[HN Gopher] Malloc (YC S21) takes on mobile spyware
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       Malloc (YC S21) takes on mobile spyware
        
       Author : Phithagoras
       Score  : 16 points
       Date   : 2021-09-28 05:12 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (techcrunch.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (techcrunch.com)
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Cat and mouse in an asymmetrical playing field. The problem is
       | that the bad guys can use this app to fine-tune their malware.
        
       | asveikau wrote:
       | I think this is the category of comment that I've seen downvoted
       | in the past, but it needs to be said:
       | 
       | I wouldn't name a company "malloc".
       | 
       | The meaning is very specific, its usage well established and old,
       | and it would seem to me this company has nothing to do with it
       | and shouldn't claim the name.
        
         | Zababa wrote:
         | I feel the same. I don't like when companies use a word that
         | already exists.
        
           | asveikau wrote:
           | I think a word that already exists is probably fine a lot of
           | the time. But an _unrelated technical term_ with a 50+ year
           | history...
        
             | Zababa wrote:
             | You're right, that's a better way to put it.
        
       | md_ wrote:
       | > The rising threat of spyware has prompted both Apple and Google
       | to introduce indicators when a device's microphone or camera are
       | used. But some of the more elusive and more capable spyware --
       | the spyware typically used by governments and nation states --
       | can slip past the hardened defenses built into iOS and Android.
       | 
       | > That's where Malloc says Antistalker comes in. Malloc's co-
       | founders Maria Terzi, Artemis Kontou and Liza Charalambous built
       | the app around a machine learning (ML) model, which allows the
       | app to detect and block device activity that could be construed
       | as spyware recording or sending data.
       | 
       | That's a bit of a non sequitur, right?
       | 
       | If sophisticated malware is bypassing the OS-level "open mic"
       | warning, that's presumably because it's bypassed the OS security
       | model. As such, it should just as easily be able to avoid
       | detection or simply disable any other detection mechanism, ML-
       | driven or otherwise.
       | 
       | (If the issue is sophisticated malware that does _not_ involve
       | privilege escalation, e.g. by executing code inside the sandbox
       | of a trusted app, I could see how an improved detection approach
       | would help, but e.g. NSO and similar tend to use sandbox escapes
       | + privesc, AFAIK.)
        
       | motohagiography wrote:
       | Threat model is the business model on this. Notable that the
       | founders are women, and though it shouldn't be remarkable at all,
       | and perhaps it's sexist to speculate they're going to leverage
       | that, but it's a useful indicator because antistalker tech by/for
       | women is an influencer channel for other products. They're a
       | consumer app company and gender doesn't matter to the tech
       | itself, except from a product perspective, it's really a
       | potential advantage in this case.
       | 
       | The generic threat model for most security tools (which, suck)
       | has been the individual vs. the state or various generic
       | criminals, whereas the threat actor in a mostly feminine threat
       | model would be the much higher likelihood/impact scenario of
       | stalkers, who are as likely to be co-workers and IT admins as
       | they are classmates, neighbours, or internet followers. Few want
       | to even say this out loud because just verbalizing it is off-
       | brand and comes with an ick factor. Hence no good products for
       | it, yet. Stalkers get away with it because acknowledging them as
       | part of your story at all elevates them to the level of peer or
       | factor, and so the product discussion itself is often too gross
       | to want to get into.
       | 
       | Solving for that is technically much more focused and useful from
       | a secuirty perspective than say, taking on the universe of bad
       | cops and spies. Plus, women are more likely to leverage recourse
       | to law enforcement (instead of physically beating a stalker), and
       | so security tech that has to be designed to keep out a nation
       | state to get security influencer adoption isn't helping most of
       | them.
       | 
       | Nobody in the security companies I worked for wanted to talk
       | about these issues seriously because of the ick factor and a
       | bunch of nerdy white knights diverting all uncomfortable
       | discussions to blockchains, but it's also what creates the
       | opportunity. This seems like a really smart play.
        
         | SanthoshAditya wrote:
         | Hey, I am new to this site. I want to talk to you. How can I
         | send you a message?
        
       | newbamboo wrote:
       | This is great but I think we're heading towards a world where we
       | just have to assume our devices are compromised. Maybe I'm alone
       | in that, but I feel like it's only a matter of time before we all
       | get there.
        
         | thatfunkymunki wrote:
         | if your security people are not doing this already, they are
         | decades behind the curve.
        
       | btheshoe wrote:
       | While this is very cool and I hope it succeeds, I find myself
       | worried that Malloc's dependence on ML makes it extremely
       | vulnerable to adversarial attacks.
       | 
       | Though at the same time, it's probably much harder to change
       | software behavior than it is to modify a bunch of pixels on a
       | photo, so it might be hard to do adversarial attacks with
       | spyware. I wonder if there's research on stuff like this.
        
         | IgorPartola wrote:
         | This reminds me so much of the Angel problem:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_problem
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-28 23:02 UTC)