minute chicken
               | sandwich.
               | 
               | That was just some things you can do with a chicken
               | breast. There's so many meals you can prepare in less
               | than 5 minutes that is healthier and cheaper than
               | anything you get going out to eat.
        
               | rosseloh wrote:
               | FWIW, I don't go out to eat that often. I don't cook much
               | either, except for weekend prep as mentioned. When I
               | don't have something prepped, it's usually wraps with
               | tortillas, baby spinach, and some sort of meat and
               | cheese.
               | 
               | (Long story but I live in a complicated environment with
               | a bunch of people who never clean up after themselves, so
               | the kitchen is basically unusable since I refuse to clean
               | their messes.)
               | 
               | Also, "some mixed veggies". Do you use frozen? I like
               | frozen veggies, but they take a lot longer than five
               | minutes to cook unless I'm just microwaving a steamer bag
               | (and they never taste that good prepped that way). I much
               | prefer fresh (and they're normally cheaper, monetarily,
               | though obviously they take much longer to prep).
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | ljm wrote:
               | How much time do you spend driving to the drive-through,
               | queueing up at a drive-through, making your order at the
               | drive-through, waiting for your order at the drive-
               | through, receiving the order from the drive-through, and
               | then taking the order from the drive-through home before
               | you eat it?
               | 
               | Add up that time over the course of a week and see how
               | much time you waste on convenience.
               | 
               | You can cook a lot of inexpensive and healthy food in
               | less than an hour. Protein, veg, complex carbs. Get a wok
               | and do some stir fry - you can make a meal in literally 5
               | minutes then.
        
               | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
               | > Get a wok and do some stir fry - you can make a meal in
               | literally 5 minutes then.
               | 
               | I own a wok and stir fry is my go to meal- I can't make
               | meals in 5 minutes. I take the time to cut
               | vegetables/protein, then clean up afterwards. And if
               | you're going from pre-cut frozen it takes more than 5
               | minutes to thaw???
               | 
               | I agree that stir fry is a fast easy meal but I really
               | disagree with this exaggeration of its speed. It makes
               | the argument disingenuous.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | Cooking and cleaning up from even a simple meal takes at
               | a minimum 10x the amount of time that a 3 minute drive
               | through a fast food place costs.
        
               | vikingerik wrote:
               | Making simple meals takes just a few minutes.
               | 
               | My most common lunch is a salad that takes all of 5
               | minutes to chop the vegetables. My most common dinner is
               | a bowl of steamed vegetables that takes seconds to throw
               | in the microwave, and a baked potato that takes seconds
               | to put in the toaster oven a half-hour ahead of time.
               | Oatmeal or eggs for breakfast take five minutes or less
               | too.
               | 
               | Unless you really work incredible hours, like a 16 to 24
               | hour medical shift or something, citing time as a reason
               | not to prepare food is either looking for an excuse or
               | way overshooting on the complexity needed.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | Time is valuable whether you work 16 hour days or 2 hour
               | days.
               | 
               | Wasting it on mindless things like chopping vegetables or
               | washing pots and pans is of course a choice you are free
               | to make, but it is a foolish one in my view.
               | 
               | It's usually about 2x the time to clean up after a meal
               | than it is to actually prepare it, in my experience. The
               | cooking is easy, but cooking makes a mess of the stove,
               | of the pots and pans, of the utensils, et c.
        
               | manmal wrote:
               | I've never cleaned up longer than 5 minutes after a meal,
               | and I'm cooking 1-2x a day for a family of four. Cook
               | just one dish, ideally in a single pan/pot or in the
               | oven. Get a pressure cooker for one-pot-dishes, ideally a
               | smart one with auto-shutdown. Get machine-washable
               | utensils. Get a self-cleaning stove (who cares about the
               | mess anyway). Coated pans can just be rinsed with a soft
               | brush and dried immediately (only smelly stuff like fish
               | needs to be soaked).
        
               | windowsrookie wrote:
               | Are you kidding me? No it absolutely does not. I make
               | every single one of my meals in less than 15 minutes
               | including cleanup time. I have been doing this for 10+
               | years.
               | 
               | It would be at least a 15 minute round trip to the drive
               | thru from my house and would cost 5x as much and be 10x
               | less healthy.
        
