[HN Gopher] iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania
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       iPhone 13 Pro camera review: Tanzania
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 166 points
       Date   : 2021-09-24 14:18 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (austinmann.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (austinmann.com)
        
       | throwaway-jim wrote:
       | Even though I watched it in 4k the image was not 4k sharp, and
       | random areas of the screen would get blurry/pixelated. Zoomed in
       | shots look very bland. I own and iphone and I love the camera
       | very much but this just convinced me that even the best phone
       | cameras are nowhere close to a dedicated camera.
        
         | onepointsixC wrote:
         | I really wouldn't make such conclusions without seeing the
         | actual original file. To me this looks like it was crushed by
         | the encoding bitrate.
        
       | armchairhacker wrote:
       | My phone camera is amazing. I can take photos of my town's basic
       | foliage on my basic phone which looks like a professional stock
       | photo. The resolution, saturation, sharpness, color correction
       | would've seemed unbelievable 10 years ago.
       | 
       | I have an iPhone 8. I don't see much improvement in these iPhone
       | 13 photos.
        
       | skylanh wrote:
       | I would personally use something like DxoMark's tests as a
       | starting point to evaluate cameras and lenses. EDIT: and such
       | things as the camera on a smartphone.
       | 
       | That sets the starting point, and then I can compare as I go
       | along.
       | 
       | https://www.dxomark.com/rankings/#smartphones-mobile
        
       | Arubis wrote:
       | The best camera is the one you have with you.
        
         | nbzso wrote:
         | Dependig totaly on use case. In my street photograpy days my
         | best pictures came from two cameras: Rollei 35 (with zone
         | focusing) and Leica M3.
         | 
         | But when you stop down and focus on composition and best
         | possible result in camera, you need a diferent tools.
         | 
         | For the general public smartphones are ideal to "capture" the
         | moment.
         | 
         | But quality cannot be accomplished without a biger than
         | smartphone lens. Even entry level Sony RX has a Zeiss in it.
         | 
         | Comparing smartphone computational photography to professional
         | photography is simply a marketing trick. Full frame sensor and
         | adequate lens will give you always more data to push in post.
         | 
         | Smartphones have stagnated as innovation, so manufacturers are
         | seeking differentiation and buyers motivation trough "better
         | pictures".
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | > Smartphones have stagnated
           | 
           | The big camera companies have as well. How much better is
           | Canon's or Sony's best camera this year than a year or two
           | ago? They don't have the same constraints that a phone
           | company has and it seems like there's not a lot of year-over-
           | year advancement.
        
           | latexr wrote:
           | > Dependig totaly on use case.
           | 
           | Photographing an interesting composition with a camera of
           | mediocre image quality is superior to not snapping a picture
           | at all because you left the expensive DSLR at home.
           | 
           | "The best camera is the one you have with you"[1] because the
           | one you don't have with you can't take the picture.
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.azquotes.com/quote/873224
        
             | nbzso wrote:
             | I can counter quote: https://theonlinephotographer.typepad.
             | com/the_online_photogr...
        
               | yoz-y wrote:
               | That article is indeed a counter quote but provides a
               | really bad counter argument. Most people won't leave
               | their preferred camera at home because they are testing
               | gear or have their only camera clogged with color film.
        
               | nbzso wrote:
               | Let me give you another example.
               | 
               | The professional will create meaningful photography with
               | lowest quality tools available. The amateur on other
               | hand, will produce meaningless pictures even with most
               | expensive and advanced camera or some smartphone labeled
               | "Pro".
               | 
               | For usual memorabilia use cases normal people will be
               | fine with a smartphone from 2014.
               | 
               | But if you are professional, who has knowledge and desire
               | to capture a moment with enough quality, you will never
               | leave your house without a camera. And this camera never
               | will be an iPhone or any other smartphone. This use case
               | will be the extreme exception from the rule.
               | 
               | If we are in the digital realm of photography, here are
               | some cameras that will be considered adequate:
               | 
               | * Fujifilm X100V
               | 
               | * Ricoh GR III
               | 
               | * Sony RX100 VII
               | 
               | With this you can produce award-wining work, with iPhone
               | you will produce mainly self-esteem or some form of
               | social validation.
        
           | drclau wrote:
           | > Smartphones have stagnated as innovation, so manufacturers
           | are seeking differentiation and buyers motivation trough
           | "better pictures".
           | 
           | And I dare say, some are succeeding in delivering "better
           | pictures" (quotes yours). I have compared pics from iPhone 6s
           | and iPhone 12 Pro taken in the same conditions, and I can
           | tell you the improvements are very real.
        
             | nbzso wrote:
             | I am with you. But the idea of "pro" is to market towards
             | semi pros or amateur photographers, and this crowd has gear
             | and tools to produce better quality.
             | 
             | The smartphones cameras in general are good enough for
             | general public and not so many of this audience will see
             | the differences, especially when the most of the UX is to
             | apply filters and post on Instagram, Facebook or other
             | social channels which compress the heck out of the photos
             | anyway.
        
         | drclau wrote:
         | ... Why not own the best then? iPhone 13 Pro!
         | 
         | Just kidding, but your comment did sound a bit like an ad.
         | Could hear this in my head in Tim Cook's voice :D
        
         | dingaling wrote:
         | > The best camera is the one you have with you.
         | 
         | But sometimes that one isn't good enough
        
         | Multiplayer wrote:
         | Under-appreciated comment. The reduction of friction always
         | wins in consumer services.
         | 
         | Interesting stat - the estimate is that this year 1.4 trillion
         | photos will be taken.
         | 
         | In 2012 it was estimated that 3.4 trillion pictures had been
         | taken in the previous 174 years.
         | 
         | https://fstoppers.com/other/stats-how-many-photos-have-ever-...
         | 
         | https://fstoppers.com/other/stats-how-many-photos-have-ever-...
        
           | formerly_proven wrote:
           | > Under-appreciated comment.
           | 
           | I don't know, seems like almost all top-level comments are
           | this comment. It's also the single most common comment on
           | this topic, ever.
        
       | gambiting wrote:
       | It's just that.....every time a new iphone comes out, there is a
       | blog post exactly like this, showing some absolutely truly
       | stunning photos taken with the phone. Like, world class. And then
       | a new phone comes out next year and everything before it is
       | supposedly garbage. I'm just not excited by the hype train
       | anymore, no matter what you buy most pics taken in "normal"
       | conditions just look like crap anyway.
        
         | coolspot wrote:
         | Yep. The first one was iPhone 4 vs Canon 7D video[1] that
         | convinced me to replace my DSLR with an iPhone.
         | 
         | Only later I realized that it was pure manipulation.
         | 
         | [1] - https://youtu.be/H7bStLePvKo
         | 
         | There are others like that:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceblrDsG-aw
         | https://www.cnet.com/news/1080p-shootout-iphone-4s-vs-canon-...
        
       | have_faith wrote:
       | There's a lot of obvious flaws when looking at the images on a
       | good monitor but that's part of the point I guess the images
       | generally look amazing on a phone or when shared to instagram and
       | displayed at a smaller size. Also suprised how much obvious
       | compression artifacts there are on the hi res vimeo embed, very
       | muddy and I imagine doesn't do the original footage justice.
        
       | peanut_worm wrote:
       | I take pictures of birds and the iPhone camera is pretty much
       | useless for it, but so is every camera without a super telephoto
       | lens. I wish there was some kind of retractable zoom lens as an
       | addon or something for the iPhone camera.
        
