[HN Gopher] Eidos-Montreal Offices shifting to the 4 day work week
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       Eidos-Montreal Offices shifting to the 4 day work week
        
       Author : uglygoblin
       Score  : 119 points
       Date   : 2021-10-07 15:04 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.eidosmontreal.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.eidosmontreal.com)
        
       | wly_cdgr wrote:
       | Progress! Bit by bit
        
       | satvikpendem wrote:
       | Rather than a 4 day work week, I always thought that a 4 hour
       | work day was far superior (or at least, a 4 day work week of 5
       | hour work days; 20 hours a week total). You're not truly doing 8
       | hours of full work a week, so why not focus the time down to only
       | productive hours? Here's an interesting article about it [0].
       | 
       | [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2021/05/28/the-
       | future...
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | You're assuming that by working fewer hours you'd magically
         | eliminate _only the unproductive hours_. That seems extremely
         | unlikely.
         | 
         | I read an article years ago from someone that tried it,
         | expecting exactly what you're expecting, but they found that
         | proportional of their working time that was productive was
         | about the same.
        
       | throwawaysea wrote:
       | There is probably an inflection point we've silently passed,
       | where increased consolidation, high standards of living, and
       | diminishing value in additional productivity mean that we can
       | reduce the amount of work we need to do. However defending it
       | will also require bold coalition building and trade policy.
       | Countries that want to give their citizens a better life through
       | shorter work weeks cannot do so if they're competing against
       | other countries where workers are willing or forced to commit to
       | 996 hours. Defending a better work week means enacting tariffs or
       | other controls against trade partners that don't share the same
       | policy, just as we should with offshored environmental
       | violations.
        
       | TwinProduction wrote:
       | Will their salaries be lowered to match the new number of hours
       | per week?
        
         | tomstuart wrote:
         | No:
         | 
         | > In the next few weeks, the Montreal and Sherbrooke studios
         | will be officially closed on Fridays, without changing the
         | working conditions currently in place nor the salaries of
         | employees, thus switching from the 40-hour week to 32-hour.
        
           | sdf131 wrote:
           | They're likely earning ~40-70k so the shift isn't very
           | significant
           | 
           | The real question is: are they changing the deadlines? Studio
           | already suffer from crunch and all the meetings you had on
           | Friday are now spread throughout the week
        
             | 908B64B197 wrote:
             | > They're likely earning ~40-70k so the shift isn't very
             | significant
             | 
             | On an annual basis some internships are better paid. Where
             | do these folks hire?
        
             | Karawebnetwork wrote:
             | > They're likely earning ~40-70k so the shift isn't very
             | significant
             | 
             | Exactly. I don't work in the video-game industry, but the
             | local (Quebec) programmer scene is pretty small and
             | information travels fast.
             | 
             | I've been told by people that work there that the employer
             | already pays the equivalent of a 4 day week and that many
             | employees are quitting now that WFH has opened up the
             | market.
             | 
             | My personal understanding is that instead of increasing the
             | pay, they are betting that by cutting a day, people will
             | stay and keep the same level of crunch time.
        
               | 908B64B197 wrote:
               | > My personal understanding is that instead of increasing
               | the pay, they are betting that by cutting a day, people
               | will stay and keep the same level of crunch time.
               | 
               | How's the option package?
               | 
               | A credible company will have most employees in the core
               | business getting the majority of their revenue from the
               | stock performance. Switching to 4 days a week should
               | lower the number of release they can have per year...
        
               | NortySpock wrote:
               | "Crunch, and also crunch on Friday, which you now 'have
               | off' but since you are (by design, perpetually) behind,
               | we're going to need you to come in."
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | They live in Canada, their salaries are already lowered. This
         | will help them from leaving for better $ elsewhere.
        
           | slothtrop wrote:
           | It's the game industry, these salaries aren't generally high
           | in the U.S. either.
        
             | djmips wrote:
             | Don't forget the 20% exchange rate, and lower US taxes.
        
               | slothtrop wrote:
               | Don't forget the cost of living in Montreal vs any major
               | part of California.
        
