[HN Gopher] Brave and Firefox to intercept links that force-open...
___________________________________________________________________
Brave and Firefox to intercept links that force-open in Microsoft
Edge
Author : gbil
Score : 425 points
Date : 2021-10-04 15:31 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ctrl.blog)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ctrl.blog)
| gespadas wrote:
| Microsoft, there's no need to do this. I already use Edge because
| its features and quality, don't make me regret it.
| manderley wrote:
| What quality? A buggy version of Chrome (the start page has
| been broken multiple times, for example) with tons of half-
| baked extra features?
| _arvin wrote:
| Well said. I use Edge in my Windows 11 VM (for Fidelity Active
| Trader Pro) and I like Edge a lot. Might reconsider now.
| Someone1234 wrote:
| What's frustrating is that Microsoft wins by default because
| _most_ users will never alter the defaults or even understand
| they have that choice.
|
| All this nonsense does is upset power users. Power users will
| be annoyed but not stopped by this stuff, and by annoying them
| you've created a negative atmosphere around your products that
| they will share with less technical users.
|
| Same thing as not allowing an "opt out" over analytics. I get
| that the analytics are useful, but if only 0.1% of your users
| are willing to opt out, is the negativity/fight really worth
| influential users spending years shit-talking you?
|
| Microsoft makes some really boneheaded decisions to be honest.
| Apple is way better at the subtle sleight of hand monopolistic
| stuff, Microsoft is like a bull in a china shop.
| Daneel_ wrote:
| Exactly! I couldn't agree more.
|
| I've always said that you need to look after power users'
| interests, because even though they're a small percentage of
| your user base they're the ones who influence everyone else.
| A single power user will likely influence their immediate
| family, their classmates, work colleagues, friends,
| relations.. easily a broad spread of people.
|
| Neglect power users at your peril.
| endemic wrote:
| > Neglect power users at your peril.
|
| I mean, I like this sentiment, and _want_ it to be true
| (hey $BIGCO, I matter!). But MS has already weathered a
| storm of bad PR regarding Win10 telemetry, and hasn't
| changed anything. What are people going to do, stop using
| Windows?
| slim wrote:
| Eventually MS figured out it actually those power users
| because they were developers. So they made visual studio code
| to lock them down like it's 1995.
| anttiharju wrote:
| I even use it on my Debian 11 install and android! It's pretty
| good.
| mongol wrote:
| I even tried it on Linux, and liked it. But I do not accept
| these kind of tricks there. It would be a pity if they breach
| my trust.
| supernovae wrote:
| The only time i see this link is when visiting a customers team
| site and its mostly because i refuse to install native teams apps
| just to join a call.
|
| I'm actually fine with having edge installed.. I have firefox and
| chrome too.
|
| There isn't a day that goes by when i Use edge that Google is
| spamming with with popups to switch to chrome or open in chrome
| or to try and auto-login with a google address.
| leodriesch wrote:
| It's very uncool of Microsoft to avoid the users default browser
| and search engine choices, but I also don't like Brave
| intercepting it, especially with their financial incentives with
| brave search.
|
| Imagine if Google would do the same. The outcry would be a lot
| higher, because Google is a bigger company. But in this case
| Brave is very similar to Google, just a lot smaller.
| KeepFlying wrote:
| But doesn't the interception just make it so when a URL fires
| for the first time you get a browser picker? Or do they force
| set it when you set your browser default?
|
| If it's the former then I'm totally in favor because there's a
| choice at least.
| undecisive wrote:
| Yeah, but most people are fine with (or at least resigned to)
| capitalism. What they object to is a lack of choice -
| especially when their choice is being actively subverted by a
| huge monopolistic entity
|
| (that said, if/when this feature does land, opt-in is
| definitely the way to go for Brave to show themselves to be
| completely non-scummy)
| WallyFunk wrote:
| The old joke: I only use Microsoft Edge to
| download Chrome or Firefox
| lakkal wrote:
| I used to say that IE was just the first stage of the
| Mozilla/Firefox installer.
| birdman3131 wrote:
| First and only website for Edge is ninite.com
| judge2020 wrote:
| Used to use Ninite but it's done some weird installs a few
| times. WinDirStat was nowhere to be found in my start menu
| once, and 7-Zip once had no start menu entry nor desktop
| icon, just the files in Program Files. Nowadays I just
| download each installer separately which also allows me to
| manage what options I check in each of them.
