[HN Gopher] Investigators say they've finally identified the Zod...
___________________________________________________________________
Investigators say they've finally identified the Zodiac Killer
Author : afrcnc
Score : 232 points
Date : 2021-10-06 18:32 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.fox13now.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.fox13now.com)
| silksowed wrote:
| Mr. Cruz ? /s
| aquova wrote:
| So two new pieces of evidence are offered up by this article,
| firstly that Zodiac was identified by several witnesses as having
| a forehead scar, including being drawn on the famous sketch of
| him, which matches a scar Poste had at the time. Secondly, some
| sort of new solution to the cipher is possible by omitting
| Poste's full name in some way.
|
| As exciting as it would be, I always take these claims about
| famous cases being solved with a grain of salt. It seems they
| were also denied DNA evidence from another California case, and
| bringing up excitement about Zodiac might let them press the
| issue further. The scar I don't think is definitive proof by any
| means, but if there is some new explanation to one of the
| ciphers, I would be very interested in seeing it.
| koboll wrote:
| The guy REALLY looks like the police sketches too. Almost
| perfectly the same, except for maybe a slight difference in
| nose width.
| gremloni wrote:
| Does anyone else have issues with identifying and describing
| facial features. I have no problems recognizing people, but
| there's no way I can verbalize them on a specific features
| basis. What kind of disorder do I have?
| jahnu wrote:
| Perhaps the artists are trained to ask questions of
| witnesses that reveal details you wouldn't be able to give
| up unprompted?
| [deleted]
| polynomial wrote:
| Apparently there was also a paint-splattered watch recovered at
| the Bates killing scene (tied to ZK in 1975 by FBI) and he
| spent decades as a house painter. There was also a recovered
| boot print from that scene that apparently was a match to him.
|
| I guess we'll all have to wait for all the true crime podcasts
| to spill the rest of the beans.
| Bayart wrote:
| David Oranchak's video last on his, Sam Blake's and Jarl Van
| Eycke's cracking of Cipher Z-340 last year :
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1oQLPRE21o
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| johncessna wrote:
| Weird, I just finished watching Veritasium's [1] latest video
| which featured the techniques for finding the Golden State
| Killer, and saw this one come across the feed.
|
| [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT18KJouHWg
| nick_ wrote:
| Mr. Zodiac creates spooky mysteries even still...
| poundtown wrote:
| bit unsettling hearing about his posse.
| sfblah wrote:
| Well that's a relief. Now they can arrest and prosecute him!
| Shared404 wrote:
| > The Case Breakers say they have identified the Zodiac Killer
| as Gary Francis Poste, who passed away in 2018.
|
| It would appear not.
| romwell wrote:
| I believe the parent comment was a sarcastic remark on that
| very fact.
| Shared404 wrote:
| Yeah, I realized that a little too late :P .
|
| Usually I'm pretty decent at picking up sarcasm over the
| internet, but not today it turns out.
| julianapostate wrote:
| people on HN only use exclamation points in code or sarcasm
| kelseyfrog wrote:
| Thank you for pointing it out bluntly. For people like
| me, it does help to read the unwritten rules.
| romwell wrote:
| /s (for those only reading the comment section)
| misterbwong wrote:
| Not sure if missing a /s but FTA: The Case
| Breakers say they have identified the Zodiac Killer as Gary
| Francis Poste, who passed away in 2018.
| irrational wrote:
| Oh good, Ted "Cancun" Cruz will finally be put into prison.
|
| In all seriousness, my daughter in college was in a psychology
| class where they were talking about serial killers. The Zodiac
| killer came up and a guy in the class said, in all seriousness,
| "Isn't Ted Cruz the Zodiac killer?"
| ncmncm wrote:
| I, personally, know of no hard evidence that could conclusively
| prove that.
| [deleted]
| paxys wrote:
| The "investigators" mentioned are The Case Breakers, described
| (on their website) as "The elite team that's solving our greatest
| mysteries". No mention of their actual credentials or
| accomplishments.
| cyberge99 wrote:
| That's because they're still solving them.
|
| ;)
| ljm wrote:
| I imagine the Zodiac Killer was actually more than one person.
|
| Of course, this was back in the time when creating attractive
| codewords for dangerous criminals was the norm.
|
| Who's to say that the coded messages sent to newspapers weren't
| actually meant for other people involved in the activity?
| HPsquared wrote:
| I'm reminded of that scene in Hot Fuzz - "No luck catching them
| killers then?" .. "It's just the one killer actually!"
