[HN Gopher] How to spot a perfect fake: the world's top art forg...
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       How to spot a perfect fake: the world's top art forgery detective
       (2018)
        
       Author : Geekette
       Score  : 26 points
       Date   : 2021-09-28 10:24 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | chris_overseas wrote:
       | I posted an article earlier today[0] about an AI that recently
       | identified a probable fake painting. It certainly seems like an
       | area where AI should be able to compliment and/or outperform
       | humans.
       | 
       | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28692543
        
       | keiferski wrote:
       | If you are at all interested in art forgery (or just good cinema)
       | I highly recommend the Orson Welles film _F for Fake._ It's a
       | true story about how a man who faked a biography of Howard Hughes
       | went to meet one of the greatest art forgers of the 20th century,
       | all wrapped together with great commentary on the concepts of
       | fakery and originality. Incredible film.
       | 
       | The entire thing used to be on YouTube but here's the trailer:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/twlA_yzagXo
       | 
       | Edit: _Every Frame a Painting_ made a great analysis video on it
       | too:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/1GXv2C7vwX0
        
         | devindotcom wrote:
         | I'd never heard of this, how interesting. I'll save this for a
         | rainy day (and there are lots coming). Thank you.
        
           | keiferski wrote:
           | No problem! It is a really entertaining movie.
        
       | devindotcom wrote:
       | The story of the fake album of Galileo's moon illustrations was a
       | truly fascinating one:
       | 
       | https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/12/16/a-very-rare-bo...
       | 
       | and one of my favorite stories of all time, about the theft of
       | the Mona Lisa, similarly may hinge on forgery:
       | 
       | https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/reprints/why_mona_lisa_s...
       | 
       | Unfortunately you have to page through in this virtual magazine,
       | but it's a great read. Apparently not entirely substantiated
       | though.
        
       | nehushtan wrote:
       | (2018)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | teleforce wrote:
       | Detecting anomaly and fake is the foremost killer application of
       | AI. Given enough 'ground truth' data with enough details and
       | dimensions, AI algorithms should be able to spot anomaly or fake
       | much better than any human and it can be easily scalable unlike
       | human.
       | 
       | Ironically, however, the thing that make AI popular to the mass
       | is deepfake. For this purpose, AI is then being used recursively
       | to accurately create and detect deepfake in a useless vicious
       | cycle.
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | The discussion about "If the fake is good enough, what's the
       | problem?" was dismissed by the article hastily. They suggest that
       | to study a fake Rembrandt as a real one, would muddy our
       | understanding of Rembrandt. I wonder how many of these fakes in
       | private collections are studied at all? In fact if studied,
       | aren't they detected as fakes?
       | 
       | It's an honest question, if a forger is as talented as Rembrandt
       | then why isn't their work valuable too?
        
         | elliekelly wrote:
         | The Barnes Foundation has (or at least used to have) a really
         | great exhibit where they'd showcase the real art alongside a
         | reproduction.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | > It's an honest question, if a forger is as talented as
         | Rembrandt then why isn't their work valuable too?
         | 
         | Because there's no originality in it and the time for that
         | style has passed. Plus, there will always be more imitators.
         | Same reason tribute bands aren't notable, even if they perform
         | better than the original musicians.
        
         | nubb wrote:
         | Wouldn't a fair argument be that replication isn't as valuable
         | as art creation?
        
           | JoeAltmaier wrote:
           | But these forgeries are not copies - that would be trivial to
           | detect ("Hey! Here's the real one over here!")
           | 
           | They're imagined art in the style of a master. Perhaps a
           | recreation of a lost work, or a portrait of a historical
           | figure not previously pictured. Lots of creation in that.
        
         | aaroninsf wrote:
         | <researches the legality of forged NFTs, quickly pivots to
         | legitimate NFTs for forged works>
        
         | bell-cot wrote:
         | No snob appeal, nor bragging rights with your rich friends (or
         | well-to-do supporters of your museum).
         | 
         | No perceived scarcity, to (hopefully) appreciate in value as
         | the uber-rich keep bidding up the values of very scarce goods.
        
           | bloqs wrote:
           | This not a helpful approach. Art maintains it's value as it
           | expresses the depth of human creativity. If someone imitates
           | it, it's an entirely different (and vastly more common)
           | skillset and thus considerably less valuable. Further
           | devalued by the communal irritation at fakes in the art
           | community. Creatives take humanity forwards, it is the cusp
           | of that creative point that is being celebrated.
        
             | keiferski wrote:
             | This is largely a Romantic conception of art (circa early
             | 19th century) and not one that would necessarily be true
             | when _art_ meant something like _craft_ , which was what it
             | meant for a long, long time (see the Latin _ars_ or Greek
             | _techne_.)
             | 
             | Medieval European artists, for example, likely would have
             | no issue with any sort of copying or "fakes", as the
             | primary goal wasn't self-expression.
        
           | JoeAltmaier wrote:
           | It's hard to make a forgery. I'd guess it doesn't change the
           | scarcity equation much?
        
             | bell-cot wrote:
             | This. From a quick web search, a matched pair of portrait
             | paintings by Rembrandt sold for $180 million in 2016.
             | 
             | I'll venture that the most-skilled art forgers currently
             | living would jump at the chance to earn even 1/100 that
             | much, for producing a pair of faux-Rembrandt paintings.
             | 
             | [Edit - add the obvious missing "the".]
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-29 23:02 UTC)