             | least wrote:
             | It kind of comes down to wealth and the average American is
             | significantly wealthier than the average Indian (or average
             | a lot of countries). Wealth affords you time for things
             | that you care to pursue rather than things you have to. For
             | an American this translates to a lot of people not spending
             | much time in the kitchen.
             | 
             | It could perhaps be perceived as laziness when you deride
             | whatever replacement someone chooses over basic chores
             | they're no longer responsible for but really this is you
             | conflating leisurely activities as lazy.
             | 
             | I personally enjoy cooking but not everyone does and them
             | choosing to pay to not have to do that is their choice.
        
               | MomoXenosaga wrote:
               | Yeah that's just coping. America is fat and lazy and it
               | makes us superior to those untermensch who try to feed
               | their kids responsibly.
               | 
               | You know it's okay to criticize the environment you grow
               | up in right? It's how society improves.
        
             | nkohari wrote:
             | This is a very broad statement. It's likely true in some
             | cases, but access to food is wildly different depending on
             | where you live and how much you make.
             | 
             | Consider these individuals (not meant as an exhaustive list
             | of archetypes):
             | 
             | 1. A high-income American who lives in a large city, owns a
             | car and/or can afford grocery delivery
             | 
             | 2. A middle-income American who lives in the suburbs and
             | has access to a grocery store, but is price-sensitive when
             | it comes to food
             | 
             | 3. A low-income American without access to a car, who lives
             | in a "food desert" in a large city and does most of their
             | shopping at a bodega/corner market
             | 
             | 4. An American who lives in a rural area without a grocery
             | store for several miles
             | 
             | The way these people engage with food is wildly different,
             | and only those in the first group could be rationally
             | considered "lazy" if they chose processed food.
             | 
             | If your goal is simply to feed yourself and your family,
             | you're likely going to optimize more for calories-per-
             | dollar than you are than for freshness. When compared to
             | processed food, fresh produce is actually incredibly
             | expensive.
        
             | uselesscynicism wrote:
             | Gotta love the casual racism in this comment. This guy
             | knows what every American's wages are and what their lives
             | are like. All 350 million of us, from Alabama to
             | California, this guy is the expert on their situations and
             | he's got the diagnosis! It's just laziness that causes
             | Americans to buy processed foods, and soda!
        
             | Teknoman117 wrote:
             | Privileged, certainly. I take exception to the "laziness"
             | accusation though.
             | 
             | We all have a finite amount of time on this planet, and
             | replacing menial tasks with things that are interesting or
             | enriching should be considered one of the more positive
             | things one can do for their own life. It's like what they
             | say about being rich/wealthy. Many people (I blame media
             | mostly) think about the luxury items and lifestyle that one
             | can purchase, but the real win is that fact that you don't
             | have to anything you don't want to do ever again. You can
             | choose exactly how you are going to live your life.
             | 
             | I don't personally believe life has a purpose or meaning,
             | and I've become content to just wander the world finding
             | interesting things until the end of it.
        
               | mypalmike wrote:
               | Cooking food that is good for your body is not menial -
               | it's central to living. Many people these days (myself
               | even relatively recently) might choose a TV dinner so
               | they don't miss any of that critical episode of House
               | Hunters rather than spend 20 minutes throwing together a
               | stir fry from raw ingredients. It is a lazy choice.
        
               | Viliam1234 wrote:
               | Some meals are so easy to cook that you could actually
               | watch the TV while cooking, only looking away for a few
               | moments, usually while cutting ingredients. (Then there
               | are other meals where such approach would most likely
               | result in burning the meal.)
        
               | manmal wrote:
               | Yep. I often listen to audiobooks while cooking - ideal
               | for shutting down after work.
        
               | apocolyps6 wrote:
               | All I'm seeing from your comment is insulting OP's desire
               | to not spend time cooking, and shaming it as being lazy.
               | You don't even bother to back up your claim that it's not
               | menial. Is shame really all you have to bring to the
               | conversation?
        
