[HN Gopher] MEGA65 - highly advanced C64 and C65 compatible 8-bi...
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       MEGA65 - highly advanced C64 and C65 compatible 8-bit computer
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2021-09-30 16:06 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (shop.trenz-electronic.de)
 (TXT) w3m dump (shop.trenz-electronic.de)
        
       | buescher wrote:
       | The retrocomputing sweet spot for me would be reproduction
       | keyboards with nice mechanical switches and DB9 joystick ports.
       | For both the Atari 800 (4-joystick) and the Commodore 64/VIC-20,
       | please. Something I could use with an emulator or eventually
       | something like the MiSTer.
        
       | billyjobob wrote:
       | My issue with this is the price. Not because it's not worth it,
       | but because it means no one outside of hardcore enthusiasts will
       | buy one, that means very little software will ever be developed
       | for it.
       | 
       | Also I find the presence of the floppy drive in 2021 ridiculous.
       | Yes the C65 had one - but that was a prototype machine from 1990
       | that was never produced. There's no c65 software available on
       | floppy disk, so no reason this couldn't have used sdcards
       | instead.
        
         | buescher wrote:
         | Is the floppy drive fast? That would be cool.
        
         | anonymousiam wrote:
         | Agree. The price is about double what it should be, and right
         | now it's vaporware.
        
         | pgeorgi wrote:
         | It seems that there's an SD slot at the front, right below the
         | floppy drive.
        
           | davewongillies wrote:
           | There's actually two, from the specs sheet:
           | 
           | * dual SDHC(tm) card slots
        
         | rbanffy wrote:
         | > because it means no one outside of hardcore enthusiasts will
         | buy one
         | 
         | I can imagine a version based on an emulation using a small ARM
         | with the same physical keyboard and box, minus (or maybe not)
         | floppy. The board is costly, and they expect to sell a finite
         | number of units, so they need to recover the cost of the
         | plastic injection tooling within that batch.
         | 
         | Having future versions based on emulated hardware would open up
         | a market and drive down unit costs to more THEC64 Maxi levels,
         | which would be extremely beneficial.
         | 
         | I'm looking forward to more retro machines, even if based on
         | emulators, but with accurate physical reproductions of vintage
         | hardware.
         | 
         | For lots of platforms, the physical object is not that
         | important - We have 102/104-key with layouts that replicate
         | most post PC-AT Unix workstations - it's the same layout we
         | use, that the Archimedes and its descendants used, that most
         | SGI's, most HP's and most other post-AT computers used. For
         | those, the most important physical aspects are easy to
         | replicate. If you really want, even a Trinitron tube can be
         | replicated with a flexible OLED display and some bent plastic.
         | 
         | For computers like the C-64, 128, 65, Amigas, 8-bit Ataris,
         | ST's, Apple II's, ///s, and earlier Macs, Sun workstations,
         | Lisp machines, Alto's, Lilith's, DECs and others, the illusion
         | will break if you use a PC keyboard and mouse. It'll feel
         | strange.
        
           | gardners wrote:
           | A small ARM cannot emulate the MEGA65's 40MHz CPU or 81MHz
           | pixel-clock VIC-IV video controller, unfortunately.
        
         | snvzz wrote:
         | >price
         | 
         | I'd consider buying one at 300EUR. I'm not even contemplating
         | it at the current price.
         | 
         | >floppy ridiculous.
         | 
         | I disagree. Floppies are very adequate to this sort of
         | hardware, and an important component of the classic feel.
         | 
         | I just wish the drive faced the right side (like a keyboard
         | Amiga) instead. It's not like they have any ports in there.
         | 
         | Inserting floppies from the front seems extremely uncomfortable
         | to even think about.
        
           | romwell wrote:
           | Tape drive would have been more appropriate, and more fun
           | though :)
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | snvzz wrote:
             | I suffered enough of that back in my C64 days.
             | 
             | Anybody who could afford it did get a floppy drive. I got
             | an Amiga 500 at some point, instead.
             | 
             | I still have the hardware and the tapes, so I intend to get
             | everything operational again at some point. It's just in
             | the back of the queue, as I am busy dealing with a lot of
             | "retro" platforms already.
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | At the end of the c64 era I had hd. Ran a large bbs. In
               | the beginning of the c64 era a 1541 was more than enough.
               | 
               | Using a hard drive for a c64 isn't uncommon.
        
