[HN Gopher] Choosing the Right Wall Anchors
___________________________________________________________________
Choosing the Right Wall Anchors
Author : turtlegrids
Score : 320 points
Date : 2021-10-06 04:10 UTC (18 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.finewoodworking.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.finewoodworking.com)
| harvie wrote:
| This is my choice usualy:
|
| ==== Light duty ====
|
| - Just screw to drywall (no anchor)
|
| - cheap hammer-in anchor for concrete and hollow bricks (cheap
| plastic anchor and special screw with "one-way thread" that can
| be quickly hammered in like nail, but still can be tightened
| and/or (un)screwed like normal screw if needed)
|
| ==== Heavy duty ====
|
| - Expanding bolts for concrete
|
| - Molly bolts for drywall
|
| ==== Super heavy duty ====
|
| - Chemical anchor in concrete or bricks
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I had hollow / drywall walls in my old house (it was an older
| house that had an extra layer built inwards, if that makes any
| sense), and figuring out what to use was a bit of a pain. But, I
| managed to hang up some pretty heavy stuff on there.
|
| The one thing was a kitchen cabinet with a fold-out door that
| would carry all my plates and the like - 30+ kilos? Up to 50? And
| since it's ikea stuff, it only needed two screws at the top!
|
| I tried plugs that look like the self-drilling anchors described
| in the article, they ended up taking out a big chunk of the wall,
| whoops. We settled on the plastic butterfly anchors (number 1 on
| the picture), which held up just fine - but I did live in
| constant fear that the wall would give in.
| omnimus wrote:
| Watch out for this. We had badly installed top cabinets loaded
| with plates and glasses. Its been fine for years. One night i
| wake up to sounds of apocalypse... Cabinets falling one by one
| breaking everything inside. Just like some controlled
| demolition.
|
| Plates and glasses can be quite expensive :((
| shellfishgene wrote:
| Surely no one installs cabinets with just screwing into the
| drywall and not into the studs, or some other more solid
| part?
| macNchz wrote:
| One would hope, but I think it's not uncommon to have them
| installed incorrectly. It happened to a friend of mine a
| few years ago, and a search turns up plenty of other
| instances: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=kitchen+cabinets+fell+
| off+wall&t=i...
| magicalhippo wrote:
| That assumes the cabinets and studs line up. Previous place
| we were not so lucky when redecorating our kitchen.
|
| We used quality anchors as well as placing an extra
| horizontal wooden "beam" below the cabinets for them to
| rest on, to minimize any vertical load on the anchors. The
| beam we could easily attach to the studs.
|
| Held up for the years we lived there, even with lots of
| plates and such.
| jessaustin wrote:
| This seems insane to me. Any cabinet wider than 16" (or
| in extreme cases 24") is going to overlap with at least
| one stud. Why not screw into that stud? Any wood cabinet
| has a perfectly usable cross-piece for that purpose at
| both the top and bottom. If the cabinet is narrower than
| 16" I suppose you could chance it but I'd prefer to just
| move it sideways until it overlapped a stud.
| [deleted]
| magicalhippo wrote:
| The IKEA cabinets have a flimsy back, it's the sides that
| take the load. And moving sideways would have meant
| giving up a cabinet, not ideal in a small kitchen.
|
| I see IKEA has improved their design now, with the
| cabinets hanging from a metal bar of sorts, which can be
| mounted to the studs. Guess there's a reason for that...
| jessaustin wrote:
| Oh wow. I'm surprised it's legal to sell a box like that
| under the name "cabinet". This is a product that has had
| a standard, functional form for centuries.
| conductr wrote:
| I'm never surprised by the incompetence or laziness people,
| even "pros", do to unseen parts of construction. Many times
| they know it will work long enough to be someone else's
| problem, which is quite unfortunate.
|
| I see the same with tile. Installers skipping waterproofing
| is quite common. DIY folks trying to make it look pretty so
| they can sell the home for top dollar, etc. It often
| creates a much bigger problem for the next person to deal
| with.
| TorKlingberg wrote:
| If you are hanging Ikea cabinets they also sell long metal
| rails that the cabinets can hang on instead of the two screws.
| Then you can screw where the beams are, or just put a lot of
| anchors. You walls need to be fairly straight though.
|
| https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/metod-suspension-rail-galvanise...
| baremetal wrote:
| there is no substitute for hitting a stud. drywall anchors for
| holding up cabinets is blasphemy!
|
| try french cleats screwed into studs instead.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| Toggle-bolts can hold quite a bit. Certainly compared to some
| of those self-drilling anchors they are conservatively rated.
| stooliepidgin wrote:
| _" Anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."_ this
| isn't. There is nothing scientific or substantive about this
| article and it's more-or-less basic information found in any old
| Black & Decker home improvement book.
|
| Plus, only an idiot uses expanding anchors that cannot be removed
| without getting into drywall repairs. Blue putty for an unframed
| poster, brads (tiny nails) for light items, screw-in _removable_
| drywall anchors, or anchoring into studs using lag bolts are
| basically all you need.
|
| Meta: I have lost a lot of confidence that are enough hackers
| left on HN to outweigh the nonhackers who "Facebook viralify"
| junk articles and low-signal arguments.
| typhonic wrote:
| This is my favorite. It's hard to find, so I made a quick sketch.
|
| https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hSCB8ZGGH7tlph-NuNRWa317HCV...
|
| I turn it so the flat side is horizontal. It expands when you put
| the screw in and it holds quite a bit. You just push it in by
| hand. When your done, it will pull out and leave just a
| small(ish) slot. Like I said, they are hard to find, so I take
| them when I move and re-use them.
| par wrote:
| Something I am not sure was mentioned here was dynamic loads. You
| could secure a bicycle mount to your wall using one of the
| aforementioned anchors, however the repetitiveness of bring the
| bike on and off the mount will cause the drywall to fail, and it
| will come crashing down at some point. Anchors are good for
| static loads. For dynamic loads, you will still need to find a
| stud. This is made even more complicated these days with the
| introduction of metal studs in so many buildings. At that point,
| a molly or toggle bolt into a metal stud is going to be your best
| bet.
| hoseja wrote:
| (for dry"wall") Also, the correct answer is this:
|
| https://www.fischer-international.com/en/products/standard-f...
| janandonly wrote:
| Two things to add:
|
| 1. There is a pdf, which you can download here:
| https://www.finewoodworking.com/membership/pdf/405146/W291_C...
|
| 2. While reading this I wondered why we don't have specialized
| quality magazines like this in Europe? I guess that America only
| has two big languages (Spanish and English) whereas Europa has
| many. So writing any article for a wide public is impossible
| without an army of transistors
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| emaginniss wrote:
| Ze Quebecois would like to know your location
| buildsjets wrote:
| I do not believe that America has annexed Quebec. Yet.
| Stratoscope wrote:
| Very interesting article, I learned a lot from it.
|
| No mention of Command Strips; I was curious to see if the author
| had any opinion on them. I've used them with some success in the
| past when I didn't want to put a hole in a wall.
|
| Anyone have any knowledge of their pros and cons? One "con" I
| know of is just a matter of technique: when you remove one, don't
| pull it away from the wall! Pull it straight down against the
| wall, slowly.
|
| https://command.com/
|
| If nothing else, DOS old-timers will get a kick out of that
| domain name!