               | phonypc wrote:
               | By the same token, OP was being insulting to people who
               | choose to cook, and shaming it as being uninteresting.
               | 
               | I don't think it's the most charitable interpretation in
               | either case.
        
               | 8note wrote:
               | Assumption: cooking isn't interesting or enriching.
               | 
               | I think you could replace HN time with cooking, and it
               | would be both more interesting and saving money
               | definitely makes it more enriching
        
               | PostThisTooFast wrote:
               | You should've taken exception to the opposite. Relying on
               | processed junk isn't privileged; it's lazy.
        
         | milesvp wrote:
         | I can tell you that for me personally, it's a way to get a
         | small bump of caffeine. I've learned to drink more tea in the
         | last few years, but having strong bitter receptors make coffee
         | a flat out no.
        
         | wil421 wrote:
         | A ton of fast food to fast casual places offer it with meals so
         | people just drink it. I usually get unsweet tea instead (no
         | it's not the tea you are thinking of). Mexico consumes the most
         | Sodas and beats the US despite having a much smaller
         | population.
         | 
         | Most people I know who actually buy soda and bring it to their
         | home either don't drink alcohol or coffee. Plenty of Indian's
         | drink tea and there are probably street vendors who sell sugar
         | cane juice or fresh squeezed fruit.
         | 
         | Everyone has their vices. Lots of people chew Paan and betel
         | leaf but you'd never hear about it in the US.
        
           | dhosek wrote:
           | In Mexico, there's also the fact that soda is often the most
           | easily available source of clean water. When I was in rural
           | Chiapas and Guatemala ca 1992, I think I drank very little
           | that wasn't soda during that time.1
           | 
           | 1. Because the glass bottles were fairly precious by local
           | economic standards, soda would be served "to go" in a plastic
           | bag with a straw and a rubber band to keep it closed.
        
             | wil421 wrote:
             | Yes I've had the bag method in Costa Rica. They wouldn't
             | even let me touch the bottle.
        
         | KorematsuFredt wrote:
         | > I live in India and flavored soda is considered luxury item
         | here.
         | 
         | I worked for a B-School program which looked at growth
         | opportunities for Cola in India.
         | 
         | One of the challenges were lack of electricity in large parts
         | of the country. Even those who had electricity did not get it
         | for 24x7. Those who had it uninterrupted could not afford to
         | buy a freezer. This prevented the whole appeal of cold drinks
         | that are not cold. Coca Cola and Pepsi invested heavily in
         | refrigeration technologies as they mass imported cheap fridges
         | and offered them for free. But electricity being government
         | controlled remains a luxury in India. Coca Cola and Pepsi did
         | crazy things to solve this problem including creating tie ups
         | with ice makers who supply ice slabs for special events to
         | brine based coolers than can keep things cool for 12 hours.
         | 
         | The results however were stunning. From 2016 to 2020, India has
         | doubled the per capita consumption of cola per year to around
         | 88 bottles. I think it is fair to assume that the ceiling for
         | this number is around 1500 bottles per year because both USA
         | and Mexico consume that much soda. Given the income difference
         | between both countries I think that is an upper bound.
         | 
         | USA has 30x of India's per capita income but only 20x more soda
         | consumption. Which makes me think Indians are going to hit that
         | 1500 bound much much sooner than expected.
         | 
         | Note:
         | 
         | Some of our research results were fascinating and
         | counterintuitive.
         | 
         | People preferred Coca Cola because it was "healthy" to a
         | locally produced freshly squeezed sugarcane juice. The
         | reasoning was that while the juicer center does not even have a
         | food department clearance and is unsanitary, people had more
         | faith in soft drink manufacturers quality control. Ice mixed
         | with sugar cane juice was often transported via two wheelers,
         | kept on the road and smashed into smaller pieces with a hammer.
         | 
         | When people were convinced that the sugar cane juice was
         | produced in extremely clean fashion people preferred it over
         | coke and were willing to even pay more than coke.
         | 
         | Companies like Paperboat in India have come into existence from
         | these sort of insights.
        
