[HN Gopher] New video shows Tesla on autopilot almost hitting st...
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New video shows Tesla on autopilot almost hitting state trooper
Author : camjohnson26
Score : 26 points
Date : 2021-09-23 19:01 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.clickorlando.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.clickorlando.com)
| obilgic wrote:
| Just got my Plaid 2 days ago. I already feel uncomfortable about
| how it changes lanes and merges into lanes. Def making other
| drivers notice something is up with the way it steers, especially
| during traffic. Not even talking about city streets.
|
| Also noticing that other drivers leave a lot more space
| instantly, and let me pass as soon as the turn signal is on, not
| sure if they are worried about it being on Autopilot.
| rvz wrote:
| This thing needs to investigated given that lots of these drivers
| are being too complacent with this auto-pilot beta software
| functionality.
|
| It has proven to be very unsafe to use on the roads and is
| putting the lives of other drivers at risk.
| [deleted]
| themodelplumber wrote:
| I didn't realize from the link title that it also collided with
| the stopped vehicle. Wow.
|
| It made me wonder, are the driving models trained at all to
| recognize accidents or other road anomalies? A plane making an
| emergency landing in front of them? Just curious.
|
| Edit: Would also be interested to know if there's a way police
| could work with Tesla or other autopilot carmakers to broadcast
| special codes like don't-hit-us-here-is-our location, or just
| send a signal blocking autopilot, or whatever. They already send
| texts and radio alerts, and there are already local AM alert
| stations in the US anyway.
|
| If my kids would be driving, I'd rather buy from that kind of
| manufacturer.
| g_p wrote:
| > Would also be interested to know if there's a way police
| could work with Tesla or other autopilot carmakers to broadcast
| special codes like don't-hit-us-here-is-our location, or just
| send a signal blocking autopilot, or whatever. They already
| send texts and radio alerts, and there are already local AM
| alert stations in the US anyway.
|
| I don't think this will be a good solution, since inherently
| these incidents happen when there's an "exception". If every
| stationary emergency vehicle had to send a notification each
| time the lights were activated, this would maybe work, until
| you're in an area without coverage.
|
| To me, we need to raise the bar for what's acceptable - this
| vehicle would presumably also have ploughed into an injured
| motorist's car before the police had arrived... The root
| problem isn't the lack of notice of the stopped emergency
| vehicle, rather it's the apparent inability to avoid a
| stationary vehicle on the roadway, which should be the very
| first (and simplest) thing to detect, since the self driving
| vehicle is closing in on it and can see its relative position
| isn't moving. If it can't do that, IMO it shouldn't be on a
| public road, as it isn't capable of basic speed management in
| traffic without being able to gauge closing speed against a
| vehicle ahead.
| melling wrote:
| How about a generic anti-collision with a large solid object?
| Radar? LiDAR? Nice safety feature.
| wil421 wrote:
| How hard would it be given that Tesla uses cameras to just
| disable Autopilot when it senses flashing lights? Or at least
| give the driver a few seconds to react before disabling
| Autopilot.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Released two days ago:
|
| New in #Tesla 2021.24.12 Owners Manual for #Model3 #ModelY "If
| Model 3/Model Y detects lights from an emergency vehicle when
| using Autosteer at night on a high speed road, the driving
| speed is automatically reduced and the touchscreen displays a
| message informing you of the slowdown. You will also hear a
| chime and see a reminder to keep your hands on the steering
| wheel. When the light detections pass by or cease to appear,
| Autopilot resumes your cruising speed. Alternatively, you may
| tap the accelerator to resume your cruising speed. Never depend
| on Autopilot features to determine the presence of emergency
| vehicles. Model 3/Model Y may not detect lights from emergency
| vehicles in all situations. Keep your eyes on your driving path
| and always be prepared to take immediate action."
|
| https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1440537502272536581.html
|
| Vehicle firmware revision uptake stats for vehicles using
| Teslascope [1] and TeslaFi [2].
|
| [1] https://teslascope.com/teslapedia/software
|
| [2] https://www.teslafi.com/firmware.php
| thebruce87m wrote:
| 100% Teslas fault here.
|
| BUT:
|
| Emergency vehicles should be hooked in to a crowd-sourced traffic
| system now. The first thing they should do is hit a big button on
| their dashboard that says "Road Closed", "lane blocked" etc which
| should then update Google maps etc and also disable things like
| autopilot for vehicles approaching the incident.
|
| This goes for things like roadworks too.
|
| A bit like Waze but the information comes from "official" sources
| and is required by law to be logged.
| dragontamer wrote:
| We can't even get police departments to agree to keep their
| body cameras on. Any such requirement you'd pass to officers
| like that would get wrecked by the police unions / F.O.P.
|
| Our police aren't organized at a national level in the USA: its
| a collection of 10,000+ departments, some of which are
| incredibly shallow (say 1 sheriff elected by the locals and 5
| deputies).
