[HN Gopher] Government asks German residents to drive lorries ev...
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Government asks German residents to drive lorries even if they
never have before
Author : doener
Score : 76 points
Date : 2021-10-01 19:41 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.independent.co.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.independent.co.uk)
| elzbardico wrote:
| This could be easily solved with immigration from Latin America.
| Plenty of unemployed truck drivers that would love to move
| bserge wrote:
| Too European. Why not India?
| gumby wrote:
| Remind Boris that the Queen drove trucks during the war and she
| doesn't need _any_ driving license.
| vkou wrote:
| This may be true, but I'm not sure returning to the automotive
| safety record of the 10s[1] and the 40s is necessarily the way
| to go.
|
| Instead, it may be good to remind him that continental
| europeans drove trucks right before Brexit, and that if he
| absolutely insists that only Brits should be doing those jobs,
| that raising wages[2] tend to attract more employees.
|
| Or, alternatively, he could always mobilize the army to drive
| trucks, rather than guarding petrol stations.
|
| [1] Allright, allright, I suppose the immortal queen may not
| have been driving trucks in _that_ war.
|
| [2] By more than a pittance.
| afrcnc wrote:
| Germans couldn't care less. British xenophobia got them into this
| and, frankly, they deserve what's coming. All of Europe knew what
| Brexit meant except the British, apparently.
| zwieback wrote:
| I got my license in Germany in 1985 so I can drive a truck up to
| 7.5t with my license. If I remember correctly I could also add a
| trailer as long as the total weight is below 12t. That's real
| tonnes, not US tonnes so add another 10%. Seems totally insane to
| me and I never took advantage of it, largest was 3.5t rental
| truck. Here in the US larger pickup trucks are maybe 5 or 6 tons.
| A F350 dually gets close, though.
| max-ibel wrote:
| Especially delivering stuff, say, in the city of London must be
| hell if you never drove a lorry before. Generally, UK towns
| aren't quite as spacious as the US.
|
| It's wonderfully salacious that they're asking _german_
| drivers. Germans are widely seen as the driving force behind
| the EU buerocracy that mandated Brexit in the first place. Oh,
| the irony!
| tssva wrote:
| They are asking anyone licensed to drive HGVs to do so. This
| just happens to include German drivers licenses issued prior
| to 1999.
| phh wrote:
| Oh gosh I didn't know "US tonnes" were a thing, that feels
| crazier than usual measurements. Thanks for making me discover
| this
| jccooper wrote:
| Since it's not defined in the article, and I wasn't familiar with
| it, HGV = "Heavy Goods Vehicle". A cargo truck.
| Arech wrote:
| This is the most hilarious article I read past month!
| proactivesvcs wrote:
| You may also enjoy another contender, replete with punful
| commentary by the driver: "Mortar tanker tailed by drivers
| looking for petrol" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-
| northamptonshire-58767...
|
| "People need to stop and think... driving a tanker, no matter
| what the product, is quite a pressurised job, so following them
| puts extra pressure on drivers already under pressure without
| having to worry about absolute morons."
| mongol wrote:
| Haha, that one wins the prize!
| t0mas88 wrote:
| A bit clickbaity title. Reality: UK government sends letter to
| all drivers in the UK with a truck license to consider driving
| trucks. Germans with old licenses happen to automatically have a
| truck licence. End of story.
|
| Edit: Netherlands also has something similar with older licenses,
| so it's likely that not only Germans but more foreigners in the
| UK got this letter.
| gerdesj wrote:
| I'm a 50 year old Brit. I too have a 7.5 tonne lorry plus
| trailer endorsement on my license. Also, small PSV and various
| others. Everyone used to get them and that was probably EU
| wide. Not sure when it stopped.
|
| Provided you take corners carefully and use all the mirrors, a
| "box van" or a smaller "Luton" is easy enough to drive. The
| controls are pretty obvious and familiar but hillstarts and
| reverse hill starts need a little practice. When loaded, allow
| extra stopping and maneuvering space!
| bserge wrote:
| Even a 40 tonne tractor+trailer isn't hard to drive. I did it
| with a friend on long stretches of motorways. Surprising
| amount of torque and braking power. Reversing and maneuvering
| it anywhere is the real challenge :D
| xyzzyz wrote:
| Yeah, in US you can rent and drive 26 foot long truck (these
| are rated to 26000 pounds, so just below 12 tons) on a
| regular driver license in most places. And yes, these aren't
| that hard to drive, if you are paying attention.
|
| I like being able to just rent one if I need it, without
| going through complex licensing rigamarole like you do in
| Europe, and apparently lack of it has not caused the society
| to collapse ( we have not had terrorist truck attacks
| either). I find the American lenient system much more
| preferable.