         | websap wrote:
         | It tastes delicious and its super cheap. 36 cans at costco are
         | about 10 dollars. I love having one after lunch or in the
         | evenings when I'm unwinding.
         | 
         | No calories, better than alcohol and the delight.
         | 
         | The only thing is if I drink a lot of it in a week, I sort of
         | get used to the taste.
         | 
         | Also Coke Zero is the only one that I've found that doesn't
         | have an artificial taste to it. Things like Sprite Zero have a
         | very odd after taste.
         | 
         | I'm originally from India, so I can understand your
         | apprehension, but a diet soda is really cheap here.
        
         | switchbak wrote:
         | When I was a kid and I'd visit my Dad he always had 'pop'
         | around, and it was just something we'd power through without
         | thinking. I'm not sure if I even thought that it was bad for me
         | in a concrete way. It was just super sweet and felt 'fun'.
         | 
         | When I was 19 I worked at a tech company with unlimited pop
         | available. The 15lbs of additional weight caused me to look at
         | it a whole different way, and broke that habit pretty fast!
         | 
         | Now the only time I have Coke is after a huge endurance event,
         | otherwise it's just way too much.
        
         | ashtonkem wrote:
         | Unrelated, but it's "pop", "soda", "soda pop", or "coke"
         | (regardless of brand) depending where in the US you are. It's a
         | regional dialect thing.
        
           | nicoburns wrote:
           | Does "coke" include non-cola flavoured beverages in parts of
           | the US? Here in the UK we tend to call them "fizzy drinks"
           | FWIW.
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
             | In the south-eastern US, it's totally normal to order an
             | "orange Coke" (which Coca-Cola either does not make or does
             | not call "Coke" at a minimum).
        
               | dhosek wrote:
               | I can kind of see how that came about--my kids would
               | assume that any soda I drank was a diet coke and would
               | refer to orange soda as orange diet coke.
        
             | nyx wrote:
             | In the American South, you're likely to hear "coke"
             | regardless of whether it's actually Coke, or even cola-
             | flavored. It's "pop" up north, and "soda" in the northeast
             | and southwest (plus a couple of pockets near Milwaukee and
             | St. Louis, which would otherwise be "pop" territory -
             | fascinating stuff).
        
               | tombert wrote:
               | Whenever I would visit family in Louisiana, it was pretty
               | common to go to restaurants, and even at places that
               | exclusively served Pepsi products, asking "what kind of
               | Coke do you want?"
        
             | zeku wrote:
             | Yep. Coke is every carbonated sugar drink. You have to get
             | all the way to la croix for it to stop being a coke. South-
             | Eastern USA aka "The American South"
        
             | JoeAltmaier wrote:
             | Here's some interesting regional US dialect maps:
             | 
             | https://www.rd.com/list/regional-sayings-phrases-words/
        
         | LAC-Tech wrote:
         | > I am ignorant in this topic, but why do americans seem to
         | drink soda( pop as they call in cinema) excessively ? I live in
         | India and flavoured soda is considered luxury item here.
         | 
         | You answered your own question - because America is wealthy and
         | Soda is cheap.
         | 
         | I'm in New Zealand and soda was definitely a luxury growing up.
         | But here it cost 14.57 USD for an 18 pack, while for a 24 pack
         | in the states it's 10.22 USD. So almost half the price.
        
           | ne0flex wrote:
           | There's the fact that soda is packed with sugar and people
           | getting addicted to the dopamine hits. [1][2]
           | 
           | [1]https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/addicted-to-soda
           | [1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6488513/
           | 
           | In the case of diet soda, I assume that since most people
           | already start drinking regular soda, there's a placebo
           | effect.
        
         | swayvil wrote:
         | Marketing. Lots of marketing. Mind control is real.
         | 
         | If they told us to cut off our nose today you'd see a lot of
         | noseless Americans tomorrow.
        
         | hansoolo wrote:
         | It's such a good question! And all the answers here are "it's
         | cheap" or "I'm used to it" or "I only drink the sugar free
         | version"... Why is there no self reflection? Everyone's getting
         | pested by theses corporations. "I don't like the bland taste of
         | water." wtf is wrong with you?! Some people in the world have
         | to walk miles to get water! And we could have it from the tap.
         | Just drink it from the tap! Seriously, I thought people were
         | smart in here, but all these answers...
        