| speedybird wrote:
| The coded messages were handwritten. To my eye, they have the
| same handwriting. Occam's Razor is just a rule of thumb, but I
| think it applies here.
| codezero wrote:
| In the fox story, they note that he ran a criminal gang of
| about 3 people, and recruited young men looking for a father
| figure, so you might be right.
|
| They paint it as him being the primary one doing the bad things
| with the others as just lookouts/help w/ hiding evidence.
| caymanjim wrote:
| Is anyone familiar with Robert Graysmith's books on the Zodiac
| Killer? The Fincher film "Zodiac" is based on Graysmith's
| research/obsession. I don't think the film mentions anyone named
| Poste at all. I'm wondering if he ever came across Graysmith's
| radar.
| cf100clunk wrote:
| Loads of prior HN discussions on the solving of his cipher:
|
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
| romwell wrote:
| I believe the crowdsourced investigation has already yielded a
| veritable result[1]; I'm not sure why the case needed to continue
| being active.
|
| [1] https://www.tedcruzforhumanpresident.com/
| TedCancruz wrote:
| It was me!
| DaveSapien wrote:
| Nice try Ted Cruz...
| Ansil849 wrote:
| I feel like at least twice a year, there is some story like
| "Zodiac Killer Finally Identified" or "DB Cooper Finally Found".
| And behind these stories is usually just one person or group of
| people who are presenting their pet theory (which highlighted all
| facts supporting it, and conveniently brushes aside all facts
| which don't) and have savy media contacts so are able to get
| media exposure to help promote what's frequently accompanied by a
| book they are trying to sell copies of.
|
| I don't know if that's the case here, but this pattern of events
| has made me just tune out stories like this. I wish media outlets
| would be more critical.
| jmnicolas wrote:
| Don't forget Jack The Ripper!
| nobody9999 wrote:
| >Don't forget Jack The Ripper!
|
| That's a mystery long solved, friend[0].
|
| [0] https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Sebastian#History
| Diederich wrote:
| Emmy award nominated Babylon 5 episode!
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comes_the_Inquisitor
|
| One of the best, among many, of the series.
| fhood wrote:
| At least the Zodiac killer is recent enough for uncovering
| their identity to feel sort of feasible. That said, I
| personally find the idea of it being Ted Cruz so amusing that
| I see little reason to amend my head-canon, regardless of
| evidence presented.
| ubermonkey wrote:
| THIS.
| philwelch wrote:
| I believe that would require time travel.
| friedegg wrote:
| "Asked how a teenage boy could've committed a crime more
| than two decades ago, a police spokesman explained 'He's
| very clever.'"
| duskwuff wrote:
| > my head cannon
|
| The phrase you're thinking of is "headcanon" (cf.
| https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/canon), although "head
| cannon" evokes a much funnier mental image.
| fhood wrote:
| Despite knowing it was the same base as canonical, it
| somehow never occurred to me to spell it that way. Thanks
| for the heads up, but since google hasn't decided it
| approves of "headcanon" I was forced to compromise in my
| correction.
| dandelany wrote:
| I'm honestly so tired of hearing this lame conspiracy
| theory/in-joke. It's so dumb and trollish and barely funny,
| all it does is give ammo to repubs who think dems are
| wackadoos. Fellow dems, this ain't it.
| fhood wrote:
| That's cool and all, but I personally enjoy it because of
| Ted's personality specifically, not his specific
| political affiliation. And also who cares? It's clearly a
| joke, one that happens to appeal to my particular sense
| of humor.
|
| There are oodles of topics that provide plenty of
| political ammunition, but anybody who takes this one
| seriously is an idiot.
| dandelany wrote:
| Sorry, but I just recently watched a crowd of angry
| trolls sell memes and Internet in-jokes as facts to
| droves of angry Facebook users, and then they combined
| forces to elect a fascist. I no longer believe this kind
| of crap is inconsequential.
| [deleted]
| lqet wrote:
| I find this quite convincing:
|
| > In one note, the letters of Poste's full name were removed to
| reveal an alternate message, [Jen Bucholtz, a former Army
| counterintelligence agent] told Fox News.
|
| > "So you've got to know Gary's full name in order to decipher
| these anagrams," Bucholtz said. "I just don't think there's any
| other way anybody would have figured it out."
| Ansil849 wrote:
| > I find this quite convincing
|
| I would find evidence of it actually convincing, which you
| would think would be foregrounded somewhere. And yet,
| mysteriously, it is not. This suggests that the claim is
| bullshit.