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I like command strips for lighter things. But once in a while
| I'll have a picture frame drop off the wall years after it was
| attached with a command strip. Startling. When I reattach them,
| I don't use command strips except as stabilizers.
| johnl1479 wrote:
| I almost exclusively use Command strips: pictures, mirrors, and
| other wall decor, as well as seasonal decor.
|
| The removal technique is crucial, pulling out will rip paint
| off the wall, pulling down will not. That was a lesson learned
| the hard way.
| akx wrote:
| I have a lot of painted brick wall I'm hesitant to drill into.
|
| Command strips have worked absolutely fine (and also come off
| without a trace if need be) for relatively light loads such as
| paintings and other decoration, but two Command hooks could not
| hold up a laundry drying rack that weighs about 3 kg despite
| technically rated to do so.
| XorNot wrote:
| Curious if the strip failed or the paint on the brick failed?
| sjs382 wrote:
| They're generally designed for that weight with the forces
| going straight toward the floor (like hanging a picture, a
| hook for a broom, a coat hook or something). The further you
| have that weight from the wall, the less weight it can hold.
| Stratoscope wrote:
| Interesting that they have worked for you on painted brick!
| That seems like a much rougher surface than the drywall I've
| used them on.
| mindslight wrote:
| For drywall/plaster, I'd much rather patch a simple hole than
| need to clean off the crap left behind by an adhesive strip. I
| can't speak to the Command brand specifically, but I've found
| that products touting features that run contrary to their
| nature ("no damage") generally fail to live up to those claims.
| And you won't know until it's time to move out.
| throaway46546 wrote:
| I've had bad luck with them. I live in the desert and in the
| summer my art started falling off the walls.
| noneeeed wrote:
| My only issues with command strips has been that I've had the
| paint come off the wall. This seems to be a problem with some
| types of paint but not others, where they don't bond as well
| with the wall/undercoat.
|
| Obviously not a problem with the strips themselves, just
| something to bear in mind when using them.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| Yeah, the painters did a terrible job painting our house; I
| think they put one thick layer on rather than multiple thin
| layers. Command strips hold about 1lb before pulling the
| paint off. Of course we also have paint that comes off if you
| accidentally rub against it while walking by so I don't blame
| the command strips...
| noneeeed wrote:
| Yep. We did our own painting and I think we made that
| mistake. Used the one-coat stuff that seems to be more
| "rubbery" and you end up with a thick layer that will just
| peel off once it gets damaged. Lesson learned.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| In general with paint, the more you thin it, the more
| coats you need, but the longer it lasts once you are
| done. Also don't use water-based primer to cover oil
| (even though it says on the side of the can that it can
| do it!), use a shellac primer.
|
| That second one I learned from painting my first condo;
| painted the ceiling, gave it a week to cure; taped off to
| do the walls, and after finishing the walls, the ceiling
| paint came off with the tape! Got a pro in there and he
| said "if it actually did what it says on the can, I'd use
| it because it's way easier cleanup"
| anthomtb wrote:
| I've had mixed results with command strips. A couple
| lightweight art pieces have stayed up just fine for 2.5 years
| now. Some slightly larger ones didn't make it more than a year.
| I think the issue was not pressing the strip on the wall for
| long enough.
|
| Ultimately, I think I'm done with command strips. They can
| work, but with hollow drywall and 1kg paintings it's easier to
| use a single nail and picture hanger.
| te_chris wrote:
| Command hooks are great, but in our last place we had a small
| kitchen/living room type space and things kept falling off due
| to fat etc in the air. Just an FYI really, but don't expect
| them to work well around cooking areas.
|
| (This was in a London flat, victorian loft conversion, so the
| total room was like 4x5m. Sure most of you aren't so space
| constrained, especially Americans with your megahouses!)
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| TESA is the brand on my side of the pond that has similar
| products, but I've never seen them advertised to work on
| coarser walls like drywall or - as another commenter mentioned
| - painted brick, they'll work best on tile. And then only for
| fairly light loads.
|
| For heavier duty stuff, there's double-sided foam tape, ideally
| the one for bathrooms since they're reinforced with a
| fiberglass (I presume) mesh and are more water resistant. We
| use some of those to stick an ikea shower shelving unit in the
| corner in our bathroom, I didn't want to put screws in the
| walls. Also because I don't trust this thing won't start
| rusting and looking tatty within a few years.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Painted drywall is not coarse. Unless it's textured of
| course, but who does that? Command strips are explicitly
| designed for painted drywall.
| jimbobimbo wrote:
| Just in time! Doing remodeling and attaching things to walls is a
| big deal.
| oaiey wrote:
| Funny how concrete walls are just a last chapter low content
| part. Most of us Europeans fight very hard battles against
| concrete walls and using the right anchor is quite a thing.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I'd argue for the applications shown in this article, generic
| plugs work just fine.
|
| Drilling into the material is another matter though, I at some
| point invested in a hammer drill which manages that just fine.
| maeln wrote:
| > Drilling into the material is another matter though, I at
| some point invested in a hammer drill which manages that just
| fine.
|
| And don't take a cheap one. Also buy good drill bits. I have
| reinforced concrete wall in my home and anything less than
| 7EUR drill bits was basically one-used only.
| namdnay wrote:
| I second this. Honestly if you own a house there's no
| reason not to invest in a good cordless rotary hammer
| Aaargh20318 wrote:
| Cheap ones work fine if you only use it occasionally. Mine
| was like EUR35 and I've had it for over 10 years now, still
| works fine. Goes through concrete like a hot knife through
| butter.
|
| When I initially needed one I checked how much they were to
| rent, it was actually cheaper to buy one than to rent one
| for a day. Worst-case scenario it fails an I get another
| cheap one, I already got my money's worth.
| bayindirh wrote:
| I just use Bosch's drill bits for concrete. They're nice
| and durable. For wood, B+D Piranha lives up to its name.
|
| On the screw bits side, heavy use delegated to Bosch again,
| while fine stuff are handled by Wera.
| oaiey wrote:
| It is not only drilling. Some of the walls are frickle,
| falling apart or other are steel hard beton.
|
| Using the right drill machine however is indeed critical.
| nemetroid wrote:
| For any job larger than one or two holes, I highly recommend
| using (perhaps renting) a rotary hammer. For hard concrete,
| the difference against a hammer drill really is night and
| day.
| sysadmindotfail wrote:
| US (Florida) checking in. A hammer drill is your friend.
|
| Once you spend a few decades in concrete houses, everything
| else seems cheap and suspect.
| blue1 wrote:
| Also, I was surprised not to see the magic word "Fischer"
| mentioned anywhere.
