[HN Gopher] Huawei CFO Wanzhou Meng Admits to Misleading Global ...
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       Huawei CFO Wanzhou Meng Admits to Misleading Global Financial
       Institution
        
       Author : throwaway4good
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2021-09-25 02:26 UTC (20 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.justice.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.justice.gov)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | upofadown wrote:
       | The coerced confession will last right up to the point that the
       | person in question is clear of US airspace.
        
         | JudasGoat wrote:
         | Speaking of "coerced confessions", the 2 Michaels were
         | immediately released.
        
         | _hilro wrote:
         | The person isn't in US airspace. They're being held in Canada
         | and US had an ongoing extradition request with Canada. All
         | detailed in TFA.
        
           | upofadown wrote:
           | It's pretty unlikely that Canada will fall for this sort of
           | thing the second time. So once they are clear of US airspace
           | they are pretty safe, but not entirely safe of course...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | whoevercares wrote:
       | Meng is returning home. 1:0
        
       | roenxi wrote:
       | The US has no business at all regulating how a Chinese company
       | trades with an Iranian company or attempting to enforce their
       | demands through having CFOs snatched in foreign countries.
        
         | oriettaxx wrote:
         | the sanctions against Iran
         | 
         | "The warrant was based on allegations that Wanzhou had cleared
         | money that was claimed to be for Huawei, but was actually for
         | Skycom,[34] an entity claimed to be entirely controlled by
         | Huawei, which was said to be dealing with Iran, contrary to
         | sanctions. According to the defence lawyer, the bank involved
         | in the dealings was HSBC. "
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meng_Wanzhou#Career
        
         | _hilro wrote:
         | Did you even read the article or did you just knee-jerk type
         | your insightful thoughts:
         | 
         | > In December 2012 and January 2013, various news
         | organizations, including Reuters, reported that Skycom offered
         | to sell "embargoed" equipment from a U.S. computer equipment
         | manufacturer in Iran in potential violation of U.S. export
         | controls law, and that Huawei had close ties with Skycom
         | 
         | And the outcome was pretty muted with a Deferred Prosecution
         | Agreement (i.e. a nothing happens agreement):
         | 
         | > Under the terms of the DPA, Meng has agreed to the accuracy
         | of a four-page statement of facts that details the knowingly
         | false statements she made to Financial Institution 1. Meng also
         | has agreed not to commit other federal, state or local crimes.
         | If Meng breaches the agreement, she will be subject to
         | prosecution of all the charges against her in the third
         | superseding indictment filed in this case
         | 
         | edit: to make it more obvious, it wasn't just close ties,
         | Huawei wholly owned Skycom via a subsidary and then tried to
         | hide that ownership by "selling" it's shares to another company
         | (which also was a Huawei subsidary)
        
           | sudosysgen wrote:
           | From the Guardian:
           | 
           | >Her lawyers argued that internal HSBC emails and memos
           | showed she had been upfront with senior HSBC staff about
           | Huawei's relationship with the subsidiary accused of
           | sanctions-busting, Skycom. Indeed, at a hearing in August,
           | the judge in the case said that the case against Meng seemed
           | very unusual. No one lost money, the allegations were several
           | years old, and the intended victim, a global bank, knew the
           | truth even as it was allegedly being lied to. Heather Holmes,
           | associate chief justice, asked: "Isn't it unusual that one
           | will see a fraud case with no actual harm many years later?
           | And one in which the alleged victim, a large institution,
           | appears to have had numerous people within the institution
           | who had all the facts that are now said to be
           | misrepresented?"
           | 
           | I don't really care about the rest. Selling US computers to
           | Iran is not illegal where Skycom was operating. It's a
           | travesty that the US gets to prevent people from selling
           | things to Iran even if they are operating outside of the US.
           | 
           | Even if Skycom was wholly owned by Huawei, the US should not
           | get to impose their power on actions that happen solely
           | outside of US territory.
           | 
           | But beyond that, the entire case is clearly a political ploy
           | by the Trump and the US administration following to extract
           | concessions from China. Using extraterritorial "offences" to
           | prosecute someone for purely political reasons stretches the
           | credibility of the US legal system past it's breaking point,
           | and morality is not even a question anymore.
           | 
           | To be blunt, nothing of what you said even contradicts who
           | you reply to. It amounts to taking the US government at their
           | full word not only in facts but in spirit too.
        
             | adriancr wrote:
             | > It's a travesty that the US gets to prevent people from
             | selling things to Iran even if they are operating outside
             | of the US
             | 
             | No its not while Iran has a nuclear weapons program and is
             | sanctioned for it.
             | 
             | > Even if Skycom was wholly owned by Huawei, the US should
             | not get to impose their power on actions that happen solely
             | outside of US territory.
             | 
             | US imposed sanctions, company owned by huawei broke them,
             | what should happen here?
             | 
             | > Using extraterritorial "offences" to prosecute someone
             | for purely political reasons
             | 
             | They broke embargo and tried to hide it, what do you
             | expect... To just let them continue to aid Iran?
        