| dvlsg wrote:
| I'm still hoping winget[1] catches on so I can just utilize
| that for all the tools I typically use, but it seems like
| it's still a ways away from being fully ready. Still making
| progress, though.
|
| [1] https://github.com/microsoft/winget-cli
| tempfs wrote:
| Why use MSFT-overlayed Chrome(aka Edge) at all instead of just
| using Chrome?
|
| Edge will always lag Chrome for security matters and MSFT will
| just be yet another surveillance layer within it.
|
| Just use Firefox folks. It's fast, secure-ish and leaves you only
| one threat actor to keep track of instead of two.
| postalrat wrote:
| I primarily use firefox but I would choose edge over chrome
| simply because microsoft isn't completely depending on ad
| revenue.
| sabhiram wrote:
| Talk about full circle. IE vs Netscape anyone?
| lpcvoid wrote:
| Leave it to Microsoft to be openly user-hostile in every way
| possible, knowing perfectly well that it won't hurt their market
| share one bit. I have no idea why people think this is a
| different Microsoft now than it was under Ballmer.
| mywittyname wrote:
| > knowing perfectly well that it won't hurt their market share
| one bit
|
| Short-term, maybe not. Long-term...well, there's a reason
| everyone wants a Macbook anymore.
| lrem wrote:
| Are you saying that Apple is better at openness?
| mminer237 wrote:
| Whatever advantages Apple has over Microsoft (build quality,
| UX, polish, customer service, etc.), Apple is definitely not
| gaining on Microsoft because of greater customization
| options. Most OSX users just use Safari.
| walrus01 wrote:
| slightly less sweaty coked up ballmers on stage chanting
| DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS
| _arvin wrote:
| Guy is an embarrassment to the NBA and fans all across the
| world also. He just flat out sucks. Objectively. Money is all
| he has.
| AlexandrB wrote:
| > Money is all he has
|
| Luckily for him, in a capitalism "meritocracy" that's all
| that matters.
| _arvin wrote:
| Hopefully not for long. Change usually happens when our
| hands are forced
| [deleted]
| smoldesu wrote:
| So we slap Microsoft's hand for trying to make people use
| their (free) browser, and let Apple continue to print
| money by monopolizing software and content distribution
| on their hardware? I think we just need more stringent
| consumer protections in general, but there's a slim
| chance of that happening when you're as much of a CIA/FBI
| lapdog as Apple.
| recursive wrote:
| What's a better metric to be judged on than merit?
| AlexandrB wrote:
| It's not that merit is bad. It's that money is often used
| as a proxy for merit. If you have lots of money a common
| default assumption is that you earned that money through
| merit of some kind.
|
| So you have phrases like: "If you're _so_ smart, why aren
| 't _you_ rich? "
| rand846633 wrote:
| They went back from "extinguish" to "embrace&extend" so it felt
| a bit difference for a while.
| skohan wrote:
| Yeah it seems like they just waited for a new generation of
| consumers to grow up without knowing it is a trap. That plus
| waiting for the regulatory environment to give up on anti-
| trust almost entirely.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I used Windows 10 for the first time in years and was taken aback
| by the fact that despite Firefox being my default browser, a ton
| of Microsofty things open in Edge anyways. For example: search a
| term in the start menu and get the magnifying glass options for
| looking up related terms. They all just open in Edge for me
| anyway.
| m-p-3 wrote:
| You can make those Edge-only URL (using the "microsoft-edge:"
| protocol/URI handler) to open in your default browser using
| EdgeDeflector
|
| https://github.com/da2x/EdgeDeflector
| tephra wrote:
| Yes the author of the article, who happens to be the author of
| EdgeDeflector mentions this in the second paragraph...
| tadbit wrote:
| Welcome to the redditfication of hacker news. Next people
| will only read the titles.
| underscore_ku wrote:
| stop using Windows!! no one is forcing you to use Edge on Linux
| sva_ wrote:
| It seems like there is a Linux version for it, if you do want
| it though. It's even on the AUR.
| ffhhj wrote:
| When my Mac died I moved to Windows to escape the resource
| hungry OS updates. When my laptop with Win 10 dies that will be
| the end of Windows for me. Windows 11 is.. yuck!