| djrogers wrote:
| Federal law says you can actually drive a much longer
| vehicle than a 26 foot box truck, as long as it's GVWR
| isn't over 26k lbs. A few states may have more restrictive
| policies, but as far as the US Gubbmint is concerned, the
| weight is the key.
| labster wrote:
| > ( we have not had terrorist truck attacks either)
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
| [deleted]
| noizejoy wrote:
| The spaciousness of North America compared to Europe makes
| a significant difference in many driving related (and
| numerous other) issues.
| this_user wrote:
| > I too have a 7.5 tonne lorry plus trailer endorsement on my
| license. Also, small PSV and various others. Everyone used to
| get them and that was probably EU wide. Not sure when it
| stopped.
|
| It was pretty much the same in Germany. It was changed when
| the system was switched over to the new European driving
| license which was implemented in July 1996. Anyone who got
| theirs after the change will usually only have class B for up
| to 3.5t plus a 0.75t trailer.
|
| I'm a German who actually happens to have C1E. So who much do
| you currently pay for lorry drivers?
| gerdesj wrote:
| No idea but I will enquire ...
|
| If you search for "salary HGV UK" you get PS19-24K. That
| was probably last year and frankly wrong, now.
|
| I'm an IT consultant and MD of the firm and now wondering
| if I should get my big rig thang on! OK, I can drive a 7.5
| tonner on my driver's license and have done so, many times.
| I can also drag a trailer, according to my license.
| gbronner wrote:
| Don't make K turns either.
| quadrifoliate wrote:
| A _bit_ clickbaity is a reasonable criticism, but not "end of
| story".
|
| I think it's pretty reasonable to expect that older licenses
| that had these sort of automatic endorsements unbacked by any
| experience should have been excluded from the letters - so
| there _is_ a story here. 1999 was 22 years ago!
| WalterBright wrote:
| > 1999 was 22 years ago!
|
| It sure was. Back then, a mule pulled my car. We didn't have
| rubber tires, I'd take the wheels to the wheelwright's shop
| and have a new iron rim put on now and then. On the weekends
| I'd go varmint hunting with my trusty flintlock.
| munk-a wrote:
| Hey - at least you could listen to Nevermind while sitting
| for six hours for the portrait painter to finish their
| work.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Half my family died of dysentery while driving the wagon
| to Oregon one summer in the 90's.
| labster wrote:
| Back in 1999, they had to do self-driving updates over the
| air, which was by carrier pigeon. Worked pretty well, but
| you had to wash your car more often.
| MaxBarraclough wrote:
| Is it true that in the before times, you'd have to
| _manually_ deallocate memory?
| tux3 wrote:
| It's well known that most programs had automatic memory
| deallocation in the before times: your tool would call
| malloc, process its input, and let the OS free memory as
| soon as it exited.
|
| But some of the fanciest programs, like the Bourne Shell,
| were even more automatic: they didn't have to manually
| manage each allocation either. You'd simply write right
| on the heap and have your SIGSEGV handler do a brk()
| every so often!
| distortedsignal wrote:
| In the before time, deallocating memory meant pulling it
| out of the board.
|
| To free up memory on our systems, we bought new system
| and moved the old ones into a landfill.
|
| Permanent storage was on stone tablets, but read/write
| times were REALLY LONG. Backups took a really long time,
| too. Restoring was pretty quick, because you would just
| put the last-known-good tablets into the machine.
| gumby wrote:
| German driving licenses didn't use to have expiration dates
| and I haven't read that that changed. My ex still uses hers,
| issued in the mid 80s with a photo of her in her 20s
| tjansen wrote:
| Newer driver licences issued after 2013 do have expiration
| dates. Older ones without printed expiration date will
| eventually expire, depending on the owner's birth year and
| the year they have been issued. The first ones will expire
| in 2022 (for drivers licences issued before 1999 and
| drivers born 1953-1958). If she was in her 20s in the 80s,
| it will probably expire in 2023 or 2024.
| https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/reise-
| mobilitaet/u...
| wnevets wrote:
| The fact they're so desperate for drivers they'll willing to
| ask folks who haven't driven in decades is THE story.
|
| On a related note there's an meme going around of Boris asking
| the Queen if she would drive a truck since she did in WW2.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| In the USA, a standard driver's license lets you operate
| vehicles up to 26,000lbs or up to 45 feet without a CDL.
|
| That's essentially a lorry.
| dogorman wrote:
| Your _' Reality: [...] End of story'_ claim does not contradict
| the title. They may automatically have a truck license, but
| also have never driven a truck.
|
| If I got a truck license more than 20 years ago (before 1999)
| but never drove a truck in my life, I would definitely feel
| uncomfortable driving a truck. Shit, I feel a bit uncomfortable
| driving my car after a two or three month break. For 20 years
| to elapse between licensing and putting that activity into
| practice seems justifiably eyebrow raising to me. The headline
| doesn't even mention the 20 elapsed years part of it.