| Pet_Ant wrote:
| I want to see the details because there have been some
| dubious decipherments before that were a real stretch, so I
| want to see how plausible the ananagram is.
| fullshark wrote:
| I don't understand, so they have a deciphered letter from
| zodiac, they removed the individual letters of Gary's name
| from the message and got a 2nd message? Is that right?
| celticninja wrote:
| I think that one message could not be fully decoded, there
| seemed to be some cruft in it. My guess is this cruft was
| no longer in the decoded message once the letters of his
| name are removed.
| exporectomy wrote:
| Stats or it didn't happen. That kind of seemingly incredible
| coincidence can sometimes just be the mind playing tricks on
| people who are unaware of how many ways a similar result
| could have occurred by chance.
| apeace wrote:
| This would indeed be convincing, but I can't seem to find any
| further information on it.
|
| Here is the Case Breaker's blog announcement[1]. And here is
| a press release from them with some details of their work[2].
|
| I'd really like to see this in action, but it seems like they
| haven't published it yet. Am I missing it?
|
| [1] https://thecasebreakers.org/2021/09/the-last-zodiac-
| victim/
|
| [2] https://secureservercdn.net/166.62.114.250/g9q.07b.myftpu
| plo...
| kelseyfrog wrote:
| I'm missing something here. I could create a coded message
| that required apeace to decipher. That doesn't necessarily
| mean that I'm you.
| philwelch wrote:
| But there's no reasonable motive for the Zodiac Killer to
| do so. If he wanted to frame Gary Poaste, he would plant
| evidence that was more obvious. If he wanted to toy with
| the detectives who were trying to discover his identity
| though--which is well within the pattern of behavior
| observed from the Zodiac Killer--this is exactly the sort
| of thing he would do.
| treesknees wrote:
| From the article
|
| > In one note, the letters of Poste's full name were removed to
| reveal an alternate message, she told Fox News. "So you've got
| to know Gary's full name in order to decipher these anagrams,"
| Bucholtz said. "I just don't think there's any other way
| anybody would have figured it out."
|
| To me it's pretty coincidental if the letters for this person's
| full name just happen to be this person who also has other
| characteristics matching the description including facial scars
| from one of the police sketches.
| Amezarak wrote:
| The facial scars in the sketch vs the photo seem like a huge
| stretch to me personally. It looks like they were just
| sketching normal forehead lines. And sketches are not exactly
| reliable in the first place. It really seems like someone
| desperately looking for a pattern where there isn't one.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| #1 This is a pretty big claim. Extraordinary claims require
| extraordinary evidence. And yet there is no evidence.
|
| -or-
|
| #2 It also sounds like they're saying if you remove various
| letters of the alphabet from a cipher, you can get a readable
| message. This is not notable.
| random314 wrote:
| #2 seems very notable
| codazoda wrote:
| It seems like even the article contradicts what this group
| says...
|
| > "Our Homicide Cold Case Unit has determined the murder of
| Cheri Jo Bates in 1966 is not related to the Zodiac killer,"
| the Riverside Police Department's Homicide Cold Case Unit told
| Fox News.
| bogwog wrote:
| It seems like the group asked the police department to test
| the DNA found in the Bates case to confirm it once and for
| all, but the police department has refused.
|
| So there's probably some internal politics thing going on
| here.
| pwinnski wrote:
| The FBI says it is related, the local PD says it is not, and
| to ask the FBI. The local PD is also refusing to do DNA tests
| which would resolve the issue.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| > The local PD is also refusing to do DNA tests which would
| resolve the issue.
|
| Yeah, mean ol' law enforcement, refusing to do DNA tests
| for any crank mystery squad solving team that demands them.
| tacocataco wrote:
| If the group wants to incurr the costs what does it
| matter?
| AlexCoventry wrote:
| It sounds like there's a little bit of presumed Zodiac-Killer
| DNA on his letters, and there's been some preliminary analysis
| of it. Hopefully this evidence is suggestive enough to justify
| a full comparison.
|
| https://medium.com/@charlierusso23/why-has-dna-evidence-not-...
| jfrunyon wrote:
| I don't know enough about the Zodiac Killer to determine whether
| or not this is true. But I do know that when the only
| $search_engine results to something are from one media network (a
| few Fox local & Fox News), and a tabloid... take it with a grain
| of salt.
| swayvil wrote:
| "Investigators" is one of those utterly ambiguous yet powerfully
| dominating terms, like "Authorities" and "Scientists".
|
| We build our epistemological hierarchies like it's 2000 BC.