         | kwanbix wrote:
         | Yeah, 800 euros for something that for me would be to remember
         | my C128 days is too high.
         | 
         | I can get a RPi4 for much less and install an emulator.
         | 
         | I understand that this is (should?) be better, but still, 800
         | euros!
        
         | russdill wrote:
         | People want hands on physical hardware. If you just wanted
         | 2021, you could run everything in an emulator. Having a floppy
         | drive is cool and nostalgic.
        
         | gardners wrote:
         | The MEGA65 has dual SD card slots as well as the floppy drive.
        
         | jug wrote:
         | I'd consider it at EUR400 (i.e. above a full MiSTer setup
         | price) if it was a well crafted case like this but an Amiga
         | 1200 equivalent with a C64 mode and SD card slot as "floppy".
         | Something more pragmatic.
         | 
         | This one instead reminds me of those Vampire FPGA's with SAGA
         | graphics mode running on a so called Motorola 68080, that is so
         | niche on a niche system that nothing is developed for it other
         | than tech demos and software compatibility suffers to boot.
         | 
         | Then again, I don't like to complain about these passionate
         | projects! They're clearly 80's "dream machines" of sorts. I
         | just think that from a financial/success perspective this may
         | not be where most profit is at.
        
       | radicalbyte wrote:
       | The MiSTER has filled this gap for me - even if I do need to find
       | a nice keyboard to use with it.
        
         | wiz21c wrote:
         | For those who don't know the project :
         | 
         | https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki
        
       | codezero wrote:
       | I pined over a lot of retro hardware over the past year, there
       | are a lot of competing modern C64 and Amiga hardware, at the core
       | of most of them are FPGAs, so if you want to save money and have
       | a large set of options, get yourself a DE-10 Nano / Mister setup.
       | It's kind of the kitchen sink of retro computing at this point
       | and runs < $200. You can emulate everything from an Apple II,
       | C64, ZX-Spectrum, most consoles through the 90s, Amigas, even a
       | 486 (though it's shaky).
       | 
       | What you won't get is an already set-up system, a nice case, or
       | simple to attach peripherals, but I haven't had too much trouble
       | with it, except trying to get a formatted hard disk for an Amiga
       | into an SD card with files on it, but I figured it out :)
        
         | snvzz wrote:
         | I absolutely agree about MiSTer.
         | 
         | If you're into this, that's the hardware to get. A massive
         | ecosystem of cores with good software to choose, configure and
         | keep them all up to date.
         | 
         | I just wish the target devboard was among those supported by
         | the open synth/place/route stack. Maybe in the future, somebody
         | will make an OSHW custom board for the purpose, using a well-
         | supported FPGA that could also hopefully be fatter than the one
         | the DE-10 Nano has.
         | 
         | But, right now, MiSTer is the way to go.
        
         | christkv wrote:
         | These guys just announced a version of the mister hardware
         | trying to make it more accessible to use for end users
         | https://rmcretro.store/mister-multisystem/
        
           | jug wrote:
           | This looks interesting! I've long wished for a more mature
           | MiSTer system that feels like a complete retro
           | console/system/computer. There ARE already many options there
           | but involves 3D printed parts, soldering, or more. If I could
           | just throw an added EUR50-100 on the problem I'd gladly
           | consider it, and this looks promising. I don't really fancy
           | the official rectangular case. It looks more like a hacker
           | platform. Which, I guess, it is... But...
        
           | codezero wrote:
           | Wow this looks great. Now I almost regret having the janky
           | DE-10 Nano and SDRAM hanging off a power cable next to my TV.
           | 
           | I love the form factor and the cases! Thanks for sharing
           | this.
        
       | TeaDude wrote:
       | I'm buying one because I have problems but I sincerely think
       | there should be a cut down version. Especially one without a
       | floppy drive (What if you don't actually have any old floppies
       | and just want a cool embedded games platform?)
       | 
       | I mean, I'm not seriously expecting this to be the next big
       | computing platform but I do think that a lower barrier to entry
       | would help adoption.
        
