[HN Gopher] Dot Browser - privacy-conscious web browser
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       Dot Browser - privacy-conscious web browser
        
       Author : graderjs
       Score  : 103 points
       Date   : 2021-09-19 14:32 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | jeffalo wrote:
       | I remember hearing about this a while ago, but back then it was
       | based on Electron for some reason.
       | 
       | Looks like it has been completely rewritten since then?
       | 
       | Edit: https://medium.com/dot-blog/saying-goodbye-to-the-
       | electron-v...
        
         | enderdev wrote:
         | Yes, it used to be based on Electron. Although the date on the
         | blog posts is off because we migrated our old blog posts to
         | Medium back in June.
        
       | yoavm wrote:
       | As a Firefox user I'll never really consider a Chromium-based
       | browser, but this is interesting!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | tendencydriven wrote:
         | Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Dot Gecko/Firefox based, not
         | Chromium based?
        
           | enderdev wrote:
           | Yes, it's based on Firefox.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | thunderbong wrote:
       | I especially like the fact that it is based on Firefox.
        
         | janandonly wrote:
         | Which makes me wonder... how is it any different?
         | 
         | Firefox itself already has some features to protect your
         | privacy. Why go through the trouble of creating a whole new
         | browser where a combination of tweaks in settings and maybe a
         | plugin for FF would yield similar results?
        
           | WolfeReader wrote:
           | A great many users won't install plug-ins or alter settings.
           | They deserve privacy too. (This is why Brave is proving
           | popular, when FireFox + uBlock Origin has offered the same
           | benefits for longer.)
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | Defaults matter. Like, a lot.
        
             | KronisLV wrote:
             | And for many people, Firefox (or Chrome, or Edge) will be
             | the default browser.
             | 
             | Seeking out a different browser to use takes similar, if
             | not greater effort than just installing uBlock Origin (or a
             | similar extension, or a few) and possibly altering some
             | browser settings.
             | 
             | Plus, there's the issue of trust - how many people can
             | vouch for a particular browser, or an extension? If a
             | malicious piece of code would get into a niche browser or
             | extension, how long would it take for someone to notice and
             | bring that to the attention of the wider community? Would
             | there even be such a community? Or maybe if they'd sell out
             | and the product would change ownership?
             | 
             | The more eyes there are looking at code and how it runs,
             | the safer it is, or at least i'd argue so. Therefore,
             | sticking with the popular options is probably better, in
             | general. In this case, that would probably (hopefully) be
             | Firefox with some addons.
        
         | CodeGlitch wrote:
         | One of the biggest issues with a web browser is how to keep it
         | updated with security updates. It's not mentioned how they are
         | planning to accomplish this?
         | 
         | Also how are they performing ad blocking? Are they just
         | shipping it with u-block origin or their own technology?
         | 
         | Not to put anyone down, but I don't think people realise how
         | hard it is to deliver a secure and working web browser. They
         | are basically OS scale.
        
           | woko wrote:
           | Moreover, I don't understand how having a built-in adblocker
           | is seen as a selling point. Wouldn't it be more powerful to
           | rely on a third-party add-on like uBlock Origin?
        
             | admax88qqq wrote:
             | At some point it's nice to stop tracking which browser
             | addon has not yet sold out to sketchy third party and just
             | let the browser do it.
             | 
             | Only one "purchasing" decision to make at that point.
        
               | kaladin-jasnah wrote:
               | I know I can consistently rely on uBlock Origin, and they
               | have established a pretty good reputation. Plus I really
               | like the "block element" feature, an opinion I've seen
               | mentioned here before.
        
       | iimblack wrote:
       | Is there anywhere that info about the adblocking and email
       | masking has been published? The idea of this browser looks
       | amazing. I hope it has good support for adding vim style keyboard
       | shortcuts via extension or otherwise.
        
       | paulryanrogers wrote:
       | Looks like LibreWolf with email masking.
        
       | AlexAndScripts wrote:
       | I just checked out their Discord, they're panicking because the
       | last published build is super old and looks bad. Probably best to
       | wait a bit before trying it out.
        
         | encryptluks2 wrote:
         | Open source projects using Discord for their community is sort
         | of a red flag in itself.
        
           | enderdev wrote:
           | We also have a Matrix room and a telegram room.
           | https://matrix.to/#/#dothq:matrix.org https://t.me/dothq
        
             | unicornporn wrote:
             | > We also have a Matrix room
             | 
             | Thank you!
        