         | Tagbert wrote:
         | Moment offers a range of add-on lenses for iPhones. They have a
         | 2x lens that can be mounted on the iPhone's 2x for a total 4x.
         | Not sure if that gets into the range you are looking for.
         | Moment has a pretty good reputation for quality. There might be
         | some other longer lenses out there by other manufacturers.
        
         | Synaesthesia wrote:
         | With new Samsungs (S21 ultra) and other Chinese phones like
         | Xiaomi and Huawei you get quite a lot of optical zoom, like 10x
         | 
         | The new iPhone pro has a fairly decent 3x (71mm equivalent)
        
           | formerly_proven wrote:
           | > The new iPhone pro has a fairly decent 3x (71mm equivalent)
           | 
           | For birds (depends on the kind of bird) you're looking at the
           | 300-800 mm supertele range.
        
       | haddr wrote:
       | Is there any "penalty" when using Live Photo mode as compared to
       | normal mode?
        
         | Synaesthesia wrote:
         | Not really because it still "develops" the main photo properly
         | while taking a short video. It will use a shorter exposure time
         | so you might wanna drop it for low light shots.
        
           | yunohn wrote:
           | > It will use a shorter exposure time so you might wanna drop
           | it for low light shots.
           | 
           | Generally, the native camera app will drop into Night mode
           | and automatically disable the Live mode.
        
       | tw04 wrote:
       | Is it just me or does it feel a little off-putting that he
       | doesn't bother to post the pre-edited photos? What the picture
       | looks like after potentially hours of tweaking in lightroom is
       | less interesting for the average consumer than what the pics look
       | like without any editing IMO.
       | 
       | Don't get me wrong, it's still valuable to see what CAN be
       | accomplished, but most people aren't going to spend that amount
       | of time, so show us how much work you had to put into post-
       | processing for those results. Otherwise it just kind of feels
       | like an advertisement for Apple.
        
         | squeaky-clean wrote:
         | The pre-edited photos are in proRaw format, is that format
         | viewable in a browser? Outside of posting the raw files for
         | download, any means of making them viewable on the web would
         | involve some form of editing, even if it's the process iOS does
         | automatically.
         | 
         | I do agree though that it would be useful to state how much
         | time and effort was spent in lightroom and PS.
        
         | qwertyuiop_ wrote:
         | I have an iPhone and I am always disappointed with the results
         | when compared to a mirror less and DSLR. If you see the lions
         | picture closely there is no sharpness. There is a lot of
         | computational color magic that goes behind the scenes to make
         | the images pop but when you look closer they are obviously no
         | where close to pro-am cameras.
        
           | mosselman wrote:
           | But an iPhone fits in your pocket.
           | 
           | I have a DSLR and I now don't bring it along anymore. I have
           | three kids, so I already have to carry around a lot of stuff
           | and children, so there is no more room or energy for my DSLR.
           | My phone is always in my pocket though.
           | 
           | I recently invested in some phone lenses by Moment and I am
           | very excited about them. They also fit in my pocket and I can
           | pop one on my phone in about 10 seconds.
        
             | handrous wrote:
             | > I have a DSLR and I now don't bring it along anymore. I
             | have three kids, so I already have to carry around a lot of
             | stuff and children, so there is no more room or energy for
             | my DSLR. My phone is always in my pocket though.
             | 
             | I also have kids, and _no_ phone without seamless,
             | automatic cloud backups and the ability to transparently
             | take  "Live Photos"[0] is at all interesting to me now. I
             | don't care how good the stills are, if it doesn't have
             | those two things.
             | 
             | [0] Live Photos are a feature of Apple phones where it
             | captures a few seconds of video _before and after_ you
             | snapped a photo, including sound. Tap and hold on the photo
             | to play the video. They 're basically magic, especially if
             | you have kids. Like the moving photos in Harry Potter. They
             | also make photos with waterfalls in them really cool
             | instead of reliably terrible.
        
             | aequitas wrote:
             | Consider switching to a APS-C type mirrorless or Micro Four
             | Thirds. They might not be as good as a full frame DSLR, but
             | the lenses are a lot lighter and compact. So instead of
             | carrying around a backpack you can easily fit everything
             | into a small messenger bag which you can easily take
             | everywhere.
        
             | lostgame wrote:
             | A ukulele is easy to carry around, but is pretty pathetic
             | sounding compared to a proper acoustic guitar when it comes
             | time to actually play songs.
             | 
             | For the average consumer who doesn't know how to play music
             | at all, maybe the ukulele would be a nice option. If you
             | hand a professional guitarist a ukulele, and tell them it's
             | a proper guitar, they will probably laugh at you.
             | 
             | That a ukulele is smaller is actually the opposite of what
             | I'm looking for. I don't need a smaller guitar. I need a
             | nice one, that plays and responds like I'd expect a guitar
             | to.
             | 
             | I would never use a ukulele as a way to somehow replace a
             | recording of a traditional guitar, even though it's more
             | convenient.
             | 
             | There are thousands of photographers who feel this way
             | about DSLR's.
             | 
             | If it doesn't fit your current/busy lifestyle, cool - the
             | ukulele works for you. But don't pretend the ukulele is /
             | can be a guitar. Popping lenses onto an iPhone camera is
             | like putting an amplifier onto the ukulele. You're still
             | trying to make something better that is, due to its size
             | alone, never going to have the depth or quality a guitar or
             | DSLR would have.
             | 
             | Also, I'm not dissing the ukulele, here. I'm trying to
             | provide an example that just because a tool can work for a
             | purpose, doesn't mean it's the right tool for the job.
        
               | 1123581321 wrote:
               | I realize this isn't the main point but the uke is kind
               | of famous for being beloved by famous guitarists. George
               | Harrison had a lot to do with that. He supposedly would
               | keep a bunch in his trunk. I believe he gave Tom Petty
               | two to get him going; as Tom told it, George came back to
               | give him the second one because "you never know."
        
               | dagw wrote:
               | _If you hand a professional guitarist a ukulele, they
               | will probably laugh at you._
               | 
               | From personal experience, if you hand a professional
               | guitarist a ukulele, he will play the shit out of it and
               | make it sound better than you've ever heard a ukulele
               | sound.
        
               | selykg wrote:
               | Beyond that... a Ukulele, while a stringed instrument
               | like a guitar, it's purpose isn't to replace or compete
               | with a typical 6 string guitar. It's designed to do
               | something different, it has a totally different tonal
               | characteristic.
               | 
               | OP, is making a weird comparison is all I'm sayin I
               | guess.
        
               | bjtitus wrote:
               | Damn, just throwing Israel Kamakawiwo'ole right under the
               | bus there.
        
               | alistairSH wrote:
               | And Jake Shimabukuro.
        
             | smt923 wrote:
             | > But an iPhone fits in your pocket.
             | 
             | this is the reason I loved the Ricoh GR series of cameras,
             | an APS-C sensor that genuinely fits in almost any pocket is
             | incredible, it's not for everyone but I wish there were
             | more companies trying this, even the X100 cameras are too
             | big for that
        
               | noneeeed wrote:
               | I had the GR1V film camera. It was so, so good for taking
               | hiking.
        
               | 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
               | Same with the powershot line. It's good enough and fits
               | in your pocket.
        
           | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
           | The lack of sharpness is obvious. Saturated colours don't
           | make up for it.
           | 
           | It is a pocket camera, and it does very well.
           | 
           | But I agree - it's clearly not a substitute for even a mid-
           | range prosumer SLR.
        
           | selsta wrote:
           | These images appear to be significantly downsized for the
           | blog, you can't use them to judge sharpness.
        
