[HN Gopher] Google Drops Plan to Offer Bank Accounts
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       Google Drops Plan to Offer Bank Accounts
        
       Author : infodocket
       Score  : 68 points
       Date   : 2021-10-01 16:22 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (seekingalpha.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (seekingalpha.com)
        
       | atkbrah wrote:
       | Google has managed to make themselves a startup of established
       | companies: You never know when the service you are relying on
       | gets discontinued.
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | Oh your google account was disabled for covid misinformation (or
       | some other reason), so you cannot access your money anymore. I
       | wold trust amazon to do this more than google.
        
         | htrp wrote:
         | Banks are heavily regulated for a reason
        
           | sb057 wrote:
           | Banks have successfully and legally blacklisted pornographers
           | for decades due to "reputational risk".
        
             | vorpalhex wrote:
             | But pornography is a high chargeback/fraud sector so that
             | is aligned with banks doing risk control.
             | 
             | Ideally a bank would capitalize on the underserved market
             | and find a way to manage the risk.
        
               | agentdrtran wrote:
               | and they often don't, markets are not perfect rational
               | actors
        
               | bastardoperator wrote:
               | Merchant banks already do exactly this. There is no
               | shortage of banks working with the adult industry, just
               | higher transaction fees and other stipulations.
        
               | xnyan wrote:
               | >aligned with banks doing risk control
               | 
               | This goes beyond risk control. Insurance has had this
               | figured out for a long time. You can model the risk of
               | porn chargebacks and charge fees accordingly that cover
               | the increased risk of chargeback. Bank behavior towards
               | adult entertainment is a reflection of prevailing
               | attitude of society in which we live, which is frequently
               | quite opposed to sex work. It's not a question of banks
               | demanding much higher feels for legal adult services,
               | they don't want them.
        
           | tomatotomato37 wrote:
           | Doesn't help if the regulators are the ones pushing for it;
           | e.g. Operation Choke Point
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | junon wrote:
           | Tell that to Paypal.
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | US PayPal isn't a bank.
        
               | junon wrote:
               | It sure acts like one.
        
           | scohesc wrote:
           | Banks heavily regulate _themselves_ now in a lot of aspects.
           | 
           | I believe since the PATRIOT act was passed, the onus of fraud
           | prevention was put on the financial companies, not the
           | government.
           | 
           | This has caused a big rift in the "freedom to exchange
           | currency with whoever whenever" crowd since the banks now
           | have the authority (and are actively using it!) to push
           | private companies into following their bidding.
           | 
           | A large part of Pornhub moving from an "anybody uploads" to
           | "premium content only" was because the credit card processors
           | didn't want to risk doing financial transactions with a
           | company that could _POTENTIALLY_ be (meaning: unproven)
           | hosting CSAM materials on their website... [1]
           | 
           | This was part of the reason OnlyFans was going to forbid
           | adult content on their platform, because of issues with banks
           | and payment processors. They were able to find one with more
           | acceptable terms (although with higher transaction fees on
           | the part of onlyfans) and were able to go back to providing
           | paid adult content. (again, we'll never know the true reason
           | why, but it's been the modus operandi of payment processors
           | to axe anybody who they don't want on their platform.) [2]
           | 
           | Fun fact, credit card payment processors add individuals to
           | their list of "people they don't want to do business with" -
           | which is then shared with other payment processors [3] - a
           | large one that's used by the majority of payment processors
           | is the MATCH list ran by Mastercard.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/10/22168240/mastercard-
           | endi...
           | 
           | [2] https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/27/22641095/onlyfans-sex-
           | wor...
           | 
           | [3] https://www.chargebackgurus.com/blog/mastercard-match-
           | list-a...
        
             | bazooka_penguin wrote:
             | Iirc onlyfans was actually because Christian special
             | interests and feminists pressured financial institutions to
             | drop them. I'll try to find the article that discussed it
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | encryptluks2 wrote:
       | I was actually excited about this. I was under the impression at
       | least with Plex, I would have more advanced banking
       | opportunities. SFCU's app sucks by itself.
       | 
       | With Plex not happening, it would be nice if they could at least
       | revert their awful new Pay app. Not being able to send money
       | online and the new fees make GPay essentially useless.
        
         | DangitBobby wrote:
         | I don't understand how they could fuck Google Pay up so bad. At
         | least there's Venmo.
        
