[HN Gopher] A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995
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       A History of Leather at Pride: 1965-1995
        
       Author : hprotagonist
       Score  : 23 points
       Date   : 2021-09-18 19:57 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (aphyr.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (aphyr.com)
        
       | Centmo wrote:
       | Came for the photos. Left disappointed.
        
       | LForLambda wrote:
       | Down
        
         | mrlonglong wrote:
         | No it is not, and if you are representative of the majority
         | then $deity help HN.
         | 
         | There was a clue in one of the posts.
        
       | kradeelav wrote:
       | I wish I had known earlier that Brenda Howard (Mother of Pride)
       | was leather-adjacent, if not outright identified as Leather
       | herself. Would've been many years of shame evaporated right there
       | had Leather history been more accessible, and on a lighter note,
       | it always amuses me when younger folks argue against "leather at
       | pride" not knowing her direct involvement.
       | 
       | This was a fantastic essay, and I'm glad it was written and
       | posted separately. Thank you. For others reading this comment,
       | links that may be of interest and further research:
       | 
       | - Leather Archives - (http://leatherarchives.org/) incredible
       | museum that collects the lived history of those who found
       | themselves in this subculture and identity.
       | 
       | - "Leather Resources" (http://kradeelav.com/leather-
       | resources.html) Showcasing some of the Leather-related links that
       | I've slowly collected over the years while trying to track down
       | and preserve even a little bit of history. Extremely fun rabbit
       | trails from here. :)
       | 
       | (I write this post as a bisexual woman in a long-term
       | relationship with another woman. Leather is the only LGBT+ label
       | I remotely felt at home in, for many private/personal reasons.)
        
       | aphyr wrote:
       | For cishet folks on HN: this writing isn't about or for you. I've
       | seen a lot of this community's homophobia, misogyny, transphobia,
       | and generally reactionary political drift over the last 12 years
       | --including replies to my technical writing. I know _exactly_ how
       | this conversation is going to go if it happens here. I 'm asking
       | y'all not to have it.
       | 
       | I'm returning a 403 on HN referrals to aphyr.com as a mild
       | discouragement. I hope you'll respect this.
        
         | seibelj wrote:
         | That's a very aggressive posture. I would say HN is one of the
         | best moderated places online where people of opposing beliefs
         | can debate in good faith. I think casting the entire community
         | as -phobic is very unfair.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | klyrs wrote:
           | Here's the thing though. When it's a predictable outcome that
           | somebody in the crowd will post x-phobic responses to a given
           | story, then it's completely unreasonable for an x-person to
           | expect a lack of x-phobia. If you were more concerned about
           | the frequency of x-phobia in this community, rather than
           | taking offense at people speaking about the negative
           | experiences at the hands of this community, perhaps the
           | community wouldn't have the reputation that it does.
           | 
           | Blocking on referers is a defensive move, not at all
           | aggressive.
        
         | hprotagonist wrote:
         | submitter, cishet dude, and long-time admirer of your work
         | here.
         | 
         | I posted the link because i was impressed with your usual style
         | and level of detail and thoughtful work.
         | 
         | it wasn't my intention to feed the trolls; perhaps i haven't
         | spent enough time on Svalbard? :)
        
         | camtarn wrote:
         | As a queer HN'er - thank you for writing and compiling this!
         | It's quite some amount of work. Like you say, it's so important
         | for a community to know its own history.
        
         | mkr-hn wrote:
         | HN is a bit better on transphobia than it was. I haven't seen
         | anyone misgender Chelsea Manning lately without being flagged
         | into oblivion, for example. Cause for optimism.
        
       | goatsecxkirk wrote:
       | I went to the pride parade in Seattle in ?2012? and was disgusted
       | by the public sexual acts that I saw. I don't know why some
       | people weren't arrested for indecent exposure or other sex
       | offenses.
       | 
       | Edit: why was this flagged? Public sexual displays are not
       | alright no matter the context
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | dang wrote:
       | All: This post is on topic because of the interesting historical
       | material. HN is for intellectual curiosity
       | (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
       | 
       | If it excites stronger emotions (or sensations) in you than
       | intellectual curiosity, please don't post to this thread. There
       | are 28 other things on the front page to read*, and we don't want
       | tedious flamewars here.
       | 
       | (* maybe avoid the covid leak debate thread too)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | goatsecxkirk wrote:
       | I went to the pride parade in Seattle in ?2012? and was disgusted
       | by the public sexual acts that I saw. I don't know why some
       | people weren't arrested for indecent exposure or other sex
       | offenses. Why was this comment flagged in the other thread?
       | Public sexual displays are not alright no matter the context
        