| iamtedd wrote:
| "However, the German government is understood to have not yet
| written to British people living there, asking them to consider
| driving an HGV when they have never done so before."
|
| What an irrelevant statement. Unless Germany is also experiencing
| a driver shortage.
| detaro wrote:
| Given the UK government has claimed there are " _very large and
| even larger shortages in other EU countries like Poland and
| Germany_ ", evidence for or against that (e.g. if governments
| feel the need for such measures) are probably relevant to
| public discussion in the UK about this ;)
| orwin wrote:
| To be fair, they are right, mainland europe do have a driver
| shortage.
|
| A friend of mine is the commercial of a company selling
| security detail services from Ukrainian ex-militia/military,
| and they started offering driver services, because the demand
| augmented that much in mainland europe (mainly east of
| germany, as they are the trips that pay the less).
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| brianmcc wrote:
| Please, worldwide HN-ers, remember that not all of us in the UK
| voted for this Brexit induced shitshow and would dearly love to
| see it all reversed :-(
| abraxas wrote:
| Brexit means brexit
| [deleted]
| inasio wrote:
| The quote by one of the German residents that got the letter is
| pretty great:
|
| One 41-year-old German man, who received two copies of the letter
| at his London home on Friday morning, one addressed to him and
| another for his wife, told The Independent.
|
| "We were quite surprised," he said. "I'm sure pay and conditions
| for HGV drivers have improved, but ultimately I have decided to
| carry on in my role at an investment bank. My wife has never
| driven anything larger than a Volvo, so she is also intending to
| decline the exciting opportunity.
|
| "It is nice to know there are specialist jobs available here for
| us though after Brexit. We would never have been headhunted to
| drive a lorry if we'd gone back to Germany."
| elzbardico wrote:
| Finance people are so insufferable. Yeah mate we're all glad
| you're an investment banker so you don't need to occupy
| yourself with such plebeian jobs. Great for you mate! I will
| make sure to vote for anyone who promise to tax the rich next
| election
| js8 wrote:
| If these jobs are sooo important, the market should pay for
| them. Or is Britain going to be a centrally-planned economy,
| that dictates people which jobs to have?
| Barrin92 wrote:
| I mean if we're now going to have shortages of fuel because
| we're _not_ living in a centrally planned economy that
| certainly be a funny twist on history
|
| sort of like a inverse soviet union. "If filled
| supermarkets were so important, the committee would have
| made it happen".
|
| Texans freezing to death, German's can't make any cars
| because there's no chips, Brits have no fuel, but we have a
| gazillion consultants and bankers. The market has spoken
| Guthur wrote:
| But this was a central planned choice. Brexit pulled the
| rug out from under the market and was a centralised
| choice not a market reaction.
|
| Also I'm unaware of whether or not the UK government, one
| of largest and oldest bureaucracies in the world actually
| anticipate this and provided the advice necessary.
| ljm wrote:
| So you would graciously quit your own job to drive an HGV for
| queen and country?
|
| You're on HN so I imagine you're earning as much as, if not
| more than, this investment banker.
| bellyfullofbac wrote:
| Even if the pay is better, it's brutally reckless to give
| people 7.5 ton machinery to control without prior training.
| But hey I guess Brexit means "Who cares about needing
| several months of truck driving lessons?".
|
| When they mow down a pedestrian crossing full of school
| children, the government can just say "Those dastardly
| Germans of the past!" except this time it'll be continued
| with "Why did they give unqualified people truck driving
| licenses?".
| [deleted]
| ljm wrote:
| In the UK, which is where this is happening, this is just
| about class. An investment banker who won't quit their
| job and become an HGV driver is construed as a statement
| on class. Middle/upper class turning their nose on
| working class.
| buzzert wrote:
| I'm so glad he declined. What would we do without those
| investment bankers?
| Guthur wrote:
| And isn't it so good that he can be an investment banker by
| his choice and not be forceful reallocated by the state.
| wanderingmind wrote:
| And yet he is staying in UK as he can't make such money back in
| Germany and complaints about UK and Brexit. Some people are
| just insufferable.
| Talanes wrote:
| You're complaining about someone making a mild Brexit joke to
| a reporter. Some people really are insufferable.
| thiagocsf wrote:
| How do you know that?
|
| Is it possible he just likes living in the UK?
| pstrateman wrote:
| lol no
| exar0815 wrote:
| Basically, every german with a drivers license before the 2000s
| is allowed to drive lorries with up to 7.5t, with 3.5t
| afterwards. Also, a lot of males doing mandatory military
| conscription had the ability to get a full truck license at the
| Bundeswehr for free. This is coming home to roost at the moment,
| as the voluntary fire brigades depended on most people being
| allowed to drive the big 40t or at least lighter 7.5t units.
| Slowly, this is sinking in and more are able to acquire those
| licenses, but its still a massive bottleneck.
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