| TorKlingberg wrote:
| The Duo Power plastic anchors shown in the article are made
| by Fischer.
|
| I used to live in an old building in Sweden where the
| external walls were made of thick concrete containing large
| stones and straw(!) The cheap drill bits I had did not last
| for long.
| bayindirh wrote:
| > Most of us Europeans fight very hard battles against concrete
| walls and using the right anchor is quite a thing.
|
| I've mounted (and still mounting) lot of stuff using high
| quality, but ordinary plastic plugs & screws. Fsicher, or any
| similar brand will do. Drill the hole with correct diameter,
| put in the plugs, screw, attach.
|
| Hardened concrete is really a battle to drill though.
| fy20 wrote:
| Yes don't cheap out. My local hardware store sells off brand
| wall plugs, but compared to Fischer they aren't even worth
| the packaging they come in. Fischer isn't that much more
| expensive, especially if you buy the bulk boxes (50 for
| ~EUR8).
|
| For masonry get yourself a 220V hammer drill. I picked one up
| from Lidl a couple of years ago for EUR40 and it has no
| issues drilling into my monolithic concrete walls. If I were
| using it daily I'd get something a bit better quality, but
| for DIY it's more than enough.
| [deleted]
| bayindirh wrote:
| I have an old 850W Bosch with 2 speeds + reverse. That
| thing is built like a tank.
|
| OTOH, I've used a DeWalt cordless hammer drill. Brushless
| motors are frightening things :)
| fy20 wrote:
| Haha. I have a cordless brushless impact driver. First
| time I used it to put a screw in a wall it went in so
| fast I didn't stop in time and it stripped the head :D
| sam_lowry_ wrote:
| Cordless impact drivers or even 230V ones like Bosch
| Advanced Impact do not perform well on reinforced
| concrete. You need a pneumatic hammer drill. Visually
| they are quite different because of the SDS head.
| jessaustin wrote:
| Lots of perfectly functional SDS hammer drills are
| electric (here in USA they're 120V). This is different
| from what I've called an impact driver, which is more for
| turning fasteners than drilling holes. Even Harbor
| Freight sells a few electric hammer drills that will sink
| smaller diameters like 1/4" at about 2 seconds per inch.
| Larger diameter bits take longer, but there's no need for
| an air compressor.
|
| I'm not sure why you'd mention "reinforced" concrete. I
| thought all concrete required reinforcement of some sort?
| Fiber won't be an issue, but if you hit rebar it's time
| to relocate your hole, no matter what you're drilling
| with. Even if the drill can do it you're going to ruin
| the bit.
| bayindirh wrote:
| > I'm not sure why you'd mention "reinforced" concrete. I
| thought all concrete required reinforcement of some sort?
|
| Concrete can be tuned for brittleness and strength. Some
| versions become very hard and impenetrable after they
| completely cure. They need more powerful drills and
| longer drill times since they simply resist the drill
| bit. It's akin to the difference between stainless steel
| and armor plate.
| jessaustin wrote:
| Oh I see; this may be similar to something we see
| sometimes with some very old concrete. Still, it isn't
| clear why this would be used in a residential setting.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Consider a gated community built very close to sea, where
| the houses are exposed to salty moisture all year long.
|
| Moreover the area is rocky, and is a very active
| earthquake area, so that a double wall sub
| basement/foundation is required.
|
| On top of that, the gated community is built by a company
| which is building dams regularly, so they're
| knowledgeable in specialty concrete mixes for both quake
| and moisture resistance.
|
| [This is _not_ a hypothetical scenario btw. :) ]
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Cordless impact drivers are one thing. Those store energy
| in a spring, a rotating hammer assembly is pushed by that
| spring and gains inertia, striking an anvil to provide a
| quick burst of torque. They typically have a hexagonal
| socket and are used to drive screws. Impact wrenches have
| the same construction, but are beefier, have square drive
| anvils, and are used to drive nuts and bolts.
|
| A hammer drill spins in a continuous motion, and is
| typically used with a spiral flute drill in a Jacobs
| chuck (or tool-less version of the Jacobs chuck). You can
| usually enable or disable the hammer action with the
| clutch. It has a similar mechanism that encourages the
| drill to tap forwards, but if you press too hard it won't
| do much. Just a weighty and useless add-on to an ordinary
| drill to justify a slightly increased price, IMO. A
| regular drill, even with a masonry bit, is ineffective in
| concrete; hammer drills can work if the bit is small and
| the mix used more sand and maybe fine gravel (eg. mortar
| or brick), but are hopeless if you encounter a larger
| stone. Importantly, the energy and the frequency of the
| hammering action are tied to the rotation - usually 1, 2,
| or 3 taps per revolution. You don't get heavy or rapid
| impacts at low RPM.
|
| A rotary impact (whether pneumatic, corded, or cordless)
| has an SDS head and a mechanism that drives the head
| forward and aft. You can typically run it in hammer-only
| mode, which is impossible with a hammer drill. You may be
| able to shift a cam (or adjust an air valve) to change
| the impact power. And yeah, with a decently powerful
| rotary impact tool, you can run put large holes in
| concrete with little hassle.
| bayindirh wrote:
| > hammer drills can work if the bit is small and the mix
| used more sand and maybe fine gravel (eg. mortar or
| brick), but are hopeless if you encounter a larger stone.
| Importantly, the energy and the frequency of the
| hammering action are tied to the rotation - usually 1, 2,
| or 3 taps per revolution. You don't get heavy or rapid
| impacts at low RPM.
|
| Hrmm, no.
|
| The drill I use (the 800W one) can drill up to 20mm on
| concrete. It taps probably 20-30 times per revolution and
| is able to drill earthquake resistant concrete with ease.
| It also taps harder if you push harder. This kind of
| concrete can resist thick steel nails when driven with an
| hammer. The nails generally break into two or get
| slightly bent.
|
| When used with a good drill bit, it just drills very
| cleanly with a little bit of resistance in the beginning,
| but makes relatively quick work of it.
|
| For reference, it's a Bosch CSB 800-2 RE, made in the 90s
| [0].
|
| So, there are hammer drills, and there are hammer drills.
| Not all of them are created equal.
|
| [0]:
| https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9414321300_1470304831.jpg
| mongol wrote:
| Lidl is great value for these things.
| deeblering4 wrote:
| An impact driver is well worth it when dealing with concrete
| walls.
|
| A basic corded model can be had for about 50 bucks, just make
| sure it has a chuck tool to really tighten the bit.
|
| With that you can quickly drill a pilot hole into hardened
| concrete, and then use your favorite masonry screws to attach
| things to the wall. I've had good luck with tapcon screws.
| oaiey wrote:
| Absolutely :). Just missed them in the article :)
| sam_lowry_ wrote:
| Chemical anchors are not covered. They are often the only
| solution for older brick walls.
| stinos wrote:
| Also tends to work for 'hollow' brick (the ones with
| cavities) walls.