       | w0mbat wrote:
       | It has been known for a while that people who switch from regular
       | soda to diet soda (and make no other changes) do not lose weight.
       | This is a crazy result given the calorie difference, so there
       | must be something going on.
       | 
       | Somehow the body is reacting badly to the dissappoinment of not
       | getting all the promised calories that it tasted. Either
       | triggering cravings that drive people to make up the deficit
       | elsewhere or causing the digestive system to change gear in some
       | way. It is now known that there are sweetness receptors in the
       | gut, so this flow of what the body thinks is undigested sugar may
       | make things go haywire. Anyway, it's not my field, but I find it
       | interesting.
        
         | stormbrew wrote:
         | I think it's generally true that "people who do X (and make no
         | other changes)" do not lose weight for all values of X except
         | some very unhealthy things, and those unhealthy things are
         | generally followed by rebound weight gain anyways.
         | 
         | Almost everything to do with weight loss verges on pseudo-
         | science and the field is constantly flooded with misinformation
         | from people peddling something. Focusing on weight loss as a
         | goal in and of itself is thus pretty much always a road to pain
         | anyways.
        
         | chithanh wrote:
         | Worse, artificial sweeteners are used in animal farming to make
         | animals gain more weight. This is due to a combination of
         | factors, both increasing appetite as well as feed efficiency.
        
         | manmal wrote:
         | One of the reasons seems to be insulin levels:
         | https://www.mentalfoodchain.com/aspartame/
        
       | twirlock wrote:
       | This is the kind of thing countless people already realize. There
       | are simple reasons to suspect this happens. But hipsters will
       | still say "nuh uh" because they cannot tolerate the notion of
       | useful information that doesn't come from a big shiny ostensible
       | authority that tells them they're sophisticated.
        
       | iamricks wrote:
       | Just want to add this here, artificial sweeteners are a blessing,
       | specially for people with slower metabolisms. Food in the US is
       | loaded with sugars, its nice to have a way to minimize
       | consumption while satisfying cravings. You cannot argue that
       | being obese is better than consuming artificial sweeteners.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
        
         | manmal wrote:
         | Aspartame is not without issues:
         | https://www.mentalfoodchain.com/aspartame/
         | 
         | Allulose looks promising and tastes like real sugar (I've tried
         | it), hope it will be used more widely.
        
       | porb121 wrote:
       | everyone points to a "hunger response" or something similar with
       | non nutritive sweeteners and then these effects don't materialize
       | in actual outcomes:
       | https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/obr.13020
       | 
       | "Grouping by nature of comparator revealed that NNS vs placebo/no
       | intervention and NNS vs water produced no effect."
       | 
       | so like, there's a food craving, and then ???? you don't gain
       | weight. who cares! maybe you eat more in the next meal, and then
       | it's not clear this persists into a real caloric surplus.
        
         | brodouevencode wrote:
         | Adipose storage is much more sophisticated than just simple
         | excess calories.
        
           | JasonFruit wrote:
           | In practice, "Do I have excess calories?" is an excellent
           | approximation for "Am I gaining weight?"
        
             | manmal wrote:
             | The problem with this is that ,,excess calories" is a
             | moving target. Insulin and thyroid hormone levels have a
             | say in that, too.
        
           | porb121 wrote:
           | so how come nobody gets fatter drinking nns's vs placebo or
           | water or no intervention
        
       | petecooper wrote:
       | I was hooked on Pepsi Max in the early 2000s. A high pressure
       | tech support role at an antivirus vendor was the perfect
       | environment for me to blast through a 2 litre bottle on a typical
       | work day. That habit almost broke me physically, ended up binging
       | and had a mini nervous breakdown within 2 years. Not recommended.
        
         | falcor84 wrote:
         | I would assume that the "high pressure tech support role" also
         | had a lot to do with it
        
           | subsubzero wrote:
           | yeah, stress can do terrible things to your body, affect
           | nervous system function, cognitive impairment, major stomach
           | issues, affect the heart and its function, and on and on..
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Just n = 1 as well, but I've been drinking around 3 litres of
         | diet coke per day for the past 15-20 years and haven't had any
         | adverse physical effects.
        