         | strogonoff wrote:
         | Pre-edited photo is a myth. Cameras capture light values far
         | exceeding dynamic range of any output media. Fitting scene-
         | referred data into capabilities of screens or paper is always a
         | subjective art and is ultimately photographer's job.
         | 
         | In digital, all "unedited" means is using camera firmware's
         | interpretation of raw values; especially with complex
         | processing in modern phones this isn't a very good measure as
         | scene recognition can be hit or miss and the algorithm is a
         | black box.
         | 
         | (What could be indicative is posting scene raws alongside
         | exhaustive development presets, of course.)
        
           | stared wrote:
           | Sure, no photo is unedited. But there is a difference what is
           | the effort of post-processing. Is it none, a few seconds, a
           | few minutes with Lightroom, or hours with Photoshop?
           | 
           | With enough effort you can basically do whatever you wish,
           | especially when it comes to increasing quality (see for
           | example this one https://gizmodo.com/deep-learning-can-now-
           | flawlessly-correct...).
        
             | strogonoff wrote:
             | It is true that there is a difference in the amount of
             | manual tweaking, but at the same time any remaining
             | objectivity in "unedited" phone-produced output-referred
             | (non-raw) images is fading fast. In other words, imagine if
             | the technology by your link is silently incorporated in the
             | next version of iOS Camera app without you knowing--and I'm
             | not even sure this is an outrageous exaggeration.
        
           | ValentineC wrote:
           | I'm guessing what the parent might have wanted is something
           | straight out of the Camera app (or Halide), without any
           | further post-processing.
        
             | strogonoff wrote:
             | It could be helpful if one could assume if you took the
             | same photo in the same location by the same phone, the
             | result would look the same, which I don't think would be a
             | valid assumption anymore.
        
         | scko wrote:
         | I don't think they did tweak it that much. The chromatic
         | aberration and distortion from the lens is still visible. Maybe
         | a bit of colour work and changing the shadows was done.
         | Probably still very representative of what the iPhone's camera
         | can do.
        
         | binbag wrote:
         | Also, the end results look quite good, but not amazing.
        
         | drcongo wrote:
         | He's shooting in raw, if you do that you _have_ to post process
         | because otherwise it'll look flat and listless because raw is
         | capturing as much information as possible so that you can
         | choose later how you want it to look.
        
           | derefr wrote:
           | -
        
             | galago wrote:
             | RAW formats can/usually have a thumbnail/preview embedded.
             | I convert all of my Nikon RAW files to Adobe DNG (Adobe's
             | RAW format) and I have a Leica camera that uses DNG
             | natively. When I convert, I can chose to have a full-sized
             | preview embeded. This makes certain software give a faster
             | preview.
        
             | katbyte wrote:
             | My dslr did that - every photo had a .raw and a .jpg but it
             | rarely ended up close to what I'd get processing the raw
        
             | skhr0680 wrote:
             | Sorry If I'm misunderstanding something, but aren't both of
             | the things you mentioned already a reality? I thought RAWs
             | included jpeg already, and Bridge already has an option to
             | prefer that.
        
           | zitterbewegung wrote:
           | Maybe in the future photo reviews would also include the
           | photo in the raw format?
        
             | MrBoomixer wrote:
             | I'm curious as to what value would that provide most end
             | users of the content? If you're a photographer perhaps you
             | have software for processing the raw file and you want to
             | see what you can do with a raw file; however I still feel
             | that for most end users this would be useless. I would be
             | one of the few I think that may play around with this.
        
             | fermentation wrote:
             | Wouldn't help much for a "camera review". The raw would
             | just be a black-and-white mosaic that would look awful.
             | What you want is the processed jpeg out of the iPhone along
             | with the edited ProRAW. I'm not sure if the iPhone can do
             | this but a lot of cameras can shoot in RAW+JPEG mode.
        
               | mrunseen wrote:
               | Traditional RAW* wouldn't be a black-and-white mosaic. It
               | just would be data. RAW's need to be demosaiced to be
               | seen visually, which makes it dependent on software (or
               | algorithm).
               | 
               | * I don't know about Apple's ProRAW.
        
           | purple_ferret wrote:
           | to be clear, he's shooting in ProRAW, Apple's proprietary RAW
           | format.
        
             | defaultname wrote:
             | A ProRAW photo is a DNG file, using the new features added
             | to DNG 1.6. It isn't proprietary.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | They probably mean the best image you can get without _human_
           | intervention, or perhaps the image you get in your
           | "viewfinder".
        
         | hbosch wrote:
         | This is a professional photographer. Editing is part of the
         | photography process, just as important as taking the picture in
         | the first place and sometimes even more important to the end
         | result (that is to say, a poorly edited photo is often worse
         | than just having never taken the photo at all).
         | 
         | There are many, many, _many_ more reviews out there on the
         | internet that show casual, unedited photos from this camera. I
         | think this person 's use case and exhibition are interesting
         | due to his entire workflow.
        
           | Reubachi wrote:
           | But professional photographers who spend as much time editing
           | as photographing won't be purchasing this phone with that
           | intention. That would be lunacy, as their profession/hobby
           | likely already has had them invest thousands into
           | professional equipment.
           | 
           | This is directed towards those taking pictures for social
           | media. Advertising (that's what this is) in this way implies
           | that you, yes you, could be as good as a professional
           | photographer. Except, you also have to dedicate the time and
           | vast expertise, like a professional photographer would, to
           | get pictures like theirs. They cleverly leave that part out.
        
             | mbreese wrote:
             | The article has an entire section about how he often uses
             | an iPhone to shoot for clients and specifically about how
             | he sets up the phone to do so. I thought the "shoot mode"
             | was pretty clever and I didn't know that you could setup
             | those kinds of automations. It was a nice "pro-tip" that I
             | could see myself using.
        
           | Frost1x wrote:
           | The more surprising aspect to this review (maybe I missed
           | this part, I skimmed) is how there wasn't much discussed
           | about having a bigger and more ergonomic hand mount for the
           | phone when shooting. I don't even mean with all sorts of
           | nifty expensive stabilizers, just something to hold onto the
           | phone and shoot better. I did see use of a small tripod at
           | one point and a mount to a vehicle but for the hands,
           | nothing.
           | 
           | Maybe I'm getting old but I find it difficult to shoot good
           | photos even with the bulkiest of phone cases, while also
           | being able to hit the shutter without shifting my camera
           | drastically.
           | 
           | I personally use a Note so the S pen works great as a built
           | in remote shutter (especially nice for tripod shots) but I
           | can't for the life of me get good shots with the UI shutter
           | or even volume/side button rockers. Sure you have voice
           | controls or shutter timmers but timmers are not ideal in most
           | shooting conditions from my experience, unless you have
           | humans. You can also burst or drop frames from video but ick,
           | shooting professional photos with a phone as is seems
           | unnecessarily uncomfortable to me.
        
             | vlovich123 wrote:
             | I haven't tried this but apparently the Apple watch has
             | integration for showing you a preview & letting you take a
             | photo. More expensive for sure but probably similar utility
             | as the pen approach?
        
               | eric_h wrote:
               | it does - I've used it for properly aiming a tripod video
               | recording setup when it was in a location where I could
               | not see the screen (well above me).
        