|
| Now, apart from just being a solution, it should be mentioned
| that this is probably the only solution which both has sub-mm
| accuracy for positioning and combines it with ridiculous
| strength without elasticity. As in: you drill a hole, fill
| it, put a steel bar in it, positioning it with e.g. small
| pieces of wood, wait until hardened, and the thing won't ever
| move again in no direction. None of the typical issues like
| plastic and other plugs having some slack, old bricks being
| notoriously uneven making it extremely hard to get a hole
| drilled exactly at the spot you want (which is impossible
| anyway if you land on the edge of stone and mortar). Cons:
| pricey. Also most of the time it's complete overkill, I admit
| I like doing that just for peace of mind though :)
| formerly_proven wrote:
| Chemical anchors is how all industrial machinery is mounted
| these days.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| Just use wedge anchors in concrete for anything somewhat heavy,
| blue tapcons for lighter stuff
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Yeah do almost all of these anchors require that you've got
| hollow walls? A sheet of plaster with nothing behind it but
| air?
| namdnay wrote:
| I've only lived in stone or concrete houses, there has always
| been enough of a gap between the drywall and the house walls
| to expand mollies into. That air helps noise and heat
| insulation, as well as being useful for passing heating
| water, electrics etc
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Where I live the walls are brick and then you plaster on
| top of them.
| oaiey wrote:
| Well the concrete houses I lived in never had drywall on
| the wall at all :). It really depends :)
| namdnay wrote:
| So raw concrete inside? and they painted directly on it?
| o_O
| skipnup wrote:
| Concrete or more typically some kind of (concrete) brick,
| then plaster, then wallpaper, then paint.
|
| At least in many German houses.
| namdnay wrote:
| well that's drywall no? the sheets of plaster between the
| wall and the wallpaper
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Presumably they mean just plaster, not sheets of plaster
| board.
| oaiey wrote:
| exactly ;)
| saberdancer wrote:
| Plaster can be very thin and it isn't sandwiched between
| sheets of wallpaper. It's used to smooth out the wall
| texture.
|
| You can also have concrete wall with plaster and then on
| top of it paint, no wallpaper at all.
| Gravityloss wrote:
| Standard way to build here for the last 50 years.
| Indoors, the raw brick or concrete wall has a thin layer
| of "flattener" plaster spread. No drywall pieces.
|
| Most of the time no wallpaper.
| oaiey wrote:
| Raw Beton or plaster on brick/beton with or without
| wallpaper. Paint on top. So many variants :)
| namdnay wrote:
| wow I've only ever seen that in very old houses before
| renovation
| AlgorithmicTime wrote:
| That's the standard type of wall, yes. Studs with a sheathing
| fixed over them. On the interior, drywall. On the exterior,
| plywood or specialty sheathing materials.
| stdbrouw wrote:
| How so? Concrete takes any kind of wall plug extremely well,
| and brick is not so bad either as long as you don't hit the
| mortar joints. Vertically perforated brick and old cinder
| blocks can be annoying, though, I'll give you that.
| ThePadawan wrote:
| (Not parent, but European)
|
| I think the issue is generally more how to get into the
| concrete in the first place.
|
| I personally live in a skyscraper and have tried to drill
| into my walls and found out it's close to impossible without
| industrial equipment.
|
| Every few months on the beginning of the month (when people
| move in), I can hear the furtive struggle of a drill trying
| to get into the load-bearing walls. How it starts off
| confident and then the torque decreases and decreases.
| namdnay wrote:
| Honestly, with a good rotary hammer (and good drill bits!)
| you go through reinforced concrete like butter. I swear by
| my Hilti, but an Einhell or Lidl will do a fine job too
| ThePadawan wrote:
| Yes, that's what I mean when I say "industrial
| equipment".
|
| No one who rents a normal apartment for 1 or 2 people
| will own a rotary hammer they only need for 1 day every 5
| years - they'll rent a powerful one at a hardware store.
|
| But lots of people have an affordable power drill which
| is still good enough to drill into brick walls (since
| cheap power drills suck so much, you never want to use
| them again, but mid-range power drills are pretty all-
| around powerful).
| Aaargh20318 wrote:
| > No one who rents a normal apartment for 1 or 2 people
| will own a rotary hammer they only need for 1 day every 5
| years - they'll rent a powerful one at a hardware store.
|
| I got mine because renting it for 1 day was actually more
| expensive than just buying a cheap one new. Still works
| fine after 10 years.
| namdnay wrote:
| Completely agree for renting - especially since you're
| going to have to fill those holes up again and paint the
| wall etc after you leave :(
| analog31 wrote:
| If I were renting, I would use a magnet to find the
| hidden wall anchors before installing new ones.
| sam_lowry_ wrote:
| Use a pneumatic hammer drill, you can find out which one is
| pneumatic by checking the head. It should be SDS. Rotary
| heads can not be used on hammer drills.
| LoneWolf wrote:
| Depending on the walls, generally at least in my country
| walls are made of clay bricks, so any hammer drill will
| work, but if you want to drill too close to the ceiling, or
| the ceiling you will need something better.
|
| I ended up buying a rotary hammer because of this, holes on
| the floor (doorstoppers), ceiling, or walls right close to
| the ceiling was impossible with the cheap hammer drill,
| along with a good SDS+ drill bit feels like butter now.
| ThePadawan wrote:
| Yes, I had good experiences working with brick walls so
| far - but a lot of very modern construction (here in
| Switzerland) uses a _lot_ of concrete, sometimes even
| exposed concrete in living spaces [0].
|
| I really don't know if any of the designers/architects
| involved have ever tried living in those apartments. I
| think a lot of them would choose different materials if
| they had to do their own DYI.
|
| [0] https://www.ryserboeden.ch/binokular
| bipson wrote:
| Oh, they do.
|
| Concrete has great thermodynamic properties for living
| comfort. It cools at day, warms at night, transfers from
| cold parts of the house to hot ones, etc.
|
| It is there on purpose (and not too difficult to drill
| into with a "Bohrhammer", rotary drill(?), i.e. the ones
| with SDS(+)).
|
| Actually, the brick-walls we have (hollow bricks with
| flimsy thin walls) were harder for me to figure out. They
| need _really_ careful drilling with the right tools,
| otherwise the brick shatters and nothing will take grip.
| samizdis wrote:
| Love the thoroughness of that piece, and the site in general
| takes me back to watching episodes on TV of _The New Yankee
| Workshop_ [1] with Norm Abram [2].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Yankee_Workshop
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_Abram
| jmchuster wrote:
| I find video is the easiest for eyeballing how well they actually
| hold up.
|
| https://youtu.be/QQWIZNlf9ZE?t=480
|
| There's also an aspect of how straightforward or finicky they
| are. So some designs have high risk of user error, so for the
| average homeowner, they end up on average with worse outcomes.
| throwawaysea wrote:
| There's a great YouTube channel called "Project Farm" where this
| person performs systematic reviews of products in a given
| category, usually relating to home improvement. Here's his video
| on drywall anchors: https://youtu.be/lHb-Tcvkn7M
| dangerboysteve wrote:
| I've used the Toggler Snaptoggle many times to mount large
| televisions 75-80 inches and they were fantastic.