| flixic wrote:
| I'd like to hear Microsoft's explanation for this "feature".
| hacker_homie wrote:
| I think it would be this 2nd last paragraph from the article.
|
| " So, how did we get here? Until the release of iOS version 14
| in September 2020, you couldn't change the default web browser
| on iPhones and iPads. Google has many apps for iOS, including a
| shell for its Chrome browser. To tie all its apps together,
| Google introduced a googlechrome: URL scheme in February 2014.
| It could use these links to direct you from its Search or Mail
| app and over to Chrome instead of Apple's Safari browser."
|
| Google did it first and Microsoft would like to link from its
| settings app to its browser.
|
| I'm having a hard time deciding if these are the same thing or
| not?
| deanCommie wrote:
| > I'm having a hard time deciding if these are the same thing
| or not?
|
| Well, obviously Microsoft would say they are.
|
| But any common sense evaluation of the situation would
| recognize that Google introduced their feature to get AROUND
| a limitation and offer customers choice (If you install
| Chrome on iOS you're saying you want that to be your
| browser), and Microsoft introduced the same feature to
| INTRODUCE a limitation (In spite of any other browsers
| installed, Microsoft is ignoring all signals and already
| supported protocol handling capabilities to force you into
| their browser).
|
| While a pedantic techie can read this and say it doesn't
| matter, the courts may see it differently.
| Spivak wrote:
| I would assume because MS wants to have end-to-end quality
| control on links that are built-in to the OS.
|
| This is the kind of edge case that would bother me to no end if
| I was an OS vendor because any ole program can install itself
| as a protocol handler. The last thing I want is to have happen
| is clicking something in the OS opens in a broken browser or
| doesn't open in a browser at all. And the only browser I know
| for sure is there and works the way I want is Edge or IE. The
| alternative is what Windows used to do is bundle (and still
| does) is open up its own window in an IE webview.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| Seems that way to me too. In this case too it seems to be a
| hack around Windows 10 still bundles IE11 to this day and
| there are some situations where users (for whatever wild
| reason such as wilting old Group Policies that should have
| been updated half a decade ago) still have IE11 as a default
| browser, and yet Microsoft knows from a QA perspective these
| pages no longer work on IE11 at all.
|
| On the one hand, at least this "hack" is implemented as its
| own protocol handler ("microsoft-edge:") which is how Brave
| and Firefox can "intercept it" (it's not like they are
| hacking some "interceptor", they are registering for the
| protocol just as any other protocol might see multiple
| registrants). On the other hand it is sad that this protocol
| was seen as necessary hack to Microsoft to get around Windows
| 10 backwards compatibility needs and the mistake of bundling
| IE11 with Windows 10 as a "fully supported browser for the
| life cycle of Windows 10" rather than an optional enterprise
| feature with an end date on the box.
| indymike wrote:
| I booted up Windows this weekend, and immediately was forced to
| login to my MS account, and it attempted to change my default
| browser. The solution was to reboot, pick Ubuntu from the Grub
| menu and to then delete the Windows partition and give the space
| to Ubuntu. I'm tired of fighting with computers I own that don't
| work for me.
| canadaduane wrote:
| This has been my response as well. I now understand why it's so
| important to contribute to free culture--whether operating
| systems or hardware. (Related aside: I'm very excited to be
| installing Pop!_OS on a frame.work laptop in a couple of weeks.
| I know it won't be perfect, but as a software engineer I intend
| to contribute to making things closer to perfect).
| marcodiego wrote:
| Meet the new microsoft.
| JohnFen wrote:
| ...same as the old Microsoft.
| walrus01 wrote:
| Microsoft doing exactly the same thing they were, twenty plus
| years ago, with the IE vs Netscape browser wars. At least they're
| consistent about being hostile. And now, of course, their main
| competition is Chrome and Google.
|
| https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=netscap...
|
| I would encourage anyone who doesn't use Windows 10 on a regular
| basis to take a look at what the 'defaults' are that Microsoft
| steers people towards on a brand new Win10 Home installation.
| Including the creation of a Microsoft account, bing, edge, all
| the telemetry turned on, etc. Just... Yuck.
| Spivak wrote:
| I find it hilarious that HN assumes that MS or any company
| should devote effort to supporting users who hate all their
| core products and only use Windows begrudgingly. Why even
| bother, if you could leave you already would have.