           | hellbannedguy wrote:
           | I don't think I have ever seen a review of a camera done by a
           | professional, or pretty much anyone else, that didn't include
           | raw photos.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | > Is it just me or does it feel a little off-putting that he
         | doesn't bother to post the pre-edited photos?
         | 
         | This is a professional photographer writing a review targeted
         | at other professional photographers, so it feels appropriate to
         | post photos shot and developed as a professional photographer
         | would.
         | 
         | Regardless, the article is more about features like the new
         | macro mode with short focus distance and the performance of the
         | telephoto lens. Those don't depend on manual post-processing.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | I agree 100%. One of the biggest things I'm curious about is
         | how bad the artifacting is on features like focus racking and
         | the macro lens. Sure it's cool to see a photography showcase,
         | but it doesn't really feel substantial as a review. His
         | rhetoric is also extremely awkward, like here for example:
         | 
         | > As I watched this piece, particularly the interview in
         | Cinematic mode, it dawned on me that we're moving beyond the
         | world of just computational photography and into the realm of
         | computational videography. The release of Cinematic mode marks
         | another one of those fundamental shifts where software,
         | unbounded by the limitations of hardware, has opened up
         | entirely new possibilities in the creative process.
         | 
         | This is not a new experience, it's just one that Apple put
         | inside your iPhone. Reading stuff like this really makes me
         | wonder how critical they're being here, because it seems like
         | "it shoots photos better than the last one" is enough to
         | warrant a perfect review. And if that's the case, every camera
         | system on every phone ever is perfect and there's no point to
         | reviewing them at all, because you can rest assured knowing
         | your next phone will have 25% better digital zoom, or whatever.
        
           | GoodJokes wrote:
           | You seem triggered. Are you invested in something competing
           | with the phone. It is a new experience! For most people
           | without an expensive stand alone camera. perfect review? You
           | obviously didn't read the criticisms he wrote or notice the
           | lack of a rating or any sort of measure of perfection. You
           | sound jealous.
        
       | malshe wrote:
       | I used to have a DSLR camera and the pictures I've taken with it
       | are fantastic. But I realized that lugging it around was a chore
       | and whenever I wanted to take a shot in a jiffy, it was never
       | possible for me. With a small kid, it became even more difficult
       | to manage it because now I had a stroller and a diaper bag to
       | carry. Once I forgot my DSLR on a flight in Asia and that was the
       | time I realized I can't be bothered with it anymore. The airline
       | found it and returned it to me. I sold it soon after that along
       | with the lenses, tripod, and the camera bag to a photography
       | student at a steep discount.
       | 
       | Edit: The point is that a smartphone camera may never compete
       | with a DSLR on quality but its portability and convenience are
       | unparalleled.
        
         | ip26 wrote:
         | Also have small kids, also shoot a (high end) DSLR. On the one
         | hand I am all-in on the "always have it with you" side of
         | phones. On the other hand, I've noticed in a collage of 4x6's,
         | the best shots are all from the DSLR. The difference is
         | dramatic.
        
           | malshe wrote:
           | I agree on the quality
        
           | illegalsmile wrote:
           | I'm headed to Iceland in a few weeks and have been going back
           | and forth on dealing with bringing the DSLR but I think this
           | seals the deal. I think we'd all consider 4x6 on the small
           | side of a print and if an iPhone doesn't provide decent
           | prints at that size it has no hope at 8x12 or larger.
        
             | mkr-hn wrote:
             | You might want to consider photographer insurance or a
             | third-party warranty with weather damage coverage that
             | covers you if it happens outside the country you're insured
             | in. Camera companies boast about their weather sealing, but
             | they don't guarantee it. You can get camera parkas to
             | reduce the risk, but it's still a risk.
        
             | ip26 wrote:
             | To be clear the iPhone shots are still great, but the DSLR
             | is a cut above for certain scenes, e.g. low light
             | portraiture. (full frame, 24-70mm f/2.8)
             | 
             | Sticking with one high quality lens & bringing no
             | accessories helps a lot with the overhead. Pick up a tiny
             | USB battery cradle & reuse your phone charger...
        
               | ansgri wrote:
               | For low light portraiture get yourself an aps-c
               | mirrorless with a modern 56 or 30/1.4 lens and get both
               | image quality and portability, no need for full-frame now
               | outside of pro sports or wildlife.
        
               | ip26 wrote:
               | In my case, I also shoot wildlife, and a fast zoom is
               | clinch for preschoolers :)
               | 
               | Not recommending my gear choices, just acknowledging I
               | wasn't getting those results with a 18-55 on a Rebel.
        
         | haswell wrote:
         | I'm currently using an iPhone 12 Pro Max, and the quality is
         | quite good.
         | 
         | However, I also recently purchased an Olympus OM-D EM5 Mark III
         | because I wanted more control and the ability to take better
         | photos. This is a Micro Four Third's camera, and I think this
         | is really the ideal "middle ground" for getting great shots
         | without the weight of a full-frame mirrorless or DSLR.
         | 
         | It's not quite "pocket" sized, but small enough to throw in my
         | over-the-shoulder bag, and I'll regularly take it on bike rides
         | around the city I live in.
         | 
         | As others have pointed out, the best camera it he one you have
         | with you, and the iPhone does quite well in more and more
         | situations, but if you want the best of both worlds:
         | interchangeable lenses, world class IBIS, full manual control
         | _in a small package_ that won 't wear you out after a few
         | hours, the MFT cameras are great.
        
           | Heliosmaster wrote:
           | I thought the same of my Fujifilm X100F.. and it's mostly
           | staying at home while I go around. I just don't think about
           | it enough. Whereas my phone is always in my pocket. Mind that
           | I have an Android phone with a subpar camera, and yet I reach
           | out for the iPhone of my partner when we go around and i want
           | to take some pictures.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | bzzzt wrote:
         | I feel exactly the opposite way: when making photo's with my
         | mirrorless camera I've got the photo 'under control', while
         | having to balance an expensive phone with bad ergonomics for
         | photography feels like it's a chore to take a picture.
         | 
         | Just look at all these 'pros' who are promoting iPhone
         | photography: they're lugging all kinds of gear (tripods, cages,
         | lenses) with them to help them make use of the phone. Seems
         | like a small stretch to me to also bring a proper camera
         | instead of a phone.
        
       | zz865 wrote:
       | I've pretty much stopped using my dSLR. My (android) phone isn't
       | quite as good but so much smaller and more convenient its
       | completely taken over. I'm torn whether I should upgrade dSLR
       | because I love them, but will probably give up.
        
         | pornel wrote:
         | Same here. I've even tried a compact DSLR and with a pancake
         | lens to get some of the portability, but it's still relatively
         | bulky and lacks connectivity. Technically the DSLR even has Wi-
         | Fi and Bluetooth, but camera makers can't write software, so
         | it's unusable.
        
         | mikeyouse wrote:
         | I'm a bit sad, but I've made the same decision recently.
         | 
         | I had an older mirrorless Sony that I really enjoyed using and
         | taking pictures -- and honestly, I did enjoy the process but it
         | was partially because I could take _much better_ pictures than
         | anyone who was just using a phone.
         | 
         | While shopping for a new camera, I just couldn't get past how
         | much better phones have become and how much more convenient
         | they are. I'm sure I'll still use my existing camera, and maybe
         | look at buying an upgraded one used in a few years, but in
         | terms of "Good Images per Dollar", it's just a no-brainer to
         | spend that $1,000 on a 13 Pro instead of a new body.
        
       | notjustanymike wrote:
       | I've been on some photography excursions where your main camera
       | just starts to piss you off. Notably, stumbling through the woods
       | trying to get macro shots of tree bark patterns. It's always nice
       | to decide the chunky camera isn't working and revert to the
       | phone, especially if it's a reliable shooter.
       | 
       | Having a tiny, powerful backup camera is a joy for shooting.
       | It'll never be my main, but it has salvaged a shooting day here
       | and there.
        