             | encryptluks2 wrote:
             | My apologies... as long as you have Matrix or some open
             | source standard and a bridge to IRC or whatever, then it
             | doesn't really matter that much to me. However, I would
             | like to see true believers of "open" promote open standards
             | as much as possible.
        
           | alin23 wrote:
           | I love using Discord for my open source app [0] because
           | instant messaging and low entrance friction makes it easy for
           | me to find out what's wrong with the app when an user comes
           | with a problem. Previously I only did email when users had a
           | problem and it took ages to fix issues that I could not
           | reproduce.
           | 
           | Why is Discord a red flag in your opinion?
           | 
           | It is indeed not very searchable, but I think there's always
           | Github and the official website for more persistent
           | information.
           | 
           | [0] https://lunar.fyi
        
             | encryptluks2 wrote:
             | My major qualm with with Discord is the lack of multiple
             | identities, and the anti-spam techniques being used by many
             | "servers" that essentially require you share your profile
             | and channel data. Also, if you add a phone number (some
             | servers require this) then Discord won't let you remove it.
             | I can only imagine the amount of data collection and
             | telemetry they are doing as well.
        
       | jefftk wrote:
       | Most recent nightly build is from 2021-07-24: is this an active
       | project?
        
       | jszymborski wrote:
       | Holy cow, another Gecko browser!? I thought I'd never see the
       | day. I commend the authors for that if nothing else.
        
       | rckt wrote:
       | It's not clear how it is different from Firefox. What features
       | does it have that Firefox doesn't?
        
         | paulryanrogers wrote:
         | Looks like built in ad blocker, email masking, and no telemetry
        
       | yewenjie wrote:
       | I am super amazed to see a Gecko based browser. People always
       | told me that Mozilla makes it virtually impossible to use the
       | Gecko engine in other browsers.
       | 
       | Does it support extensions?
       | 
       | Also, what does this mean?                 > Protect your mailbox
       | > We will offer to mask your email address when you sign up for
       | sites or services.
        
         | LukeShu wrote:
         | Historically, it was relatively easy to use Gecko to build
         | other apps including other browsers; what has hard was
         | embedding it inside of something else as just one component
         | among many (i.e. you had to build the whole app using XUL).
         | However, recent-ish (~2015?) changes in Gecko made this harder
         | to do, so many apps that used to do this have switched to the
         | Goanna/UXP fork of Gecko that retains that ease.
        
           | paulryanrogers wrote:
           | XUL Runner was a relatively easy way to build apps, or at
           | least their UIs, from markup. It's interesting that the
           | approach has lived on, albiet through other implementations
           | like Electron.
        
         | schleck8 wrote:
         | Maybe a proxy service a la Firefox Relay
        
         | Santosh83 wrote:
         | AFAIK no one claimed it was "virtually impossible". Just more
         | cumbersome than Chromium since it wasn't designed with
         | embedding in mind from get go.
        
       | IceWreck wrote:
       | I though all browsers and webviews are based on blink/chromium
       | because that engine is embed-able, unlike Gecko.
       | 
       | This guy made a brwoser based on Gecko tho, props to him.
        
         | fiddlerwoaroof wrote:
         | I vaguely remember that Gecko-based browsers used to be more
         | common.
        
           | pantulis wrote:
           | This brings memories of Camino in the Mac space and K-Meleon
           | in Windows.
        
       | enono wrote:
       | Love to see this. Just curious why I would use something like
       | this over brave? I don't pay too much attention to my browser
       | honestly. I am ready to be convinced to switch though :-)
        
         | CodeGlitch wrote:
         | I occasionally read the Brave Blog:
         | 
         | https://brave.com/blog/
         | 
         | The technical requirements and research that needs to go into a
         | web browser to ensure it's secure & private makes me skeptical
         | that Dot Browser or any open source browser is going to be able
         | to achieve those things without serious financial backing.
         | 
         | Happy to be proven wrong though
        
         | AlexAndScripts wrote:
         | It doesn't have the arguably sketchy crypto, it doesn't inject
         | affiliate links into URLs, it doesn't use an engine built by
         | Google, and it supports the open Web.
         | 
         | The reason it supports the open Web is that Brave uses the
         | Chromium engine used in Chrome, Edge, Opera, and basically
         | everything but Firefox.
         | 
         | Firefox doesn't, and is the only thing stopping Google being
         | the sole arbitrator of Web standards (and they do not have your
         | best interests at heart.) Google is already abusing their near-
         | monopoly; keeping Firefox market share high is helping stop it,
         | though.
         | 
         | This browser is Firefox based, so it has all of those
         | advantages.
        