|
| ------
|
| To practically start something like that, you find police
| departments that are likely to agree with each other (ex: NYPD
| + Boston PD), and then maybe get an agreement between their
| Commissioners. You grow the alliance one step at a time. You're
| gonna have to figure out "why would the police want a system
| like this in their procedures?", such as arguing for a
| mitigation of accidents or whatever. Or maybe giving the police
| some kind of power (ex: official announcement to close a road
| and redirect traffic)
| cmsj wrote:
| That's not a bad sounding idea, but it makes a lot of
| assumptions about the infrastructure available in the region
| the self-driving car is being deployed.
|
| If the goal is really to make cars that can drive as well as
| humans, they need to be able to do that based only on on-board
| sensors.
| g_p wrote:
| I wonder if Tesla FSD is properly considering a windowed sample
| of images at a high enough sample rate to see modern high
| intensity strobe lights used on emergency vehicles.
|
| Clearly the dash cam used is sampling at a high enough rate to
| see them, but perhaps the Tesla isn't considering the a view of
| the road ahead across a wide enough period of time to see the
| hazard lights and understand the vehicle is potentially
| stationary and alerting drivers about a hazard.
|
| A very naive FSD algorithm working only from the current frame
| (without looking at past frames) could certainly mess this up,
| but at what point do we accept this simply isn't fit for purpose
| - it can't avoid hitting a stationary vehicle, so what hope does
| it have with slowly moving and other edge cases?
| rpmisms wrote:
| They just released an Emergency Vehicle Detection feature on
| basic autopilot, and so far it works.
|
| This is a big part of the rewrite of autopilot, the ML they use
| can now persist data through time, so it can reasonably predict
| if occluded objects will remain in place.
| snypher wrote:
| Emergency Vehicle Detection?! This was a stopped vehicle in
| the middle of the highway, maybe we could start by detecting
| those?
| dont__panic wrote:
| I'm curious how Tesla FSD works with obstacles that aren't cars
| or people on roads. Where I drive, I often have to slam on my
| brakes to avoid hitting deer, turkeys, small rodents, running
| over squashed skunks, etc. I assume that Tesla FSD would notice
| some of these obstacles, but it wouldn't be able to notice a
| deer on the edge of the road and identify it as slowdown-
| worthy... would it?
|
| Curious if any rural Tesla owners can chime in on this -- it's
| not exactly a documented feature.
| g_p wrote:
| Similarly curious - my understanding is that Tesla w/ FSD
| effectively drives as a relatively selfish and "reactive"
| driver, theoretically dealing with anything entering its
| driving path.
|
| I'd also be interested to know if the Tesla FSD can react to
| "foreseeable second order" issues that an experienced driver
| is expected to respond to. For example, a pedestrian crossing
| (giving priority to pedestrians) where visibility of the
| waiting pedestrian is obscured by a parked vehicle. A human
| driver can recognise they lack visibility of the footpath
| around the crossing (and recognise the crossing by road
| markings and street furniture), and therefore slow on
| approach, since there is a risk they may need to stop
| rapidly.
| cmsj wrote:
| that principle of "slow on approach, since there is a risk"
| is something I don't feel like I've seen in any of Tesla's
| videos.
|
| Even the ones where they are proudly showing a Tesla
| avoiding a collision with a person, the car seems to leave
| it to the very last second and then slams on the brakes,
| where my mind is already screaming "BRAKE BRAKE BRAKE" a
| couple of seconds after I would have started a
| precautionary slowing.
| lostlogin wrote:
| Your question is interesting, as weird things happen even in
| cities, and not infrequently.
|
| > I'm curious how Tesla FSD works with obstacles that aren't
| cars or people on roads.
|
| This video would appear to show it the Tesla plowing into a
| lit up, stationary car. It looks to be dark, but that's
| abysmal.
| cmsj wrote:
| You make a very good point. I've seen videos from Tesla's AI
| days where they show debug bounding boxes around identified
| objects, and the boxes always seem to disappear when objects
| are occluded. Perhaps that's just a visualisation choice, but
| I'm taking the precautionary approach of assuming it means that
| the car has no object permanence because it's not considering a
| wide enough time window.
| t0mas88 wrote:
| Slowly moving is much easier to a lot of systems than
| stationary. An easy way to distinguish a car from the guard
| rails or other fixed objects is to look at movement, most radar
| systems do this.
| g_p wrote:
| Very true, but I guess from a probabilities perspective,
| you're highly likely to encounter a stationary car in the
| driving lane (i.e. a badly parked car). I can't think of a
| time I've driven and not encountered this, and it's easy to
| react in advance before it was even a priority (see parked
| cars ahead, move out a lane, no inconvenience experienced...)
|
| I wonder how it would cope with other items that don't
| "belong" in the roadway sitting stationary - skips, bins,
| shipping containers, large piles of bricks or rubble etc.
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(page generated 2021-09-23 23:02 UTC)