[HN Gopher] Category Theory Illustrated - Logic
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       Category Theory Illustrated - Logic
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 233 points
       Date   : 2021-09-26 11:57 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (boris-marinov.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (boris-marinov.github.io)
        
       | boris_m wrote:
       | Author here, let me know what you think.
        
         | atsmyles wrote:
         | I'm still learning Cat theory myself (through the Category for
         | Programmers book). I have a couple of questions/observations
         | (that I would love your opinion on).
         | 
         | First observation: True and False are the limit and co-limit of
         | the Bool Category.
         | 
         | Question 1: About ordering, would you say that ordering is a
         | requirement (as in a necessary property) of Cat Theory? It was
         | mentioned in Bartosz Milewski's book but it wasn't as strongly
         | emphasized as in your article.
         | 
         | Question 2: You mention how you can't express "A or not A"
         | using intuistic logic. Since it is expressible in Set Theory,
         | could we not use an Adjoint between the Bool and Set Categories
         | respectively? Specifically Kan extensions?
        
           | boris_m wrote:
           | The bool category is not involved in this. True and False are
           | the _initial and terminal object_ (related to limit and
           | colimit, but not the same thing) of all _logical_ categories
           | as I call them, of which there are many (one for each set of
           | axioms that you might construct).
           | 
           | 1. Ordering is not required for a category to be a category,
           | the necessary requirements are just the ones listed in the
           | beginning of the book. It is just that orders can be seen as
           | categories.
           | 
           | 2. You can express "A or not A" in intuitionistic logic it is
           | just that it is not necessarily true. Also, not sure how
           | would you express that or any logical relation in set theory.
        
         | Bost wrote:
         | I started to read the first chapter of your book, it looks
         | nice. If I may ask you, could you also provide answers to the
         | questions you ask? Somewhat hidden, e.g. behind a button "Show
         | me the answer". I often I think I know the answer, but A) my
         | answer may be wrong or B) I'm right but my reasoning is wrong.
         | (So I'd like to compare my answer with yours.) Thanks.
        
           | boris_m wrote:
           | Thanks for the suggestion
        
         | unknown_apostle wrote:
         | What are good introductory books for logic (classical and
         | intuitionistic)? For category theory? Do you know any similar
         | representation of paraconsistent logic?
        
           | bitdiddle wrote:
           | I think the general program of categorical logic, the work of
           | Lambek and Scott, and J. Bell on topos theory and local set
           | theory really make clear the relationship between category
           | theory and logic, as well as lambda calculus.
           | 
           | A topos is essentially a cartesian closed category with a
           | subject classifier. In Set this is the two element set of 1/0
           | which is a Boolean algebra and thus the internal logic of the
           | category Set is classical.
           | 
           | In general though the subobject classifier is a heyting
           | algebra which expresses the semantics of intuitionistic
           | logic.
           | 
           | There is also a very good, but introductory, book by
           | Goldblatt on Topoi that covers this logical aspect
           | 
           | So in terms of logics the category of Sets is the exception.
           | 
           | By internal logic I mean that for every topos one builds up a
           | theory using it's objects and function between them. An
           | equivalence theorem (see J. Bell) states that a given topos
           | is essentially equal to the category generated by this
           | internal theory.
           | 
           | This program began with Lawvere who noticed that conjunction
           | and implication were really adjoints, the same one as between
           | the product and hom functors in a cartesian closed category.
        
           | boris_m wrote:
           | For category theory, I like Spivak's books.
           | 
           | For logic, it really depends of what you are searching for,
           | for classical logic you can read the the classics, for
           | example Russell and Tarski.
           | 
           | For constructive logic I cannot think of a good introduction
           | (besides mine ;) ), I personally picked it up from books
           | about category theory and computer science.
        