| (Heck, like 2Billion BC, if you think of knowledge as a kind of
| termite-mound. Memes are the new pheromones). Fancy cellphones
| make no diff.
| panzagl wrote:
| And makers of true crime podcasts everywhere rejoiced...
| mauz wrote:
| Looking at the press release [1], it still feels relatively
| circumstantial to me. Not sure that we can deem the Zodiac Killer
| to be fully identified yet.
|
| It's definitely not nearly as cut and dry as when they identified
| the Golden State killer.
|
| [1]:
| https://secureservercdn.net/166.62.114.250/g9q.07b.myftpuplo...
| bena wrote:
| Do you know what circumstantial means?
|
| It doesn't mean "weak". It means "pertaining to circumstances".
|
| Nearly all evidence is circumstantial.
|
| DNA is circumstantial evidence. Fingerprints are circumstantial
| evidence. A smoking gun is circumstantial evidence.
|
| Trials are based on circumstantial evidence. Hans Reiser was
| arrested, tried, and convicted of murdering his wife based on
| nothing but circumstantial evidence that a murder even
| occurred. They didn't even have her body.
|
| If a lawyer would jump up and shout "Objection, evidence is
| circumstantial", the judge would look at them and say "Yeah, no
| shit, what's your actual objection?"
| space_rock wrote:
| People don't know how to judge evidence. So they think
| circumstantial evidence has no weight
| mjburgess wrote:
| Consult a dictionary, eg.,
|
| > pointing indirectly towards someone's guilt but not
| conclusively proving it.
|
| You are correct that within a technical legal context most
| evidence is circumstantial. But that isnt the only meaning of
| the word, and indeed, largely not what is meant.
| bena wrote:
| What they meant is wrong.
|
| I can consult Merriam Webster, which agrees with what I
| said. https://www.merriam-
| webster.com/dictionary/circumstantial%20...
|
| Or Britannica
|
| https://www.britannica.com/topic/circumstantial-evidence
|
| Or Cornell
|
| https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/circumstantial_evidence
|
| Or basically any single law firm or courthouse
|
| https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/legal-
| defenses/circumst...
|
| https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-
| library/abstracts/circumst...
|
| https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/1-General/CJI2d.Circums
| t...
|
| Yes, inferences must be made. But as a lot of those links
| mention, direct evidence (the other kind of evidence) is
| often worse as it's usually eyewitness accounts.
|
| Lazy television writers have done us all a disservice by
| repeated implication that circumstantial evidence isn't
| good enough.
| mannykannot wrote:
| Putting aside the very first paragraph ("What they meant
| is wrong"), this post makes some sound points.
|
| It is also the case that the alleged new evidence for
| Poste being the killer is, in fact, circumstantial with
| respect to the issue of who committed the murders in
| question.
|
| So, returning to that first paragraph, to establish
| whether what mauze meant is wrong, we must establish both
| that mauze meant something other than what was written,
| and that the intended meaning was wrong.
|
| I do not see any conclusive evidence as to what mause
| meant. Furthermore, bena's reply to mause suggests that
| the intended meaning was 'weak'. That strikes me as
| plausible, but as far as I can tell, it would not be an
| obviously wrong characterization of the new evidence.
| andrewzah wrote:
| https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/circumstantial
|
| 1. belonging to, consisting in, or dependent on
| circumstances
|
| 2. pertinent but not essential : incidental
|
| The original comment used the word correctly. Because
| dictionaries describe how people actually speak, not
| prescribe rules on how to use words. That's why they get
| updated every so often as word usages change.
| elliekelly wrote:
| But this is a word that has a technical meaning and a
| colloquial meaning. It doesn't make sense to apply the
| colloquial definition when a term is being used in the
| context of a technical discussion.
|
| In other words, the appropriate definition of a term of
| art is... circumstantial. ;)
| parineum wrote:
| > how people actually speak
|
| To counter that point, "circumstantial" has a legal
| meaning that does not change as easily.
| dctoedt wrote:
| The Cornell Law dictionary that you cited is a good
| summary of what lawyers and judges are likely to think:
| _Evidence that_ implies _a person committed a crime, (for
| example, the person was seen running away from the crime
| scene). There must be a lot of circumstantial evidence
| accumulated to have real weight. Compare to direct
| evidence._
| contravariant wrote:
| Usually when a particular interpretation of a word renders it
| utterly meaningless then that interpretation is not the
| correct one.