| snuser wrote:
| They are dangerously close and may be crossing the line with
| these moves
|
| mostly unavoidable bing integration, mostly unavoidable edge
| integration, unavoidable teams integration, bing rewards in the
| start menu
|
| I'd expect lawsuits to follow in the coming months and years if
| they don't take some steps back
|
| the marketshare they retain in the desktop space still places
| them in the classical monopoly position ( > 75%)
| gsich wrote:
| Well, seeing that Google and Apple do the same on their OS they
| might even get through with it.
| gsich wrote:
| Well, seeing that Google and Apple do the same on their OS they
| might even get through with it. iOS doesn't even allow
| alternative browser backends, so the bar is not even reached
| for MS.
| josefx wrote:
| > Microsoft doing exactly the same thing they were, twenty plus
| years ago,
|
| They never stopped, one big reason why Firefox restricts what
| plugins users can install was Windows installing plugins that
| could not be removed or disabled.
| mywittyname wrote:
| McAfee seems to have found a way around this. I picked up a
| new laptop for my parents a few weeks ago and found that the
| pre-installed crapware injects plugins to every browser you
| install.
| josefx wrote:
| As far as I could find Mozilla is signing at least one
| plugin by McAfee, but that at least seems to request
| permission to run and can be disabled.
| mook wrote:
| Hmm, do you recall any details about those things? My
| impression was that the bad extensions mostly came from the
| antivirus vendors, but I may be missing something as I didn't
| daily drive Windows for a period, and I'm interested in the
| details. Thanks!
| josefx wrote:
| The case I recall was the integration of the .Net Framework
| Assistant. The initial version installed itself after a
| Windows update and couldn't be removed, later versions seem
| to have fixed that.
| mongol wrote:
| I don't think they created microsoft-ie:// protocol links. In
| some ways, this feels worse.
| kelnos wrote:
| It's really sad how quickly we all forget. I know people who
| are a bit younger than I am, and came onto the internet in the
| 00s, after the height of MS's anti-competitive behavior in the
| 80s and 90s. I occasionally will talk about how I can never
| trust MS again, but they're a lot more forgiving, and believe
| that MS has changed, especially after Gates and Ballmer stepped
| down and Nadella took the reins.
|
| I remember a couple years ago when I bought a new laptop (with
| Windows 10 on it). I just wanted to get into Windows far enough
| so I could download a Debian installer and write it to a USB
| stick, and I was appalled at Windows' first-run setup
| experience, and the personal information it wanted me to give
| them, as well as the sheer volume of telemetry, ads, and other
| spyware I had to explicitly opt out of. And even then, MS was
| still pushing Edge and Cortana in my face all over the place.
|
| My last serious use of Windows was Windows 2000, and man,
| things have gone super downhill since then.
|
| I'm bummed that I was right to continue to not trust MS, but...
| well, there we have it.
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| It's not just Windows 10 Home. I have Windows 10 Pro. The other
| day after rebooting my laptop, I was prompted yet again with
| that setup page that tries to enable useless shit like Office
| 365 and change my default browser to Edge. Honestly not sure
| how this can be legal after they got busted for something
| relatively mundane like setting the default to IE in the past.
| ffhhj wrote:
| The difference today is that dark patterns aren't
| monopolized.
| zmmmmm wrote:
| It's actually the main reason I despise Apple for how it
| locks down iOS : it's not that I care specifically about
| that, but it creates cover for this kind of thing. The bar
| has been raised across the board now for what is tolerated.
| neodymiumphish wrote:
| Looking at past legislation/court rulings from the early days
| of the internet is pointless. They ruled that AOL had to
| allow other applications access to AOL IM, yet present day
| third party apps aren't given access to Apple's iMessages or
| Facebook Messenger.
| concinds wrote:
| Edge is messed up, in that you _cannot_ change the default
| search engine. It only changes the search engine for the URL
| bar, not for the new tab page (which is likely used just as
| much). I 'm not aware of any other browser that does this. It's
| so cartoonish that I couldn't believe it when I found out.
| [deleted]
| mdavidn wrote:
| You can configure the start page to use the address bar for
| search. That takes the cake for the most-obfuscated-default-
| search-setting, but at least the start page will send queries
| to DDG.