       | bookofjoe wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/UVSWB
        
       | x-shadowban wrote:
       | They ought to do medical insurance, they might get it right, and
       | maybe we'd get some kind of standard electronic medical
       | representation out of it. You could get physical illness alerts
       | along with your windows defender pop ups. Imagine the good (yeah
       | yeah and bad) they could do with that. "Your surgery is eight
       | dollars but we keep the 4GiB of images we make."
        
         | nexuist wrote:
         | My understanding is that it is practically impossible to launch
         | a health insurance company today, even with Google's budget,
         | because the laws are so complex and impossible to digest that
         | there is no way to sign up customers at a worthwhile rate.
        
           | deadmutex wrote:
           | I thought most big companies self-insured. So, does that make
           | them insurance companies?
           | 
           | Hmm, I guess you still have "insurance" at big companies, and
           | they negotiate rates... so maybe the large insurance
           | companies are still involved in a significant way.
        
       | kyrra wrote:
       | Original article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-is-
       | scrapping-its-plan-to...
       | 
       | Mirror: https://archive.is/DfNpk
       | 
       | Googler, opinions are my own.
       | 
       | This was an ambitious product. It was lead by Caesar Sengupta,
       | who left back in March. Without the project's primary driver, it
       | got killed off (at least before it launched).
        
         | cronix wrote:
         | > Without the project's primary driver
         | 
         | Google has never heard of single points of failure? Strange. Is
         | this how all of your products are run, in that if the "head" of
         | the project leaves/gets ill/dies the whole thing just
         | vaporizes?
        
           | cjsplat wrote:
           | You jumped from a story about one emerging business line
           | concept to "all of your products", which is a pretty big
           | leap.
           | 
           | It is actually very common for new business ideas to live or
           | die based on the support from one senior executive - I saw
           | this from the inside at Fujitsu, Oracle, Sun and Google, and
           | at many partner companies from the outside.
           | 
           | In a new business line at an established large company, there
           | is almost always another business line executive's toes you
           | are going to step on.
           | 
           | For example, making computer hardware at Oracle steps on the
           | toes of Oracle people selling to computer hardware makers.
           | Shifting to open source steps on toes of internal developers
           | and existing suppliers.
           | 
           | It takes a executive support to maintain these kinds of
           | programs until the expected gain can be evaluated fairly
           | against than the risks.
           | 
           | If a key executive leaves there is quite often blow back on
           | their pet projects. From the perspective "outside the room"
           | it is frequently unclear whether the exec was just moving on,
           | fighting to the end, or saw the writing on the wall and left
           | while the leaving was good.
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | This seems like another incredible example of a bad product
         | management strategy of "whatever some employee wants to do".
         | Why would a major product direction be shelved because one guy
         | switched jobs?
         | 
         | If it was a good product, Google should restaff the project. If
         | it was not a good product, Google should seriously rethink the
         | autonomy it gives staff to decide to launch new products.
        
           | cat199 wrote:
           | he moved fast, and things broke - what's not to like?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | kevmo314 wrote:
           | Seems like a pretty good strategy to me. It's cool that one
           | employee can drive such a large change. Google should get
           | better at retaining talent though to mitigate this type of
           | risk.
        
             | kyrra wrote:
             | Caeser was a VP at Google. In the story from when he
             | left[0], his replacement has 3,700 people under him. So
             | it's a single person with a huge amount of influence. Bill
             | Ready came in and decided to do something different.
             | 
             | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28251591
        
           | mywittyname wrote:
           | > This seems like another incredible example of a bad product
           | management strategy of "whatever some employee wants to do".
           | 
           | It would be bad if they used this strategy for every
           | employee, but for certain employees, notably, those who are
           | likely to go found their own startups, it can be a great
           | idea. Google gets the potential to finance a "startup" for a
           | fraction of the hypothetical acquisition costs, and the
           | downside is paying the salary of a few dead weights if the
           | produce never takes off.
        
             | ocdtrekkie wrote:
             | I understand that concept, but there are better ways to do
             | that. Nobody is shocked when an Area 120 app (or a
             | Microsoft Garage app) gets shelved, because those are
             | "brands" specifically for Google and Microsoft to
             | experiment with startupy apps.
             | 
             | But when Google decides to put their main brand behind
             | something, announce it to the world, start collecting
             | signups, only to shut it down, that ends up continuing to
             | burn the company's reputation. In this case, it also
             | represented a significant partnership with a major bank,
             | which may have burned some bridges along the way.
             | 
             | And bear in mind, in this case, it sounds like this VP had
             | 3,700 employees under him... hardly a trivial cost of all
             | the wasted effort.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | I'm a huge fan of Google and was interested to see where this
         | initiative went. After seeing how Google Pay went (e.g.
         | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/the-new-google-
         | pay-r...), the world may not have missed out on much.
        