         | crawfordcomeaux wrote:
         | Thank you for all of this and the large type, too!
         | 
         | Would you do uncertainty logic next?
         | 
         | https://arxiv.org/abs/1506.03123
         | https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.01310
        
           | boris_m wrote:
           | In this book I am focused on category theory, but I may write
           | some more about logic in other places.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | There's a typo in this section header:
         | 
         | > Axiom schemas/Rules of inferene
        
           | boris_m wrote:
           | Thanks
        
         | still_grokking wrote:
         | What an amazing write-up!
         | 
         | I've picked up those things peace by peace form Wikipedia to be
         | able to understand the slang in Haskell land. But it was a long
         | and puzzling process. This great summary offered here will
         | hopefully help other people in the future get a coherent
         | picture more quickly. (I hope the SEO is good so people will
         | find it. I'm at least going to recommend it form now on
         | whenever someone asks related questions).
         | 
         | It could be extended with type-theory I guess.
         | 
         | Also I would be interested to know more about the relation of
         | those things described with abstract geometry and/or topology.
         | 
         | But it's fantastic already as it stands!
        
         | smusamashah wrote:
         | Hi, would it using different shapes altogether, instead same
         | circle with different colors, be a better choice? Colors are
         | soft too which makes the contrast between any two circles very
         | low and hard to differentiate.
        
         | tunesmith wrote:
         | I'm curious in intuitionist logic what is the concept for "not
         | proven", like neither true nor false? It's not "not-true"
         | because going by your article it seems that would be
         | "disproven" or bottom. Is it literally "not-false" ?
         | 
         | For a side project of mine, I've started to use "True" to mean
         | proven and "False" to mean not-proven, under the argument that
         | if it were disproven, that's the same as a true proof for a
         | counterargument.
        
           | boris_m wrote:
           | There is no equivalent to "neither true nor false" in
           | classical logic, because in classical logic there are no
           | propositions that are neither true or false.
           | 
           | Actually, there is no "neither true nor false" in
           | intuitionistic logic as well, because there is no True and
           | False in a first place. There is only Proven and not Proven.
           | 
           | Don't think in terms of true and false, think in terms of
           | proofs
        
             | tunesmith wrote:
             | But in intuitionist logic, "not proven" is bottom or
             | disproven. So what is the concept for "neither proven nor
             | disproven"? Is that literally "not disproven"?
        
               | drdeca wrote:
               | "Not proven" isn't the same as implies bottom/Falsum?
               | 
               | As I understand it, one can have a proof, or one can have
               | a disproof (I.e. a machine that takes as input a proof of
               | the statement and produces a proof of Falsum), or one can
               | just, not have either of those things.
               | 
               | You never have a "I don't have a proof" with which to do
               | things with, even if you don't have a proof.
               | 
               | Regarding the truth of a given statement, you can either
               | say that there is a proof of it, or you can stay silent
               | about it (while possibly saying something about another
               | statement, e.g. saying that there is a proof of the
               | negation of the original statement).
        
               | tunesmith wrote:
               | > "Not proven" isn't the same as implies bottom/Falsum?
               | 
               | The article states: !A is A - [?].
               | 
               | But how would you logically express "A is neither proven
               | nor disproven"?
               | 
               | It seems to me that if "A" is proven, and "~A" is
               | disproven, then maybe "~~A" is neither proven nor
               | disproven. Is that right? Since intuitionist logic
               | doesn't have the double negation elimination axiom?
        
       | hidden-spyder wrote:
       | How did _this_ repost survive even though the author had already
       | posted it a few minutes before?
       | 
       | Original: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28660131
        
       | ivalm wrote:
       | > Logic is the science of the possible. As such, it is at the
       | root of all other sciences, all of which are sciences of the
       | actual, i.e. that which really exists
       | 
       | I really don't think this is right. Logic is a discipline of
       | consistent re-writing of expressions. However, there may be (even
       | existing) things that are not expressable to sufficient degree in
       | finite (or even countably infinite) strings, which I think means
       | they are outside of logic. There are definitely "possible" things
       | that are outside of logic (because not expressable).
        