| reportingsjr wrote:
| I used them last year to mount a climbing hangboard to a
| plaster and lath wall. I used about 6 of them and I'm roughly
| 180lbs, it feels absolutely solid. I'll definitely be using
| them in the future for high weight situations.
| hedgehog wrote:
| After a lot of research I settled on SnapToggles for floor-to-
| ceiling shelving mounted to lath and plaster. About as easy to
| install as could reasonably be expected for the wall type and
| seems to be holding well.
| par wrote:
| mounted a tv in my bedroom into metal studs using snaptoggle, i
| love them.
| mattlondon wrote:
| Not all plugs are created equal.
|
| I've found loads are total garbage. The only brand I have found
| that reliably works into brick and plaster are Fischer plugs. If
| I buy something that already comes with plugs, they go _straight
| into the bin_ and I use my own screws and matching plugs.
|
| Fischer has a lot of technical information freely and publicly
| available on their website for their screws too (e.g.
| https://fiproductmedia.azureedge.net/media/Certification%20D...).
| This is pleasing when you are mounting something that needs to
| take a lot of weight (shelves, large mirrors etc) and you want
| piece of mind.
|
| Highly recommended - I've basically chucked everything else out
| and now have 3 different sized Fischer plugs and a variety of
| matching screws (pan head, counter sunk etc) to meet all my
| needs.
|
| I am not a pro - just a DIYer who has had multiple failures in
| the past from cheap-ass plugs and screws who initially blamed
| themselves. Turns out you CAN blame the tools (well - fixings in
| this case) since quality fixings solved my problems.
| parhamn wrote:
| Are you in the US? There is usually a stud every 16 inches or
| so here, which obviates the need for too many anchors.
| Excluding small picture frames, I can't think of a use case
| where I'd rely on an anchor (you usually bridge studs for
| anything smaller but heavy).
| butwhywhyoh wrote:
| Are there studs in your brick wall? Interesting.
| bin_bash wrote:
| HN can be a bit West Coast oriented where there are
| virtually no bricks due to earthquakes
| mattlondon wrote:
| Bricks are used a lot in earthquake zones in Europe, e.g.
| Italy (earthquake-rated bricks anyway, not common London
| bricks etc). I think the timber frame construction is
| more of a cultural thing than an earthquake protection
| thing.
| parhamn wrote:
| My bad! Assumed the discussion was mostly around drywall
| anchors.
| mattlondon wrote:
| No studs in walls made of bricks! The whole thing is solid
| all the way along so just put things where you want.
|
| I think that is fairly common in Europe, although I know that
| timber construction is getting more common in the past decade
| or two.
| hedgehog wrote:
| There's also a lot of lath and plaster which tends to have no
| standard spacing and smaller studs.
| dillondoyle wrote:
| My condo is in a 110 year old building. Some of the walls are
| thick brick with crumbling dry plaster on top. I tried to
| hang a pretty heavy frame on one of those walls & made a huge
| mess. Had to have a pro come out to do it!!
|
| HN is sometimes a gem with random relevant content.
| car wrote:
| A bit of an aside, but Fischer also makes wonderful toys under
| the fischertechnik brand.
|
| https://www.fischertechnik.de/en/
| cptskippy wrote:
| Which plug are you referring to?
|
| They have an Expansion plug S which is hot garbage.
| mattlondon wrote:
| 8mm: Expansion plug SX
|
| 6mm: Universal plug UX
|
| 5mm (35mm deep): DuoPower
|
| I tend to stick to the 8mm and 6mm ones, but sometimes I need
| "short" plugs for e.g. hanging things in hollow panel doors
| so I have the 5mm 35mm deep for those as things like that
| tend to have more delicately sized holes for smaller screws.
| I prefer to use the 6mm plugs for day-to-day stuff.
|
| The 8mm Expansion plug SX can take some really chunky screws
| - like 5mm or 6mm diameter so I have no doubt about heavy
| shelves or big mirrors etc.
| Gravityloss wrote:
| Sormat is fine too.
| mysticllama wrote:
| great advice, and i would even generalize this to suggest that
| you should toss any fasteners that come bundled with low cost
| products (obviously there are exceptions with specialty
| fasteners and such). you can get a package of drywall screws or
| drywall anchors (into which you can drill screws) of decent
| quality at any hardware store.
|
| i have saved a lot of blood, sweat, and tears by not dealing
| with stripped screws, flimsy drywall anchors that shred, etc.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| x100. With emphasis
|
| Any fixture that comes from China these days seems to have
| pot-metal screws, which will pop a head at the slightest
| torque. Or just because they feel like it.
|
| Just buy a box of drywall screws, and two assorted (different
| length / size) packs of exterior screws and machine screws,
| preferably ones that comes in a nice divided box, and pull
| from there.
| locallost wrote:
| Like others, I also thought it was funny this guide is almost
| completely for drywall or in general not for concrete/brick type
| walls. Says something about the differences in house building in
| the US vs rest of the world. I now live in an apartment with
| drywall for the first time in my life, after about 15 other
| places.
|
| The one thing I noticed is that those self drilling anchors are
| rated for a much higher weight than those that I use. In the
| article they are 50+ lbs and over here 8kg, so around 15 lbs.
| Don't know if there's a detail I'm missing.
| stackedinserter wrote:
| Because it's never ending battle with drywall here in
| US/Canada.
|
| It's virtually impossible to hang anything heavier than a
| picture frame unless there's a stud at that specific location.
| Nothing from that review works for dynamic load, like a vacuum
| cleaner mount or a coat rack.
|
| Drywall sucks. I miss my concrete walls.
| baybal2 wrote:
| MGO, fibre-gypsum, or concrete fibre board -- all better than
| American style paper+gypsum drywall.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Why does drywall suck? It's durable, easily patchable, cheap,
| easy to install or modify, and takes paint well. And pretty
| much any drywall anchor will work to mount a vacuum cleaner
| charging mount or coat rack to the wall without any issues.
| kansface wrote:
| Like OP suggested, dry wall anchors don't do well with
| dynamic loads. Every time you put that vacuum back, you
| will crumble a bit of drywall and weaken your anchors.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| My experience says otherwise.
| nine_k wrote:
| I've seen office buildings and higher-end apartments apply
| drywall on top of the concrete or brick structure of load-
| beating walls. The reasons are usually adding more noise
| insulation, and the ability to route power / network / video
| cabling and have recessed sockets wherever the tenant demands,
| not where the concrete has a planned cavity.
| [deleted]
| ryanmarsh wrote:
| So glad they mentioned the Cobra Driller Toggle. These have saved
| me much frustration. I wish I'd discovered them sooner.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| I've used Geefix for installing floating cabinets in the
| bathroom, which weren't mentioned in the article. They claim to
| hold a lot of weight: https://www.geefix.com/
| djrogers wrote:
| I think the goal of this article was to highlight options that
| US buyers would have at their local home improvement or
| hardware stores. I've seen every one of the recommended items
| at Lowes or Home Depot over the past several decades, and have
| never heard of nor seen Geefix (which, btw, looks like a simple
| variation of the pull toggles highlighted in the article).