| manderley wrote:
| And then Edge will pop up the "suggestion" to change the
| search engine back to Bing with regularity.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| I really wish they'd focus on just making be best HW/SW that
| they can and respecting the user. For awhile I was rooting for
| them, they seemed the least bad of the tech giants. I was
| hoping they'd strategically differentiate themselves from the
| antitrust FAAG pack (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Google).
| _arvin wrote:
| It's such scummy behavior. Do better, Microsoft
| tsol wrote:
| To be pragmatic to an excess-- where is their incentive to? I
| agree this is an issue, and more than that a pattern-- but
| they seem to be any to continue unimpeded. I imagine when
| they push initiatives like this at meetings, they consider
| the risk- reward metric of such decisions. In this case, I
| don't think they'll see much real risk except for some
| grumbling as we are now
| _arvin wrote:
| Just eroded trust. Go ahead. Support that kind of behavior
|
| Choice over force
| pierrebai wrote:
| You mean rely and hope that whatever the user installed as
| the default browser will not mess-up help, documentation and
| other such links?
|
| I'm quite certain that all those non-standard URLs are all
| for internal links to OS-related information hosted on the
| web. If they instead just popped a custom app that hosted an
| Edge webview nobody would rip their shirts. Doing that would
| be ridiculous given that Edge is just there and has been
| tested and vetted by QA.
|
| Don't forget that these things need to work on all versions
| of the OS and in all locales. You're asking MS to trust that
| any 3rd party app will give proper user experience for any
| locale when presenting such links.
|
| It's not as-if MS was hijacking normal URLs. But ripping
| shirts is soooo much fun.
| _jal wrote:
| So the claim is that if I make up a URL scheme, it should
| be untouchable by other developers and only my software
| should respond to it?
|
| > Don't forget that these things need to work on all
| versions of the OS and in all locales.
|
| You are confusing Microsoft with their users. Microsoft
| needs that. No user does, and very few need more than one
| version and one locale.
|
| > But ripping shirts is soooo much fun.
|
| Right, there is no competitive aspect at all to see here,
| just hardworking monks trying to ensure the absolute best
| Windows experience with no other motives whatsoever.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| > I'm quite certain that all those non-standard URLs are
| all for internal links to OS-related information hosted on
| the web.
|
| You definitely shouldn't be certain of that. If I go open a
| folder and hit F1, I get an edge bing search for [get help
| with file explorer in windows] . The special embed at the
| top is a blog post on a site I've never heard of explaining
| that the question mark in the top right is for help. If I
| click that icon, _it opens another bing tab with the same
| search_. Below that embed is completely normal search
| results for [get help with file explorer in windows] . It
| 's actively worse than ddg and google.
| manderley wrote:
| They're not all for internal links to OS-related
| information hosted on the web, though. The start menu
| search will always open a Bing search in Edge, for example
| - doesn't matter what your default search is set to.
|
| Why are you writing with certainty about things you
| apparently have no firsthand experience with?
| verall wrote:
| This. It's absolutely infuriating. Honestly my browser
| defaults were broken for so long I assumed it was just
| that.
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| Apple does the same, no?
| warning26 wrote:
| Apple is fine on macOS -- changing your default browser is a
| simple setting. Their behavior on iOS, though (outright
| preventing installation of other browsers) should be illegal,
| IMO.
| blowski wrote:
| I think the OP was referring to the practice of
| "encouraging" users to sign up for iCloud, buy an Apple
| Watch, iPhone, iPad, Apple Music, Apple TV, Apple Arcade...
| and use Apple Sheets, Apple Mail, Apple News, Apple Maps,
| iMovie, Garage Band, etc.
|
| I'm sure they would argue they're just providing a seamless
| experience for users, but I imagine there's a tiny bit of
| business interest in there as well.
| skohan wrote:
| Apple tries to sell you, but I feel like they are better
| on dark patterns. Whenever I use Windows, I feel like I
| have to be actively on-guard against the OS subverting my
| intentions. There are a lot of problems with the Apple
| ecosystem, but that isn't really one of them.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| 'Fine' is generous I would say, Big Sur likes to throw up
| notifications inviting me to 'try the new Safari' because
| FF is my default browser. That's not miles from the way MS
| is behaving with Edge.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Have you tried changing the default app for .docx files? It
| just does not work. Right click on a .docx file in Finder.