           | Marsymars wrote:
           | The Google Pay thing is a bit odd, because the new one is
           | only actually available in 3 of the 40 countries that Google
           | Pay supports - most places are still using the old one.
        
         | tlogan wrote:
         | I think he left because he knew that the project will be
         | killed.
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | I wonder how the lead of an ambitious project like this one
           | gets wind of an upcoming project cancellation? Is it changing
           | business needs, or political winds shifting?
        
             | arthurcolle wrote:
             | You can frequently see the writing on the wall even if its
             | not explicitly made clear, especially in a megacorp
        
           | latchkey wrote:
           | He was at Google for 15 years. Now working on something else
           | in finance (and he is based in Singapore).
           | 
           | https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/21/next-billion-users-head-
           | ca...
           | 
           | https://www.arbo.works/
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jrm4 wrote:
       | As someone who generally likes Google, I'm glad this is _not_
       | happening. No currently large tech company should also be a bank;
       | that level of extreme consolidation can only end in a negative
       | for users.
        
         | tadfisher wrote:
         | Google would have been a frontend, like any other neobank. Plex
         | accounts would have been offered by Citi, BBVA (RIP), and other
         | chartered financial institutions. No consolidation necessary,
         | or worth it; retail banking is so heavily regulated that it's
         | more of a loss-leader for other products that actually make
         | money.
        
           | Zafira wrote:
           | I feel like this would have been a culture clash waiting to
           | happen and I feel like it would drive Google to eventually
           | create some sort of bank subsidiary if this had actually
           | worked out.
           | 
           | That said, I can't imagine the customer service experience
           | with Google fronting a bank would be very good and random
           | failures on free services are enough of a pain, now put
           | actual money in it and watch people really flip out.
        
           | jrm4 wrote:
           | Google would have been a frontend _at first._
           | 
           | Retail banking is so _currently_ heavily regulated.
           | 
           | etc. etc.
        
         | ikiris wrote:
         | I actually disagree here, nothing would have stomped down on
         | their account support abuse faster than them being a bank and
         | fucking over people.
        
       | kintamanimatt wrote:
       | With their track record of discontinuing products I wouldn't
       | dream of signing up, even if it were offered and amazing. Who
       | knows when the rug would be pulled out from under my fiscal feet?
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | Unlike the other areas Google operates in, banking is actually
         | regulated even in the US
         | 
         | Though I'm sure we would quickly discover the exact boundaries
         | of what's allowed by said regulation
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | alyandon wrote:
         | That or having an algorithm incorrectly decide you are a bad
         | actor and immediately freezing your account with no real
         | recourse other than appealing the decision via webform only to
         | have it denied 7/10ths of a second after you submit it.
        
           | NazakiAid wrote:
           | Don't forget the linked Google Account and YouTube account
           | getting banned as well
        
       | slownews45 wrote:
       | For the best.
       | 
       | Just today we have (another) situation - user added a card that
       | works for apple pay to google pay, but google pay not only didn't
       | add it but suspended the account entirely. They rely on google
       | pay for google fi, so are now likely to lose their phone number.
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/googlepay/comments/pmyog8/what_can_...
       | 
       | Customer support is no help (of course).
       | 
       | If Amazon did this it would be a different story, but google just
       | takes craps on the users on their way to the bank - I can't
       | imagine them having enough customer service focus to manage a
       | bank type offering!
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | Healthcare, banking/finance, cars, telecom - it seems like every
       | time a big tech "disruptor" enters a highly regulated industry
       | they get a healthy dose of reality.
        
         | patrickaljord wrote:
         | More like, they realize "heavy regulations" are meant to
         | protect incumbents from having to compete against new actors.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Not arguing that regulation is corrupt and broken in a lot of
           | ways, but it's also not hard to see that the usual "move fast
           | and break things" development and shipping process in tech
           | should not be used in areas where people's livelihoods (or
           | lives) are on the line.
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | Or regulations evolve slowly to protect against outliars
           | which tend to be ignored otherwise.
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-01 23:02 UTC)