       | imtringued wrote:
       | Instead of mandating that everyone should work a fixed work week
       | why not just let people decide how much they want to work? The 40
       | hour work week is just a "social construct". Let the unit of
       | labor be half a work day (4 hours) instead of a whole person. If
       | people want to work 24 or 32 or 44 hours let them.
       | 
       | The labor market isn't much of a market if you can't even do
       | something as basic as decide how much you want to work.
        
         | onion2k wrote:
         | Why base it on time at all? If I can be as effective in 20
         | hours as my coworker is in 40 hours, why not just pay us the
         | same salaries for the same value produced?
         | 
         | The fact I get stuff done twice as quickly shouldn't be a
         | factor unless I choose to work 40 hours and do twice as much as
         | him. Then I should be paid more.
        
           | bserge wrote:
           | That's called being a freelancer.
        
           | bosie wrote:
           | Do you work in a silo? never have any meetings, answer
           | questions that might span over a 40 hour time frame? How do
           | you figure out your value vs your co-workers value?
        
             | 0des wrote:
             | Your value is the amount of currency you exchange for an
             | acceptable amount of your free time.
        
         | aeyes wrote:
         | Because it works both ways, there are a lot of companies which
         | offer "unlimited vacations" on paper. In theory you could use
         | that to only work 3 days per week. In practice the employer
         | will just argue that you don't meet expected performance goals
         | (even if you do).
         | 
         | I work at a company which doesn't have any hours in the
         | contract. People are active from 10-7 in general. This is the
         | time where you have most overlap with your team and usually you
         | have some dependency on others. If you aren't available you are
         | letting your team down and again - you'll be flagged for not
         | meeting performance goals.
        
         | sokoloff wrote:
         | There's a market for people who want to work shorter workweeks.
         | It's not as crowded with employers as the "more common" market,
         | but it's there.
         | 
         | I can offer 0.5oz beers and if no one buys them, do I conclude
         | there's no market or a broken market for beer?
        
       | ekianjo wrote:
       | If they really believe in this they should stop half ass it and
       | work only one day a week for optimal productivity.
        
       | glonq wrote:
       | Age 49 here. I'm seriously considering that my next job should be
       | 3 or 4 days per week, even if that means a somewhat
       | proportionately reduced paycheck. Would fight for 4+ weeks
       | vacation too.
       | 
       | I need quality of life more than I need cash right now.
        
         | luxurytent wrote:
         | Do it!
         | 
         | I'm 36 and my current gig offers 5 weeks vacation, and I just
         | came back from 3 months (topped up) parental leave.
         | 
         | Life is too beautiful to work 5 days a week
        
         | autarch wrote:
         | I'm 47 and I just left my last job. I'm going to take some time
         | off, but I'm committed to only working 4 days per week or less
         | when I look for my next position.
        
         | lm28469 wrote:
         | I'm in my mid 20s and I'll never go back to 5 days workweek,
         | definitely go for it, it's a life changing move, no amount of
         | money makes up for time lost
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | christkv wrote:
       | Probably 4 days of 20h instead of 5 at 16h if it's anything like
       | other triple A publishers.
        
         | juice_bus wrote:
         | Come on man, its in the article:
         | 
         | > without changing the working conditions currently in place
         | nor the salaries of employees, thus switching from the 40-hour
         | week to 32-hour.
        
           | nohr wrote:
           | You can't expect them to release how much they're actually
           | working their employees. Games is a notoriously vicious cycle
           | of work.
        
           | MattGaiser wrote:
           | I wouldn't be quite that cynical, but gaming is known for
           | tons of extra hours.
           | 
           | All companies I have known with bad hours have also
           | officially had 40 hour weeks.
        
             | Jare wrote:
             | I want to point my finger at you and accuse you of cynicism
             | (sp?). But then I remember that colleague who was crunching
             | as a part time employee, and yeah you have all the right in
             | the world to be because gamedev has always been quite
             | fucked up.
             | 
             | I do believe (and hope to be correct) that many gamedev
             | studios are getting much better, but there's plenty still
             | to do.
        
           | christkv wrote:
           | Sure but one thing is saying it and the other thing is living
           | it. The hard deadlines of peak sales periods like Christmas
           | seem like are still constant drivers of death marches in that
           | industry.
           | 
           | Sentiments seems good but I'm skeptical.
        