| bradfa wrote:
| Geefix are easy to source on Amazon and other online
| retailers. But yeah, not at Home Depot or Lowe's. But then
| again, most wood workers (target of audience of that website)
| probably already source the tools and materials they use from
| a variety of non-big-box stores.
| derwiki wrote:
| I was surprised they don't advertise their strength rating on
| their main site
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| Depends if you consider "one adult man" as a unit of
| measurement
|
| Edit: they do actually have some numbers, the last image in
| this photo gallery here: https://www.geefix.com/gallery/
|
| I think this is just down to bad/amateur website design
| devwastaken wrote:
| Heavily recommend always supporting with studs. Just a simple 1"
| (actually 3/4") thick board between the studs will be far more
| supportive than drywall.
|
| Also don't use drywall screws for anything other than drywall.
| Use torx screws when putting wood to wood/studs.
| derbOac wrote:
| I generally agree with you about studs; I don't trust drywall
| anchors and think they're overused. I hadn't thought about what
| you're saying regarding putting in another stud, but it's a
| good idea.
|
| Having said that, that doesn't _always_ work. I 've been
| working on a project the last few months to add something
| that's missing from a bathroom, and the way the room is
| configured it's difficult to add something where it needs to be
| for ergonomic/access reasons without using anchors. To add a
| stud you'd have to take out quite a bit of wall in adjoining
| room and the whole project would start to seem excessive.
|
| I've noticed the drywall in that area of our house, too, is
| really unusual, or at least I'm unfamiliar with it. It's like
| regular drywall but with an added layer of relatively strong
| plaster over the surface. It makes the anchors there more
| secure than what I'm used to (although I'm worried the apparent
| strength is deceptive).
| reportingsjr wrote:
| > I've noticed the drywall in that area of our house, too, is
| really unusual, or at least I'm unfamiliar with it. It's like
| regular drywall but with an added layer of relatively strong
| plaster over the surface.
|
| Someone likely had the wall "floated" to either fix some
| wonkiness in the drywall without tearing it down, covering up
| something like old wallpaper, etc etc. It's a fairly common
| thing to do to drywall.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| If it's between studs you might be able to add a horizontal
| brace without having to tear out and repair much drywall.
| jessaustin wrote:
| Yes this is a standard thing to do, often called
| "blocking". Either the framer or the plumber should do it
| in new construction. For old work, it's possible to cut out
| only the drywall where the blocking will be placed, and
| fasten using screws driven diagonally into the adjoining
| studs.
| djrogers wrote:
| > Use torx screws when putting wood to wood/studs
|
| Torx is a type of driver and head, not a type of screw. You can
| buy 'Torx' screws for sheet metal, drywall, wood, or just about
| anything else, so just looking at the head is not a good idea.
|
| I think what you're trying to recommend are quality
| construction type screws like Spax or GRK with Torx heads.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Spax or GRK make fantastic screws, but after using Robertson-
| drive screws all my life, Torx honestly sucks, for the simple
| reason that the screws don't stay on the bit very well. They
| will never strip out, but nothing holds the screw onto the
| bit except the magnet, so starting a screw one-handed is a
| bit finicky.
|
| However, Robertson drive is a tapered square, which means the
| bit will lock into the screw with friction, and it can take
| quite a lot of force to separate them. To illustrate my
| point, I can put a Robertson screw on a drill, then hold onto
| the screw and swing the drill around without it falling.
| reportingsjr wrote:
| Robertson and Torx are definitely better than philips.
|
| The two have their own pros and cons though. Robertson
| definitely makes it easier to keep the screw on a bit. On
| the other hand, if you've ever had to work with stainless
| screws and a harder wood (somewhat common in quality built
| outdoor stuff), I'll take torx any day due to the decreased
| stripping risk.
|
| Overall though both are still significant improvements over
| philips and slotted drives!
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Philips drive is only good for drywall screws, because
| the cam-out is a feature. Robertson is ubiquitous in
| Canada; anything produced in or for the Canadian market
| tends to use it, and Philips is mostly only found in
| imported products. Although Tprx is getting more common
| for stuff like screwing down a subfloor or a deck.
|
| I've slowly been replacing the original outlets in my 70s
| house, and for some reason they _only_ used slotted drive
| screws, for everything.
| bradstewart wrote:
| It is way too easy to strip a philips head screw going into
| wood, so maybe they did mean torx head?
|
| Most of the torx screws you'll find in boxes at a hardware
| store are deck screws anyway (at least around here), which
| are really good for attaching wood to wood. Good to be
| careful though.
| jcrawfordor wrote:
| A tip it took me too long to learn: using an impact driver
| will make it easier to avoid stripping Phillips screws than
| using a drill/driver. The way the impact driver delivers
| impulses at high torque just makes it easier to keep the
| bit properly engaged, since it kind of "resets" between
| each impact. The effect was so dramatic to me that the
| frustration saved was more than worth the cost of a mid-
| range cordless impact driver.
|
| But a lot of carpenters do prefer square or torx drive just
| to avoid the whole problem.
| gnarcoregrizz wrote:
| an impact will drive a 3" phillips no problem as long as
| its a decent quality screw. torx seem higher quality which
| usually eliminates the problem
| soylentcola wrote:
| Yep. Just put in a range hood and the spacing for the mounting
| screws wouldn't allow for attaching to studs (maybe one if you
| were lucky, but I was specifically mounting it so the duct
| would go up between two joists (ie: between two studs).
|
| It came with some big screw-in drywall anchors, but I just
| sucked it up and cut drywall, put in a bit of 2x4 horizontally
| between the two studs, patched, and screwed into that. Peace of
| mind was worth the extra day of dicking around with drywall.
| bch wrote:
| Ugh - I'm living this right now trying to figure out the best (or
| "a good") way to hang new interior doors into so-called steel
| studs, which are actually just box-section aluminum.
| jessaustin wrote:
| I've had good luck with "Timely" brand door frames:
|
| https://www.timelyframes.com/architects/application/app-meta...
| bch wrote:
| I appreciate you sharing your experience.
|
| Unfortunately(?) I picked prehung doors to go in (everybody
| was made aware of the installation environment), so I've got-
| what-I've-got at this moment. Unclear if I got suckered or
| not. I told my vendor what I was dealing with, where I wanted
| end, a never any flags raised. Getting help is like pulling
| teeth - this all seems simple enough (though I'm not going to
| assume there's nothing to know - I'm no expert) which makes
| it all the more frustrating.
| jessaustin wrote:
| Oh yeah I see what you mean. If the problem is just getting
| something that will hold in metal studs, I'd go with some
| nice beefy (say 3/8" diameter? that will seem like overkill
| to some people) self-tapping metal screws. Set the drag on
| your drill or impact so it stops before bottoming out, then
| go the rest of the way carefully so you don't strip out the
| hole.
| asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
| Interesting to see the correct advice here for hanging stuff from
| metal studs. So much of the advice on the internet about this
| suggests using toggle bolts, but it's actually fine to just use
| sheetmetal screws directly into sheetmetal studs. You can find
| datasheets online about how much weight each screw will hold into
| a given thickness of steel, but it's often surprisingly high --
| more than 150lb for even fairly small screws into 25ga steel. For
| example:
|
| https://www.amsisupply.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ASO-1-...
| par wrote:
| Speaking from experience, using sheet metal screws in metal
| studs only works sometimes. A lot of the time the screw doesn't
| catch, and if you apply a horizontal pulling force, you can
| just pull the whole thing out. We had mounted some closet
| brackets to metal studs using sheet metal screws, and it held
| for a while. But eventually the brackets came out of the wall.
| We went back in with toggles and it's all good.