|
| In particular circumstantial _can_ mean 'pertaining to
| circumstance' or it can be one of several other meanings
| derived from the same root. One of which is its noun form
| "Something incidental to the main subject, but of less
| importance", which sounds like a more reasonable
| interpretation. Or it may even be one of those words that
| only has a particular meaning in a legal context.
| I_complete_me wrote:
| I've been looking for an appropriate context to refer to a
| recently new-found word, to wit "polysemy". Is this it?
| bena wrote:
| People glommed onto the idea of circumstantial meaning weak
| from police and legal procedurals.
|
| And since we are talking about evidence, we should be using
| it within the context of evidence. And in that context,
| some or all of the evidence being circumstantial has no
| bearing on whether or not it is good evidence.
|
| This isn't a matter of "other meanings [being] derived from
| the same root". There is no root. It's a misappropriation
| of a word from lazy television writers.
| jfrunyon wrote:
| > good evidence
|
| > literally hearsay
| elliekelly wrote:
| Hearsay evidence can be good evidence, too.
| sumosudo wrote:
| Other than first-hand knowledge, all evidence is
| circumstantial. In response to all your detractors comments:
| looking up words in dictionaries for law jargon is a bad
| idea, you will get yourself thrown in the dock. Blacks
| dictionary only.
|
| CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. The term in- cludes all evidence of
| indirect nature. Milligan v. State, 109 Fla. 219, 147 So.
| 260, 263. It is direct evidence as to facts deposed to but
| indirect as to the factum probandum, Brown v. State, 126
| Tex.Cr.R. 449, 72 S.W.2d 269, 270; evidence of facts or
| circumstances from which the existence or nonexistence of
| fact in issue may be inferred. People v. Steele, 37 N.Y.S.2d
| 199, 200, 179 Misc. 587; Wolff v. Employers Fire Ins. Co.,
| 282 Ky. 824, 140 S.W.2d 640, 645, 130 A.L.R. 682; Scott v.
| State, 57 Ga.App. 489, 195 S.E. 923, 924; inferences drawn
| from facts proved, Hatfield v. Levy Bros., 18 Ca1.2d 798, 117
| P. 2d 841, 845; preponderance of probabilities, Hercules Pow-
| der Co., v. Nieratko, 113 N.J.L. 188, 173 A. 606, 610; pro-
| cess of decision by which court or jury may reason from
| circumstances known or proved, to establish by inference the
| principal fact, People v. Taddio, 292 N.Y. 488, 55 N.E. 2d
| 749, 750. It means that existence of principal facts is only
| inferred from circumstances. Twin City Fire Ins. Co. v.
| Lonas, 255 Ky. 717, 75 S.W.2d 348, 350. When the existence of
| the principal fact is deduced from evidentiary by a process
| of probable reasoning, the evi- dence and proof are said to
| be presumptive. Best, Pres. 246; Id. 12. All presumptive
| evidence is circumstantial be- cause necessarily derived from
| or made up of circum- stances, but all circumstantial
| evidence is not presumptive. Burrill. The proof of various
| facts or circumstances which usual- ly attend the main fact
| in dispute, and therefore tend to prove its existence, or to
| sustain, by their consistency, the hypothesis claimed. Or as
| otherwise defined, it consists in reasoning from facts which
| are known or proved to es- tablish such as are conjectured to
| exist.
|
| INDIRECT EVIDENCE. Is that which only tends to establish the
| issue by proof of various facts sustaining by their
| consistency the hypothesis claimed. It consists of both
| inferences and pre- sumptions. Lake County v. Neilon, 44 Or.
| 14, 74 P. 212, 214.
| polynomial wrote:
| This is exactly why I want to see more info about the cipher
| they solved (that and my innate interest in ciphers.) The claim
| is that when you remove all the letters of his full name, there
| is a 2nd message hidden there.
|
| This is exactly the sort of thing I would immensely like to get
| ahold of and apply some stochastic models to, in addition to
| just knowing more of the specifics.
|
| In any case, if they have truly deciphered a message that
| implicates him, it would be significantly more than
| circumstantial.
|
| What really pains me is the paucity of substantial information
| backing up the claim, that and the story seems to have been
| broken by TMZ, ugh.
| gumby wrote:
| This case didn't only inspire documentaries but also inspired the
| song "Dire Wolf" by the Grateful Dead.
| watertom wrote:
| The Zodiac didn't inspire the song, the Hound of the
| Baskerville's inspired the song.