         | deltasixeight wrote:
         | No. You are both wrong.
         | 
         | Logic is one of the fundamental axioms of the universe. We
         | assume logic is true and consistently applies everywhere
         | throughout the universe. This "rewriting expressions" thing is
         | just a symbolic representation of logic. It is not logic in
         | itself. The symbolic representation of logic by writing down
         | "expressions" works because logic is a inherit property of our
         | universe and since you are writing those "expressions" in that
         | same universe, it works.
         | 
         | There is no way to prove or verify logic is consistently real.
         | We just recursively assume logic is real. We observe it to be
         | real and assume that the observation will consistently apply
         | across all time and space.
         | 
         | Another thing that I should mention that is an axiom of our
         | universe is probability. WE have no way of knowing why rolling
         | dice or random variables follow the rules of probability. These
         | are just arbitrary rules and we assume that they're
         | consistently true about our universe. Logic along with
         | probability are two things that we have zero methodology of
         | verifying the veracity of but we just assume these two things
         | are fundamental properties of the universe.
         | 
         | A more elegant way to look at it is to just assume probability
         | is the foundational axiom of our universe. Logic is just a
         | special case of probability where all causal connections are
         | 100%. Of course given inherit unreliability and limited
         | knowledge of all things we never actually see or can verify
         | 100% causality on anything. This effectively limits logic to
         | mathematical and axiomatic games while science is the only
         | available tool for the real world.
         | 
         | Science is a whole different beast. Given the assumptions that
         | probability is real and that logic is real, science is an
         | attempted methodology to verify theorems or statements about
         | the universe using the axioms of probability and logic.
         | 
         | For example Newton guesses that a ball should travel a certain
         | distance according to his made up laws of motion. Using science
         | we perform several experimental observations of moving a ball
         | and statistically correlate to a certain degree that yes the
         | ball does indeed move according to newtons laws of motion. This
         | is what science is. It is making a hypothesis and using
         | statistics to sort of verify it. The term "sort of" is key here
         | because science is limited to the fact that it can never prove
         | anything.
         | 
         | One thing to note here is that EVEN when we assume logic and
         | probability is true, science is unable to prove anything is
         | true. You can make 10,000 observations about newtons law, it
         | proves nothing because at any point in time a new observation
         | can render the entire hypothesis as false. Thus falsification
         | is possible with science [1] but proof is impossible. Proof is
         | the domain of mathematics and logic games and cannot exist in
         | the real world due to limited knowledge.
         | 
         | This is not some pedantic philosophy I'm making up. This is
         | foundational to a true understanding of what science and logic
         | is. To quote Einstein:
         | 
         | "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single
         | experiment can prove me wrong."
         | 
         | There are a lot of intelligent people who don't understand the
         | true depth of the above quote. But if you get it, then you
         | truly understand what science is, and the differences between
         | science and logic. Obviously both the OP and the parent poster
         | don't fully get it... by combining logic and science into one
         | thing and calling it the "science of the possible" it shows
         | that they don't have a clear delineation of the two terms. Most
         | people think of science as some kind of fuzzy "technical study"
         | of a topic. No. This is wrong. There is a clearer definition of
         | science that separates it from logic and mathematics.
         | 
         | [1] Note that technically total falsification is also
         | impossible. Inherit unreliability of observation tools and
         | limited knowledge makes it so that no observation can be 100%
         | reliable. Thus even falsification is technically limited to the
         | domain of logic and mathematical games.
        