           | kyleee wrote:
           | Jesus, any plans to donate your body to science at some point
           | to study the effects of such high consumption?
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | I ingest twice that amount of sucralose every day and I'm
             | fine, too.
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | Do you consume other caffeinated beverages like coffee or
           | tea?
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | I don't, or only very rarely. I like cold beverages, and I
             | like the coke taste, to the point that I even drink
             | caffeine-free coke in the evening.
        
           | DantesKite wrote:
           | The only thing that worries me about diet coke is what it may
           | do to the gut microbiome and how it lowers Vitamin D levels
           | in the body.
           | 
           | Other than that, far, far better than regular coke, which
           | should be banned for people under the age of 21.
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | That's impressive. I thought I needed an intervention because
           | the other day I managed to drink an entire six pack of Pepsi
           | Zero Sugar in one day. Maybe I shouldn't worry so much...
        
           | lloydgrossman wrote:
           | 50/50 shot that you aren't aware of the adverse effects it is
           | having.
        
             | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
             | If they aren't aware, is it even that adverse?
        
               | judge2020 wrote:
               | Many potential side-effects might be invisible until it's
               | already gotten to the point of causing damage. Think lung
               | cancer in smokers that don't destroy the body for
               | decades[0], or the amount of people with prediabetes that
               | won't know until their blood glucose level qualifies them
               | for a type 2 diagnoses.
               | 
               | 0: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/14100915
               | 4007.h...
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | Well, studies so far seem to be inconclusive overall, so
             | I'm hoping for the best. :)
        
           | wcunning wrote:
           | 1.5 liters of Diet Coke a day here, plus quite a bit of
           | coffee and I'm also doing ok. No real signs of moderate or
           | severe dehydration either, maybe mild, but very mild if so.
        
             | chucksta wrote:
             | I'm not sure if your point is you would be dehydrated from
             | the caffeine, but that not true;
             | https://time.com/5192272/coffee-tea-dehydrating/
             | https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-
             | and-h...
        
           | Apocryphon wrote:
           | Ah, classic
           | 
           | https://www.theonion.com/man-who-drinks-5-diet-cokes-per-
           | day...
        
           | bradlys wrote:
           | Same. I'm on caffeine free now but I haven't kicked the
           | entire habit yet.
           | 
           | That said - it's much easier to drink just water now. No
           | caffeine headaches and such. Can't actually drink the
           | caffeinated diet coke anymore - get sick from it. Super
           | weird.
        
       | JohnWhigham wrote:
       | This article is nothing new, we've known this. Body sees sweet
       | thing, releases insulin in anticipation, but there's no calories
       | to process. And now you've just increased your insulin
       | resistance.
        
         | comrh wrote:
         | Iirc aspartame hasn't been shown to increase insulin release
        
         | matthewdgreen wrote:
         | There's also some evidence that artificial sweeteners affect
         | the composition of the gut microbiome [1], which could be more
         | influential (over the long term) than the taste/insulin theory.
         | See also: evidence that different sweeteners have different
         | impact on gut bacteria, which could make it easier to test
         | which effect is more significant.
         | 
         | [1] e.g., https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6363527/
        
           | davidcbc wrote:
           | Not for aspartame, which is the primary sweetener used in
           | diet sodas
           | 
           | > So far, only saccharin and sucralose (NNSs) and stevia (NS)
           | change the composition of the gut microbiota.
        
             | matthewdgreen wrote:
             | The results are all over the place. Some articles says
             | continuous _low-dose_ aspartame has effects [1], others say
             | that aspartame has other effects on quorum sensing [2]. I
             | 'm not in this area so I can't judge any of this work, I
             | just think it's interesting.
             | 
             | [1] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/jo
             | urnal... [2] https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/22/18/9863
        
             | perl4ever wrote:
             | People talk a lot about stevia, and it's prominently
             | displayed on packaging, but then when I look at the
             | ingredients, the sweetener is actually mostly sugar
             | alcohols.
             | 
             | Is stevia ever used alone? If it's just a "fig leaf" so to
             | speak, then perhaps the health effects of the sugar
             | alcohols would be more relevant.
        