       | skhr0680 wrote:
       | Phones are good for portability but for any once in a lifetime
       | experience, I would rather take some real camera gear. The amount
       | of computer magic the iPhone camera does to photos look good is
       | plainly visible in the sample pictures in the review.
       | 
       | For what an iPhone goes for these days it's possible to buy a
       | used high grade camera body and a good prime lens if you can
       | handle shooting with something a generation or two old. If you
       | spend your time taking photos instead of reading blogs and taking
       | photos of charts, you will be very happy.
        
         | GordonS wrote:
         | I used to feel the same way 10 years ago, but the quality of
         | phone cameras nowadays is incredible.
         | 
         | They have to make some compromises because of their size, so a
         | pro with a DSLR is always going to win. But for the rest of us,
         | phone cameras make it so much quicker and easier to get a good
         | photo. And you don't have to lug gear around with you
         | everywhere and spend ages fiddling with settings, tripods and
         | lenses.
         | 
         | So, as a non-pro, I prefer my phone camera, even for once in a
         | lifetime experiences - it actually means I get to _experience_
         | more myself, rather than my experience being taken up by the
         | camera.
        
           | skhr0680 wrote:
           | It's easy to tell from the photos in the article that the
           | iPhone is making up a lot of the images. It's like a dream,
           | it looks perfect until you start paying attention, and your
           | brain starts filling in the gaps with nonsense. To me, that's
           | not good enough for a cherished memory.
           | 
           | > And you don't have to lug gear around with you everywhere
           | and spend ages fiddling with settings, tripods and lenses.
           | 
           | I feel like if you're lugging a lot of gear around it should
           | be to take a photo that is difficult or literally impossible
           | to take with a phone anyway.
        
             | 015a wrote:
             | No one remembers events perfectly. You remember the
             | highlights; your brain fills in the gaps with what it
             | believes it remembers happens, sometimes going so far as to
             | lie to you.
             | 
             | When faced with that fact, you can choose to feel that it
             | elevates the importance of accurate recreation of the past
             | in our photographs.
             | 
             | I'm more on the opposite side; I don't look at old photos
             | to remember what happened. I look at them to remember how I
             | felt when it happened. I'll never look at an old photo and
             | think "what the; the goldenrod shade of that lion's mane
             | had a 0.54% deeper saturation in real life, this camera
             | sucks!" I'll be thinking "that lion _was_ fucking awesome,
             | and this photo _makes him look_ fucking awesome. "
             | 
             | So, maybe camera phones over-process and produce a dream-
             | like representation of what happened. That's how everyone
             | remembers how it happened anyway. There's certainly value
             | in accuracy, but I'm not the New York Times.
        
             | kaba0 wrote:
             | Your brain does much much stronger "computational
             | photography" on everything you see. Like, there is no hole
             | around your nose, the physical hardware ain't as good as
             | the resulting picture, we do plenty of noise reduction,
             | etc.
             | 
             | Compared to that, these AIs are mostly overhyped noice
             | reducers.
        
       | nitesher wrote:
       | I went on safari with duma explorer over the summer
       | (https://www.dumaexplorer.com/) Hard not to take amazing photos
       | with any camera. Unbelievable trip.
        
       | overlaid wrote:
       | I tried to sign up for the email in the banner at the top of the
       | page, but it was blocked by a modal asking me to sign up for the
       | email
        
       | stared wrote:
       | Since I bought iPhone 12 Pro a few weeks ago [1], I am curios
       | what is the camera upgrade (and if should regret my impatience).
       | 
       | A real-world side-by-side comparisons:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nty5sWZFbA and
       | https://www.inputmag.com/reviews/iphone-13-pro-max-review-a-....
       | tl;dr:
       | 
       | - slightly better tele
       | 
       | - slightly better in the dark
       | 
       | - macro mode (but there is video macro autoswitch, which everyone
       | finds annoying)
       | 
       | - in other conditions practically no difference even if comparing
       | side-by-side
       | 
       | [1] Yes, just before iPhone 12 Pro release; I am impatient + was
       | in an urgent need.
        
         | marrone12 wrote:
         | There is a 14 day return window if you happen to be within it
         | still.
        
       | glanzwulf wrote:
       | Take a professional photographer who knows what he's doing and
       | put him in a fantastic looking setting, and BAM! Magic.
       | 
       | Let me review the camera and nobody will buy the phone.
        
         | BoorishBears wrote:
         | You just sold the phone for me though, instead of having to
         | carry around a DSLR on a safari he carried a phone that would
         | fit in the side pocket of the average camera case and _still_
         | got magic...
        
       | CarVac wrote:
       | For those itching for better-than-phone image quality in a
       | portable form factor, look no further than the Ricoh GR, which
       | packs a huge APS-C sensor and an incredible lens into a tiny
       | inconspicuous package.
        
         | kemayo wrote:
         | Not disputing that it's small for a real camera and probably
         | takes _fantastic_ pictures, but it 's still the size of 4
         | iPhones stacked on top of each other, which takes it out of the
         | realm of easy pocket-carrying for me.
        
           | CarVac wrote:
           | Personally I carry my GR on a (tiny) shoulder strap in the
           | summer or in a jacket pocket in the winter. It would fit
           | nicely into a purse too.
           | 
           | I carry my Pixel everywhere, but I simply detest using it for
           | artistic photos because the touchscreen controls are simply
           | too clumsy and the image quality, while good on-phone, just
           | falls to pieces at home on my 4k screen.
        
       | pen2l wrote:
       | Here's my gripe about conventional photography equipment coming
       | from the big tech players, including new iPhones. They're
       | processing with AI. Which means they train on a certain
       | dataset... choose some parameters which they deem suitable, and
       | apply this to everything.
       | 
       | And that's my issue: as soon as we jump in to explore some
       | uncharted and new territory and capture and preserve it in an
       | authentic way, we're capturing a false state. Even if raw can be
       | captured, I fear most won't. Consider that if you use Google
       | photos to store your iPhone images, Google dings you for
       | capturing raw (I remember from advertising literature some time
       | ago that storage capacity was unlimited if you agree to have your
       | images rescales, but limited if you choose to store them unscaled
       | and unprocessed). What a confusing and strange pass to our
       | posterity.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | twothumbsup wrote:
         | Can't you take photos in RAW though, on iPhones at least? My
         | assumption is that would produce a file w/o the AI processing
         | applied that you could then process yourself, but I don't know
         | for sure if that's the case.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | > _Can't you take photos in RAW though, on iPhones at least?_
           | 
           | Yes.
           | 
           | > _My assumption is that would produce a file w /o the AI
           | processing applied that you could then process yourself..._
           | 
           | You are correct.
        
       | scko wrote:
       | I can't help but shake off the weird tricks that Apple do to the
       | video and images that make these videos obviously shot on an
       | iPhone. You can see the lack of sharpness where de-noising
       | occurs, and where the colours are blobbed together. I think
       | marketing the iPhone as being anything close to a replacement for
       | a DSLR, even be it an entry level 100 dollar DSLR is silly as
       | there's clearly a difference in quality just from camera sensor
       | size and higher quality lenses. Especially editing iPhone photos
       | using Lightroom limits you as many of the pre-processing steps
       | compensate for the small lens and the small sensor.
       | 
       | The iPhone's camera is great for what it is, but it's definitely
       | not anything close to a replacement of an entry level DSLR and
       | shouldn't really be marketed as such.
        
