[HN Gopher] Django 4.0 alpha 1 released
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Django 4.0 alpha 1 released
Author : sandes
Score : 60 points
Date : 2021-09-21 19:56 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.djangoproject.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.djangoproject.com)
| Alir3z4 wrote:
| Kudos to everyone that contributed to Django in any way.
|
| Been using it for more than a decade and never it has
| disappointed me.
|
| Every release comes with excellent features and polishes.
|
| Everything in Django is well mature, properly maintained and
| built for maximum productivity and maintainability.
|
| One of the best thing about Django is, it's never gets involved
| with bubble type technologies until proven reliable and useful.
|
| Either be it async, websocket, NoSQL, fancy SPA, AMP, or any
| specific frontend framework integration.
| bredren wrote:
| I like Django a lot and use it for my projects and with
| clients.
|
| > One of the best thing about Django is, it's never gets
| involved with bubble type technologies until proven reliable
| and useful.
|
| Django has also chosen not to get involved in tech that *has*
| been proven reliable and useful.
|
| For example moving to incorporate a formal API library like DRF
| years ago. It also has not indicated plans to adopt a type-
| based API library like FastAPI or Ninja.
|
| Often this idea of supporting REST API building as a battery of
| Django is used as a cudgel against modern front-end frameworks.
| The comments are generally aimed at React, but broadly anything
| in Javascript that requires an API.
|
| However, doing so has also been expense of making Django a
| first choice for microservices and ignores the important role
| of serving mobile app clients.
|
| Django has also been slow to discard technology that is no
| longer reliable or useful. For example, jQuery is still endemic
| in the ecosystem.
|
| I'm all for stability--I've invested a lot of time in Django
| and it is very productive. However, the biggest threat to this
| framework is the effusive self-praise for this attribute.
|
| People would do well to remember that Django displaced Drupal
| because Django was iterating rapidly even though it made
| upgrades very challenging at times.
|
| FastAPI and now SQLModel are showing how valuable adoption and
| use of Python's type system can be.
|
| There is no reason why a new Python-based framework (apart from
| Flask) could not unseat Django as the framework of choice. It
| wouldn't even endanger Django. People still build using Drupal
| today.
| soperj wrote:
| why would you want a full framework with a admin back end for
| a microservice?
| Daishiman wrote:
| So much of this. I have seen so many developers switching
| between frameworks every two or three years, wasting away
| substantial accumulated knowledge and bags of tricks, the kind
| that allow you to make a living as a consultant because you can
| crank out CRUDs and REST endpoints like it's nobody's business.
|
| Some parts of the framework feel a little long in the tooth.
| The admin could use a rewrite with CBVs; the forms API just
| doesn't look so good compared to serialization abstractions in
| Rest frameworks nowadays.
|
| Still, it is a weapon, combined with Postgres, container-based
| deployments and a half dozen Django apps, there's few
| frameworks that come even close in terms of productivity and
| polish.
| Alir3z4 wrote:
| Exactly.
|
| I used pretty much many framework before settling on Django
| and polishing my knowledge and skills on it.
|
| Some places of Django could annoy me a bit, for instance
| Admin customization, but I got to conclusion that it's
| impossible to make Django customizable to every needs. The
| best would be create an admin dashboard for your own stuff.
| Charts, reporting, backoffice type are. Although it's
| possible to do so with current admin, but it's get annoying
| and after a while I see it be much better served if my
| requirements get created separately without poking around the
| admin so much. I usually create a separate app then include
| all the business requirements that don't fit in admin.
|
| Probably admin could expose a REST API? meh!
|
| Been a very long time that haven't worked with Forms, but
| compared with what comes out from DRF serializer etc, indeed
| would need some love. However, it's been years since majority
| of apps are built by frontend frameworks and using Django via
| DRF.
|
| The integration that comes with PostgreSQL and everything
| around Django ecosystem is mad productive.