           | ivalm wrote:
           | > Logic is one of the fundamental axioms of the universe
           | 
           | This definitely a very opinionated view on what is logic.
           | There is no reason to embed anything in universe/anything
           | else. If you remove expressability, I'm not sure what
           | properties remain. At the same time you can have rules
           | outside of anything physical (in a sense of denoting
           | something that subsists). Consistency of re-writing rules (in
           | a sense that one can always write a propositional string that
           | cannot be reduced to true or false), is an entirely separate
           | beast.
           | 
           | > Logic is just a special case of probability
           | 
           | This is factually false. Probability is embeddable into
           | predicate logic, but predicate logic is not embeddable into
           | (Bayesian) probability. This is actually an open problem (how
           | to define a probability theory that is equivalent to
           | predicate logic).
           | 
           | > Science is a whole different beast
           | 
           | On this I do agree, I wouldn't call logic a "science."
        
             | systemvoltage wrote:
             | > This definitely a very opinionated view on what is logic.
             | 
             | It is by definition, not opinion.
        
           | Koshkin wrote:
           | > _Logic is one of the fundamental axioms of the universe._
           | 
           | Is it the classical logic of the quantum logic you are
           | talking about?
        
             | deltasixeight wrote:
             | Hard to say which came first. Probability can be defined in
             | terms of axioms and classical logic just read any
             | probability book. Classical logic can also be defined in
             | terms of probability by setting all causal relations to be
             | 100% (See bayes theorem).
             | 
             | I'm making a vague sweeping statement here that eventually
             | gets a bit more cleared up later in my writeup.
        
       | roenxi wrote:
       | > Logic is the science of the possible. As such, it is at the
       | root of all other sciences, all of which are sciences of the
       | actual, i.e. that which really exists.
       | 
       | Not the focus of the article, but a good view of logic is that it
       | is the art of consistency. A powerful, single-purpose tool to
       | tell its user if they hold mutually inconsistent beliefs. I can
       | believe that the sky is blue, the sky is green and that the sky
       | is exactly one colour - but if I use logic I can detect that
       | something in my worldview is woefully broken.
        
         | appleflaxen wrote:
         | Great formulation.
         | 
         | One could also say that logic is the study of what is not
         | disproven.
        
         | boris_m wrote:
         | Also a good formulation. It's amazing how little has been
         | written on the subject (of what logic is.)
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | > It's amazing how little has been written on the subject (of
           | what logic is.)
           | 
           | I'm not sure that's the case. Just searching "philosophy of
           | logic" yields oodles of resources. It's an entire field of
           | study.
        
             | boris_m wrote:
             | I meant at a higher lever.
        
               | bmitc wrote:
               | I'm not really sure what you mean by higher level, but
               | I'm still not sure that's the case if one is assuming you
               | mean works that are more introductory in nature.
               | 
               | For example, from the introduction in the first chapter,
               | titled "Consistency", in Wilfred Hodge's _Logic_ :
               | 
               | > Logic can be defined as the study of consistent sets of
               | beliefs; this will be our starting-point. Some people
               | prefer to define logic as the study of valid arguments.
               | Between them and us there is no real disagreement, as
               | section 11 will show. But consistency makes an easier
               | beginning.
               | 
               | > Logic is about consistency - but not about all types of
               | consistency. ...
               | 
               | > The type of consistency which concerns logicians is not
               | loyalty or justice or sincerity; it is compatibility of
               | beliefs. A set of beliefs is consistent if the beliefs
               | are compatible with each other. To give a slightly more
               | precise definition, which will guide us through the rest
               | of this book: a set of beliefs is called consistent if
               | these beliefs could all be true together in some possible
               | situation. The set of beliefs is called inconsistent if
               | there is no possible situation in which all the beliefs
               | are true.
               | 
               | Note that this is identical to the parent comment, and
               | this book is originally from the 1970s.
        
               | boris_m wrote:
               | By higher level, I mean big picture. Not necessarily
               | introductory, but ones that don't employ logical concepts
               | such as "proof", "formal" etc, because you cannot define
               | a field of study using concepts from that field. This
               | example is good, but not sure what are you trying to say
               | by posting it (I didn't say that noone ever wrote
               | anything on what logic is.)
        