         | PragmaticPulp wrote:
         | > The iPhone's camera is great for what it is, but it's
         | definitely not anything close to a replacement of an entry
         | level DSLR and shouldn't really be marketed as such.
         | 
         | The iPhone isn't intended to compete with DSLRs because it's
         | literally a phone that fits in your pocket.
         | 
         | Phones don't compete with DSLRs because they serve different
         | purposes.
         | 
         | I can't realistically carry a DSLR or mirrorless camera
         | everywhere. I can, however, keep my phone in my pocket all the
         | time. That's why it's so great to have these reviews from
         | professional photographers to show what's capable in the
         | context of the phone.
         | 
         | It's not about DSLR versus iPhone. It's about what's possible
         | from the device I always have in my pocket.
        
           | munificent wrote:
           | _> The iPhone isn't intended to compete with DSLRs because
           | it's literally a phone that fits in your pocket._
           | 
           | I'm not sure how you measure "intent", but I think there's
           | fairly strong evidence that smartphone cameras have harmed
           | the DSRL market. Sales are about half of what they were in
           | 2008. This isn't just people moving to mirrorless either.
           | Sales of all camera formats are down. Smartphones basically
           | killed the market for compact cameras, whose sales today are
           | down about 90% in the same timeframe.
        
             | b9a2cab5 wrote:
             | Smartphones killed the market for _low end_ compact
             | cameras, because the average consumer uses their phone
             | instead of a shitty $200 entry level camera.
             | 
             | The high end stuff is doing well with content creators and
             | professionals. You can see this in the move upmarket of
             | things like Sony A6600 ($1400 APS-C camera) and RX100
             | series ($1300 compact camera) that are aimed at creators in
             | the attention economy. I think from here on we'll see
             | smartphone needs driving sensor development, but that
             | doesn't mean the camera market is dead.
        
               | munificent wrote:
               | _> The high end stuff is doing well with content creators
               | and professionals._
               | 
               | The high end stuff keeps getting better, just like every
               | technology keeps getting better, but I don't know if it's
               | "doing well" in the sense that overall sales of high end
               | camera gear are increasing.
               | 
               | As far as I can tell, that entire market segment is
               | shrinking. I'm not saying it's dead or even dying, but I
               | do think it's getting smaller.
        
             | bitcurious wrote:
             | The iPhone certainly didn't help, but just as important is
             | the fact that progress has slowed. Remember the digital
             | camera of 2000 vs 2010, and then 2010 vs 2020. I can take
             | excellent photos with a 10 year old digital camera, and
             | dreadful ones with a 20 year old.
        
         | whatever1 wrote:
         | I hear you, but the iPhone has given me so many photos that no
         | way a DSLR would had given me, because it is so portable.
         | 
         | You always carry your phone, but not your dslr. For an
         | untrained eye, the iPhone 11,12 photos look gorgeous.
         | 
         | For professionals of course there is no debate, regardless what
         | Apple marketing is claiming.
        
           | ninjin wrote:
           | I think your portability point is a fair one and also what
           | motivated 35mm photography about a hundred years ago. But I
           | think the DSLR vs phone comparison is flawed. There are
           | plenty of wonderful point-and-shoot cameras that easily fit
           | in your handbag, satchel, or whatnot and can give any phone a
           | run for its money with its bigger sensor and larger glass -
           | without being a bulky DSLR. It is a spectrum is what I am
           | trying to say I guess.
        
             | lawkwok wrote:
             | Curious if you have such a camera on your person every day?
             | It's an extra thing to charge, you can't edit and post
             | directly to social media, getting pictures backed up is not
             | automatic. It's a totally different experience and for most
             | people, they don't want to hang large prints of their
             | photos at home. They just need enough quality to show their
             | friends and family.
        
             | whatever1 wrote:
             | But half of the magic of DSLRs is in the lenses, and
             | unfortunately there is no single lenses that can work
             | everywhere.
             | 
             | Regarding portability, yes point-and-shoots are portABLE,
             | but in reality you don't have them in your pocket 100% of
             | the time, like you have a smartphone. You need to think
             | about packing one more thing, that you may or may not need,
             | so you won't bother.
             | 
             | In summary, with a point-and shoot you are making two
             | compromises: 1)photo quality 2)availability. In my opinion
             | they are worse both than a DSLR and a good smartphone.
        
             | rootusrootus wrote:
             | > handbag, satchel, or whatnot
             | 
             | That's the thing, though. Many of us, especially men (but
             | many women as well, including my wife) do not carry around
             | a bag or wear a bulky jacket with pockets big enough for
             | even the smallest mirrorless. So packing one along
             | everywhere I go wouldn't be any more convenient than just
             | grabbing the bag with my 7D.
        
               | ansgri wrote:
               | What do you carry around then though? you need a laptop,
               | documents and stuff, might as well put a compact ILC in
               | that bag.
               | 
               | No way I'd do that with an (outdated) DSLR though.
        
               | kemayo wrote:
               | Those aren't things you _always_ need, though. If you
               | commute to an office, sure, you probably take a bag with
               | those things with you during that. But do you take that
               | bag with you when you go out with friends? If you go to
               | walk your dog in the park? Maybe you do, but I think most
               | people don 't.
               | 
               | Speaking for myself, if I'm going out without any special
               | goal, I'll just have my phone, keys, and wallet.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | kaba0 wrote:
         | I am by no means a professional in the field, but what DSLRs
         | have over phones in terms of sensor size, phones have it in
         | terms of computing power. And the same way we collectively
         | could take a picture of a black hole, with "intelligence" we
         | can sew back a good picture from multiple less good ones.
         | 
         | The one thing that can't really be replaced is zoom.
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | I believe these were shot in raw and edited by hand later,
         | which should mean none of the default iPhone processing came
         | into play
        
         | q-rews wrote:
         | In my father's hands, the iPhone shoots better photos than his
         | Sony A6000, so it depends on how entry level we go.
        
           | ansgri wrote:
           | In my hands the iPhone 12 consistently performs better in
           | indoor conditions than my old a5100 (basically a more compact
           | a6000), especially with the awful kit lens.
           | 
           | I like shooting outdoor on telephoto (135mm+), and there the
           | phones are nowhere as competitive, and won't be for a long
           | time, if ever. Actually that's where the progress in
           | standalone cameras is: more compact telephoto lenses, sharper
           | zooms, faster autofocus, even less noise. And no, multiframe
           | fusion won't help when you're shooting quick action.
        
       | lbj wrote:
       | First time I've been impressed with a phone-camera since the
       | Nokias windows Phone, which still stands as the best phone Ive
       | ever had.
       | 
       | This one:
       | https://www.freshnessmag.com/.image/t_share/MTM2NjQ3MjI5MTMz...
        
         | mgdlbp wrote:
         | A while back, I sought comparisons between the famous Lumia
         | 1020 (with a 41 megapixel, 1/1.2" sensor in 2013^) and modern
         | phones^^ and found quite surprisingly many. It seems like
         | that's still happening; this website has many in detail,
         | including one with the iPhone 12.[1]
         | 
         | IIRC the results had become fairly close between the 1020 and
         | modern phones by late 2019, with the 1020 being markedly
         | superior with post-processing turned down.
         | 
         | ^ considered significant as it was far superior at the time to
         | every other phone camera and most point-and-shoots; also found
         | in a more rudimentary form in the Nokia 808 from the year
         | before
         | 
         | ^^ For reference, the iPhone 13 seems to have a 1/1.65" main
         | sensor in a 'Pro 12MP camera system'. IIRC, 48 MP sensors from
         | Xiaomi in early 2020 were the first to surpass the 1020 in
         | megapixel count, and a few uncommon phones over the years have
         | had sensors of larger area.
         | 
         | [1]
         | http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/features/item/24099_Bypopula...
        