|
| It takes a very short time to prototype and containerize the
| whole thing and have it on production.
|
| Fortunately or unfortunately, since I got comfortable with
| Django, I compare everything with it and it's really really
| really hard to swap it with something else.
| slownews45 wrote:
| It's a nice combo of pretty stable, very productive, good
| technology. The postgresql integration is wonderful, so I
| like the database choice and they've had good support for
| postgresql for a while (a lot of other frameworks really were
| MySQL focused). Mix in container based deploys - great!
| satvikpendem wrote:
| Given new entrants into the backend space, like Supabase (for a
| Firebase-like open source alternative), Hasura (open source
| GraphQL on Postgres), etc, how viable is Django and similar
| technologies like Rails these days? It seems like the former are
| PaaS which you can simply drop into your app but the latter are
| more so full on backends that let you control everything.
| adamrezich wrote:
| it's been awhile so the details are fuzzy but the Django shop I
| worked at had a repository of their like master app template,
| customized to rapidly prototype the kinds of apps the company
| built. it was pretty quick to get going on a new project but it
| was a bit of a kitchen-sink approach that pulled in quite a bit
| of cruft you might not need, but it was alright for our
| purposes. I assume other places do something similar.
| Alir3z4 wrote:
| I do a template type of project structure and the rest are
| shared libs or git modules.
|
| It's pretty fast to prototype and then cut stuff you don't
| need.
| Nicksil wrote:
| >Given new entrants into the backend space, like Supabase (for
| a Firebase-like open source alternative), Hasura (open source
| GraphQL on Postgres), etc, how viable is Django and similar
| technologies like Rails these days? It seems like the former
| are PaaS which you can simply drop into your app but the latter
| are more so full on backends that let you control everything.
|
| How viable? More viable than the newer systems you mentioned,
| clearly.
| throwthere wrote:
| Backends aren't just npm packages you throw away with each new
| project or iteration. Rails has an amazing ecosystem around it
| and tons of competent developers that can write maintainable
| code and others that can maintain it. Same with Django. You
| might be surprised that PHP is still extremely popular.
| Daishiman wrote:
| The vast majority of those frameworks will not make it past two
| or three years until maintainers give up or the usebase
| switches to the next shiny thing.
|
| Rails and Django are the pieces of web tech most likely to stay
| in the game.
| nerdbaggy wrote:
| I run Hasura and Django. Django really excels at migrations and
| Django is nice to have a place to write admin views. For
| example a way to generate a report and manipulate the data in a
| way that is easy to use. No way to do that in Hasura.
| slownews45 wrote:
| At least initially a lot of the GraphQL implementations
| resulted in slower apps, way more time to get going etc. This
| may have been because they seemed to tilt towards NoSQL
| backends, so that may be a big help if that is changing. I
| always did use views in PostgreSQL. Not graphQL, but you can
| simplify your request cycle using that if needed.
| zitterbewegung wrote:
| I don't get why there is so much negativity on Django when
| Instagram and other large websites still use it.
|
| I used it a few years ago for a startup and I liked it. It also
| has a user management system built in also .
| bredren wrote:
| Instagram started with Django but today it "uses django" only
| with the air quotes. Listen to the interview with Carl Meyer
| https://djangochat.com/episodes/django-instagram-carl-meyer
| jgb1984 wrote:
| Where do you see negativity? I've been using it professionally
| for over a decade, and can highly recommend it. Very mature,
| polished, fully featured, reasonably performant, well
| documented and a pleasure to use. A real productivity boost.
| It's the most widely used web application framework in the
| python world, which happens to be my preferred programming
| language.
| lucian1900 wrote:
| The ORM is the only weak point, the rest is widely considered
| stable and of quality.
| amanzi wrote:
| What's weak about the ORM? I've been working with Django for
| the last year or so and find the ORM great, but I don't have
| much experiences with other ORMs to compare to.
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