[HN Gopher] Oliver Burkeman on the flaw with productivity geek t...
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       Oliver Burkeman on the flaw with productivity geek thinking
        
       Author : ubac
       Score  : 64 points
       Date   : 2021-09-23 16:25 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (thebrowser.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (thebrowser.com)
        
       | AnotherGoodName wrote:
       | >And actually, more than that, lots of what goes wrong is not
       | just that productivity geekery doesn't work, it's that it makes
       | things worse, right
       | 
       | A lot of good points here. I figured this out myself ages ago and
       | have done well to actively halt the 'only do things that are
       | maximally productive' behaviors that actually cripple any
       | productivity at all.
       | 
       | As one example amongst many: I wasn't taking the garbage out
       | until the mail arrived. Because that was optimal! Maximize
       | efficiency! Except it doesn't really help. Taking out the garbage
       | takes 20seconds. Going to the mailbox and bringing in mail? 20
       | seconds. Doing them together and juggling bins, mail and doors?
       | Over a minute. Not to mention the many minutes of distraction
       | from the mental weight of a chore needing to be done. It's only
       | theoretically optimal and the theorizing part itself is
       | crippling.
       | 
       | Likewise I'd let myself get crippled by 'there's a meeting in
       | 20minutes'. I'm sure it's a huge problem for others in the wfh
       | era. I wouldn't start washing the dishes because i might be in
       | the middle of it when i need meet with others and then with the
       | stop and start that'd be less than optimal. But doing the dishes,
       | even if slow turns out to be a 10 minute chore. I should have
       | just done it. But i procrastinated because theory crafting told
       | me that it'd be slightly less than optimal to do it now.
       | Meanwhile i just waste those 20minutes on Hackernews. Even being
       | less optimal i'm always better of doing it now.
       | 
       | It's definitely helpful to be aware of these behaviors. I think
       | the focus on maximizing productivity affects the geek types more
       | but it's absolutely crippling to let yourself go down these
       | paths. Don't do it and you'll be better off and more productive.
        
         | handrous wrote:
         | > Meanwhile i just waste those 20minutes on Hackernews.
         | 
         | Practically every "productivity hack" is less effective than
         | simply dropping all lowish-value Web browsing and doing almost
         | anything else instead.
        
           | ubac wrote:
           | One thing that amazes me is how many of even the most-
           | effective people I know seem to spend multiple hours a day
           | doing low-value web browsing. Is it actually impossible to
           | avoid that temptation? Or are there people who manage it but
           | they're just living in a different world than I am?
        
             | dageshi wrote:
             | I think it's a case of most people have a finite amount of
             | really productive time in them per day and once it's
             | exhausted trying to squeeze more out is counter productive.
             | 
             | What do you fill the rest of the time with?
             | 
             | If you accept you have a finite limit of really good
             | productive time per day in you, it becomes easy, focus on
             | supporting that and making sure you achieve what you can
             | during that productive time then slack off for the rest of
             | the day.
        
             | nicbou wrote:
             | Personally, I find it incredibly addictive. Despite trying
             | many things to keep it under control, I still struggle with
             | it.
             | 
             | The thing with mindless browsing is that it gives you an
             | instant trickle of dopamine. Any other activity requires
             | some ramp up time before it feels rewarding. It's a bit
             | like snacking vs. cooking a meal.
        
             | handrous wrote:
             | The Web has a strange way of feeling both important and
             | interesting while, on reflection, not really being either.
             | There's some kind of time-eating black magic at work--and
             | that's before something like TikTok or Facebook get
             | involved, where there's no mystery about why they have the
             | effect they do.
        
               | leobg wrote:
               | One of the most important ideas I've come across in the
               | last few days while doing low-value browsing on HN was an
               | insight shared by Rich Hickey: ,,A computer is the
               | absolute worst place to do thinking". I think it was in
               | his talk ,,Hammock driven development". I actually
               | installed a hammock in my office yesterday because of it.
               | It takes self-control to actually go over and use it. And
               | to leave my phone at the desk, too. But once I do, I
               | profit tremdenously. I get ideas. I see the big picture.
               | I get energized again.
        
               | nicbou wrote:
               | I develop many ideas on my motorcycle, or on my bicycle,
               | or while having breakfast. Once I have a computer, my
               | brain is rarely idle enough for that.
        
               | chasd00 wrote:
               | I walk to a family dollar that's 30 min round trip from
               | my house. Many problems have been solved by a slim Jim
               | and diet Dr Pepper.
        
               | ubac wrote:
               | can't remember where it is but there's an amazing pg
               | quote somewhere wondering whether the net effect of hn
               | has been positive or negative on account of the time-
               | eating aspect. (I think his conclusion was "almost
               | certainly very positive, but I have moments of
               | doubt....")
        
