[HN Gopher] Kraken Security Labs Identifies Vulnerabilities in C...
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       Kraken Security Labs Identifies Vulnerabilities in Commonly Used
       Bitcoin ATM
        
       Author : 2bluesc
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2021-09-29 14:34 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.kraken.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.kraken.com)
        
       | easymovet wrote:
       | Why is HN Bitcoin news biased toward FUD?
        
       | gpcr1949 wrote:
       | Interestingly, my location has some monero ATMs that take cash,
       | and the 10% or so fee (and apparently - various vulnerabilities)
       | seems well worth it for what is by all measures a quite low
       | effort hands-off way to get money that is quite anonymous, at
       | least for most low key purposes, such as small recreational drug
       | orders etc.
        
       | vmception wrote:
       | and do what? the article lacks any inspiration, like it says you
       | can get into the admin panel, but what does the admin panel let
       | you do? can you change a subtle address to get some of the
       | bitcoin fees for yourself? raise the fees to 100%?
       | 
       | the article then mentions some stuff like access to the
       | bootloader, which of course means you could flash a more capable
       | admin panel into that lets you do way more like take everyone's
       | bitcoin
       | 
       | but what about the default admin panel?
        
         | gizdan wrote:
         | I mean all of that tells me that you could do whatever you
         | really want. Never mind the admin panel, even if it won't let
         | you change the wallet, overwriting the firmware would certainly
         | allow you to change the wallet where Bitcoins go.
        
           | vmception wrote:
           | yeah I know, I already covered that
           | 
           | > the article then mentions some stuff like access to the
           | bootloader, which of course means you could flash a more
           | capable admin panel into that lets you do way more like take
           | everyone's bitcoin
           | 
           | I was just wondering why they would spend so much time
           | talking about the lower effort stuff, if it doesn't do
           | anything. I'm sure it does something bad, but I can't go over
           | to my convenience store and say "someone might change the
           | convenience fee to a slightly higher percentage!" to get them
           | to do anything, if thats the extent of the attack surface for
           | just the admin panel if its already surveilled, so its useful
           | to be able to say exactly why
           | 
           | I can imagine social engineering would allow a fake
           | technician to come and service the machine though, with a hat
           | and a voluntary personal mask mandate not being conspicuous
           | right now. It would look so much more official to have a
           | bunch of cables and computer doing a firmware flash lol.
        
       | anonu wrote:
       | > Commonly Used Bitcoin ATM
       | 
       | Really? How common are Bitcoin ATMs? And if they are
       | geographically common, how often are people using them beyond the
       | novelty factor?
        
         | carrja99 wrote:
         | I live in Missouri and witnessed an elderly woman withdraw cash
         | from one at the mall some time ago. Was really floored by that
         | one!
        
         | latchkey wrote:
         | Coinstar has one in many major super markets in the US.
         | 
         | https://www.coinstar.com/bitcoin
         | 
         | You notice these in other countries quite a bit. Makes it super
         | easy to buy crypto with local currency. Makes it easier to
         | travel with more than 10k cash... no declarations at the
         | airport, no risk of being robbed of cash.
         | 
         | Makes it easier for locals to send and receive money from
         | abroad.
        
           | xur17 wrote:
           | Fees weren't great, but I used one of these for cash on an
           | international trip when I forgot my atm card.
        
         | wcoenen wrote:
         | "Commonly used" is not referring to the number, or usage, of
         | Bitcoin ATMs out there. It is referring to the fact that a
         | large fraction of the existing Bitcoin ATMs are "General Bytes
         | BATMtwo (GBBATM2)" machines.
        
         | Geee wrote:
         | There are quite many. https://coinatmradar.com
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | There's a bunch of them where I live (I'm in LA area though),
         | including the 7-Eleven right down the street from my house. I
         | used it when I was first trying to learn about Bitcoin but
         | haven't used it for a practical reason yet; financially, it
         | makes more sense to use Local Coin Swap if you don't need
         | physical cash.
        
         | xanaxagoras wrote:
         | It's the easiest way to stack sats without forking over your
         | government ID.
        
         | ProjectArcturis wrote:
         | There's one near my office and I often see people who are
         | probably drug dealers feed stacks of hundred dollar bills into
         | it.
        
         | NavinF wrote:
         | They're commonly found at hackerspaces.
        
       | madars wrote:
       | It would be interesting to compare this with other low-hanging
       | fruit attack vectors. If you already have physical access, what
       | velocity controls are there in place to prevent me from just
       | repeatedly running cash through the ATM to clear out the entire
       | wallet? vmception is right that long game attacks are way more
       | interesting.
        
         | reedjosh wrote:
         | > running cash through the ATM to clear out the entire wallet?
         | 
         | Just guessing, but the machine probably scans the serial
         | numbers on bills.
        
           | thebean11 wrote:
           | That doesn't help too much does it? Since you aren't
           | permanently losing the money using a few 10s of thousands in
           | cash isn't such a big deal.
        
             | reedjosh wrote:
             | True, but at least you would need unique bills to run
             | through, and law enforcement can then track those bills.
        
               | KirillPanov wrote:
               | Law enforcement can laugh at you when asked to track
               | those bills...
        
       | scoofy wrote:
       | This has always been my #1 reason I'll never get into crypto. My
       | bank has insurance, my physical assets aren't accessible to
       | people on the internet. I likely won't lose my entire life
       | savings simply because I either forget my password or I use one,
       | single, vulnerable device, ever. (Yes, I fully realize you
       | crypto-millionaires took a small risk and won big, and kudos to
       | you)
       | 
       | The benefit of institutions is that they are able to plan for
       | failure within their system. Yes, this comes with some costs
       | attached, but the costs associated with decentralized and nearly
       | unregulateable commodity markets have not even begun to surface.
        
         | thebean11 wrote:
         | If you can lose your currency by forgetting a password or using
         | the wrong device then you set things up incorrectly IMO. There
         | are good ways of doing things where your keys stay on a device,
         | or are only exposed to an offline machine with no network or
         | persistent storage.
         | 
         | Obviously it gets a little more technical, that's why services
         | that manage the keys for you are so popular.
        
       | sleepybrett wrote:
       | This is probably good for bitcoin.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-29 23:01 UTC)