|
| "So the Zodiac actually emerged some months after the song was
| finished"
|
| Story behind the song "Dire Wolf"
| http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2012/10/dire-wolf-1969.html
| gumby wrote:
| The full quotation from the page you linked to is,
|
| "So the Zodiac actually emerged some months after the song
| was finished - but, as we'll see, Garcia immediately made the
| connection between the killer and the song in live shows that
| October, when Zodiac frenzy gripped San Francisco. (He was
| recording pedal steel in the studio for CS&N on October 24;
| and on October 26 he mentions the Zodiac and "paranoid
| fantasies" onstage; so his memory of driving home in fear
| seems to be quite literal.)"
|
| Is a song, especially a Dead song, finished when the pen
| leaves the paper?
| oh_sigh wrote:
| What are the ethics of potentially identifying deceased people as
| baddies? Unless there is DNA evidence which remains(which I
| doubt), or they find incontrovertible evidence in his home or
| something like that(I also doubt), this is just a guess that will
| drastically affect his probably otherwise-normal family whether
| the allegations are true or not.
| no_butterscotch wrote:
| This was my first thought as well.
|
| Other ethics include the press now reaching out to the
| surviving family of this man? "So and so, who call themselves
| investigators, say your father is the Zodiac Killer! Thoughts?"
|
| Are there rules around this crap?
| lazide wrote:
| Near as I can tell, as long as they don't have an estate to sue
| you it's a-ok (based on current media cycles anyway). Only
| mostly sarcastic.
| nescioquid wrote:
| This was the question on my mind as well. The alleged "perp"
| died in 2018, but I didn't see any mention of the duration of
| the group's investigation. Did this group identify him as a
| person of interest before his death? If so, that raises yet
| more more questions (e.g. no statutory limitation on murder).
|
| > Hans Smits told Fox News he spent 10 years hiding a
| whistleblower who said he escaped a criminal "posse" headed by
| Poste. The man, who The Case Breakers only referred to as Wil,
| told Smits the posse roamed California's High Sierra region and
| that he was "groomed into a killing machine."
|
| > Smits said he gave Wil financial, logistical and emotional
| support over the years and moved him around for nearly 10 years
| in an effort to keep him safe.
|
| > "I'm the one that took him to the FBI office and put him on a
| train and sent him out of state," Smits said.
|
| The story does not seem to explicitly state Smits is a member
| of the Case Breakers, but if Smits knows Wil, and Case Breakers
| only identify the whistleblower as Wil, it seems to imply Smits
| is a member of Code Breakers.
|
| If that is all true, they were working Poste as a person of
| interest while he was still alive.
| purple_ferret wrote:
| A quick google doesn't show this guy on lists of common suspects.
|
| Where did he come from and what is supposed to be his motive?
| darepublic wrote:
| Time for another zodiac movie, this time including the subsequent
| murders and the eventual posthumous uncovering of the murderer.
| No matter how convincing the evidence it's just not satisfactory
| that the guy can't be tried.
| bickeringyokel wrote:
| Can't wait for Hollywood to make the new movie and change all
| the details of this new evidence for entertainment value.
| julienchastang wrote:
| How about using this same forensic team to determine the true
| identity of Satoshi Nakamoto :-)
| real_satoshi wrote:
| Look, I don't know why this keeps coming up. I am _not_ the
| zodiac killer.
| technocratius wrote:
| Please don't try to turn this place into reddit.
| dane-pgp wrote:
| Please try to turn Reddit into this place.
| ncmncm wrote:
| Now that we have _maybe_ identified somebody who killed, what, 37
| people?, let 's start identifying individuals responsible for
| _millions_ of more horrendous deaths, often drawn out over months
| of suffering, and maybe try to stop them.
|
| The guys who first put lead in gasoline are long dead already.
| There were people who fought getting it out of the gasoline, and
| they are mostly dead, by now, too. Likewise, leaded paint. That
| was banned in 1978. Thousands of people are still being killed by
| paint exposure, though, many indirectly by violent tendencies
| induced by lead paint exposure, which people still experience, by
| the millions, every day.
|
| Lots of people fought tooth and nail to keep people in doubt
| about tobacco smoke causing lung cancer. They are mostly dead.
| The top academic in statistics was one of those, and was
| personally responsible for decades of denial that observational
| study could determine causation, fetishizing random-controlled
| trials, RCTs. (RCTs are great, but anybody who insists that
| _only_ RCTs can demonstrate causation is a fetishist.) He 's dead
| too, but his legacy lives on, still killing people _en mass_.
