[HN Gopher] Can You See Me Now? A measurement study of Zoom, Web...
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       Can You See Me Now? A measurement study of Zoom, Webex, and Meet
        
       Author : pramodbiligiri
       Score  : 33 points
       Date   : 2021-09-29 18:55 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arxiv.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arxiv.org)
        
       | athenot wrote:
       | > In case of Webex, all sessions created in the US appear to be
       | relayed via its infrastructure in US-east. This causes the
       | sessions among users in US-west to be subject to artificial
       | detour, inflating their streaming lag.
       | 
       | Former webexer here. That depends on many criteria, sessions can
       | go through multiple locations depending on where the customer is
       | located, the features being used, the type of customer, etc.
       | Since Webex also does transcoding (useful when a 4k wall system
       | and a cell phone are on a same meeting), that can influence where
       | the traffic flows.
       | 
       | Webex, Zoom and Google also all have their own backbones to
       | reduce the number of hops over the public internet.
       | 
       | In this case the researchers appear to be based in New Jersey so
       | they would be more likely to enter the internal network via the
       | eastern POPs.
        
       | listenallyall wrote:
       | Personally, I've been pretty impressed with Jitsi especially
       | given that it's open source. So far it's been easy and the people
       | on the other end have had no problem connecting, despite not
       | having previously downloaded any client software. I had high
       | hopes a ways back for appear.in but they unfortunately lost that
       | domain and I have no idea what the new one is.
        
       | camgunz wrote:
       | My prayers have been answered. Google Meet devs I beg you, make
       | the app more efficient.
        
       | travoc wrote:
       | I worked at a company that blocked the native clients for every
       | conference system except WebEx. The Zoom and Skype web experience
       | was not good, particularly since all endpoints were loaded with
       | half a dozen Infosec agents and sending all traffic through web
       | proxies on the other coast.
       | 
       | Surprise, the somewhat primitive Webex offered the best
       | experience in that scenario and vendors who wanted to meet were
       | inclined to accommodate us.
        
         | wenc wrote:
         | > Surprise, the somewhat primitive Webex offered the best
         | experience in that scenario
         | 
         | But it's not a surprise in this scenario since WebEx is the
         | only one not hobbled, no?
         | 
         | I've used all 3 and WebEx is second to Zoom but better than
         | Skype.
        
         | azinman2 wrote:
         | Webex interface is... not great. Zoom isn't either and I'm
         | quite surprised it's as popular as it is given the UX.
         | Surprising these things are as difficult as they are and yet
         | get such adoption.
        
           | soylentnewsorg wrote:
           | The webex interface is perfectly fine, but if you are
           | comparing it for the use case of zoom and skype, your target
           | interface is wrong for the tool you're using. Webex is for
           | working on something together. Multiple users using an
           | application to manage some piece of hardware or software for
           | example. Zoom and skype are for talking about something
           | together.
           | 
           | Let's say you get a new server. It needs several teams to set
           | it up - storage to provision/rescan/configure disk, infosec
           | to do domain/antivirus/dlp work, db team to get the database
           | going. They're going to share an rdp session over webex and
           | hand it off to each other to type commands, with everyone
           | observing and catching mistakes. Yes, it's possible to give
           | desktop control to someone on zoom, however that is a
           | secondary afterthought of zoom, while for webex it's the
           | primary function. Right tool for the job - don't transport a
           | piano in a sports car then complain the sports car is.. not
           | great.
        
             | azinman2 wrote:
             | We use Webex at work (a very large tech company). I use it
             | for it's intended purposes. My issues:
             | 
             | 1. The reaction buttons don't indicate that anything is
             | actually happening for you when you click them, you only
             | can see others reactions. They're also quite hidden when
             | they come, make no noise so easy to miss, and don't tie to
             | the video.
             | 
             | 2. The "people joined" ding is very non-intelligent. It
             | used to be when 30+ people were queued for something to
             | start, once it did it just dinged like crazy. Now it seems
             | work has turned that off in a way I cannot turn back on,
             | which means when people are late for a 1:1 they're staring
             | at me and I have no idea since I now have people blocking.
             | A heuristic that would be aware of # participants, when
             | people are joining, and batching up dings I cannot imagine
             | would be groundbreaking research when this is your product
             | you're building.
             | 
             | 3. The actual controls for video on mobile to switch camera
             | is quite bad.
             | 
             | 4. Screen sharing works _ok_, except it has no integration
             | with the resolutions on both sides, Apple's accessibility-
             | based zoom, I'm given a red dot for a cursor but it doesn't
             | appear that way on the other side, and cursor tracking is
             | extremely laggy and jumpy on the remote side despite my red
             | cursor that's giving me the impression of a laser pointer
             | equivalent.
             | 
             | 5. When someone is screen sharing, the controls for what to
             | do with the video of others are not very good. Order is
             | non-deterministic (afaik), not easily changed, provides few
             | layouts, and not easily hidden.
             | 
             | 6. When screen sharing I'm given a large list of all my
             | windows to choose from. They're in effectively a random
             | order (not alphabetical, not by z-index on my Mac, etc),
             | and the mini photo of them are usually unintelligible and
             | difficult to pin point the one I want.
             | 
             | These are just some of the bad UX that I encounter daily in
             | work usage. I could probably come up with a list of 10+
             | more issues without even thinking much about it, and we
             | haven't even touched the "interface" level issues (eg
             | actual design).
        
             | blacksmith_tb wrote:
             | I am not sure you can answer a subjective assessment with a
             | blanket dismissal - obviously at some level the webex UI
             | can't be completely unusable (lots of people do use it),
             | but apparently some people just don't like it. It has what
             | strikes me as an unpleasant installer (like BlueJeans, it
             | seems to only work if you download an installer and run it
             | for every call, which seems excessive somehow).
        
       | finnh wrote:
       | I was on a webex recently, and after years of using Zoom I was
       | all "oh, wow - is see Webex has a 'make my skin look worse'
       | feature. Gotta compete with Zoom somehow"
        
       | fouc wrote:
       | > Despite its significance, there has not been any systematic
       | study characterizing the user-perceived performance of existing
       | videoconferencing systems other than anecdotal reports.
       | 
       | > We find that the existing videoconferencing systems vary in
       | terms of geographic scope, which in turns determines streaming
       | lag experienced by users. We also observe that streaming rate can
       | change under different conditions (e.g., number of users in a
       | session, mobile device status, etc), which affects user-perceived
       | streaming quality. Beyond these findings, our measurement
       | methodology can enable reproducible benchmark analysis for any
       | types of comparative or longitudinal study on available
       | videoconferencing systems.
       | 
       | Seems like a very useful study at first glance!
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-29 23:01 UTC)