[HN Gopher] Definitive Account of the CIA/Media/BigTech Fraud
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       Definitive Account of the CIA/Media/BigTech Fraud
        
       Author : noxer
       Score  : 76 points
       Date   : 2021-09-22 14:46 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (greenwald.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (greenwald.substack.com)
        
       | 0xy wrote:
       | This is why social media censorship is so dangerous, even despite
       | the blatant partisanship from a DNC operative working as a senior
       | manager at Facebook.
       | 
       | Stories that damage the established world order are suppressed
       | and "fact-checked" (by biased partisan organizations, or worse,
       | literal operatives working at these companies).
       | 
       | These organizations are looking a lot more like political
       | machines as every day passes. They have their fingers on the
       | scales in a multitude of respects. Google by boosting and
       | deboosting certain political content, Facebook through algorithm
       | manipulation, shadowbans and banning and Twitter through hashtag
       | suppression, "trending" manipulation, "fact checks" and banning.
        
       | skinkestek wrote:
       | Hidden for some reason deapite 10 submissions/upvotes in 51
       | minutes.
       | 
       | I've sent a mail and asked mods nicely if they can override the
       | flags on this one.
        
         | noxer wrote:
         | NH doesn't like Greenwald. I only posted this because HN also
         | does not like BigTech so it at least had a chance to get seen
         | by some people who are interested.
        
           | b9be520d93286 wrote:
           | The cognitive dissonance is staggering
        
           | dang wrote:
           | The community is divided on that, as it is on every other
           | divisive topic. You can't expect HN to differ significantly
           | from the population at large--the community is too large for
           | that.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Users flagged it. I've turned that off now. If there's
         | significant new information here, we can roll back the clock on
         | the submission--we'd need a more neutral title and I don't see
         | any easy candidate. Both the main title and the subtitle are
         | certain to produce an instant flamewar. What is the significant
         | new information?
        
           | h2odragon wrote:
           | I think the significant new information is the politico
           | reporter confirming things that have been said in other
           | sources, which other sources had been widely dismissed.
        
           | skinkestek wrote:
           | > What is the significant new information?
           | 
           | For me who doesn't follow it to closely the fact that
           | significant more proofs - including from officials in Sweden
           | - have been coming out since the case was dismissed as cased
           | closed by fact checkers was the big one.
           | 
           | For someone who follows it closely this is yesteryears news.
           | 
           | For me this was the first time I read that. (edit: it ->
           | that)
           | 
           | Edit: as for the title if we don't have to honor the original
           | in this case, could something like "Summary of developments
           | in the Hunter Biden case previously dismissed as false news"
           | work?
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | It's a bit buried but there's significant information about
           | Greenwald's own interaction with _The Intercept_ re: the
           | Biden laptop story. Given Greenwald 's history with that
           | outlet, this seems worthwhile enough.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | I doubt that that's significant or interesting enough to
             | support a substantial discussion. I haven't read the
             | article yet though.
        
               | skinkestek wrote:
               | If everyone knows it and it has been discussed
               | extensively by everyone except me I'm just slow.
               | 
               | If this is news to everyone like me that CIA and Facebook
               | and the fact checkers got caught lying then it is a big
               | story and it probably should affect how fact checkers
               | work and how much we trust them.
        