|
| The people who started hydrogenating vegetable oils, starting
| with waste cottonseed oil, are long dead. But trans fats,
| produced by hydrogenation, were only (technically) banned from
| the US diet in 2017. That was an outcome of Fred Kummerow's
| entire career: he knew in the '50s that trans fats were poison,
| and worked for decades to get them banned. He died in 2016. I say
| "technically" because certain corporations have special
| dispensation to continue poisoning people. Maybe, catch them?
| Maybe, catch whoever fought the 2017 ban, who had poisoned people
| for many decades before, and sought to continue? They are mostly
| still alive.
|
| The biggest public health problem in the US today, killing way
| more than COVID-19, comes from (being precise!) consumption of
| fructose without adequate accompanying fiber. The sodas,
| Coke/Pepsi the biggest, but also juice, apple, orange, cranberry,
| Red Bull, Monster, are worst. But sugar, which is half fructose,
| is added to _practically everything_ nowadays, not just breakfast
| cereal. Almost the whole food industry is devoted to stripping
| out fiber and selling the rest; when "the rest" has, or gets
| added, sugar, it becomes slow poison. (Robert Lustig videos on
| Youtube are a great way to start learning about this. He has
| books out, too. Lustig is an endocrinologist, the smartest kind
| of medical doctor.)
|
| One of the reasons sugar is added to everything is that we were
| told for decades that saturated fat was bad for us. (Another is
| that sugar production is _massively_ subsidized, so is the
| cheapest ingredient.) All the stuff blamed on sat fat turns out
| to be caused, instead, by the trans fats and sugar. The saturated
| fat is not only totally harmless, it is important for brain
| function, so its loss compounds the problem.
|
| Thus, the people taking fiber out of and putting sugar into
| everything are the biggest _current_ mass killers. Likewise,
| everybody maintaining sugar production subsidies. Stringing them
| up may be an over-reaction. Anyway _stopping them_ seems like a
| good idea. At least, require fructose-content and fructose vs.
| fiber labeling? Think about them next time the news is full of
| somebody killing a dozen people. Is a dozen bad, but millions _A-
| OK_?
| boogies wrote:
| > Robert Lustig videos on Youtube are a great way to start
| learning about this.
|
| Or off YT:
|
| https://videos.lukesmith.xyz/w/feioCyaQEZ1ogHK1oNJM4K
|
| > Thus, the people taking fiber out of and putting sugar into
| everything are the biggest current mass killers. Stringing them
| up may be an over-reaction. Maybe convicting them would be,
| too? Anyway stopping them seems like a good idea. Think about
| them next time the news is full of somebody killing a dozen
| people. Is a dozen bad, but a million A-OK?
|
| IMO simply not compelling millions of people to pay them for it
| would be a good start. Defund all the agencies that promote
| poison, whether by subsidizing corn syrup, villianizing natural
| saturated fats to sell trans fats and sugar, or conspiring with
| drug companies and corrupt researchers to sell addictive
| substances (as discussed this week:
| https://dynomight.net/alcohol-trial/).
| ncmncm wrote:
| I like to play the videos at 1.5x-2x speed, with subtitles.
| That makes a 90-minute lecture take a more easily found 60 or
| 45 minutes.
|
| Tobacco advertising is banned in the US, and tobacco use is
| in decline there. (The US State Department works to outlaw
| bans in other countries. True!) A ban on advertising sugar-
| laced products -- high sugar-to-fiber ratio products,
| specifically -- ought to help.
| sva_ wrote:
| > The saturated fat is not only totally harmless,
|
| I was under the impression that you should still keep a balance
| between unsaturated and saturated fats to keep cholesterol in
| check?
| ncmncm wrote:
| I have not heard of any such thing. Inuit who have never had
| access to unsaturated fat do not start getting heart disease
| until they adopt a supermarket-driven diet.
|
| Cholesterol as a measure of health is driven to some degree
| by Big Pharma, who would like to have everyone taking statins
| for the whole rest of their lives. Certainly, dietary
| cholesterol is absolutely harmless, always has been.
| wbhart wrote:
| According to an article on PubMed, that's largely a myth,
| based on early, faulty studies [1].
|
| [1] "Low incidence of cardiovascular disease among the
| Inuit--what is the evidence?"
| amatecha wrote:
| "For the full story, and more evidence from the Case Breakers,
| visit"[0]
|
| Can we update the link to just go to the full story rather than
| the summarized version? (sorry, I know it's kinda "offtopic" but
| that just bugged me starting to read and just being redirected to
| another site)
|
| [0] https://www.foxnews.com/us/cold-case-zodiac-killer-
| identifie...