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| > When I need to secure larger cabinets or other wooden pieces to
| a drywall or plaster wall and there is no stud accessible, toggle
| bolts are the anchors I most often turn to.
|
| Or if you have young children. My 3 year olds can literally swing
| on our towel racks and they won't come out the wall. I've since
| converted everything in our house to these because things kept
| getting pulled out by them.
| aikinai wrote:
| This is missing staples! I'm not sure if there's anything similar
| available in other countries, but I swear by this staple-based
| wall-mount product sold in Japan[0].
|
| Right now I have a 55" TV wall-mounted with nothing but staples.
|
| [0]https://kabebijin.net/products/detail.php?product_id=122
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Are those staples expanding or serrated or something? And how
| deep do they go? I wouldn't put up a TV with those myself, the
| one I have now is attached with eight bolts going in err, over
| 5 cm deep into solid concrete walls.
|
| Of course the TV itself is hanging on the bracket with just two
| bolts, held down with gravity and some thin metal wire
| retainers. It wobbles when touched.
| onion2k wrote:
| When you're mounting something the important thing is that
| the stress is distributed across the mounts in a way that
| means no single component is receiving more weight than it
| can take. Using lots and lots of 'weak' mounts like staples
| is just as secure as using eight bolts, but in the case of
| the staples the load is distributed across more of the wall.
| If the wall itself is the weak point then that's more secure.
| 8note wrote:
| I think your main worry is breaking the drywall/changing the
| angle, rather than the staples pulling out or shearing off.
|
| It's not like TVs are very heavy, and the weight adds to the
| friction forces holding the staples in. Especially if the
| staple has to pull upwards to be removed, it's unlikely to be
| going anywhere unless the material falls out from under it
| aikinai wrote:
| They're regular, small staples not going in particularly
| deep, but the aggregate friction is enough to hold it very
| firmly. Here's a video of a guy pulling on it so hard his
| (admittedly thin) wall flexes[0].
|
| I forgot if it was this video or another one; I've seen
| someone hanging from it to test the strength.
|
| [0] https://youtu.be/uYYhNf9GVZY?t=469
| dirtyid wrote:
| Fantastic. And Frustrating.
| rickdeckard wrote:
| This is hilarious, it should be a own HN-Entry...
| aequitas wrote:
| Never thought of this but it makes total sense. Like how you
| can rip a piece of paper apart easily but try doing the same
| with a book.
| rhacker wrote:
| You win this thread.
| dangerboysteve wrote:
| This setup would induce anxiety in me each time I would watch
| that TV and think its about to fail. And I'd always be thinking
| I'll need to patch all those tiny holes in the future.
| throwawaysea wrote:
| The pictures seem to use a regular stapler. Is that all it
| takes? What wall material are you stapling into?
| aikinai wrote:
| Yeah, a regular stapler. It's meant for drywall.
| ben_bai wrote:
| I guess that's why you need like 180 staples. Which may be
| considered more polite than drilling 2-4 big holes.
| IshKebab wrote:
| I think I'd rather fill 2-4 big holes than 180 tiny ones.
| Interesting idea though.
| ben_bai wrote:
| Looking through the pictures again it suggests those
| staple holes are smaller than pin holes and might be
| "filled in" with a single coat of paint.
| aikinai wrote:
| The staple holes are so small you likely don't need to
| fill them in. This is designed in/for Japan where most
| apartments have this weird soft textured wallpaper that
| hides the holes quite well. But if you drilled bigger
| holes in a rental, you would definitely be charged a lot
| when moving out.
| comeonseriously wrote:
| This looks like it would hold against gravity, but would it
| hold if I pull straight out towards me?
| ryanmarsh wrote:
| Dear god that's terrifying.
| robocat wrote:
| Looks like the mount is limited to 15kg? A quick sample of ten
| different 55" models 2020+ showed only two were less than 15kg
| without stand.
| aikinai wrote:
| I linked to the small-sized mount since the picture was
| clearer, but I actually use the large size[0] for my 55"
| since it's officially rated for 25kg.
|
| [0] https://kabebijin.net/products/detail.php?product_id=123
| gerdesj wrote:
| Your plasterboard/drywall looks different to what I'm used to.
| Here in the UK we have plaster with a thick paper surface. The
| photos in that advert imply to me that you have a woven surface
| of some sort in Japan.
|
| Staples would be unlikely to grip sufficiently in our
| plasterboard. I suspect that shear would not be a problem but
| moments will almost certainly be a bit of a problem. The
| failure mode here would not be the telly crashing to the floor
| vertically but gradually loosening from the top of the mounting
| and then swinging forwards off the wall.
|
| I use at least eight, six inch no 10 screws here for TV mounts
| into brickwork, with decent plugs. Into wood, ie stud wall I'll
| use shorter screws. I also sometimes use extra washers -
| depends on the load. I've never had a TV mount fail!
|
| A decent hammer drill/driver and a decent bit can drive a 8mm
| hole in a few seconds. By the time you've stapled in a hundred
| staples, I'd be watching the News! I would certainly not be
| trying to explain to the Boss (wife/partner) how the TV is held
| up 8)
|
| That said, those staples look like a very clever solution,
| given the right circumstances. Not everyone is happy with a
| hammer drill.
| aikinai wrote:
| You wouldn't just be watching the news; you could be done
| watching a movie on your newly-mounted TV before I'd be done
| with the staples! I recently upgraded to a larger TV and used
| the large version of this mount that used 750 staples. And my
| "wallpaper" here is some thick, rubbery substance that the
| staples can barely go through so each one had to be driven
| slowly with care, not using the momentum from the stapler
| pop. It took hours.
|
| This isn't for speed, but for when you don't have any other
| option.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| (Old) Pro-tip here. The regular brown rawl type plug works
| fine a lot of the time, but you want one with thicker
| plastic... and you don't necessarily need to pay more for it.
| Secondly in response to you point above...use a 7mm hole, not
| 8. It should take anything from a size 8-10 in good materials
| and a 12 in rubbish materials like soft brick. If you have
| problems some other tricks are to put a red plug inside the
| brown one, or drill a 5.5mm (red plug size) hole and stick a
| brown plug in it.