           | thegabez wrote:
           | The crypto token seems like a way for someone who knows
           | nothing about crypto to get dip their toes, with zero risk.
        
           | jefftk wrote:
           | _> the only thing stopping Google being the sole arbitrator
           | of Web standards_
           | 
           | In addition to Mozilla, Apple (Safari) and Microsoft (Edge)
           | also have significant participation in web standards. I'm
           | really glad Firefox exists, and they definitely punch above
           | their weight in the standardization process, but Microsoft
           | and Apple are also serious participants.
           | 
           | (Disclosure: I work at Google, speaking only for myself)
        
             | trulyme wrote:
             | Google, Apple and MS are huge businesses who only care
             | about their respective browsers as something that will help
             | them reach some pretty unrelated goals. Mozilla's business,
             | however, is closely related to the browser itself, which
             | makes their incentives.. less misaligned. :) While they
             | have made some questionable moves in the past, I still
             | trust them a whole lot more than any of the bigtech.
        
           | ehg45h5h56 wrote:
           | If there is not an extreme pivot in Firefox's adoption in the
           | next 5 years, I believe it will be a dead browser. One thing
           | I have noticed is that developers have slowly been forgetting
           | or not motivated to work on ensuring Firefox users have same
           | level features. For example, there are browser extensions for
           | chrome that do not exist on Firefox.
           | 
           | These can range from popular extensions to smaller, more
           | specific productivity extensions. As a specific example,
           | there is a Zendesk extension that can help load all links you
           | click load in a single instance rather than having multiple
           | tabs. It uses Zendesk's built in tabbing system for tickets
           | and is very helpful for workflow.
           | 
           | The problem is this is only a chrome extension, and no such
           | thing exists for Firefox. This is one example but there are
           | so many more, and more of those situations are happening over
           | time.
           | 
           | That is a worrying trend. It means that the chrome browser
           | has such a massive market share, that in a lot of cases
           | worrying about Firefox compatibility isn't even a productive
           | concern anymore. This will eventually end in life support
           | compatibility such as developers putting up splash pages or
           | in-page notifications for users to switch to a more
           | compatible browser. I have already seen extremely rare
           | instances of this, but not enough where I would consider it a
           | concern yet, just an asshole move.
        
             | enderdev wrote:
             | I totally get this. It's worrying what Mozilla are doing,
             | and since they're putting in little to no effort to get
             | Firefox back on track I decided I had to help out.
             | 
             | Google's massive market share is seriously worrying for
             | Mozilla and other browser vendors.
             | 
             | I switched to Firefox from Chrome over 4 years ago and I
             | was disappointed to find some of my favourite Chrome
             | extensions weren't available. I plan to add support for
             | those Chrome extensions in Dot Browser by implementing
             | those APIs and making them work in Gecko/Firefox
             | environment.
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | Really interested to see the mental gymnastics it takes to
           | argue that implementing new features for the Web Platform--in
           | open, freely-available standards that are negotiated with all
           | the major stakeholders, including Mozilla, who is allowed to
           | implement them whenever they feel like stopping chasing after
           | shiny baubles and get back to developing Web browsers--is
           | "abusing [Google's] near-monoply", versus Apple _not_
           | implementing standards to push developers off the Web and
           | into the App Store.
           | 
           | But sure, yeah, let's keep the Web Platform at early 2000s
           | standards. Let's make everyone download apps from a small set
           | of walled garden app stores. Let's force developers to submit
           | to those app store review processes and potentially have
           | their content blocked for whatever opaque whims the store has
           | today (ever changing, with little chance for appeal!). And
           | then they can just snoop on their users through the local,
           | natively installed app, that has all the permissions granted
           | under the sun because users don't read installation prompts.
           | That's so much better for privacy.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | bingusfan wrote:
       | I admire the work that has been put into this browser. Seems nice
       | so far and am looking forward to where it goes in the future.
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-19 23:01 UTC)