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| lqet wrote:
| By far the most interesting takeaway from the full FOX news
| article is that it seems possible that the Zodiac Killer was
| actually _a group_ of people:
|
| > Hans Smits told Fox News he spent 10 years hiding a
| whistleblower who said he escaped a criminal "posse" headed by
| Poste [now identified as the Zodiac]. The man, who The Case
| Breakers only referred to as Wil, told Smits the posse roamed
| California's High Sierra region and that he was "groomed into a
| killing machine."
|
| > In addition, Wil said he witnessed Poste burying murder
| weapons in the woods, Smits said.
|
| > "They put out several bear caches out there in case something
| happened," Smits said.
|
| > Smits said he gave Wil financial, logistical and emotional
| support over the years and moved him around for nearly 10 years
| in an effort to keep him safe.
|
| > Despite being dead for three years, some people are
| mysteriously still loyal to him, said Michelle, who also
| declined to provide her last name.
|
| > "He targeted young men who didn't have a father figure," she
| said. "It was a posse of three but the one [Poste] did a lot of
| damage. He still has some kind of control... and he's gone."
| microtherion wrote:
| This part of the article actually made me _more_ skeptical
| about the rest of the claims. The rest sounds like fairly
| convincing forensics, but then it veers off into rather
| outlandish conspiracy territory. And if you look at the
| earlier article on the "Case Breakers" site, the whole thing
| appears to have _started_ in conspiracy territory:
| https://thecasebreakers.org/2021/09/the-last-zodiac-victim/
|
| That's not to say that no such weapons cache exists. I
| imagine there must be plenty of outlaw-ish people in rural
| regions with sizable above- and underground collections of
| firearms. But often their boasts of paramilitary acumen tend
| to be rather overstated, so claims of a serial killer
| grooming posthumously loyal killing machines would require
| rather extraordinary proof.
| CancunVacation wrote:
| So that means that Ted Cruz hasn't been ruled out as a
| suspect?
| [deleted]
| gaetgu wrote:
| One hundred percent. That is something that, to my knowledge,
| was not known before. If it is indeed true then it would
| bring some interesting questions along with it.
| colpabar wrote:
| It's fox news, it would get flagged immediately. Using the
| local station seems to have bought some time.
| efojs wrote:
| Articles on the Case Breakers' site:
|
| https://thecasebreakers.org/2021/10/cold-case-team-says-zodi...
|
| https://thecasebreakers.org/2021/09/the-last-zodiac-victim/
|
| Press release #1:
| https://secureservercdn.net/166.62.114.250/g9q.07b.myftpuplo...
| gandalfian wrote:
| So no one from the film.
| steve76 wrote:
| Dig him up and whip his bones.
| jgrahamc wrote:
| _Other clues include deciphering letters sent by the Zodiac that
| revealed him as the killer, said Jen Bucholtz, a former Army
| counterintelligence agent who works on cold cases. In one note,
| the letters of Poste 's full name were removed to reveal an
| alternate message, she told Fox News.
|
| "So you've got to know Gary's full name in order to decipher
| these anagrams," Bucholtz said. "I just don't think there's any
| other way anybody would have figured it out."_
|
| I'd love to see that evidence.
| spoonjim wrote:
| I'll need some more evidence to believe it. They're strongly
| citing the "scars" on his forehead which, to my eye, look a lot
| like the wrinkles on anyone's forehead.
| philwelch wrote:
| If you look closely, different people don't tend to have
| matching forehead wrinkles.
| pengaru wrote:
| For anyone disinterested in giving any FOX site clicks, here's an
| alternative source:
|
| https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Investigators-claim-thi...
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| I wonder if neuroscience will ever come up with a treatment for
| serial killers that would cure them of their murderous
| obsessions.
|
| I believe some serial killers are constantly thinking about
| murder, while others might have two sides to their personalities
| that avoid thinking about the other, like a switch.
| ssklash wrote:
| From what I've seen/read, it seems like many serial killers
| have a consistent urge/voices telling them/impulse to kill that
| they are able to resist for a time, lose control, kill, and
| then repeat the cycle.
| jimbob45 wrote:
| I've wondered how many potential serial killers there are out
| there that will never kill simply because we, as a society,
| have elevated video games, movies, and adult entertainment to
| such an extent that killing just isn't as gratifying as blowing
| time on WoW, Netflix, or PH.
| some_furry wrote:
| This is a feature, not a bug.
| FooBarBizBazz wrote:
| This has probably also lost us virtuosos in other more
| positive fields.
| outside1234 wrote:
| Ted Cruz?
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-10-06 23:00 UTC)