               | sudosysgen wrote:
               | >No its not while Iran has a nuclear weapons program and
               | is sanctioned for it.
               | 
               | Only the US government still believes this. Which happens
               | to have interests strongly opposing Iran's.
               | 
               | >US imposed sanctions, company owned by huawei broke
               | them, what should happen here?
               | 
               | You can get a judgement against the company or even
               | Huawei if you figure out a legal strategy. Why would you
               | go after an employee on false pretenses? Come on, we both
               | know what's happening there.
               | 
               | > They broke embargo and tried to hide it, what do you
               | expect... To just let them continue to aid Iran?
               | 
               | Is your argument really that people in Iran shouldn't be
               | allowed to have computers, and that it's fine to lie and
               | imprison people for things they did well outside of your
               | jurisdiction over false pretenses for it?
               | 
               | Because right now your argument is basically that the US
               | should be allowed to make law that is valid worldwide and
               | to imprison anyone in the world for it.
               | 
               | Besides, you totally ignored the entire issue with Trump
               | indicating that he would be willing to release her in
               | exchange for concessions. Keep in mind he's the guy under
               | who she was arrested.
        
               | adriancr wrote:
               | > Only the US government still believes this. Which
               | happens to have interests strongly opposing Iran's.
               | 
               | Umm... since 2005, EU, UN, and U.S. sanctions have
               | targeted Iran for violating treaties under which it
               | promised not to pursue nuclear weapons.
               | 
               | The centrifuges destroyed by Stuxnet were not for nuclear
               | weapons?, how about all the assassinated nuclear
               | scientists?, they're working on peaceful nuclear?
               | 
               | > You can get a judgement against the company or even
               | Huawei if you figure out a legal strategy. Why would you
               | go after an employee on false pretenses? Come on, we both
               | know what's happening there.
               | 
               | Legal strategy is she is wanted for trial in the United
               | States, she is fighting extradition instead of going to
               | face trial. It is a valid strategy.
               | 
               | > Is your argument really that people in Iran shouldn't
               | be allowed to have computers
               | 
               | They are under embargo for nuclear weapons program. I
               | really don't want them to have nuclear weapons either. If
               | this means the iranian people don't have computers they
               | only have their leaders and themselves to blame. Changing
               | them would solve the issue.
               | 
               | > Besides, you totally ignored the entire issue with
               | Trump indicating that he would be willing to release her
               | in exchange for concessions. Keep in mind he's the guy
               | under who she was arrested.
               | 
               | Trump said a lot of worse things if you take them at face
               | value, he's not in office anymore, she on the other hand
               | is still wanted for extradition.
               | 
               | The lesson here is don't break another country's laws and
               | then expect to visit it or its allies without answering
               | to a court of law.
        
         | dzonga wrote:
         | if you use US dollars, then it's an implicit agreement to us
         | laws. hence if you break US laws, the US will persecute you.
         | China, Russia etc will likely be transacting in less US dollars
         | in the future. So they don't run foul of USA sanctions
        
           | sschueller wrote:
           | That's why the rest of the world needs to stop using the
           | dollar when not dealing with the US.
        
       | Leary wrote:
       | Shame on the US for misusing the law to achieve its geopolitical
       | objective of handicapping Huawei. Funny how HSBC, the bank that
       | Meng supposedly defrauded, never said they were misled.
        
         | lancesells wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei#Controversies
        
           | sudosysgen wrote:
           | If Huawei is really so clearly in the wrong, why not go after
           | them for things they did that actually matter instead of
           | victimless actions that the "victim" was absolutely OK with
           | and that happened between three non-US entities outside of
           | the US?
        
             | adriancr wrote:
             | Huawei is on a trade blacklist because of breaking Iran
             | sanctions in this case...
        
         | dangerbird2 wrote:
         | More shame on China for retaliating by arbitrarily detaining
         | two Canadian citizens with no relation to the case, holding
         | them as hostages in all but name, and subjecting them to
         | torture while Meng had to endure a cushy house arrest in her
         | mansion.
         | 
         | https://globalnews.ca/news/8220178/meng-wanzhou-huawei-china...
        
           | beaunative wrote:
           | Torture is a strong word. You better back it up, there is no
           | logical reason for the Chinese government to `torture` them.
        
             | commoner wrote:
             | > Meng is right now enjoying the freedom of Vancouver's
             | lovely streets and the luxury of her own $15 million
             | mansion there through privilege of bail in a free and open
             | democratic society under the rule of law. The two Michaels,
             | by painful contrast, suffer conditions equal to torture in
             | the lawless Chinese gulag.
             | 
             | > Pre-trial detention in China is used as a weapon of
             | duress which, in its aggregate, adds up to torture. The
             | accused are held in harsh conditions in a "detention
             | center" designed to break resistance and crush the human
             | spirit in order to extort a confession. As a result, such
             | self-incriminating confessions, when they happen, are
             | false. The following description of those detention
             | conditions comes from my own experiences during 23 months
             | in captivity, in addition to listening to and reading about
             | other prisoners' experiences, including conversations with
             | prisoners released in 2019.
             | 
             | Full description: https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/the-
             | cruel-fate-of-michael-ko...
        
         | LatteLazy wrote:
         | See also, the Natwest three.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NatWest_Three
         | 
         | Being foreign puts a pretty big taeget on your back in the eyes
         | of US law enforcement agencies.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-25 23:02 UTC)