         | 300bps wrote:
         | Can check these out as an alternative:
         | 
         | https://ultimate64.com/
         | 
         | The Ultimate 64 is the computer and the Ultimate II+ acts as a
         | memory card reader for a Commodore 64 so you can mount
         | different .d64 images to it.
        
       | pvg wrote:
       | Recently:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27231293
        
       | blue1 wrote:
       | Yikes! I've been waiting for this, but 793EUR!
       | 
       | I understand the reasons. Quality parts, small run, etc. But then
       | I wonder: suppose I am so crazy to buy one. Extremely cool,
       | certainly.
       | 
       | But then?
       | 
       | I stopped writing C64 software 27 years ago. Fondly remembering
       | POKE 53280 is one thing, but doing that again...?
        
       | bastardoperator wrote:
       | Love the idea but the cost is just too prohibitive.
        
       | omarhaneef wrote:
       | I can see which generation of people has hit their peak earnings
       | by tracking which decade's nostalgia hits the market.
       | 
       | Not that I am complaining: this scratches my itch. I just wish it
       | were _even_ easier to obtain software.
       | 
       | I think the reason the pi and this are accepted over an emulator
       | is because I don't want to run strange software on my main
       | machine(s).
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | It would be tempting at a lower price but I'm inclined to save my
       | money for a machine that runs Win 11 and can take a current
       | generation GFX card.
        
       | jagger27 wrote:
       | The keyboard assembly is really cool and I personally appreciate
       | the effort, but I bet all that custom plastic really adds onto
       | the price. Custom double shot keycaps are not cheap. I wonder if
       | there could be a much cheaper option with a simpler case and a
       | PS/2 keyboard adapter instead. Perhaps even USB could work, but
       | that feels wrong for this project.
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | But it's part and parcel to the experience, right? It's a
         | tactile thing.
         | 
         | It's a stand alone, one piece computer, like the old days.
         | 
         | I mean, you don't restore a Chevy Bel-Air and put bucket seats
         | in the front, right?
         | 
         | Even down to the floppy. You get to thumb through the floppy
         | case to find a copy of "Burgertime", shove it in the slot, plug
         | in your joystick, hear the "whirr tick tick tick" of the
         | floppy, and then MUSIC! CRESCENDO! ATTRACT MODE! AWAY WE GO! In
         | all it's one channel, 8 bit splendor.
         | 
         | Pretty sure the market isn't folks looking for a bare board
         | with cables strewn about. There is a lot of effort out there,
         | and many folks, trying to replicate this "retro" experience.
         | And others willing to support it.
         | 
         | Otherwise, yea, run a simulator on...well, anything. "Whee".
         | 
         | It's not my cup of tea, mind, but I'm not the one buying it
         | either.
        
         | jabl wrote:
         | Well, where do you draw the line? Eventually you arrive at just
         | running an emulator without bothering with hardware at all.
        
           | loudmax wrote:
           | I would draw the line at EUR200. A lot of people can justify
           | EUR200 for nostalgia. If you can run the old software and the
           | hardware has the right look and feel, people won't mind the
           | details too much. Far fewer people can justify nearly EUR800.
        
       | HelloNurse wrote:
       | > Awesome chiptune potential: 4 SIDs, OPL2(tm) (wip), 4-channel
       | 16-bit DMA-based Audio in FPGA
       | 
       | FOUR SID devices? A new lot of actual 6581 or 8580 chips (which
       | would justify the price, BTW), FPGA approximations (likely), or
       | emulated in software?
        
         | Narishma wrote:
         | It says FPGA in your quote.
        
       | gardners wrote:
       | The first 400 sold out within 8 or 10 hours. Less than 900 in the
       | second larger batch remain available at last check.
        
       | joeberon wrote:
       | As someone who is often interested in buying music hardware, it
       | is hilarious seeing people freaking out about the price of this
        
         | EamonnMR wrote:
         | You could slap a midi interface snd and knobs onto a few SID
         | chips and sell it for way more than this.
        
       | sumthinprofound wrote:
       | for 800 it would have to include a spiral bound user manual.
        
         | zokier wrote:
         | Like this one? https://shop.trenz-
         | electronic.de/media/image/98/f1/dd/MEGA65...
        
           | sumthinprofound wrote:
           | perfect. I was looking at the pdf version on the actual
           | mega65 site but did not see this. ty.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-30 23:01 UTC)