           | lbj wrote:
           | Thanks for sharing that!
           | 
           | The Iphone clearly does a better job now. When I highlighted
           | the Lumia it was not in absolute terms, but the jump in
           | quality from my previous phone, and Im hoping the I13 is a
           | similar jump. Currently I have the X and it takes really bad
           | photos.
           | 
           | But overall, I just loved everything about Lumia/Windows.
           | Very non-intrusive. The e-ink layout took almost no power to
           | run, had no apps in the store so very fast.. :)
        
             | mgdlbp wrote:
             | Even now, I'm still fond of the Pivot control. Alas, side-
             | scrolling for navigation seems to be a foregone paradigm;
             | all that's left are horizontal lists. Maybe navbars and
             | hamburgers positioned on the _farthest edge of the screen_
             | are more usable, but the Pivot was just so Swiss! It 's
             | ironic, though, that the situation with home screens is
             | inverted: orthodox launchers have horizontal pages, but the
             | WP Start screen is vertical and unpaginated!
             | 
             | One app in particular, a WP original and exclusive, now
             | comes to mind: _Logic Games_ , a diverse collection of
             | grid-based logic puzzles, had an extreme but effective take
             | on this kind of navigation: nested horiz/vert scrolling
             | formed a grid of phone screen-sized pages for puzzle types,
             | and each page contained a grid of tiles for individual
             | puzzles (sadly, 4D chess was not among them). I've yet to
             | come across a more extensive unified set of grid-based
             | puzzle implementations, though Simon Tatham's collection
             | has similar spirit:
             | 
             | https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/
             | 
             | Looks like it's still listed in the store at:
             | 
             | https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/p/logic-games/9wzdncrfhmwc
             | 
             | Though from the screenshots, I've just realized that it
             | actually uses not Pivot, but Panorama controls:
             | 
             | https://web.archive.org/web/20131124064955/http://msdn.micr
             | o...
             | 
             | Reviewing the docs in the Wayback Machine, Pivot was toned
             | down in UWP to a tab-like appearance and recently
             | deprecated in WinUI by NavigationView.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | schmorptron wrote:
       | The one thing I'm "jealous" of with iphones as an android user in
       | terms of camera features are live photos, and how seamlessly
       | integrated they are. Whenever friends take live photos, it just
       | seems to capture the moment way better, even if it's just a
       | second or two of video in addition to a fully post-processed
       | photo. Really wish there was a standard file format for these and
       | Google / all Android manufacturers would adopt it. It really adds
       | a lot.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | dekoruotas wrote:
       | The telephoto pictures really highlight the shortcomings of small
       | optics... I think he will have to buy the Iphone 14 Pro now.
        
       | asimpletune wrote:
       | I can't wait for when the technology for periscopic phone cameras
       | is perfected. e.g. https://www.macrumors.com/guide/periscope-
       | lens/
        
         | vvladymyrov wrote:
         | I hope periscope can lens will be available in Pro (not Max
         | Pro) iPhone version. Maybe this will convince me to make a jump
         | from IPhone Mini.
        
       | fleddr wrote:
       | Whilst I will in fact get this phone, this review unintentionally
       | manipulates you into a favorable opinion. It's not just in the
       | competency of the photographer, but also in the choice of
       | subjects.
       | 
       | It's near impossible to make ugly photos in Tanzania, even with
       | low-end skills or gear. The subjects, scenery and light
       | conditions are naturally very beautiful on their own. The output
       | will be visually attractive and you'd not easily notice any lack
       | of technical attractiveness.
       | 
       | Compare this to photographing technical test charts or you
       | walking the dog at night. As the subjects themselves are
       | unexciting, it would be better suitable to analyze technical
       | image quality.
       | 
       | Another interesting aspect of analyzing the quality of mobile
       | photography is that counter intuitively, mobile phone screens are
       | drastically superior to most desktop monitors. Mobile screens
       | increasingly are OLED for deep contrast, wide gamut for richer
       | colors, and have a pixel density that is a multiple of desktop
       | screens.
       | 
       | Most photos taken on a mobile phone completely fall apart when
       | viewed on a big screen, as it then becomes obvious how much of a
       | smudge they are.
       | 
       | That said, we've come a long way, and I am impressed.
        
         | dougmwne wrote:
         | Back in the old internet days, there was a camera review site
         | that always took the same picture of some toys on a shelf. It
         | was pretty boring photography, but did a great job a
         | highlighting the difference between cameras.
        
           | zrail wrote:
           | dpreview.com is still very much alive.
        
             | dougmwne wrote:
             | Ah, thank you, haven't read one of their reviews in years.
             | Happy to hear they're still fighting the good image quality
             | fight.
        
               | tafda wrote:
               | Like IMDB, they have solid backing: " DPReview.com is a
               | wholly-owned, editorially independent subsidiary of
               | Amazon.com."
        
             | kwanbix wrote:
             | Loved the knowledge of the community at dpreview, however,
             | the software used for the forum was hideous. It seems they
             | have changed it since last I used it.
        
             | aaroninsf wrote:
             | This remains my favorite camera review site.
        
           | screye wrote:
           | GSMarena still does this for every phone they review.
           | 
           | They are the benchmark for phone reviews and technically
           | reproducible experiments. Anandtech is amazing too, but they
           | they have very low coverage over phones and are usually
           | pretty late to the party.
           | 
           | See links here:
           | 
           | https://www.gsmarena.com/piccmp.php3?idType=4&idPhone1=10906.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://www.gsmarena.com/vidcmp.php3?idType=3&idPhone1=10906.
           | ..
        
           | stared wrote:
           | https://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/cameras and a few
           | others (e.g. https://www.imaging-
           | resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM)
        
           | goatsi wrote:
           | Arstechnica took a picture of a stuffed Koopa and Goomba in
           | low light conditions with every phone they reviewed for years
           | and years. It was great because they could put together a
           | gallery of images to compare directly between phones. They
           | seem to have moved onto some Ratchet and Clank figurines for
           | the most recent reviews however.
        
             | cptskippy wrote:
             | That always irks me about review sites.Anand and Toms
             | hardware do similar things with hardware benchmarks. I
             | understand that use cases and workloads change overtime so
             | you need to change up your test methodology but there
             | always seems to be a lack of continuity and instead an
             | abrupt change over.
             | 
             | I progressively upgrade my gaming rig and my video card is
             | from the stone age (2017), when I eventually get around to
             | upgrading I won't be able to compare it to newer cards.
             | 
             | I'd like to see review sites progressively update their
             | tests so you can at least track progress by comparing A to
             | B to C to D even if you can't directly compare A to D.
        
         | ISL wrote:
         | I'll second this notion, in part.
         | 
         | It was a revelation that the warm colors and soft morning light
         | I'd seen in National Geographic images of Africa as a child
         | were real. In Ghana during the Harmattan, every morning and
         | evening just look like that; it is incredibly beautiful. With
         | that knowledge, I'm prepared to believe that other places in
         | Africa might be similar.
         | 
         | The iPhone 13 review primarily made me want to go travel.
         | 
         | Technically, I still prefer the output from more-traditional
         | imaging systems. The ergonomics of phone-cameras don't yet work
         | for me, either.
         | 
         | What I was struck by from the article, though, was that the
         | iPhone images were good-enough to be publishable from a
         | photojournalism context. As these imaging systems are generally
         | incremental improvements, that means the camera in your pocket
         | right now can do it, too.
         | 
         | Find interesting subjects in compelling light, frame them in a
         | way that says something you wish to convey or remember, and
         | push the button. f/8 and be there.
        
           | mensetmanusman wrote:
           | For ergonomics, I use the volume button as the shutter, not
           | the on screen dot:)
        
             | brundolf wrote:
             | I didn't know you could do that!
        