           | SiVal wrote:
           | What Big Tech really does should be a principal focus of a
           | tech discussion forum. What they really do is to use their
           | unprecedented power to hide and censor information and
           | silence people in order to influence opinion on a mass scale.
           | They admit they do it every time they explain why they do it.
           | But they hide the specifics of what they are trying to get
           | people to think and how they do it. They hide the internal
           | discussions of their agenda and the methods they employ to
           | hide and censor and silence.
           | 
           | What they intend to get people to think, the means they
           | employ, and the extent to which they do it are fundamental to
           | understanding tech in society. How ironic is it then that
           | every time a report of details and extent of their censorship
           | and hiding is submitted to HN, the same people doing the
           | censoring are allowed to flag the article out of existence on
           | HN, censoring and hiding information about their censoring
           | and hiding of information?
           | 
           | And if the argument is that reports of what Big Tech is doing
           | to bias discussion will "ignite flamewars", well they know
           | that means they can further bias discussion by threatening to
           | rage until potential critics submit and self-censor.
           | Certainly trillion-dollar tech corporations working to
           | control society don't impose upon themselves any need to
           | provide "new information". On the contrary, they repeat
           | claims over and over that would not stand up to evidence,
           | confident that any reports of the evidence can be severely
           | limited and quickly swept from view.
           | 
           | Big Tech has vast power to limit what people find out about
           | in almost every venue. I would love for HN to be an exception
           | where the details that they try to hide are always in full
           | view.
        
       | Tehchops wrote:
       | I see GG is really enjoying being free of anything resembling
       | editorial control/restraint.
       | 
       | > Definitive account
       | 
       | Yea..... This was flagged for a reason
        
         | dang wrote:
         | " _Please don 't post shallow dismissals, especially of other
         | people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something._"
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
       | phonon wrote:
       | I think he's missing the point. The issue was never if _some_ of
       | the info on the laptop was correct /validated. It was:
       | 
       | 1. Was the laptop/information stolen, and then "laundered"
       | through the repair shop.
       | 
       | 2. Was true information mixed with false--a classic
       | misinformation technique.
       | 
       | 3. If either 1. or 2. was true, was it through the intelligence
       | efforts of Russia or the like.
        
         | mint2 wrote:
         | This is what makes me tear my hair out. why is it that despite
         | serious flaws that are nearly impossible to attribute to
         | ignorance, do people trust and treat his opinions as quality
         | reasoning?
         | 
         | My only answer is they seek confirmation bias.
        
         | nightowl_games wrote:
         | 1. Who cares where it came from? What matters is whether it is
         | true or not.
         | 
         | 2. This is the first time I've heard anyone suggest this and I
         | followed this story form the start. Can you cite your sources
         | for where this topic was consideres "the issue"? And besides,
         | if some of it is misinformation, why is the obviously not
         | misinformation stuff still censored? All the pro-censorship
         | people I read wrote the whole thing off as Russian
         | disinformation. It was clearly to influence the election
         | because so many prioritized "Trump Losing" above the truth.
         | Something I can't get on board with. I thought Trump was
         | terrible, but censorship like that was obviously gross. It was
         | some ends justify the means type stuff, and it really showed
         | the CIA/Media links, which is what Greenwald specialises in.
         | 
         | The issue was always about censorship and bias in the media.
         | That's what Greenwald talks about a lot. It's trivially
         | verifiable to confirm Greenwald's suggestions of DNC bias in
         | these institutions. Seems as though you have something against
         | this concept or against Greenwald? This seems common lately, is
         | it because he attacks DNC institutions? For me, I just value
         | truth above politics. I value Greenwald's reporting because I
         | trust him.
        
           | tdfx wrote:
           | I thought it was astounding that the media wrote this off so
           | quickly and thoroughly. I don't think I've ever seen anything
           | like it. As soon as it might be "Russian disinformation",
           | everyone except the craziest far right people immediately
           | stopped wondering about the meaning of "10 points for the big
           | guy". It was right on the cusp of providing some conclusive
           | evidence that Hunter Biden's international antics were part
           | of a family scheme of corruption as opposed to just fishing
           | his last name around for perks. But because the story was
           | essentially buried, it seems we'll never know.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | chuckee wrote:
         | > 1. Was the laptop/information stolen, and then "laundered"
         | through the repair shop.
         | 
         | The problem is that this standard is not consistently applied.
         | If the US intelligence apparatus launders some information
         | through "anonymous officials", they are taken at their word and
         | their statement is parroted. Only when the Bad Guys reveal some
         | bit of information do we become more concerned with where the
         | information came from, than whether it's true.
        
