[HN Gopher] Why return to the office if you're just Zooming all ...
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       Why return to the office if you're just Zooming all day anyway?
        
       Author : CrankyBear
       Score  : 40 points
       Date   : 2021-10-05 18:41 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.computerworld.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.computerworld.com)
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | I often wonder if the benefits of automation in the corporate
       | environment have yet to be realized...
       | 
       | Perhaps a good fraction of the executives and board members could
       | be replaced by autonomous AI systems with little effect on
       | profitability and productivity, indeed perhaps a positive effect?
       | 
       | The remote office setup might just be making this a more visible
       | issue.
        
         | WorldMaker wrote:
         | That's its own dystopia that some companies have chosen to ramp
         | up in the last year and a half.
         | 
         | What metrics do you think represent a productive employee? How
         | many minutes are spent in Zoom meetings? How busy their
         | calendar looks? How often they wiggle the mouse?
         | 
         | There's plenty of surveillance-ware companies have to already
         | track those and more employee metrics. There's plenty of social
         | media posts going viral of surveilled employees excitedly
         | learning they can put a mechanical watch under the laser input
         | of their mouse just so they can use the restroom or stretch
         | their legs without getting dinged for being "unproductive" on
         | "company time".
        
       | cyberpsybin wrote:
       | Have to bully wage slaves
        
       | NathanielLovin wrote:
       | I'm fine with remote work - people don't all need to be in the
       | same place. I'm just tired of work from home. Internet speed,
       | work/life balance, space for desk and monitors, etc.
       | 
       | Hopefully WeWork etc. can fill some of that need.
        
         | gremloni wrote:
         | I was forced to get a private office because my internet
         | connection at home is terrible. It really is the best of all
         | worlds-- it lets me separate home from work effectively, I'm
         | not worried about kicking my legs up and watching some YouTube
         | videos when I have downtime between meetings, let's me
         | concentrate on my work away from my wife and kids, it has a gym
         | that I use everyday after work and is right next to a golf
         | course where I play a round every Friday when we don't have any
         | meetings or I don't have anything pressing to complete before
         | the weekend.
        
       | eigengrau5150 wrote:
       | Do the Linux kernel devs use Zoom? Do they work together in one
       | building? How about any of the BSDs? Do _they_ use Zoom or work
       | together in one building -- aside from hackathons?
       | 
       | No, but the rest of us are supposed to put up with this bullshit?
       | Bosses and CEOs will literally force workers to Zoom from the
       | office instead of going to therapy.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | > No, but the rest of us are supposed to put up with this
         | bullshit? Bosses and CEOs will literally force workers to Zoom
         | from the office instead of going to therapy.
         | 
         | Hashicorp is fully remote, they're always hiring, and I highly
         | recommend the culture [1] (to name one enormously successful,
         | remote first org). Lots of other orgs to pick from [2].
         | 
         | You can't convince executives, who are dead set on return to
         | office, on remote work anymore than you can convince a southern
         | baptist there is no God. These are strongly held belief
         | systems, not data driven decisions. Don't swim upstream; vote
         | with your feet and don't work for orgs that make arbitrary
         | requirements about where knowledge work is performed.
         | 
         | Another path is legislation/regulation requiring businesses
         | accommodate remote work when able (because, of course, you
         | can't trust that they'll offer it out of the goodness of their
         | hearts), but that takes more time and collective effort to
         | accomplish [3].
         | 
         | [1] https://www.hashicorp.com/resources/remote-culture-at-
         | hashic...
         | 
         | [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28719320 (Control-F
         | remote)
         | 
         | [3] https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/10/03/which-countries-
         | pla...
        
           | ripper1138 wrote:
           | No need to convince anyone or write new laws. If remote work
           | is more efficient then it will win in the market eventually.
        
           | sokoloff wrote:
           | I'm entirely unconvinced that legislation is needed here. If
           | remote-first is a winner, firms using it will outcompete
           | those who don't. Forcing businesses against their will to
           | make an accommodation isn't likely to put those accommodated
           | workers onto an equal footing with those complying with
           | return-to-office wishes. So you then pass _more_ legislation
           | as a bad patch over your first ill-advised patch.
           | 
           | Remote and in-office can both exist. If one is wildly better
           | than the other, it will become dominant.
        
       | TrackerFF wrote:
       | Because for many leaders, keeping their workers in the office
       | comes down to asserting control.
        
         | thehappypm wrote:
         | edgy!
        
       | fatnoah wrote:
       | I've returned to the office for the two days per week that have
       | the fewest meetings, and it feels like the right balance. There's
       | still an opportunity for whiteboard time, getting up early 2 days
       | in a week feels more like adventure and less like a slog. I'm
       | actually surprised, since I thought I'd be one of those that
       | needed to be in the office every day.
        
       | swearwolf wrote:
       | Because commercial real estate leases are long and chances are
       | your company doesn't want to pay to break it. Not really a good
       | reason, but a popular one I'd be willing to bet.
       | 
       | Also sales people. More specifically sales managers. Who,
       | incidentally, often go on to occupy executive level positions,
       | taking their beliefs about the supremacy of face to face meetings
       | with them.
        
       | Hokusai wrote:
       | > As a recent article from The Washington Post put it: "They're
       | still spending most of their time isolated and glued to their
       | computers for Zoom meetings, email, and Slack."
       | 
       | At all companies I have worked for, teams sit together and talk
       | directly. And Meeting rooms are full of people talking face to
       | face. There are also international meetings, but that one are two
       | or three meeting rooms with a team in each one, not people
       | sitting individually.
       | 
       | You may like to work from home or not, but this opinion piece is
       | based in the authors personal experience, and it is at least
       | different from mine in all companies I worked for.
       | 
       | > Companies currently renting office space are just throwing
       | money away if all of their employees are still doing the same
       | thing at home that they were doing at work.
       | 
       | I agree with this sentence, and if your company is doing this you
       | should work from home if you want. I just do not think that it
       | applies so widely as the article suggests.
        
         | wetmore wrote:
         | They're talking about the new normal, not the way things worked
         | in your past jobs. For a current example, my girlfriend works
         | at a huge corporation and has to return to the office now for
         | at least 1 day a week. While in the office they are told not to
         | hold meetings together, but to Zoom into meetings, even when
         | everyone is in the same building.
        
           | Hokusai wrote:
           | That is not what my company is doing, first time I heard that
           | a company does such a think. I agree that it makes little
           | sense.
        
       | lvl100 wrote:
       | In my opinion, most office jobs are redundant. When the world
       | went WFH, these jobs were exposed.
        
       | thrower123 wrote:
       | This is the way I've worked for ten years in offices. We stopped
       | even bothering doing standups and staff meetings in the
       | conference room because it was easier to take things from our
       | desks.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-05 23:02 UTC)