               | drdeca wrote:
               | > because you cannot define a field of study using
               | concepts from that field.
               | 
               | Why not?
        
               | boris_m wrote:
               | Because the definition would be circular.
        
               | drdeca wrote:
               | Does a field of study have to be defined in order for the
               | concepts in it to be defined? I don't see why.
               | 
               | Can't you define concepts x,y,z, and then define the
               | field of study as being "about x,y,z and the things
               | related to them"?
               | 
               | I'm guessing you mean something different by "defining a
               | field of study" (different from my default/initial
               | interpretation of the phrase I mean), but I'm not sure
               | what else you mean by it.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | guerrilla wrote:
               | Very much has been written at a higher level. There are
               | thousands of advanceds books and dozens of specialized
               | journals.
        
           | pfortuny wrote:
           | Well, Aristotle's studies on logic are called the "organon"
           | (meaning "tool") exactly because of that.
        
           | travisgriggs wrote:
           | It is the set of all things not found under the category of
           | illogical.
        
         | Reflecticon wrote:
         | How would you do that?
        
         | IncRnd wrote:
         | The assumption in what you wrote is that logic is Boolean,
         | which is not always the case. There are other logics.
        
           | rini17 wrote:
           | Other logics need to have their own consistency rules too.
        
       | Torwald wrote:
       | > As such, it is at the root of all other sciences, all of which
       | are sciences of the actual, i.e. that which really exists.
       | 
       | I once read somewhere that theology is the science of the
       | unknowable. So for how much theology is a science then is
       | discussed within theology itself ie one cannot know how much of
       | the unknowable is existing in an ontological sense.
        
         | Koshkin wrote:
         | I once read that philosophy and theology are similar to each
         | other, in that "philosophy is seeking answers to questions that
         | do not have answers; theology studies that which does not
         | exist."
         | 
         | (Incidentally, "science of the unknowable" seems like an
         | oxymoron, because "science" means "knowledge"...)
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | In my personal opinion, philosophy is about understanding
           | what the questions even are and creating the tools needed for
           | this understanding. So philosophy seeks to codify the
           | questions and provide frameworks for answers to be framed in.
           | 
           | All the sciences have questions that do not have answers.
           | 
           | A good book that actually knows what it is talking about is
           | _The Logic of Information_.
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/Logic-Information-Theory-
           | Philosophy-C...
        
       | echopurity wrote:
       | The epistemology in that logic section is terrible enough for HN
       | to love this article.
        
       | jerome-jh wrote:
       | The definition of logic I retain comes from "Logique
       | mathematique" from Rene Cori and Daniel Lascar, a pretty good
       | book I have yet to finish ;)
       | 
       | Logic models the mathematical reasoning itself, like vector
       | spaces model our world and differential equations model most of
       | physics. At no point however we should confuse the model with the
       | studied object. As such logic is a field of mathematics and not
       | mathematics itself. The best illustration of this is that
       | theorems in the field of logic use results from e.g. set theory.
       | 
       | Of course using a formal logic to prove theorems is valid. Still
       | the formal logic has to be studied with "intuitive" mathematics.
       | The book uses the metaphor of spiraling downstairs to illustrate
       | this.
        