       | akersten wrote:
       | In the spirit of always starting your negotiation high and
       | working toward a palatable middle, I'd like to propose a 2-day
       | work week and 5 days off.
       | 
       | You may think that sounds crazy, but how many hours of dedicated,
       | actual work do you do in a week? If you work a "9-5" and are
       | reading this comment at work right now, I can give you a hint:
       | it's not 40 ;)
       | 
       | I think we'd all be less distracted and more focused if we forced
       | the "week's work" to happen in 2 , 8-hour days, and we could feel
       | less guilty about not being perfectly-oiled constantly productive
       | machines for the remaining 5/7 days of the week.
        
         | poetaster wrote:
         | I have a frame. 28 hours. M/W/F I do 8 hours, am available. T/T
         | I do 2, alone. Sometimes I do more. I have the good fortune to
         | say when and where, but this gives me modalities and no one has
         | to wait too long and I get quality work time in both parts. Pay
         | is not that good, perks are.
        
         | endisneigh wrote:
         | that's an interesting idea, but wouldn't work.
         | 
         | my personal theory is that all uncertainty ultimately is
         | derived from the weather and cascades down. that is, even if
         | you eliminated inattention, carelessness, tardiness, and
         | laziness and what not, the weather would inevitably cause
         | accidents and other unpredictable things.
         | 
         | as a result much of the time people spend is actually just
         | waiting around for other people.
        
         | jstx1 wrote:
         | You can only compress things so much though. You can't just
         | tell people to show up and do only the productive n% of the
         | hours. You can't force 2 days of perfect productivity out of
         | people. That's not how any of this works. When you cut hours,
         | you're cutting productive and unproductive hours at the same
         | time, you don't get to cherry pick.
         | 
         | Or if you can cherry pick, go into management consulting -
         | you'll be able to squeeze so much more out of everyone who
         | still works full time by telling them to only do productive
         | things at work.
         | 
         | While we're at it, we can tell people who gamble to only go to
         | the casino on the days when they win.
        
           | akersten wrote:
           | My hypothesis is that most of our "unproductive time" in the
           | 40h workweek is just filler time spent warming seats, a
           | direct result of there actually not being all that much work
           | that a human can consistently accomplish in a week.
           | 
           | So, by removing the expectation that you have your butt in a
           | chair 8 hours a day 5 days a week, the new model is "get
           | everything you were already painfully stretching across 5
           | days done in only the time it actually takes (2 days), and
           | let's all go home and enjoy the free time we otherwise would
           | have spent scrolling on our phones under florescent lights
           | and quickly tabbing back to Excel when the boss walks by."
           | 
           | I truly do believe 95% of office-based business would get the
           | same "amount" of work done in this system.
        
         | bserge wrote:
         | Coming soon, the 0 day work week. No one needs lazy meatbags
         | when 10 robots can work 24/7.
        
           | throwaway889900 wrote:
           | Not until the robots can build themselves. Hah!
        
         | dont__panic wrote:
         | I wonder if the increasing shift toward remote work (often in
         | disparate timezones) will end up pushing teams to eventually
         | adopt 1-3 "core hours" 2-3 days per week with team meetings and
         | collaboration sessions and a more laissez-faire attitude toward
         | working the rest of the usual 9-5 day; I would love to just
         | focus on getting my work done any time I feel like it, attend
         | meetings during core hours, and have the ability to get out of
         | the house and go do things during the normal workweek.
        
         | BitwiseFool wrote:
         | In the 9-5's defense, a good chunk of my "downtime" at work is
         | due to waiting on other people and/or not having something I
         | can make progress on.
         | 
         | I would love less than a 40 hour work week where the effort is
         | more concentrated, but after a certain point you just can't
         | expect full productivity in a shorter space of time.
        
           | packetlost wrote:
           | This. If I'm chest deep in code (or other deep technical
           | stuff) I can get about 6 hours of real work a day before my
           | productivity nosedives. But that's maybe a once a week
           | occurrence. The rest of the week is shorter bursts of
           | productivity sprinkled between coordinating with teammates,
           | other teams, etc.. I don't think actually shortening my work
           | week would allow me to meaningfully be as productive with
           | what I currently do. That being said, I WFH some of the time
           | and I took like 30-40 min to vacuum my apartment and it had
           | basically zero effect on my productivity.
        
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