[HN Gopher] Cloudflare Distributed Web Gateways: Unlocking the W...
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       Cloudflare Distributed Web Gateways: Unlocking the Web3 Metaverse
        
       Author : elithrar
       Score  : 98 points
       Date   : 2021-10-01 13:06 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.cloudflare.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.cloudflare.com)
        
       | muttantt wrote:
       | Many are missing what Cloudflare is doing. They are taking over
       | every aspect of the web and beyond. I see their market cap being
       | $300B in less than 5 years easily.
        
       | Navarr wrote:
       | The "Semantic Web" is crying about having its Web 3.0 moniker
       | stolen by blockchain
        
       | kordlessagain wrote:
       | What would be cool is to hook the Lightning Network up to NGINX
       | to implement 402s with micro Bitcoin payments, in exchange for
       | content or processing of some ML thing.
       | 
       | The response code has literally been sitting there all this time,
       | waiting for an implementation of crypto for access.
       | 
       | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/402
        
         | thinkmassive wrote:
         | Check out LSAT https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28459713
        
         | xur17 wrote:
         | https://lightning.engineering/posts/2020-03-30-lsat/
        
       | jamescostian wrote:
       | > Cloudflare has an advantage that no other company in this space
       | -- and very few in the industry -- have: a global network. For
       | instance, content fetched through our IPFS Gateway can be cached
       | near users, allowing download latency in the milliseconds.
       | Compare this with up to seconds per asset using native IPFS. This
       | speed enables services based on IPFS to go hybrid. Content can be
       | served over the source decentralised protocols while browsers and
       | tools are maturing to access them, and served to regular web
       | users through a gateway like Cloudflare. We do provide a
       | convenient, fast and secure option to browse this distributed
       | content.
       | 
       | It's wild to see people who love the word "decentralized" also
       | love it when an organization tries to _centralize_ a something
       | that 's decentralized. It's really hard in these times to know if
       | someone is trying to pump and dump for sure, or if they're being
       | genuine.
        
         | gfodor wrote:
         | The terminal state of successful decentralized technologies is
         | always going to be one where there are some large centralized
         | nodes. This is true for the Internet, for Email, for the Web,
         | and so on. So consolidation of crypto by the backing of large
         | mainstream companies is just one more sign that it's here to
         | stay.
        
         | atrus wrote:
         | If Cloudflare goes poof tomorrow though, IPFS will still work,
         | albeit slower.
        
         | pimterry wrote:
         | > It's wild to see people who love the word "decentralized"
         | also love it when an organization tries to centralize a
         | something that's decentralized.
         | 
         | I don't think that's a good description of what's happening
         | here.
         | 
         | IPFS content accessible via Cloudflare's gateway isn't
         | dependent on Cloudflare itself at all. They're just acting as
         | another equal peer in the network (albeit a widespread & well-
         | connected one). If Cloudflare disappears, the content remains.
         | 
         | It's exactly like a large organization providing extra seeds
         | for a popular torrent - it doesn't take anything away from the
         | rest of the network.
        
           | jamescostian wrote:
           | Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it totally different from a
           | large organization seeding a torrent, because everyone
           | downloading data from them is also likely seeding the torrent
           | too while downloading it, while anyone using the gateway is
           | not also storing any info on their machines?
           | 
           | Won't this gateway make it less likely to have some sort of
           | p2p app take off, because why help out peers at your expense
           | when you can get what you want from Cloudflare at no expense?
           | Or maybe I'm looking at IPFS wrong - I interpret it as
           | something meant to become popular (meaning much more non-
           | programmers would use it than programmers), but I suppose if
           | it remains a small community like torrenting, then it could
           | remain effectively decentralized despite Cloudflare's
           | gateway, because of how many users are being peers instead of
           | solely leaching
        
         | sudhirj wrote:
         | This view is not self-contradictory. It's possible to justify
         | the statement that GitHub has been as much a net-positive to
         | the software community as Git, although it's technically a
         | centralisation of a decentralised system.
        
           | jamescostian wrote:
           | git has a narrow target market, which is developers. There's
           | a high percentage of cloning, so if GitHub goes away all the
           | data remains on people's machines.
           | 
           | Things that are supposed to be able to become mainstream have
           | to expect different users. They need to expect a ridiculously
           | high amount of e.g. Cloudflare usage. Most people aren't
           | developers. And things like Cloudflare's gateway make it
           | _harder_ to sell  "use this app that uses your phone's
           | storage space to store things you like", because those cost
           | storage space while Cloudflare is free. Sure, the systems can
           | still be decentralized de jur, but de facto they are
           | centralized. Git remains decentralized de facto due to the
           | high percentage of git users who clone things.
           | 
           | GitHub's codespaces definitely are super centralized, and if
           | they became mainstream, _then_ I 'd argue that git is
           | centralized de facto.
        
             | Wallacy wrote:
             | Its not like that.... If you send you code to github, then
             | deleted that code in our computer, and github goes down
             | before any other person cloned your repo and decided not
             | delete, then you code is lost.
             | 
             | You same question can be applied here: Why someone will
             | download a random repo on the github and store just for
             | fun? No one will do that without any reason. So, on git the
             | only people that keep any file/repo offline, has any
             | interest on that content to be hosted with then.
             | 
             | The same here, if I send any file using IPFS, the same file
             | will be accessible using any gateway, my own gateway, my
             | neighbor, or some other that i dont know who owns in other
             | part of the globe.
             | 
             | The gateway is just a gateway. Its one way to find some
             | asset on the network, and has a optional cache. Months ago
             | I send one file using IPFS, then accessed via cloudflare
             | (and others) gateway, then I deleted my file, and in few
             | hours the file was inaccessible in every gateway that i
             | tested. No gateway keep you file forever....
             | 
             | But then can if they want, anyone can keep any block if
             | they want. So, the same way as my previous example using
             | git! The asset will exists util everyone that hold that
             | asset want to keep, but because you cant control the others
             | nodes, once some asset is public over the network, thats
             | can be "forever" or just few hours.
             | 
             | So... IPFS is more about in how you can share assets
             | privately than the lifetime of the object. And with or
             | without cloudflare IPFS is decentralized because at any
             | point i can setup any gateway that can listen my assets in
             | the same way (same hash) than any other gateway.
             | 
             | IPFS gatway is much more about node discovery + cache....
             | No centralization happens here. You can store third party
             | blocks in you node if you want, or rely on other nodes if
             | want, but thats is up to you. Its the same as upload
             | anything to any cloud then delete the local copy.
        
       | chromatin wrote:
       | This indicates that Cloudflare are publicly announcing and
       | soliciting application for beta access to their IPFS and Ethereum
       | (JSON RPC) gateways. This is incredibly exciting, and, coupled
       | with the recent R2 announcement, suggests they are very much
       | going to be disrupting existing spaces AND defining new markets
       | (as the Stratechery article also recently posted on HN also
       | describes).
       | 
       | Bullish on Cloudflare :)
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | impostervt wrote:
       | So, it seems like you'd still need to use metamask (or similar)
       | to store your keys and sign transactions. Then metamask (or
       | similar) could call cloudflare to publish the transaction.
       | 
       | Metamask is a giant pain for new users. I was hoping this would
       | somehow get rid of it. Perhaps the browsers could integate this
       | functionality.
        
       | benatkin wrote:
       | > Unless you happen to hang out with the Web3 community in Hong
       | Kong, San Francisco, and London
       | 
       | Pretty funny. I'm sure NYC and Seattle have blockchain dev scenes
       | than London.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_technology_centers#Glo...
        
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       (page generated 2021-10-01 23:02 UTC)