             | jader201 wrote:
             | For some reason, I've never adjusted to using it. Anytime I
             | try, I either lock my phone (by also hitting the lock
             | button), or it's off center and/or blurry due to the
             | additional pressure required to hit the volume button (they
             | require considerably more force than a typical shutter
             | button on a camera, especially with some cases).
             | 
             | So I just stick to using the onscreen dot (which, as you
             | all have said, has other ergonomic issues).
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | I think what you say is true, but it seems to imply that this
         | article is saying little more than "this phone camera is
         | uniquely great, because look how pretty these few pictures
         | are." In fact, the content of the article is more about this
         | photographer's experience with this phone camera, and specifics
         | about how he uses it versus how he might use alternative
         | cameras.
        
         | dt3ft wrote:
         | Plus, all photos shown were shot in proraw and edited with
         | expensive software.
        
           | ddoolin wrote:
           | I wouldn't call Lightroom CC "expensive"...it's less than a
           | Netflix subscription. I guess everything is relative
           | nonetheless.
        
             | rualca wrote:
             | > I wouldn't call Lightroom CC "expensive"...it's less than
             | a Netflix subscription.
             | 
             | The site states $126/year.
             | 
             | > I guess everything is relative nonetheless.
             | 
             | Right, $126/year might not sound much for someone holding a
             | STEM job in the US, but unfortunately a lot of people live
             | well below that comfort level.
        
               | 1_player wrote:
               | > unfortunately a lot of people live well below that
               | comfort level
               | 
               | This is an article about the iPhone 13 Pro camera. If you
               | can afford it, you can afford $126/year.
               | 
               | As GP said, everything is relative.
        
               | stackbutterflow wrote:
               | You'd be surprised at the number of people whose monthly
               | income is below the price of an iphone, who own an iPhone
               | in some parts of Asia.
        
               | rualca wrote:
               | > This is an article about the iPhone 13 Pro camera. If
               | you can afford it (...)
               | 
               | Some people who purchase iPhones can't really afford them
               | in the sense of having hundreds of dollars of disposable
               | income, and either save their asses off to treat
               | themselves or take loans.
               | 
               | Apple controls a 20% market share of the smartphone
               | market. Do you really think 20% of the whole world can
               | simply spend $1k without batting an eye?
               | 
               | Even in the US close to 40% of it's population cannot
               | afford an emergency expense of up to $1k, and the US is
               | one of the nations leading in purchasing power.
               | 
               | There is more to life than well-paying STEM jobs in the
               | US.
        
           | gilrain wrote:
           | Indeed, as is appropriate; the ability to do both of those
           | things are attractions of the iPhone.
        
           | frakkingcylons wrote:
           | So? Isn't that what most enthusiast photographers would do?
           | Also, there's plenty of free or affordable software available
           | for editing RAW photos.
        
           | gpt5 wrote:
           | Adobe Lightroom is free on iPhone (which he claims he used)
        
             | sudosysgen wrote:
             | Yeah it's really really not the same thing as actual
             | Lightroom Classic or Lightroom on an iPad.
        
         | geokon wrote:
         | Does OLED really give better images compared to a good LCD?
         | 
         | I bought a Sony Xperia 5 II - thinking the OLED would give me a
         | better picture - and it objectively looks much much worse than
         | my much older LCD based Xiaomi 5 Note Pro (the camera is also
         | amazingly worse)
         | 
         | I then went to the electronics mall nearby, and I noticed that
         | the OLED laptops (from Asus) will have a much less vibrant
         | image than a something like a Macbook or Huawei
         | 
         | I dunno if this is just a personal-preference/psychosomatic, or
         | if there is really something to what I've observed. Would be
         | curious if anyone has more info
        
           | zokier wrote:
           | > I bought a Sony Xperia 5 II - thinking the OLED would give
           | me a better picture - and it objectively looks much much
           | worse than my much older LCD based Xiaomi 5 Note Pro (the
           | camera is also amazingly worse)
           | 
           |  _Objectively_? How did you measure that? Or did you mean
           | _subjectively_?
        
             | 1123581321 wrote:
             | Perhaps he meant that it's objective that he disliked it.
             | :)
        
             | geokon wrote:
             | a colloquial subjective objective :)
             | 
             | if it's "well i like this one better but maybe someone else
             | could like the other one more" then its subjectively
             | subjective
             | 
             | as opposed to here, where its so bad i cant see that happen
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | Your mind is probably conflating brightness with vibrance,
           | which makes sense because most electronics malls are quite
           | well-lit which helps you weed out the weaker, 250-nit panels
           | that Asus is trying to scam you into buying again.
        
             | geokon wrote:
             | I looked up some specs and that seems likely what's going
             | on. Interesting observation :). I've also gotten the
             | impression the bright lights tend to make matte screens
             | much worse
        
             | rowanG077 wrote:
             | I have not seen a 250 nits OLED screen. are they used in
             | phones/laptops?
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | "It's near impossible to make ugly photos in Tanzania"
         | 
         | I'll bet I could botch some photos in tanzania.
         | 
         | That said, I think in this era of "free" photos due to vast
         | memory, and "choose your effect" postprocessing... hmmm.
        
         | eurekin wrote:
         | Somehow the photos actually came across to me as comparatively
         | bad, esp. because of the noisy and contrasty out of focus areas
         | and oversharpening
        
         | dhx wrote:
         | Compare to a similar compilation of Tanzania safari shots[1]
         | captured at 2160p on a Panasonic GH5 with Leica 12-60mm
         | F2.8-4.0 lens (an example amateur enthusiast choice). Ignoring
         | the obvious difference in lenses, the GH5 has a 225mm^2 sensor
         | size compared to 44mm^2 for the iPhone 13 Pro or Pro Max
         | (approx. 5 times larger) and a much larger individual pixel
         | size.
         | 
         | When looking at individual frames mid-motion (anywhere in the
         | videos), the iPhone 13 has a noticeable lack of background
         | detail (blocky and smudged backgrounds).
         | 
         | The video shared here proves that photography skills such as
         | using shallow depth of fields, golden hour lighting, fast
         | motion, wide angles, etc can produce a result that hides camera
         | limitations and is potentially more enjoyable than poorly
         | thought out shots on an expensive camera.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7e2fi1EC8k
        
       | zokier wrote:
       | To me its not a question of some technical image quality but more
       | so about expressiveness and the ergonomics of that expression. If
       | you just want pretty pictures, then I think iPhone will probably
       | work just great. But if you want to photograph for photographys
       | sake then I feel like phone is still pretty constrictive and
       | unergonomic. It's hard to beat physical dials, buttons, and rings
       | positioned at your fingertips with touchscreens in the general
       | case (admitting that there are cases where touchscreen indeed can
       | be more convenient). Doing something like studio photography with
       | iPhone still sounds like an exercise in pain. While the triple-
       | camera setup certainly is improvement over single-cameras of
       | past, its still only three options instead of the nearly
       | limitless options you have with dSLRs, and you are getting
       | compromises (like losing max iso) when you move off the "main"
       | camera.
        
       | andreygrehov wrote:
       | I'm a huge fan of Apple and love iPhones, however...
       | 
       | Take a look at photos taken with iPhone 8. They are gorgeous.
       | 
       | https://austinmann.com/trek/iphone-8-camera-review-india
       | 
       | If you are a professional photographer AND you are in Tanzania
       | (or any other picturesque place), every photo is going to look
       | like a piece of art.
        
         | Synaesthesia wrote:
         | Oh yeah. Recently there was a iPhone photography competition
         | with lots of amazing photos from older devices, iPhone X,
         | iPhone 8,7 and even older.
        
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