|
| Most builders won't buy the nice Fischer ones for you, so
| have to improvise...
|
| For places where you have a drywall dabbed to masonry you can
| have significant lateral movement between the plug in the
| masonry and the thing you are fixing on the outside of the
| plasterboard. That's where long plugged fixings massively
| help, where the plug reaches right through to the face of the
| dry lining.
| cptskippy wrote:
| > Your plasterboard/drywall looks different to what I'm used
| to. Here in the UK we have plaster with a thick paper
| surface. The photos in that advert imply to me that you have
| a woven surface of some sort in Japan.
|
| I just assumed that was wall paper. We had it in a living
| room of a house built in the US in the 1980s, it had 40 years
| of paint on it and was never coming off the drywall.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| Nifty idea.
|
| I wonder what's _really_ easier, though. I usually hang TVs
| with 4-6 screws. Is it easier to put in 4-6 screws, or 100
| staples?
|
| I guess the advantage of staples is that each staple is easier,
| and it doesn't require juggling a screwdriver, swapping bits,
| ect.
| aikinai wrote:
| Replied above, but the staples are almost certainly more
| difficult. It's just very secure without any studs and it
| doesn't leave large holes.
| 29083011397778 wrote:
| First and foremost, that's insane. Not surprising, but not
| something I would have thought existed before being told about
| it.
|
| I've never come across something like that in North America - I
| wonder if it's because (it appears) you'd need a special mount
| for the VESA mount to attach to?
| zimpenfish wrote:
| Looks like there's 232 holes in the backplate which gives you
| 464 staples to distribute the 15kg max across - giving ~32g
| per staple (although I guess it'd be biased from top to
| bottom because the TV would be a lever in the middle?)
|
| Definitely insane but also impressively bonkers.
| voxadam wrote:
| I wonder if such a mounting solution would work when paired
| with the crumbly gypsum based drywall commonly found in North
| America.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Probably not. Japanese construction is the best in the
| world (I think, by a fairly large margin). I have always
| been in awe of the speed and quality of their construction
| industry.
|
| Has to do with all the earthquakes they get, and strong
| government regulations (with big nasty teeth).
| mc32 wrote:
| They indeed build for earthquakes, but that does not
| imply they build for longevity. See:
| https://japanpropertycentral.com/2012/06/what-is-the-
| lifespa...
|
| Japan tends to tear down and rebuild their buildings more
| often than other countries. Old buildings depreciate in
| value rather than appreciate as people in Japan typically
| don't like "second hand" items up to and including
| housing.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Yes. I have heard that. It's odd, but it also means that
| you don't have many of the same problems that we do, in
| the US.
| ryanmarsh wrote:
| That's a big negative. Most of the anchors sold at the
| store fail with heavy loads. The best drywall anchor I've
| found is the cobra.
| patentatt wrote:
| Wait, what do they use in Japan? I've always loathed
| drywall but haven't known of any valid alternatives.
| nobleach wrote:
| What's to hate about drywall? It's easy to work with.
| It's fairly resilient to abuse. It's easy to paint. It's
| simple to patch. Having dealt with plaster, wood and
| concrete walls, I can't think of anything I'd rather.
| ashtonkem wrote:
| It's also fire resistant, because gypsum has a lot of
| water bound up in it. Drywall will resist burning, and
| will also slow down a fire as it takes a lot of heat
| energy to convert the bound up water to steam.
| aikinai wrote:
| Everything you need comes with the product. You staple the
| plate to the wall using little plastic films and then there's
| another piece that hooks onto the plate. Then you attach the
| TV to that piece with screws into the VESA holes.
|
| That connecting piece can either be articulating (like the
| one I linked to) or just a metal hook with screw holes on the
| other side (that's the one I have actually).
| ikpomtdk wrote:
| For those in the US, I've used this "No stud" TV mount multiple
| times with great success on TVs up to 43". Granted there is no
| swivel feature, it's super easy to install and very secure.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Hangman-Products-S-2040A-Hanger-55-In...
| diziet wrote:
| Also relevant from the amazing Project Farm youtube tester:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHb-Tcvkn7M
| rootusrootus wrote:
| That's an excellent video, and an excellent channel overall, I
| love his stuff. One thing that is left out of the video (and
| maybe isn't as useful as I think it is, I guess) is how much
| damage the anchors do when nothing goes wrong. Assuming you use
| them for a while, then need to remove them and patch up the
| result, what are you in for? Some of them come out clean with a
| small hole, some are going to leave parts in the wall forever,
| and I imagine mollies might actually do a fair amount of damage
| to get them out.
| js2 wrote:
| Drywall anchors that cannot be easily removed, you should
| push through the drywall, not try to remove them. As a
| homeowner, it's also worth learning basic drywall repair
| skills. You can buy 2' x 2' pieces of drywall and remove and
| replace a section between studs pretty easily. Learning to
| tape and mud properly so that it doesn't show after painting
| is the hardest part and takes some practice.
| antattack wrote:
| The best wall anchor review I've seen.
| jessaustin wrote:
| They're kind of fiddly to install, but when an inspector demanded
| additional handicap grab bars for which we hadn't installed
| blocking, I had good luck with a product called "WingIts". As in,
| after I installed the grab bar, I could lift my fat ass up with
| it.
| teekert wrote:
| This is very useful, wish I would have had it before I did a
| major reconstruction. That said, after 1-2 weeks of working with
| wood, concrete and bricks, you know exactly what you need and
| develop a feel for it very quickly. Initially just ask at the
| construction store, and just start.
| 99_00 wrote:
| Stupid question: Assume I have anchors rated at 20lbs. I put up a
| shelf using 4 anchors. The shelf weighs 10lbs. Should I assume
| that the shelf can hold 70lbs of evenly distributed weight?
| seized wrote:
| GripIt anchors are very good as well, they didn't review those.
| They are a bit tricky to install if the drywall is thicker or you
| end up near a stud. Bit they feel sturdy once installed. I've
| used them for dressers, free standing shelves, etc when a stud
| didn't line up.
|
| https://www.gripitfixings.com/
| rawling wrote:
| Yeah, the advantage of these is when you don't have the depth
| _behind_ the drywall you need to poke through one of the
| toggles, or even the tip of one of the self-drilling anchors.
|
| I'm just dreading ever taking my shelf down.
| jessaustin wrote:
| Every product on that site is marked "Sold Out"?
| user3939382 wrote:
| Here's a great video on the same subject if you're interested.
| This guy's data-driven approach to these types of tests is
| awesome: https://youtu.be/lHb-Tcvkn7M
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| Thanks for this. Anchor comparisons are common for
| diy/carpentry channels. Like you said, the data here makes this
| a stand out.
|
| The takeaway from these videos in my mind is that when you're
| hanging something with substantial weight, you really should
| consider putting your screws into studs.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-10-06 23:02 UTC)