               | r_a_d wrote:
               | There's a bit in 'What I worked on' where he says
               | 
               | "Hacker News is definitely useful. I've learned a lot
               | from things I've read on HN. I've written several essays
               | that began as comments there. So I wouldn't want the site
               | to go away. But I would like to be sure it's not a net
               | drag on productivity. What a disaster that would be, to
               | attract thousands of smart people to a site that caused
               | them to waste lots of time. I wish I could be 100% sure
               | that's not a description of HN."
        
               | majormajor wrote:
               | Is it the social aspect? Far more people are able to hang
               | out and talk with friends for hours on end than are able
               | to read a book for hours on end, say.
               | 
               | Throw in the ease of changing direction (jumping from one
               | article from another in a wiki rabbit hole, say), too.
        
               | SuoDuanDao wrote:
               | I've heard that if one sets the display screen (whatever
               | it is) to be black-and-white, the web gets much less
               | compelling. I'm sure there are more factors than that,
               | but it's funny how much bright colours in feedback play a
               | role.
        
             | AQuantized wrote:
             | I've totally cut out Reddit and other sites that have
             | gotten increasingly low quality over the years. That said I
             | do still regularly 'waste' time on HN, although I think it
             | offers enough utility that it's not a bad place to relax
             | for a while now and then.
             | 
             | One thing I've realized over the past few years is that
             | it's almost impossible to get away from 'wasting' a fair
             | few hours each day. It's a good idea to let yourself
             | disengage and move into a more diffuse mode of thought
             | instead of trying to hold your nose to the grindstone
             | unnecessarily. It may be that the effective people you know
             | are that way because of their willingness to take a
             | extended breaks rather than in spite of.
        
               | ironmike2111 wrote:
               | Any tips for high utility websites apart from this one?
               | 
               | Would really appreciate this thanks
        
             | kmtrowbr wrote:
             | One thing I've noticed is that, there is some value in
             | stepping away from your work, and then coming back.
             | Something like a "palate cleanser" for your mind. I agree
             | that mindless web browsing is mostly a waste of time, but
             | there might be some value in loading a little static into
             | your mind, then coming back at your problem in a new frame
             | of mind. So I try to not beat myself up too much. I have
             | blockers and other things which I do use sometimes. I like
             | https://selfcontrolapp.com/ the best for the Mac.
        
               | leobg wrote:
               | The funny thing is that, as soon as we geeks realize that
               | this is a problem, we immediately want to optimize away
               | the problem by building another app. Hehe.
        
               | HPsquared wrote:
               | If all you have is a computer, everything looks like a
               | computation.
        
           | 908B64B197 wrote:
           | HN still has a better signal to noise than 90% of the web.
        
       | SCUSKU wrote:
       | Re: having multiple projects in the air
       | 
       | > the reality of it is that you don't make much progress on any
       | of them because as soon as one of them gets difficult, you just
       | bounce over to another one that feels easier.
       | 
       | This really rang true to me. I have so many projects, and once I
       | hit a significant technical wall, I usually start looking at
       | other projects where I can get things done more easily and get
       | gratification quicker. It really sucks, and Burkeman's
       | recommendation of focusing on only one project at a time until
       | you're done makes a lot of sense.
       | 
       | That said, it also requires a lot of determination to see
       | something through. I think for me that is one of the most
       | difficult things: having sufficient motivation to accomplish a
       | task despite the difficulties. There has to be a great reward on
       | the other side in order to push through the tough stuff. Only a
       | few times in my life have I felt that sort of motivation for
       | projects, and I'm not really sure what the throughline was
       | between them, but I hope to capture that energy again someday.
        
         | ubac wrote:
         | Really agree with this. The whole "trying to do 8 projects at
         | once is actually a coping mechanism because it lets you lie to
         | yourself more easily about how little you can really finish"
         | was a light bulb moment for me
        
         | hardwaregeek wrote:
         | This is especially true with books for me. I've discovered that
         | I need to be exceedingly single threaded for books. Reading
         | multiple books just leads to finishing none of them or dropping
         | all of them except for one
        
           | leobg wrote:
           | I once read a book halfway through only to realize that I had
           | already read it years before. And when I happen to stumble
           | upon my notes from some book that I've read, I'm sometimes
           | surprised and have zero recollection of ever having read it.
           | I'm probably somewhere around the thousand to two thousand
           | book mark. Sometimes I think that, even if I don't remember
           | the contents consciously, the books might still be
           | influencing my thinking and my judgement in some positive
           | way. But sometimes I think that, perhaps, it's really just a
           | chasing after wind. That ,,next book" is always as shiny as
           | those new headphones from Amazon, or that new productivity
           | tool. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-23 23:01 UTC)