         | stickyricky wrote:
         | With respect, I think you're missing the point.
         | 
         | What is the author's main critique? The author is stating that
         | the CIA, the "liberal-wing of the corporate media", and Big
         | Tech companies conspired to suppress and censor information
         | that was politically damaging to their preferred candidate.
         | Even if that information was verified to be correct.
         | 
         | According to the article, the authenticity of the laptop's
         | information was verifiable.
         | 
         | > "From the start, the evidence of authenticity was
         | overwhelming. The Post published obviously genuine photos of
         | Hunter that were taken from the laptop. Investigations from
         | media outlets found people who had received the emails in real-
         | time and they compared the emails in their possession to the
         | ones in the Post's archive, and they matched word-for-word."
         | 
         | The counter point would be that the "intelligence community"
         | declared it a Russian disinformation campaign. But, as the
         | author notes, they did so without evidence.
         | 
         | > "in their words -- "we do not know if the emails are genuine
         | or not," and also admitted that "we do not have evidence of
         | Russian involvement.""
         | 
         | You don't have to take the author's word for it. You can read
         | the statement issued by former intelligence officials which is
         | linked in the source.
         | 
         | > "We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails,
         | provided to the New York Post by President Trump's personal
         | attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not
         | have evidence of Russian involvement -- just that our
         | experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian
         | government played a significant role in this case."
         | 
         | The assertion or "concern" that the laptop is Russian
         | disinformation has never had any evidence to support it. And
         | yet that was sufficient to completely censor the story on
         | facebook and twitter.
         | 
         | So with all the said, let's recap your points.
         | 
         | > 1. Was the laptop/information stolen, and then "laundered"
         | through the repair shop.
         | 
         | There is no evidence for this.
         | 
         | > 2. Was true information mixed with false--a classic
         | misinformation technique.
         | 
         | There is no evidence for this.
         | 
         | > 3. If either 1. or 2. was true, was it through the
         | intelligence efforts of Russia or the like.
         | 
         | Again, no evidence. So why was it censored?
        
         | ZeroGravitas wrote:
         | But surely he knows all that, so why is he pretending not to?
         | 
         | I've never really followed his work, but has he always been
         | like this or was this a recent development?
        
         | yostrovs wrote:
         | I would argue you're missing the point since he's arguing that
         | the media never tried to confirm the story. It took the
         | narrative that this was "Russian disinformation" and made it
         | seem that that's probably what it is, without actually doing
         | the work that is expected of journalists. Obviously had this
         | laptop belonged to Don Jr., they would have certainly done the
         | due diligence to dig through it and confirm its contents. The
         | issue is Joe Biden is part of the "system" and is therefore
         | protected, unlike those that don't come from it.
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | Recall that some of the people who got copies of this laptop's
       | drive image felt they had a legal obligation to report the
       | contents to (iirc) Delaware State Police almost immediately
       | thereafter.
       | 
       | Remember: A "footjob" is different than a pedicure.
        
       | cnst wrote:
       | What I don't understand is how all of that MSM and Big Tech aid
       | is not considered to be an in-kind donation to the campaign of a
       | single party.
       | 
       | Don't we have campaign finance laws?
        
         | tomohawk wrote:
         | We do, but Biden liquidated everyone from the campaign finance
         | committee in an unprecedented move, and guess which party
         | controls the white house and congress?
        
           | cnst wrote:
           | But this all started over a year ago when he wasn't supposed
           | to have been in power yet, why was nothing done in that time?
           | Why always blame a specific party if neither one does any
           | action to effect change?
        
       | cosmophany wrote:
       | Not obvious from the title, but in this article Greenwald takes
       | the opportunity to air some of the dirty laundry about why he
       | left the Intercept. Worth reading.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-22 23:02 UTC)