         | sudosysgen wrote:
         | Yeah this is straight up just false. Insulin is not released
         | based on taste, that would be very problematic. Some studies
         | have found very low levels of insulin based on taste and
         | feelings of eating but that's it.
        
           | steanne wrote:
           | no, it's good planning. cephalic phase insulin release.
        
             | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
             | Based upon this meta study, it seems that, while there is
             | some evidence for CPIR, it doesn't do much.
             | 
             | https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/11/5/1364/5855277
        
             | sudosysgen wrote:
             | Cephalic phase insulin release has not been demonstrated
             | based purely on sweet taste of liquids. Some studies show
             | no effect, others find a very weak effect on the order of
             | 1% of actually eating.
        
         | 11235813213455 wrote:
         | another similar thing is chewing-gums. Body starts chewing,
         | produce more saliva, and some enzymes, but nothing comes down
         | as expected. Or reversly, when food is not chewed, the body
         | misses an important step
        
         | davidcbc wrote:
         | This is a common myth, but most diet sodas use aspartame, not
         | sucralose. No link between aspartame and insulin levels has
         | been found.
         | 
         | https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/artificial-sweeteners-b...
        
         | icodestuff wrote:
         | Yeah I thought we already knew this. Maybe not for sucralose
         | specifically?
        
         | hirundo wrote:
         | I've done much N=1 testing of this proposition with a blood
         | glucose monitor, and haven't found it to be true for me. I get
         | a spike when I drink something sweet and sugary, but not when I
         | drink something sweetened with sucralose, aspartame, stevia,
         | etc.
        
           | godshatter wrote:
           | Same here. It also doesn't interrupt my fasting in a
           | noticeable way, so I don't think the insulin delivered is
           | enough to really worry about.
        
           | ashtonkem wrote:
           | The theory is that you'd see a _drop_ in blood sugar after
           | drinking something with an artificial sweetener not a spike.
        
             | hirundo wrote:
             | I don't see an identifiable reaction, though perhaps some
             | statistics can pull one out. The reaction from a sugary
             | drink is consistent and dramatic.
        
               | ashtonkem wrote:
               | I'm not entirely certain myself if artificial sweeteners
               | cause insulin spikes, but it's worth pointing out the
               | difference in numbers between high and low blood sugar.
               | Normal blood sugar is what, 90-100 mg/dl or so, while the
               | diagnostic criteria for low blood sugar starts at 70
               | mg/dl. Meanwhile symptoms for high blood sugar start
               | above 200 (or even sometimes 300) mg/dl. Presumably
               | cravings for sugary foods kicks in well above 70mg/dl
               | too.
               | 
               | Simply put a spike in blood sugar due to a sugary food is
               | much, much bigger than the drop in blood sugar sufficient
               | to trigger a change in eating habits. And that's before
               | we consider the impact of non-insulin hormones on our
               | behavior, such as Ghrelin, which won't show up on a blood
               | glucose test at all.
        
           | Paedor wrote:
           | Aren't you measuring glucose instead of insulin though? I
           | might expect a spike in insulin after a spike in glucose, but
           | the other way around doesn't seem as likely.
        
       | winternett wrote:
       | The key is to only drink it during a meal, and not outside of
       | meals perhaps then.
       | 
       | The amount and kinds of artificial sweeteners in each drink could
       | well be reduced and varied by manufacturers, but time and time
       | again they choose not to, but if you look at the alternatives of
       | water every time or drinks that are also very high in sugar on
       | the inverse, diet drinks are a blessing for many people.
        
       | turtlebits wrote:
       | If you want to cut sugar, but want something sweet, stay away
       | from sucralose, splenda, aspartame.
       | 
       | Some good alternatives are stevia, monkfruit, and the sugar
       | alcohols (xylitol, erythritol, etc). I don't especially like the
       | taste of stevia, but stevia + monkfruit blends aren't so bad.
        
         | manmal wrote:
         | Allulose tastes like real sugar. Unfortunately it's quite
         | expensive and not widely studied. It's available in the US, but
         | not (yet) in the EU.
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | I'm concerned that nutrition policy has been so confusing and
       | unable to produce healthful outcomes
        
       | omega3 wrote:
       | I've managed to replace my coke zero habit very quickly with
       | sparkling water.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | My dad did the same and has been relatively happy with the
         | decision.
        