         | hprotagonist wrote:
         | you could actually read the essay, for a start:
         | 
         |  _We should remember that expressions of variant sexuality are
         | not only a form of individual expression, but also a public
         | good. Many asexual people and families enjoy seeing leather in
         | Pride. Leather contingents demystify the community, reduce
         | social stigma, create opportunities to meet and talk with
         | kinksters, and help people discover new desires. Public
         | floggings can balance misconceptions that impact is "just about
         | pain," and illustrate the possibility for emotional connection.
         | Public bondage can be an art installation. In my personal
         | experience marching and performing scenes in public, people on
         | the street are far more curious, supportive, and delighted to
         | see pups in hoods and men in rope than the present discourse
         | would have us believe.
         | 
         | Finally: as several of the accounts in this history
         | demonstrate, one's own feelings about sexual displays can
         | change dramatically over time. What was frightening or
         | disgusting one year can be freeing, erotic, or beautiful the
         | next. This points to the possibility of Pride as more than a
         | space where we impose the standard norms of an imagined unitary
         | public. As a polyvocal celebration, Pride offers us the chance
         | not only to express ourselves, but also to see others'
         | expressions of a broad range of queer identities. With a little
         | patience we can rejoice in others' kaleidoscopic queerness--and
         | sometimes, if we're lucky, discover new aspects of our selves._
         | 
         | The history of Pride is also extensively discussed and cited
         | heavily. Scolds of your tone are at least as old as pride, and
         | still about as tone-deaf as ever.
        
           | goatsecxkirk wrote:
           | I started reading it and then realized how long it was and
           | that I don't care enough about the subject to read all of
           | that. I'm going to go fist my girlfriend in public and it'll
           | be ok because I'm just expressing myself, right?
        
             | dang wrote:
             | We've banned this account for trolling. Please don't create
             | accounts to do that with.
        
       | mraudiobook_com wrote:
       | Walking around NYC most of the clothes the women wear would be
       | right at home on a pride float. But when men dress the way women
       | dress it feels wrong to most of us.
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | > Consent is key to healthy BDSM practice, but the public did not
       | consent to seeing these sexual displays (...). By wearing leather
       | harnesses and chaining each other up in broad daylight, kinksters
       | have unethically involved non-consenting bystanders in a BDSM
       | scene for their own (likely sexual) gratification.
       | 
       | Do young people have such a warped view of consent now that
       | _wearing a leather harness in public_ is considered  "unethically
       | involving non-consenting bystanders in a BDSM scene"?? Ahh, the
       | culture of "I am a greater victim than thou" hath no boundaries.
        
         | mycodesucks wrote:
         | "wearing leather harnesses and chaining each other up" is a bit
         | different than just wearing a leather harness in public. But
         | also how hard is it to just be civilized when you're in public?
         | I don't need you to wear a suit and tie, but at least have some
         | decency.
        
           | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
           | It's once a year. And the idea is to fight back against
           | stigmas that have made such behavior illegal, or grounds for
           | being fired, or having your kids taken away.
           | 
           | I don't know who needs to hear this, but having gay sex in
           | the privacy of your home while you're tied up in a leather
           | harness should not result in those consequences. Display of
           | similar behaviors at Pride are intended to tell the larger
           | world that they aren't going to stop being themselves. People
           | need to grow a thicker skin and get used to the idea, so that
           | Pride isn't necessary any longer.
        
           | jet_32951 wrote:
           | Boundaries that delineate these celebrations have been
           | explicit in SF at least since I started going in the early
           | 2000s. The intent is to create a safe space for participants.
           | Within that realm at those times the boundaries represent the
           | presence of that space and that "normal social conduct" is no
           | longer the norm.
        
           | ThePadawan wrote:
           | I personally find that the most uncivilized people always
           | come dressed in suit and tie.
        
             | mkr-hn wrote:
             | Like any other thing, it depends on why someone wears it. A
             | trans man wearing a traditional man's cut to celebrate
             | getting top surgery at pride is probably not what you had
             | in mind though.
        
         | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
         | It's especially bad in the BDSM scene. Grown adults who act
         | like the kid in school who would go around telling other kids
         | they weren't following the rules. They treat victimhood and
         | white knighting like a job.
        
         | delecti wrote:
         | There is a case to be made about some kinks; someone with a
         | humiliation kink (often exercised by being led around on a
         | leash) is getting close to the line (if not crossing it) of
         | non-consensually involving others in their scene.
         | 
         | Though I agree with you that just "wearing a leather harness"
         | is a pretty innocuous, and in general people don't require
         | consent for their wardrobes in public. And on top of that,
         | going to pride and then complaining about other attendees is at
         | best a bit silly and at worst completely missing the point.
        
         | markenqualitaet wrote:
         | I think consent here is trivial to understand when you talk
         | about a kink most everyone understands: naked skin.
         | 
         | Being naked isn't per se a sexual act, obviously. I don't need
         | anyone's consent exposing my body e.g. going swimming in a
         | lake.
         | 
         | On the other hand, someone getting off exposing theirselves to
         | strangers is involving unconsenting strangers sexually.
         | 
         | Wearing a harness or demonstrating the lifestyle perfomatively
         | does not include strangers _in a scene_.
         | 
         | Playing in public for e.g. public humiliation on the other
         | hand, is involving unconsenting strangers sexually.
         | 
         | It's really not that hard. These concern trolls have an agenda.
        
         | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2021-09-19 23:02 UTC)