       | amw-zero wrote:
       | Honestly, the entire part of the post before getting to
       | categories is what I think is most useful for the broadest range
       | of people. We often look at "logic" and "mathematics" as one
       | thing, and even more than that, we look at them as absolutes - if
       | something is mathematically proven, it is certainly a fact, no?
       | 
       | Well, it turns out even here there are still shades of gray, and
       | the difference between classical and intuitionistic logic is the
       | perfect example. Not everyone even agrees on the foundation of
       | what logic and math are. And, each has their own benefits and
       | strengths (intuitionistic logic tends to go hand in hand with
       | type theory as the basis for theorem provers / proof assistants
       | for mostly practical reasons).
       | 
       | Classical logic has always made the most sense to me, because
       | accepting the law of excluded middle leads to a neater world of
       | arguments to me. If you can't prove something, it is treated as
       | false. Might be harsh, but that harshness yields simplicity.
       | 
       | I have come to at least understand the intuitionistic perspective
       | though, because of how prevalent it is in the verification space
       | - I have been super into F* recently (https://www.fstar-
       | lang.org/), and this comes from a line of logics and programming
       | languages that owe their life to intuitionistic logic. I like
       | Andrej Bauer's position of being a "mathematical relavist," where
       | he says "we cannot ignore the many worlds of mathematics"
       | (http://math.andrej.com/2012/10/03/am-i-a-constructive-
       | mathem...).
       | 
       | Math and logic are vast spaces with different systems and
       | perspectives, and rather than treat one as universal truth, it is
       | practically more beneficial to be familiar with the different
       | systems and their perspectives, and to be able to switch between
       | them when practical.
        
         | drdeca wrote:
         | > If you can't prove something, it is treated as false.
         | 
         | Maybe I'm being excessively literal in interpreting the
         | phrasing here, but that doesn't seem like how I would describe
         | classical logic? There are plenty of cases where neither a
         | thing nor its negation can be shown in some system which is
         | based on classical logic (I'm sure you are well aware of this
         | fact, so I'm probably just misinterpreting you by being too
         | literal).
         | 
         | But yes, I also share the sentiment that, for ordinary/day-to-
         | day reasoning, classical logic is substantially more intuitive
         | than intuitionistic logic, and makes things simpler.
         | 
         | Can I think of a precise way to say the thing that I imagine
         | you must have meant by that?
         | 
         | In both classical logic and intuitionistic logic, if by
         | assuming something you can derive False, then you can prove the
         | negation of the thing. So that's not the distinguishing thing.
         | If by assuming the falsehood of something you can derive False,
         | in classical logic you can use that as a proof of the thing.
         | (double negation elimination), while in intuitionistic logic
         | you only get the double negation. This, I think at least mostly
         | describes the difference (though not all the like, implications
         | of it), but I'm not sure how to make it into something similar
         | to "If you can't prove something, it is treated as false."
         | 
         | Though, that statement does remind me of the idea of a/the
         | Constructible universe in set theory..
        
         | pphysch wrote:
         | > Classical logic has always made the most sense to me, because
         | accepting the law of excluded middle leads to a neater world of
         | arguments to me.
         | 
         | What use is a neat argument if it is divorced from reality?
         | 
         | LoEM tricks us into viewing ontologies as static, leading to
         | subtle but drastic errors in thinking.
         | 
         | LoEM/classical logic should always be employed as a conscious
         | assumption, with awareness of its drawbacks. Leave room for
         | dialectical reasoning as well.
        
       | antonzabirko wrote:
       | > Logic is the science of the possible. As such, it is at the
       | root of all other sciences, all of which are sciences of the
       | actual, i.e. that which really exists.
       | 
       | Logic describes our universe well but even here it starts falling
       | apart pretty fast. The idea of axiomatic systems as we know them
       | is flawed. Mainly due to Godel's and partly from what we know of
       | the psyche.
        
         | amw-zero wrote:
         | Godel's incompleteness theorem is very similar to the halting
         | problem, in that they are both really profound results, but
         | they have almost no bearing on the practical benefits of logic
         | / computation.
         | 
         | In the halting problem example, how often do you create
         | infinite loops as a programmer? Even in the software
         | verification space, proving termination of an algorithm is
         | fairly simple. So, the halting problem doesn't really affect us
         | in daily programming.
         | 
         | The same with the incompleteness theorem. The fact that we
         | can't say _every single thing possible_ (completeness) has no
         | bearing on our ability to say _an innumerable amount of very
         | practical things._
         | 
         | The amount of things that formal logic can express is so vast
         | and useful that, to call it "flawed" is a pretty big
         | misunderstanding on the incompleteness theorem.
        