| Hold down the Option key and you'll see "Open With" change
| to "Always Open With". Select LibreOffice or whatever you
| want. OK, that file now opens with LireOffice. But no
| other. WTF?
|
| This is no "simple setting" and is the same BS that MS
| does.
| i_cannot_hack wrote:
| I've never had any url open in Safari instead of the default
| browser on macOS.
| bogwog wrote:
| Oh, well, in that case it's okay.
| Someone1234 wrote:
| Yes.
|
| Ultimately though regardless of who is doing it, it is user
| hostile and needs to stop. Apple restricting browser engines
| on iOS doesn't somehow make Microsoft's steering and
| suppression of other browsers on Windows acceptable.
|
| The US needs much better consumer protections.
| pdpi wrote:
| Not quite, no.
|
| As a user, Apple allows you to change your default browser in
| both iOS and macOS quite easily.
|
| As a developer you can build a browser on top of whatever
| rendering engine you want, as long as you want to use the
| built-in WebKit.
|
| Crucially, they are plenty clear about what is, or isn't
| allowed (well, mostly -- plenty of app review horror stories
| around here), and all of that happens in the interaction with
| developers. The user experience is always pretty decent, and
| you don't have to deal with this whole "do this in 10
| locations" nonsense.
| notriddle wrote:
| Not really. In the Apple ecosystem, stuff either works or it
| doesn't. iOS doesn't let you install alternative browser
| engines. macOS does. Both of them let you use a browser shell
| of your choice.
|
| None of this "you can install a browser, but we're going to
| lie cheat and steal to stop you" dark patterns nonsense. As a
| user, Apple just tells you No, and you get to decide if you
| want to live with that or not.
| _joel wrote:
| I'm not aware of any links that force open in Safari?
| kenny11 wrote:
| Go to the Finder and choose "See What's New in macOS" from
| the help menu. Always opens in Safari regardless of what
| the default browser is.
| jefftk wrote:
| Confirmed. On my mac it opens
| https://help.apple.com/macos/big-sur/whats-new/ in
| Safari.
| smt88 wrote:
| On iOS, all links open in Safari because Apple doesn't
| allow any other browser. The "alternatives" are just
| wrappers.
|
| So Apple is actually worse than Microsoft.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Third party browsers on iOS use the same web engine as
| Safari (WebKit) but critically, do not wrap Safari
| itself. In principle third party iOS browsers are no more
| wrappers of Safari than fully independent desktop Linux
| browsers built with WebKit like Epiphany/GNOME Web and
| Midori.
|
| The various Chromium based browsers are much closer to
| being Chrome wrappers than, say, Firefox for iOS is a
| Safari wrapper because the latter has totally unique code
| for UI, interactions, password management, etc whereas
| the former is literally just Chromium with a few surface
| level changes.
|
| Apple could stand to allow third party web engines either
| way (perhaps with strict performance requirements, to not
| destroy user batteries), but I think the distinction
| matters.
| walrus01 wrote:
| a recent macos installation fresh configuration _does_ try
| to steer you towards using safari several times with popups
| and reminders.
| _joel wrote:
| Steering and forcing are two different things
| _arvin wrote:
| Lol, yes, it _is_ their flagship browser for all of their
| operating systems. I would sure hope that would be the
| default behavior or else I'd be getting a lot of phone
| calls from family members.
|
| Edit: mods quickly downvoting my comment. Okay. Will tell
| Paul Graham.
|
| Edit 2: every HN comment should lack any emotion or
| anything. Just robotic comments. Got it.
|
| Edit 3: Do better.
|
| Edit 4: HN bubble thinks they're above everyone else.
| Have a good one.
| _arvin wrote:
| You get to choose which app is default app in iOS 15 and 14
| as well I believe and maybe even before that. Not forced,
| just the default.
| ivegotnoaccount wrote:
| I may be mistaken but I recall reading several times that
| even though you can choose another app as the browser, all
| those apps are forced to use WebKit as the engine.
| twobitshifter wrote:
| That's correct, but the engine restriction doesn't force
| people to use Safari and it's possible to use either
| Chrome or Firefox front-ends. Apple wants to control the
| browser engine for a couple reasons:
|
| - if you're charitable: security.