       | sabujp wrote:
       | coke zero with 700 calorie per slice pizza where i end up eating
       | 3-4 slices
        
         | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
         | Man, what toppings are you having on your pizza? That's an
         | impressively calorific slice.
        
           | sabujp wrote:
           | 1 costco pepperoni slice is 700 calories iirc, i can't eat 4
           | costco slices, but i assume a greasy pizza hut slice from a
           | large pie is close?
        
             | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
             | A whole personal pizza comes close, but typically the
             | slices are under 300 calories. I haven't had a Costco pizza
             | slice in a while, but aren't they enormous?
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | Tricking your body into thinking you ate sweet things does not
       | sound like a winning strategy in the long run.
       | 
       | I heard a speculation recently from a science vlogger, I think he
       | was citing a paper, but as a side comment to the fact that humans
       | have taste buds elsewhere in our bodies, that it's possible that
       | when the artificial sweetener is in your intestines, your body
       | makes an effort to absorb the 'sugars' that it senses, but in the
       | process ends up absorbing some of the ambient sugar in your GI
       | tract that otherwise would have not been captured, or used by gut
       | microbes, throwing the whole balance off in the process. So in
       | effect sugar free foods still have a caloric cost from a diet
       | perspective.
       | 
       | Then there's sugar alcohols, which are edible by bad gut microbes
       | but not by you.
        
         | delecti wrote:
         | > Tricking your body into thinking you ate sweet things does
         | not sound like a winning strategy in the long run.
         | 
         | What are you comparing it to though? If you're deciding between
         | diet soda and water, then it's hard to make a health case for
         | diet soda. But if you're deciding between diet or regular soda,
         | then diet soda starts to look a lot better.
        
       | kingrazor wrote:
       | I drank soda throughout my childhood and really ramped up how
       | much I drank when I got into college and finally had a bit of
       | disposable income. At a certain point I was easily drinking a
       | gallon per day. The thing that finally got me to stop was that I
       | started getting throat ulcers every time I drank it. I'd been
       | getting them for years up to that point, but much more
       | sporadically. Once I stopped drinking soda, no more throat
       | ulcers. When I need a carbonation fix I go for seltzer water now.
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
       | An example of a anti-meme "Diet soda is good for you"
       | 
       | If the above is true, what would be the emerging patterns in
       | science, media and society?
        
       | vortico wrote:
       | This is specifically a study for sucralose (e.g. Splenda). Most
       | diet drinks in the US and other countries are aspartame (e.g.
       | Equal).
        
         | goda90 wrote:
         | Though the mechanisms they hypothesize about might apply to
         | other artificial sweeteners.
         | 
         | I see sucralose in a lot of processed foods, especially ones
         | trying to pretend to be healthy. It's a shame that it's hard to
         | find unsweetened sliced bread in some stores.
        
           | teorema wrote:
           | FWIW, sucralose has also been linked to C diff infection.
           | 
           | It's worth maybe pointing out that this study was based on
           | sucralose, just because it seems this sweetener is worth
           | tracking separately in general. I don't really consume things
           | with artificial sweeteners but sucralose is starting to
           | become a concern of mine (eg for my daughter).
        
           | phonypc wrote:
           | You won't get the characteristic texture of sliced bread
           | without sugar or some replacement. Its primary role isn't
           | really sweetening.
        
           | dhosek wrote:
           | I think the sugar ingredient in bread is partly to feed the
           | yeast, but if you start looking at ingredients, you'll find
           | sweeteners in almost all the packaged foods, from lunch meats
           | to soup.
        
             | ectopod wrote:
             | Plenty of bread is made with just flour, water, salt and
             | yeast. Even the very cheapest own-brand sliced white loaf
             | in my local UK supermarket has no sugar.
             | 
             | American bread has sugar because it's cheap and Americans
             | like it.
        
           | Daegalus wrote:
           | Dave's Bread brand has a few low sugar or fruit juice
           | sweetened breads. much healthier than other options. I have
           | also found a couple of sourdoughs with no added sugar at all.
        
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