           | guerby wrote:
           | The halting problem is intractable only with infinite memory
           | (infinite tape for turing machines).
           | 
           | Our current computers all have finite memory and so a trivial
           | algorithm can tell if a real program on a real computer will
           | halt (terminate) or not.
           | 
           | Of course the trivial algorithm has huge (but finite) memory
           | requirement :)
        
         | boris_m wrote:
         | Well, it has it's limits, but wouldn't call it "flawed".
         | 
         | Regarding the psyche part, I have actually written an article
         | about that which might change your opinion https://boris-
         | marinov.github.io/logic-thought/
        
         | vcxy wrote:
         | The incompleteness theorems don't imply a flaw. It's just a
         | property of sufficiently rich systems.
        
       | nafizh wrote:
       | Category theory for programmers by Bartosz Milewski [0] is
       | another great resource geared more towards how programmers can
       | leverage it in their work.
       | 
       | 0. https://bartoszmilewski.com/2014/10/28/category-theory-
       | for-p...
        
         | mushishi wrote:
         | Milewski is almost my sole resource for category theory so far.
         | I watched his lectures on youtube, and ordered that book as
         | printed from here: https://www.blurb.com/b/9621951-category-
         | theory-for-programm...
        
       | jasperry wrote:
       | Question about a claim in the article: "If classical logic is
       | based on set theory, intuitionistic logic is based on category
       | theory and its related theories."
       | 
       | I'm no expert, but as I understood it, category theory can be
       | used to construct a semantics for certain constructive logics,
       | such as type theory, but to claim that intuitionistic logic is
       | "based on" category theory seems off. A logic can exist all by
       | itself, regardless of which theory is used to give semantics for
       | it. Right?
        
         | Koshkin wrote:
         | Well, "classical logic is based on set theory" seems off too...
         | 
         | In fact, a theory can always be formulated using a minimum
         | number of axioms, so none requires some other theory as its
         | base. For example, the system of real numbers can be built
         | starting from the natural numbers, but what this achieves is,
         | this just gives a "proof of existence" of the reals, i.e of
         | consistency of the definition of the reals as a complete
         | ordered field.
        
         | foldr wrote:
         | Yes, this seems completely off to me too. It's perhaps worth
         | noting in this connection that intuitionistic logics predate
         | anything that could reasonably be called "category theory".
        
         | Ericson2314 wrote:
         | Orthodox Set theory is a "standard library" for classical
         | logic.
         | 
         | It just so happens that the people who like one tend to like
         | the other, and so explorations of the semantics of classical
         | logic (mostly, model theory) use Set theory.
         | 
         | The Tarski-style algebrization of logic which is "logics as
         | orders" stuff from this article is an alternative to that one
         | can do without category theory. Heyting algebra vs boolean
         | algebra is sufficient to distinguish classical and
         | intuitionistic logic.
         | 
         | Category theory is this not necessary for intuitionism, but is
         | nicer, because the point is to _compute_ things. Otherwise we
         | just speak abstractly of what can be computed, which is like a
         | pessimist compromise between realism and idealism.
         | 
         | So
         | 
         | Logic : order :: type theory : category
         | 
         | Roughly, and the right side makes intuitionism a lot more
         | exciting and applicable.
        
         | boris_m wrote:
         | Author here. Yes. Texts says " _If_ classical logic is based on
         | set theory ", that is I am comparing the relations to set
         | theory and category theory to that between classical logic and
         | intuitionistic logic. I will try to fix the ambiguity.
        
           | boris_m wrote:
           | Corrected the sentence:
           | 
           | "If we view classical logic as based on set theory, then
           | intuitionistic logic would be based on category theory and
           | its related theories."
           | 
           | And regarding the fact that CT is not "needed" for algebraic
           | logic what I say is "category theory _and its related
           | theories_. " where I consider orders related to categories.
        