|
| - If you're uncharitable: blocking the ability to
| undermine the App Store.
| ivegotnoaccount wrote:
| I know. I simply wanted to highlight the likely cause for
| parent's message downvotes, as none of the downvoters did
| it and things went quite sour in the sibling thread.
| _arvin wrote:
| Look at the downvoted coming. Wow. 10 points loss in like
| 30 minutes. Pathetic forum. Have fun in you echo chambers.
| You're no better than Reddit with the Gen Z crowd taking
| over. Congratulations, HN mods. Telling Paul Graham.
| _arvin wrote:
| Volunteers with no purpose and meaning in life stifling
| discussion in a forum. Because of their bogus forum
| rules. Have fun downvoting this one too, mod. Telling
| Paul Graham about you.
| [deleted]
| Shared404 wrote:
| Get a life.
|
| Saying something that gets you downvoted isn't something
| to be proud of, or ashamed of.
|
| Go troll someplace else, and stop wasting my bandwidth
| with your complaints about nothing please.
| _arvin wrote:
| You're a pathetic loser. Just want you to know that.
| Cheers.
| Shared404 wrote:
| Someone once told me not to take criticism from someone I
| wouldn't take advice from ;)
| samcal wrote:
| As curious as I am about what you think snitching to Paul
| Graham would accomplish here, the comment is likely
| downvoted because it undersells the importance and
| stickiness of defaults for most customers.
| _arvin wrote:
| Was kidding about telling Paul Graham. Ain't a snitch
|
| Thanks btw for blocking my IP, HN mods
|
| Typing from my cell connection. Block this one too.
| Censorship is awesome.
| wpietri wrote:
| Monopolies don't see themselves like a normal business, one
| that has to compete for customers by serving them well.
| Instead, their thinking is more like a cattle rancher: the
| users are their property, to pen and milk as they see fit.
| the_snooze wrote:
| Between hostile defaults, dark patterns in opting-out and
| unsubscribing, and persistent surveillance, a lot of
| consumer-facing tech these days is taking on what an
| obsessive abusive partner would do. I can't help but wonder
| if these systems are a reflection of who those designers are
| as people.
| JohnFen wrote:
| The more I learn about Windows 11, the more I think it's not fit
| for purpose.
| passivate wrote:
| Can someone explain where these links are located? I don't think
| I've ever come across one.
| CyberShadow wrote:
| Devil's advocate: if the link is in a Windows component, then it
| would somewhat make sense that clicking the link would open it in
| a first-party application which the OS vendor can control. If the
| association with http: URLs somehow got messed up (e.g. the
| default web browser got broken due to something outside
| Microsoft's control), you'd be in a worse situation than if the
| Control Panel etc. used a simpler but fully supported first party
| web browser.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Core help links in Windows used to use an embedded version of
| the system browser (at the time IE) originally
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Compiled_HTML_Help. If
| they wanted to do that today for the above reasons they could
| do the same with WebView2 which is the OS embedded version of
| Edge. Instead they are launching the external instance of Edge
| which can still be screwed up for reasons outside the OS's
| control (such as an experimental edge://flags option that
| causes a crash on launch).
| smolgumball wrote:
| I've started using Account Surfer on Windows to avoid this issue,
| as well as the general workflow issue of "I want to open any link
| I click in one of many browsers." The developer has also been
| very responsive to emails, bug reports and feature requests.
|
| https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/account-surfer/9phvp9rjr7r...
| dbg31415 wrote:
| Really easy way to fix a lot of that crap.
|
| https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
| zamadatix wrote:
| Also be prepared for random shit to break e.g. disable Cortana
| and discover it's what did Start Menu indexing.
|
| OTOH if you already know what things are officially toggleable
| (e.g. tips and tricks in the Start Menu) and stick to those
| then the UI in this is much faster than going through Settings
| or gpedit manually.
| comeonseriously wrote:
| Just wait. I thought Microsoft had changed, that they were
| different now.
|
| I guess not...
| Lev1a wrote:
| Truth is... the game was rigged from the start...
| siproprio wrote:
| > Brave Software is also considering taking things one step
| further. The company is planning to intercept Windows
| Search/Cortana links to Bing and redirect them to its users'
| default search engine instead.
|
| Yes! THANK YOU! OH MY GOD THANK YOU BRAVE!! FINALLY!
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