       | gus_massa wrote:
       | What software are you using for the graphics? Is it an
       | specialized program or package, or just a generic graphic program
       | like Inkscape?
        
         | boris_m wrote:
         | Inkscape.
        
       | Koshkin wrote:
       | Some believe that the two-valued logic is not sufficient and that
       | you need the whole range of values from 0 to 1.
       | 
       | https://bayes.wustl.edu/etj/prob/book.pdf
        
         | mathgenius wrote:
         | Bart Jacobs is working on a book that uses the language of
         | category theory to develop probability theory:
         | 
         | https://www.cs.ru.nl/B.Jacobs/PAPERS/ProbabilisticReasoning....
        
         | crawfordcomeaux wrote:
         | And some believe we need uncertainty to be accounted for, too!
         | 
         | https://arxiv.org/abs/1506.03123
         | https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.01310
        
       | Koshkin wrote:
       | > _Illustrated_
       | 
       | Curiously, Category Theory appears to be the most "illustrated"
       | mathematical theory by its very nature (because of the wide use
       | of diagrams in any text on it) and, at the same time, the most
       | misunderstood one (or, often, not understood at all) - because
       | its _conceptual_ content and the patterns it considers are so
       | deep that no amount of illustration could convey that depth, to
       | the point that even drawing diagrams, however complex, is a skill
       | comparable to being able to write numbers on a piece of paper -
       | which is just as far from what we think what the understanding of
       | the subject is.
        
         | fn-mote wrote:
         | > conceptual content and the patterns it considers are so deep
         | that no amount of illustration could convey that depth
         | 
         | My experience is different - for me category theory abstracts /
         | generalizes / encodes ideas that we understand well in a
         | particular setting. Intuition comes from particular examples
         | and is then "categorified" to make more general arguments. Of
         | course some times it goes the other way ("hey you really need
         | to do X because the category you are working with doesn't have
         | property Y").
         | 
         | And sometimes the imported understanding is not quite accurate,
         | like always there are issues. I don't think that impacts the
         | main line of this argument, though it may be an example of the
         | depth that category theory brings.
        
         | pfortuny wrote:
         | The moment limits appear, illustrations stop.
         | 
         | Not to speak about "derived" concepts...
        
           | fn-mote wrote:
           | I guess you are talking about limits like in analysis, but
           | even then I don't think this is really true. I'm not really
           | sure if you intend to distinguish between limits and
           | colimits; I'll assume not, but I would certainly agree that
           | infinite (inverse) limits are harder to understand with
           | diagrams.
           | 
           | On a simple level, limits in category theory don't need to
           | involve infinite things at all, you can take the limit over a
           | small category like (x --> x <-- x).
           | 
           | With regard to derived concepts, one can draw pictures of
           | "projective resolutions" or draw level by level pictures of
           | the nerve of the category you want to work with. So I think
           | you can in fact make useful pictures even in this case.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | Plane geometry, arguably the OG mathematical theory, would
         | probably take issue with who gets to be called 'most
         | illustrated'.
        
       | smusamashah wrote:
       | These should have been shapes instead of all circles. Colors are
       | soft too and it's hard to see the difference.
        
         | mathgenius wrote:
         | Yeah, I don't see how the colours are helping. It does make it
         | look friendly and inviting, but switching back and forth
         | between coloured balls and the usual symbolic mathematics
         | (algebra notation) is jarring and confusing to me. Using
         | colours instead of letters is a superficial trick and basically
         | a step backwards. It's like those algebra memes where they use
         | fruit instead of x, y, z etc. What's the point? But anyway I
         | don't want to sound too dismissive because the mathematics
         | literature definitely needs more of this kind of creativity!
        
       | unknown_apostle wrote:
       | At first sight, this looks like an absolutely great resource for
       | a friendly introduction to this stuff. Thanks HN (and author).
        
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